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aquaman
January 08, 2014, 00:01
I have a lady friend who seems to enjoy shooting enough to buy her first rifle. Over the past 6 months She's spent some time shooting various rifles and hand guns that I own.

We started with a pellet rifle then graduated to a bolt action .22 and later my 10/22. After a few outings, We shot larger caliber rifles and of course a couple FAL's. This weekend we shot handguns. I only have 12ga shotguns so she hasn't done any clay pigeon shooting yet.

After all of that, She most enjoys the bolt action .22lr and wants to purchase a rifle of her own. So... she's been asking me what to buy. There's a lot of value in her to doing her own research but I thought I'd get the ball rolling and try to steer her in the right direction.

She would like to have something by next spring. We are going to do an apple seed shoot and she would like to have her own rifle purchased and tuned in before we go.

Here are the parameters as I know them today (a woman will change her mind):
.22lr
budget $500 for rifle
Prefers scope to irons
Prefers bolt to automatic (my 10/22 has a lousy trigger, that was a major influence)
Accuracy is paramount, she enjoys the challenge of shooting tight groups
She prefers wood to synthetic stocks

I've suggested she look at the savage, marlin, and cz 455. I mentioned that the CMP might have rifles but I'm not certain if they still have supply? Also they might be too heavy for her to start with? What else should she look at?

So... I'm not sure if I'm steering her in the right direction or not. Any learned opinions or voices of experience are much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Oldman47
January 08, 2014, 08:35
Look at CZ - good buy for money

Timber Wolf
January 08, 2014, 08:40
First, get a trigger job done (why have you not already done this?) on your 10/22 and convince her to forget about the bolt action. There is a reason semi-autos are the way to go at an Appleseed, and it is not about laying down suppressive fire. It is about concentrating on shooting and not working the bolt. But, if she must have a bolt gun I like this: http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/MARKIIFVT I do not have one but a buddy does and his Grandson does some real good work with it. My daughter really likes (in addition to my "Liberty Training" 10/22) my Remington 521-T "Junior Special". You would have to just luck into a good one. I found mine on GB but most prices seem too high. There is only so much I am willing to risk on a gun I cannot "fondle" before buying. The 521-T is a nice gun and not so heavy for a lady or junior shooter. You might also find a Mossberg 44 but again they are drying up and prices are going up too. I would tend to think a lady would be better served with a new gun like the Savage that is a known commodity. Good luck and enjoy shooting with your lady!

MAINER
January 08, 2014, 10:17
CZ 455 American; Most definitely! :love:
http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/455-american/
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/407/products_id/62353

I also agree with Timber wolf and am curious why your Ruger 10-22 has a "lousy" pull. Most have a not great, but acceptable trigger and they can be improved considerably.

You should caution your "Lady Friend" that if she shows up at the range with that CZ, it's going to attract males. :D

gunplumber
January 08, 2014, 11:04
The CZ is really a superb bolt action .22. Some call it the poor-man's Anshultz. All I use it for now are colibris, as they won't cycle in the 10/22. For regular ammo, the 10/22 is hard to beat.

fnogger
January 08, 2014, 12:10
CZ or Savage (BTV, BV)

Guy-epic
January 08, 2014, 12:24
I am thinking about one of these CZ as they are getting hard to find and a little better then the average and were great reviews.

http://www.preciseshooter.com/Products/CZ452.aspx

MAINER
January 08, 2014, 19:48
A good .22 Bolt rifle that I like is the Zastava CZ 99. I have one of these and am quite fond of the thing. They are not a CZ 455 for sure, but neither was the price I paid. These were peddled by Remington as a Model 5 for a while and imported by Chas. Daly before that.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/2-AISZMP22-101

Andy the Aussie
January 09, 2014, 00:24
CZ :D

ftierson
January 09, 2014, 01:02
A good .22 Bolt rifle that I like is the Zastava CZ 99. I have one of these and am quite fond of the thing. They are not a CZ 455 for sure, but neither was the price I paid. These were peddled by Remington as a Model 5 for a while and imported by Chas. Daly before that.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/2-AISZMP22-101

I agree with this...

