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DABTL
December 11, 2013, 16:35
Cost $85

http://www.texasbarcle.com/materials/Programs/2916/WebCastInfo.htm

2barearms
December 11, 2013, 16:56
Another sales job. Does he have a seminar on how to buy real estate?

DABTL
December 11, 2013, 17:01
State Bar of Texas 'experts' teaching.

L Haney
December 11, 2013, 18:19
Bill, have you seen these type of things being presented before? Particular segments of law and actual teaching by people who work in those areas?

Reason I ask is if that is the case (no pun intended) the price seems suspiciously low.

2barearms
December 12, 2013, 06:53
So this lawyer has inside knowledge of how the ATF is going to rule with respect to the Responsible Person debate?

L Haney
December 12, 2013, 07:32
So this lawyer has inside knowledge of how the ATF is going to rule with respect to the Responsible Person debate?


I didn't get that. I just see instruction in how to construct a legal fiction (Trust) for the purpose of owning NFA items.

DABTL
December 12, 2013, 07:34
Bill, have you seen these type of things being presented before? Particular segments of law and actual teaching by people who work in those areas?

Reason I ask is if that is the case (no pun intended) the price seems suspiciously low.

Lowell it looks like fairly thin gruel to me. I thought maybe some would like to watch it and see what they have to say. One is lawyer and the other is a businessman.

I could pay for it and download it to discs?

What do I think it is? I think it is for someone who joined the TSRA in 2011, practices divorce and civil litigation whom I have never heard of wanting to increase business by being and expert in NFA Trusts. The other is a silencer sales business.

It is a con put on by the SBOT to raise some extra revenue disguised as legal education.

L Haney
December 12, 2013, 07:42
Lowell it looks like fairly thin gruel to me.

This made me laugh out loud, haven't heard that phrase in a long time.

The low price made me suspicious from the get go. Even online training in a few of the areas I work in (non-legal arena) often go for hundreds of dollars per pop.

I would have thought if the host was a shit hot writer of iron clad revocable trusts he would have wanted more to share his expertise.

You've done nothing to disabuse me of that initial opinion.

2barearms
December 12, 2013, 14:36
Lowell it looks like fairly thin gruel to me. I thought maybe some would like to watch it and see what they have to say. One is lawyer and the other is a businessman.

I could pay for it and download it to discs?

What do I think it is? I think it is for someone who joined the TSRA in 2011, practices divorce and civil litigation whom I have never heard of wanting to increase business by being and expert in NFA Trusts. The other is a silencer sales business.

It is a con put on by the SBOT to raise some extra revenue disguised as legal education.

Somehow I didn't expect you to agree with me, are you feeling ok?

Warbirds Custom Guns
December 12, 2013, 21:53
Lowell it looks like fairly thin gruel to me. I thought maybe some would like to watch it and see what they have to say. One is lawyer and the other is a businessman.

I could pay for it and download it to discs?

What do I think it is? I think it is for someone who joined the TSRA in 2011, practices divorce and civil litigation whom I have never heard of wanting to increase business by being and expert in NFA Trusts. The other is a silencer sales business.

It is a con put on by the SBOT to raise some extra revenue disguised as legal education.

He's taking lessons from Obummer in chief.
Telling everyone nothing has changed, while robbing you behind your back.

I got word that the new rules for trusts is a done deal.
We"ll see how it works out.



.

ExCdnSoldierInTx
December 13, 2013, 15:34
In talking to Bill and others, I was told that trusts are for all intents and purposes a thing of the past.
I have one in the pipe now as an individual.
I just don't want any issues.....

I'm so not an NFA expert like you guys are so I sit, ask questions, and listen

2barearms
December 13, 2013, 21:29
The trust will still have some benefits with regard to disposition of the
items in it should you suffer an untimely demise or otherwise become
unable to maintain the collection legally, ie mentally incapacitated.
If your local Cleo will not sign the paperwork and they change the regulation
to mean that the 'responsible person' has to have a fingerprint card and the
cleo has to signoff that he's looked at you then many thousands of gun owners will end up having to sue the Federal Government for restoration of their rights.

In talking to Bill and others, I was told that trusts are for all intents and purposes a thing of the past.
I have one in the pipe now as an individual.
I just don't want any issues.....

I'm so not an NFA expert like you guys are so I sit, ask questions, and listen

DABTL
December 14, 2013, 09:33
That would be one useless lawsuit.

2barearms
December 14, 2013, 16:08
That would be one useless lawsuit.

We'll see.

DABTL
December 14, 2013, 17:53
Without going into the details, I can assure you a suit as envisioned by you would easily be stepped around. Easily.

