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K. Funk
January 21, 2014, 08:14
I may have an opportunity to look at an M14 re-weld. I know in general that they can span the spectrum of quality. Anything in particular to look for??

krf

jdmcomp
January 21, 2014, 14:42
I may have an opportunity to look at an M14 re-weld. I know in general that they can span the spectrum of quality. Anything in particular to look for??

krf

I would think legality would be first on your mind. Since this was once a full auto re-welding could be an violation of the NFA.

GIshooter
January 21, 2014, 15:35
Jerry Kuhnhausen has a section on welded receivers in his Shop manual volumes 1 & 2 for M-1 and M-14. Very good pictures and write up. I highly recommend reading it before committing your face and dollars.

K. Funk
January 21, 2014, 15:43
It is still a full auto, it is a transferrable. My CL 3 guy has 2 coming in. I would feel better with a factory M1-A over a re-weld. A non-re-weld M-14 is a bit out of my reach at the moment.

krf

greenpeas
January 22, 2014, 10:43
If the receiver has been demilled in accordance with the ATF, it is no longer a gun - just some chunks of metal.

If the receiver is a FA reweld and you are trying to make it into a semi with out demilling the receiver first, I believe you are violating the law.

That's how I understand it anyway.

doneill
January 22, 2014, 23:19
for those of you that don't understand. I gather this is a transferable Class 3 that cantransfer legally to a civilian on a form 4. It will have been manufactured pre 86 and have been registered at that time.

K Funk. Look for the weld. If the weld is not apparent or only visible as a difference in the parkerizing you are golden. I understand that even with some small voids the weld can be very strong, but more consistency and fewer voids are better. In general, the outside is considered more important than the inside for appearance sake. I've seen some highly functional guns with the weld apparent with small ripples and tiny bubbles. There was still a strong weld.

The next thing is to look for alignment. The bolt bearing surfaces should be straight. The outside should be straight etc. Bring a metal 6" rule as a straightedge. The action should be smooth and consistent with no drags or catches.

Many of these are fine and I take your point about what you can afford.

Best of luck with it.

Dave O'Neill

D P Six
January 23, 2014, 10:13
Fulton Armory has some information and pictures on M1 're-welds'. http://www.fulton-armory.com/faqs/M1G-FAQs/Weld.htm . My first M1 turned out to be a re-weld but I didn't become aware of it until about 30 years of shooting later. Not all re-welds are created equal but a well done one.should be as serviceable as an original.

justashooter
January 23, 2014, 15:30
i shouldn't have to remind you that a BHN test with Teller, or better yet King Brinnel, will give you some insight into the as welded yield strength, and a wet flourescent MT or liquid penetrant test will reveal any incipient cracks. UT or Xray would be of almost no value due to geometry and scale.

IIRC these receivers are post heat treatment carburised 8620, so you are gonna have some surface fracturing related to the carburised layer, no matter how you weld them. the 8620, carburise specification was in deference to tensile strength in the locking area, and long wear life. a 125-150 BHN material would suffice for strength in the typical cut area. this means you can get by with a GTAW ER70 repair wire. the shape is too intricate to survive a good post heat treatment, so you are looking at local stress relief on the weld, at best, but with strength under-matching like this in the weld, SR should not be required.

the rear half of the receiver is just there to allow for bolt stroke and to locate the FCG and rear sight, and does not face significant stress, as the cut in every re-weld 14 i have seen is more than 1/2" to the rear of the locking lugs. this assuming that you are not shooting proof loads. excess rear bolt thrust could overcome the structural strength of the welds in a proof or grenade launching situation (blowing off the ass end of the receiver when grenade launching was a common problem with garands in early ww2, solved by liquid lead anneal to increase yield/tensile differential).

of real concern is the actual length of the welded receiver. if the jigging is not done carefully, the receiver can be shortened, negating the role of the lower bridge in retracting the firing pin and preventing its moving forward until the bolt is locked into full battery. get some reference dimensions off of a known good receiver in terms of interior machined reference points with a long dial caliper for inspection points.

perryturner
January 24, 2014, 14:17
FWIW, see 4th paragraph of http://www.subguns.com/boards/mgmsgarchive.cgi?read=800434

You may want to do an archives search there and see what else pops up.

Sampson1986
January 25, 2014, 11:46
Don't people read the ******* OP before they start spewing shit? Jeez. :mad:

If it were me and the price was right...I'd jump on it.

FWIW, David Spiwak has a BM59 for around $10.5k - I''ve been thinking pretty hard about it. Sure be nice if somebody saved me the time and $$$. :tongue:

Lee Carpentieri
January 26, 2014, 00:00
I have a transferable M14A1-E2, It's a Winchester receiver and a Neal Smith conversion done by his employee Bruce Sawell. What you have to really look at is where the Military cut the receiver.. To be safe the cut should be at where the bolt is when the bolt is forward. Back in the 1980's anybody that put a single cut receiver back together should have magnifluxed the receiver after the welds were done. Neal Smith did that to ensure the reliability of the work done.

Like a few others pointed out, You have to take a very close look at the welds inside and outside of the receiver,They should be uniform with no waves or ripples, If NOT, Then pass on it. Tranferable Single cut rewelded M14 receivered rifles normally sell for around 10K and as you know or have seen on the net a complete NON cut receivered rifles sells for three times that price. As far as the pecking order goes, TRW was the best, Second was Winchester followed by Springfield Arsenal and then H+R dead last and had the most problems.

I've had my M14A1-E2 for 15 years now and fired thousands of rounds out of it without a problem at all. It's been chonographed at way over 900 RPM with Portugese ammo which is known to be a little hotter than normal. It has the E2 Buttstock, E2 Slip over the flash hider Muzzle break, E2 Bipod and E2 sling.

The only other 7.62x51mm I wish I would have bought is a BM-59 as they are considered the most controlable 7.62x51mm full-auto in the world even today.

SO CHOOSE WISELY. Lee.

GIshooter
January 26, 2014, 10:23
Lee, I'm curious if both halves are Winchester on yours? I had one that was a beautiful saw cut. Sold it years ago and still regret it.
K, I can scan the pages from the Kuhnhausen manual and e-mail them to you if you'd like.

Lee Carpentieri
January 28, 2014, 15:14
Yes GIshooter, Both half's are Winchester.

GIshooter
January 29, 2014, 01:05
Very nice, sold mine to Elmer down in Devine along with some other things he had to have. I'm sure it found a good home.

K.Funk, did you get to inspect it yet?

K. Funk
January 29, 2014, 16:22
I found out a little more. They are both in transfer, so it may be a while before I can actually see them. One is a Winchester and the other H&R. I have dibs on the Winchester when it gets here pending my inspection. I am looking forward to it and have begun a plan to accumulate the needed Bens.

krf