I have a CZ452 (.22LR) that I really like.

But I just recently (haven't shot them yet, that's how recent) picked up a Zastava CZ-99 in .22LR and one in .22WMR. I am very impressed with how easy the bolt actions are and how beautiful the bores are too. The stocks are relatively plain stained beech and the laser checkering looks a little rough (although it really is pretty uniform when you look closely) on the very subdued oil finish, but I'm still very impressed.

I ordered them both directly from the importer, Century Arms, but a number of companies are now advertising them (although they're all getting them from Century too).

And, as MAINER says, they are much cheaper than the CZ rifles.

I'm looking forward to shooting them when the current global warming goes away...

The only downside for a small shooter is that the stocks are proportioned for adult shooters, which is one of the reasons why I really like them. I'm not sure how that would shake out for your lady friend.

Forrest

stoner
January 09, 2014, 01:08
I have the CZ-452 Ultra Lux, no scope, and am extremely pleased with it. I would highly recommend it if you can find one. I really think any good quality .22 bolt would serve well.

ftierson
January 09, 2014, 01:20
I agree with this...


Except, I forgot to add, that I wouldn't buy anything from Cheaper Than Dirt...

But that's just me...

Forrest

aquaman
January 09, 2014, 09:04
Is this the CZ99 you're talking about?

http://www.jgsales.com/zastava-cz99-bolt-action-rifle,-22lr,-22-barrel,-yugo-import-by-cai,-new.-p-62934.html

What can we expect for magazine and parts availability down the road?

ftierson
January 09, 2014, 11:28
Is this the CZ99 you're talking about?

http://www.jgsales.com/zastava-cz99-bolt-action-rifle,-22lr,-22-barrel,-yugo-import-by-cai,-new.-p-62934.html

What can we expect for magazine and parts availability down the road?

Yes, that's the one...

In terms of magazine availability, I have no good answer. When I ordered mine, I also checked on extra mags at Century (which they list, but weren't in stock). I didn't ask about parts. Then again, Zastava has been making guns for quite a while, including these rifles, so I'm guessing that parts are, or will be, available. But that is a guess. Hell, I work in a gunsmith shop and can tell you that parts are often difficult to get for recent (and sometimes even in-production) guns built in this country.

The rifles that I received both came with two 5rd mags. I would have ordered another two each if they had been available. I still will at some time in the future if they become available. But that's mostly because I'm anal about extra mags for mag guns. Since I'm not planning on trying to make the CZ99 into an assault rifle, it's not really that big of a problem.

Forrest

MAINER
January 09, 2014, 11:33
aquaman,
Yup, that's the one, pretty good price too, I think.

Forrest, Was just looking for a pic, the seller is definitely a no sale for me. Price suks too!
Not sure what's up with this, same rifle?
http://www.arsenalfirearms.com/

For mags, you might find them listed for a Remington Model 5. I bought the 22 LR mags from Cabela's a while back in a 3-pack for $27.

I think Zastava made the Mark X Mausers that were around a dozen or so years ago.

Andy the Aussie
January 09, 2014, 13:43
My "CZ" (called Brno here) .22s are dated 1959 and 1982, they have been doing this for a good while now... ;)

ftierson
January 09, 2014, 21:21
aquaman,
Yup, that's the one, pretty good price too, I think.

Forrest, Was just looking for a pic, the seller is definitely a no sale for me. Price suks too!
Not sure what's up with this, same rifle?
http://www.arsenalfirearms.com/

For mags, you might find them listed for a Remington Model 5. I bought the 22 LR mags from Cabela's a while back in a 3-pack for $27.

I think Zastava made the Mark X Mausers that were around a dozen or so years ago.

Zastava did make the Interarms Mark X Mausers (I have one in .308Win that I bought in about 1975 that I have been very happy with).

Zastava is currently making essentially the old Mark X, which Century is importing as the Model 70. Century is also importing the Zastava M85 Mini-Mauser (in .223, 7.62x39 and .22Hornet, I think). Zastava is in Serbia, which was part of Yugoslavia when the Mark X was being imported.