Glucker
December 15, 2013, 14:56
For anybody that is interested in some factual experience, as opposed to guessing (or speculating, as we say in the legal profession), I HAVE attended CLE (continuing legal education) courses with the speaker in question, and I found them to be pretty informative. Well worth the money I paid. I know alot about Texas and Federal gun law, and I still learned a few things. The speaker is house counsel for the Texas State Rifle Association, of which I am a Defender Member. He assists them in all things legal, and writes well thought out articles for their monthly magazine.

A wise man understands that if you learn even a few things, you're leaving with more knowledge than you started with. And are therefore ahead. I learned things that my own trust-writing attorney/SOT dealer didn't know (2barearms you know who I'm talking about), and incorporated them into my trust, and those I've drafted for others. Anybody can type on a keyboard and roll their eyes in skepticism, for things they apparently know nothing about.

The course isn't intended to turn non-lawyers into lawyers, but rather to assist lawyers in understanding the topic in question. I think anybody remotely interested in the subject SHOULD watch it, lawyer or non, it will be interesting and there are worse ways to spend $85.00. Who cares if somebody that wants to sell suppressors is there, you don't have to buy anything from him.

Certainly anybody can create an NFA trust, it isn't rocket science, and you can even cut and paste your buddy's if you want to. But if you ever end up in front of a jury, for whatever reason, it will sound a whole lot better if you can say that you had a lawyer create your trust. Might even get that lawyer to come in and testify on your behalf, which could maybe be a little helpful. Same reason I have a CPA do my tax return that I could easily do myself. If the IRS ever wants to rake me over the coals, I've got a layer of professional insulation, which shows I meant to do things above board. And the IRS is almost always happy to be paid off. ATF wants to put your ass in prison, take your guns, bankrupt your family, etc.

L Haney
December 15, 2013, 15:33
I'm not asking here for anyone to do this, but I'd love to see a dissection of the component parts and verbiage used in a trust geared toward NFA items.

I fully understand these are work products of the author and not to be scattered to the winds which is why I don't ask anyone do so.

But just from a learning perspective of how in our current legal environment an assembly of text, laid down on paper makes what is patently illegal done by an individual, inherently digestible to government agencies.

This boggles my mind.

It's akin to the mindphuck Obi Won Kenobe delivered to the storm troopers looking for a couple of droids.

By the mere formulation of the proper words, properly executed in a recognized format, whole swaths of preconditions and regulations are rendered moot.

Is that not fascinating? Is this not more truly an illustration of what total bullshit this entire regulatory regime actually is?

I just LOVE actual examples of how seemingly and demonstratively incoherent our government is.

DABTL
December 15, 2013, 15:57
For anybody that is interested in some factual experience, as opposed to guessing (or speculating, as we say in the legal profession), I HAVE attended CLE (continuing legal education) courses with the speaker in question, and I found them to be pretty informative. Well worth the money I paid. I know alot about Texas and Federal gun law, and I still learned a few things. The speaker is house counsel for the Texas State Rifle Association, of which I am a Defender Member. He assists them in all things legal, and writes well thought out articles for their monthly magazine.

A wise man understands that if you learn even a few things, you're leaving with more knowledge than you started with. And are therefore ahead. I learned things that my own trust-writing attorney/SOT dealer didn't know (2barearms you know who I'm talking about), and incorporated them into my trust, and those I've drafted for others. Anybody can type on a keyboard and roll their eyes in skepticism, for things they apparently know nothing about.

The course isn't intended to turn non-lawyers into lawyers, but rather to assist lawyers in understanding the topic in question. I think anybody remotely interested in the subject SHOULD watch it, lawyer or non, it will be interesting and there are worse ways to spend $85.00. Who cares if somebody that wants to sell suppressors is there, you don't have to buy anything from him.

Certainly anybody can create an NFA trust, it isn't rocket science, and you can even cut and paste your buddy's if you want to. But if you ever end up in front of a jury, for whatever reason, it will sound a whole lot better if you can say that you had a lawyer create your trust. Might even get that lawyer to come in and testify on your behalf, which could maybe be a little helpful. Same reason I have a CPA do my tax return that I could easily do myself. If the IRS ever wants to rake me over the coals, I've got a layer of professional insulation, which shows I meant to do things above board. And the IRS is almost always happy to be paid off. ATF wants to put your ass in prison, take your guns, bankrupt your family, etc.

Actually, you hit the nail on the head by hiring a lawyer. For the most part this is how the bankers avoid liability. Good thought.