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Texgunner
October 05, 2013, 21:57
I've had big lust lately to acquire a Smith&Wesson Schofield replica. That lust was somewhat cooled today when I priced a few on GunBroker. They were a little more than I expected but I'd still love to have one. I've done a little research and found a good many folks saying nice things about the Uberti pistols. Do any of you have one of these, or have any experience with them? I don't handload and I know that either .45 Colt or .44-40 will be expensive to buy. I'd like a Colt SAA as well, in .45 so maybe that would be more practical if I end up with both guns. Any thoughts on those two rounds? Thanks for taking a single-action newbie under your wing!
Gary

Retired Bum
October 05, 2013, 22:40
I have owned my share of Colt and Ruger single action revolvers over a 50 year span. Bought a new Ruger Single Six when I was just fourteen years old. My old man had to actually buy it due to my age but I paid for it.....

I looked at two different makes of Schofield repro's back when they were introduced close to 20 years ago. The Uberti and the San Marco Armi. Both were decently made revolvers IMHO. But I decided to give them a pass. Just not my cup of tea.

I hand load both the .44-40 and the .45 Colt cartridges. The .45 is the easier of the two because it is a straight wall case and I have a RCBS tungsten carbide sizing die which reduces the labor by a significant amount. The .44-40 is a bottleneck round that requires a steel resizing die which means that the cases must be tumbled clean and then lubed before resizing. Then the cases have to be cleaned again to remove the lube. The .44-40 has thin neck and case walls and care must be exercised when running the cases into the resizing and expander dies. Otherwise a crumpled case is the result.

My standard load for the .44-40 is a home cast RCBS # 44200FN. It weights 200 grains and is a more or less duplicate of the original 200 grain lead bullet. I load it over 7.0 grains of Win #231 and it duplicates the Winchester 200 grain JSP factory load velocity wise when chronographed out of my S&W Model 544 Texas Wagon Train N frame with the five inch barrel. Accurate and easy shooting. Average velocity for six rounds is 820 fps.

My standard load for the .45 Colt is a home cast RCBS # 45255 SWC. Its as cast weight is 262 grains and I size it in a .452" die. Over 7.0 grains of #231 is does 800 fps in my 4 3/4" 3rd gen Colt SAA and 860 fps in my 7.5 inch 2nd gen Colt SAA. A very pleasant and accurate load in both revolvers.

If I could only have one of the two then it would be the .45 Colt hands down. There is nothing that the .44-40 can do that I can't do with hand loaded .45 Colt ammo.

And so it goes.


The Retired One

FUUN063
October 06, 2013, 01:06
You gotta like the W231! I would go for the Schofield if you really like Smith's. but, Retired Bum has a valid point if you only can get the one gun.

I didn't really help, sorry.:tongue:


Leland
:fal:

CRShooter32
October 06, 2013, 06:55
I have one of the Uberti replicas, 5" in 44-40, it is very nicely made, fit and finish are excellent, overall I'm pleased with it. The pricing is high, but, I found this one used, like new in the box, never fired, in the plastic bag, still full of the factory cosmoline, for half of retail, I have seen prices upwards of $1200 for a Taylor's "version". Replacement parts are available from VTIGunparts.com.

jdmcomp
October 06, 2013, 10:49
I also have a Uberti 7 in in 45 (in fact, I probably have more then a dozen SAs in 45) and it is a fine gun and a good shooter. It will not shoot to its sights with any load I have come up with and doubtless none of the fixed sight guns will except through luck. It just was not important in the day and apparently is not important in replicas. Most are close enough or can be altered to shoot to the sights but they rarely do out of the box.

There are several models of the S&W topbreak other then the Army model you may be interested in such as the No 3 and the Russian. Enjoy the gun, and it will provide you with a lifetime of shooting. I have seen several at very good prices at gun shows but not the Schofield mode.

Texgunner
October 06, 2013, 21:15
Thanks for all the replies. :bow:
I'll probably have more questions later; I'm runnin' a little late tonight.
Gary

SWOHFAL
October 06, 2013, 22:49
Didn't S&W do their own Schofield repro a few years back?

FUUN063
October 06, 2013, 23:04
Yep, bit with some internal safety changes, IIRC. Still nice, my buddy had one for a while.