The Zastava CZ99 .22 rimfire rifles that Century is currently importing (and the ones that I've been talking about here) are made in Serbia and have nothing to do with CZ (manufacturer of the CZ452, etc.), which is located in the Czech Republic (part of the old Czechoslovakia). CZ is located in Brno, Czech Republic.

Forrest

Exit308
January 10, 2014, 23:21
Here is a possibility although not even out yet.
http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRimfireCompact/models.html
It uses 10/22 mags including the BX25 mags. The compact has a 12.5 inch LOP and the standard has a 13.75. Drilled and tapped for Weaver bases. And only $329 MSRP.

aquaman
January 11, 2014, 13:15
Exit 308: That's an interesting offering from Ruger, although I am suspicious as to the barrel quality that will offered by those fellas at that price point, especially after my experience with my 10/22

UPDATE:
So after reading and researching the lady has come up with a plan, I thought I would share.

Several of you asked why I hadn't improved the trigger on my 10/22. She put me on the spot too.

I bought the rifle in 2000, out of the box performance was utterly underwhelming. As mentioned, the trigger was lousy but I'm generally able to get around that shortcoming with the help of a bench and sand bags. I tried a half dozen different ammo samples but wasn't able to get acceptable groups. So in the safe it sits... Less than 200 rounds have gone down range to date.

Improving performance has been a back burner project. Every time I look at the thing I get a bit grumpy, yet I can't bring myself to sell it as I know it can be improved with a bit of time and money. I have .22lr rifles in my safe that are pure joy to shoot so I've not fussed with the 10/22.

The Lady suggested I sell it or fix it but I'm not allowed to whine and complain about the crappy Ruger 10/22 anymore. Remove the splinter... it makes sense to me. She's funny that way, most women are prone to muddle my thoughts rather than clarify them ;)

So we'll be working on the 10/22. I hope I can find some ammo it likes otherwise I'll probably be looking for a new barrel (it's the stainless model).

The lady wants to be involved in the 10/22 tune up. She's decided to go with the CZ 455 or Ruger 10/22 depending on how much fun it is and how much $$ it costs to tune the 10/22. She is also underwhelmed with the Ruger stock (as am I). So there's a lot the 10/22 must overcome if it's to be her choice.

I must say I really like what I've read about the Zastava. It seems like a good choice for me. But the Lady considers the CZ to have a better fit and finish as well as better potential resale. She says she wants her first rifle to be "quality" over "value". Not seeing the rifles side by side, it's hard to compare. That's why it's so helpful to hear from all of you. Thanks for the input.

So, if anyone wants to share tune tips for the 10/22 We're all ears. Perhaps we should open a new topic with progress reports?

pjpjr
January 11, 2014, 14:06
Look at CZ - good buy for money

Best buy for the money!

kmurphy
January 11, 2014, 16:13
My CZ453 is the best money I have ever spent on any rifle. Period.

1911Ron
January 12, 2014, 22:50
Tune up tips can be found at Rimfire Central. I took my barrel off and after cleaning every thing real well i reinstalled it, taking care to take up the allen screws evenly so it would stay straight, it shoots real good now:cool:

john17427
January 13, 2014, 00:57
I bought my 10/22 30 years ago, but haven't shot it much since I got the CZ 452 about 5 years ago. The CZ just hits. I shot blades of grass out in the field when I first got it. Not sure if my eyes can do it now.

Tuhlmann
January 13, 2014, 13:41
Choose any 3. Buy all 3. Shoot all 3. Learn on all 3. Have fun with all 3. Plan your next 3.

tac-40
January 14, 2014, 20:15
I bought a BRNo No1 (grandfather to the CZ) from AIM a couple of years ago. After cleanup that thing turned out to be a sweet rifle. Scary accurate, handles nicely and balance outstanding. Based on that, I would go with the CZ/BRNo rifles. Will last several lifetimes and be a great hand-me-down to your future grands and great-grands.

Aeroscout
January 14, 2014, 20:31
Unless it is a requirement for the shoot she wishes to participate in.....

Her prerequisites sound ideally suited to a .17 HMR

Savage rifle and a cheap but effective sweet 17 scope and it all comes well under budget.....and is far more accurate/effective than your run of the mill .22

Andy the Aussie
January 15, 2014, 01:32
I bought a BRNo No1 (grandfather to the CZ) from AIM a couple of years ago. After cleanup that thing turned out to be a sweet rifle. Scary accurate, handles nicely and balance outstanding. Based on that, I would go with the CZ/BRNo rifles. Will last several lifetimes and be a great hand-me-down to your future grands and great-grands. ... mine are a Model 1 (1950s) and a Model 2 (1982) ... they just keep on working !!!

Blackmore
January 15, 2014, 07:27
For mags, you might find them listed for a Remington Model 5. I bought the 22 LR mags from Cabela's a while back in a 3-pack for $27.


I bought a bunch of those 3/$25 from Cabela's but sadly that deal is long gone. I can't even find a single magazine for the Zastava on their website now.

MAINER
January 15, 2014, 11:40
I found 5 rd, Remington Model 5 mags for .22 Magnum at CDNN for $24.99, but no LR mags. Unfortunately, I don't have a .22 Mag, my rifle is .22LR. I don't remember even seeing a listing for the .22 Mag rifle.

It's rumored that Mossberg Plinkster mags can be modified to fit, but have not tried it myself.

Found mags here; I notice they are listed under "Arsenal" now.
http://www.cheapgungear.com/category_s/1985.htm

Four mags for my 22 LR should be enough. They are built like a Tank!

aquaman
January 24, 2014, 23:56
Well... I just couldn't stop thinking about the Zastava CZ 99 so had to I buy one. I picked it today. Is anyone interested in a review?

ALL FAL
January 25, 2014, 00:21
Well... I just couldn't stop thinking about the Zastava CZ 99 so had to I buy one. I picked it today. Is anyone interested in a review?

Cool, start by "How is the trigger" :)

ftierson
January 25, 2014, 00:42
Well... I just couldn't stop thinking about the Zastava CZ 99 so had to I buy one. I picked it today. Is anyone interested in a review?

I'd like to hear your thoughts on it... :)

Forrest

LYCAN
January 25, 2014, 01:35
Cz w/out hesitation or reservation...

LYCAN
January 25, 2014, 01:37
Choose any 3. Buy all 3. Shoot all 3. Learn on all 3. Have fun with all 3. Plan your next 3.

I like the way you think! :beer:

FUUN063
January 25, 2014, 03:50
I see you already purchased a rifle, but a few other choices for the bolt action person would be a Ruger 77/22 or a Remington 541T. I have had several of both models and still presently own one of each. They are difficult to beat, shoot nice with a variety of ammo and hold their value very well.

Leland

MAINER
January 25, 2014, 10:04
Well... I just couldn't stop thinking about the Zastava CZ 99 so had to I buy one. I picked it today. Is anyone interested in a review?

Yup, I'll be waiting for it. :smile:

It will probably take an ammo brick or two to loosen up and smooth out a bit.

My rifle is marked as a Chas. Daly Superior II, otherwise it's a CZ 99. I found it to have a few snags from sharp edges and a bit stiff to operate at first.
With my usual disregard of the manufacturer's instruction, I took it apart and applied files, stones, sandpaper, grease and oil where I felt it was needed.

It still worked when I got it back together and much smoother. No work done on the trigger as yet. After shooting FALs with 8 pound triggers, anything else is child's play.

ftierson
January 25, 2014, 11:04
After shooting FALs with 8 pound triggers, anything else is child's play.

:)

8 lb, spongy triggers... :)

The two CZ-99s that I just picked up are marked Zastava, and the actions are crisp, but not stiff (gotta love those technical terms).

Forrest

MAINER
January 25, 2014, 17:31
Crisp? Well OK, if that's what they say it is then. :rolleyes:

Finally found a Zastava in .22 Magnum flavor for $289. Grabagun, if I remember right. Thinking about it, but my 22 Hornet fills the gap between the 22 LR and the .223 pretty well. And there is that CZ 452(3) Hornet or some such I've been looking at.

Did I mention that I have too many rifles already?

DYNOMIKE
February 08, 2014, 10:13
I see you bought a rifle and had read the thread earlier I would have said...

With the budget you noted buy the CZ..
In the last couple years I have sold a BUNCH of CZ rifles and while I've not had a single complaint from anyone that made the purchase there have been numerous rave reviews...

Their .22 Rifles are fantastic and shoot really well..

KBAR04
February 10, 2014, 18:25
BRNO/CZ .22 rifles were all over Africa back in the day. I've never fired one that wasnt accurate. They are top rifles, regardless of price.

catmguy445
February 10, 2014, 19:35
This is something no one seems to have mentioned yet, but the new Ruger American rimfire sounds like it would be a good choice also. Stock length is adjustable, has an Accutrigger type trigger, uses 10/22 magazines, and the factory list price is $329.

Oops, I take it back about no one mentioning it. Exit308 did post a link to the Ruger website in Post #18.

aquaman
February 17, 2014, 21:43
To be clear, my lady friend didn't buy the Zastava. She's still shopping. I got the Zastava because it sounded like it might be a shooter at a good value. Here's my impression:

The good:
All metal parts
The trigger is a consistent 4.5# pull, no creep, crisp break. Adjustable
The bluing is high quality
The price with shipping, tax and transfer was just shy of $250

The average:
The stock fits ok for use with iron sights but the finish mediocre
The iron sights aren't easily adjustable
The accuracy hasn't been impressive after 100 rounds of various ammo. So far, it likes the cheap blazer crap the best. Best 10 shot group at 40 foot indoor range was 1/2" more typical 1" groups.

The bad:
The magazine sucks! Getting round 4&5 in the magazine is like a monkey try to fuŁ€ a football. The sharp edges wore holes in my tough farmer fingers after only 100 rounds.
The magazine release fits poorly and is horribly designed. I have to depress the magazine release to insert the mag and it fits so sloppy it requires considerable fiddling to get it in without binding.
No feed ramp, the bullets often get mashed when chambering
The bolt has ejector hooks on both sides. This design requires considerable force at the end of the bolt cycle to eject the empty shell.
The bolt receiver is poorly machined. The bolt fits loosely, is not smooth and drags on high points. If you look at the photo you can see the high points have worn the bluing after 100 rounds.
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/zAquaman/th_image_zps2298738b.jpg (http://s1256.photobucket.com/user/zAquaman/media/image_zps2298738b.jpg.html)

I've not decide if I'm going to try to improve this gun or sell it. I could not recommend the zastava cz-99 to anyone because of the poor machining, poor magazine design, mediocre accuracy, overall poor fit and finish.

No doubt this particular zastava can be improved, but in the end it would be like pimping out a pinto. I'm never going to feel good about taking it out of the gun safe.

MAINER
February 18, 2014, 13:28
Sorry you didn't like the Zastava. I had a different experience with mine, maybe because it was built for Charles Daly, but no idea why they would produce a different quality rifle.
For sure, it did take a bit of polishing and shooting to smooth it up to a happy level. I probably cycled the bolt 500 times or so while waiting for the scope to arrive.

Dual extractors are generally a good thing and found on only higher end .22 rifles. Wither two extractors are actually needed on a .22 rim fire is another matter as I have several rifles that work fine with a single.

The mags are buggers, but on a positive note, you can run over them with a truck without much ill effect. :rolleyes:

My groups have been .75" at 50 yds with good ammo, but that is with a scope.
I haven't tried shooting with the irons yet. I plan on giving them a go just to get a zero at 50 yds.

GunOwner2011
February 19, 2014, 19:23
Why don't you look at some older/used .22 bolt guns?

My Uncle gave me my first rifle (Savage/Anschutz 141) when I was 13, and I've shot thousands of rounds out it. It's still as accurate as the day I got it. The 141 has a slightly smaller stock than the Anschutz 54 and 64, and it's slight lighter in weight.

I've seen them sell for $350-$600 on the auction sites.

There are also some excellent Remington and Winchester bolt guns available on the auction sites. for under $500.