Leland

BUFF
October 07, 2013, 01:41
S&W made their Schofield replica in 2000-2003. They were a Performance Center (their custom shop) product. They made most with a blue finish and 7 inch barrel, some with nickel and 7 inch and then some 5 inchers, both finishes, they called 'Wells Fargo' Editions, as Wells Fargo used quite a few of them after the U.S. Army surplused them.

New they retailed for about $1,500. They have generally stayed quite pricey.

SWOHFAL
October 07, 2013, 06:08
Caveat Emptor:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?152502-Sad-tale-of-a-Schofield

Timber Wolf
October 07, 2013, 07:36
Might as well cut it for Moon Clips: http://www.gunblast.com/TK-Schofield.htm

K. Funk
October 07, 2013, 20:19
I had the bug as well. I went ahead and bought a Navy Arms Schofield in .44 Russian. It had the Russian Cyrillic markings on the barrel rib. It is one fine revolver. I had to pay for it, but it is exactly what I was looking for.

krf

Texgunner
October 07, 2013, 21:27
Lot's of good info gentlemen. SWOHFAL, that's a scary tale. I hope I'd be luckier than that guy.

But, it does seem that more folks are happy with theirs. Keep the stories and ideas coming please. I'd like to eventually have a Colt SAA replica (or even the real deal, I saw some stunning models at Collectors Firearms in Houston a couple years ago) and a Remington replica as well as a Schofield. Man, I think I'm watching too much Gunsmoke on Encore Westerns!:biggrin:

A friend has a 7" Schofield, Uberti I believe. I'm going to hit him up for a chance to shoot his. I'm thinking .45 Colt would be the most versatile caliber since all three of the pistols I mentioned are chambered for that, is that correct? Thanks again gents!
Gary

Brian in MN
October 07, 2013, 21:34
Before you buy a .44-40 price the ammo!!!!

CRShooter32
October 08, 2013, 11:20
Before you buy a .44-40 price the ammo!!!!

True, 44-40 isn't cheap, and it's been hard to get around here, I grabbed the last two boxes they had when I bought the Schofield, $40 for Ultramax cowboy action loads, however, .45 Colt was higher.

Texgunner
October 08, 2013, 11:41
I sure wish I had started hand-loading "back in the day".:(

genmeagher
October 08, 2013, 22:08
I sure wish I had started hand-loading "back in the day".:(

Some Schofields come in S&W .38. That caliber may be fun to shoot at pie tins blowing in the wind, empty whisky bottles and stumbling, drunken midgets, but all in all it is a lame caliber.

The .38 S&W revolvers are actually a hoot to shoot. Stumbling and drunk midgets just make everything better>

SWOHFAL
October 09, 2013, 00:31
Some Schofields come in S&W .38. That caliber may be fun to shoot at pie tins blowing in the wind, empty whisky bottles and stumbling, drunken midgets, but all in all it is a lame caliber.

The .38 S&W revolvers are actually a hoot to shoot. Stumbling and drunk midgets just make everything better>

NY will probably ban anything larger than .38 soon enough and at least you'll get in under the seven round limit so you don't have to do more time than kiddie rapers.

catmguy445
October 09, 2013, 12:44
I sure wish I had started hand-loading "back in the day".:(

There's no real reason you can't start handloading now, is there? It's not difficult, it just takes patience and attention to detail.

Texgunner
October 09, 2013, 14:17
There's no real reason you can't start handloading now, is there? It's not difficult, it just takes patience and attention to detail.

Yes, you're exactly right. In fact, I have considered it quite a bit lately. I'll be 61 in December, but I do plan to be around to shoot for a while yet. Perhaps, it's not too late. Twenty-five years ago, I had a gunsmith neighbor, actually he had been a high-school classmate of my mother, who did a lot of handloading. He tutored me on the skill and allowed me to use his equipment to load .38 spl. and .357 magnum. I paid for the components and loaded under his watchful eyes. I started with a single-stage press and gradually moved to a progressive loader. But, that was long ago and I would have to essentially relearn everything he taught.

Back then, I shot a lot of rounds through my 4" S&W 686. Eugene Salach, the 'smith, was a Smith & Wesson expert and tuned those revolvers like a fine art. My 686 received the full treatment and is has the nicest trigger, single and double-action of any revolver I've handled. As an aside, Gene (now deceased) has a son, Michael Salach, who held several shooting records at Camp Perry, where his mom and dad both worked matches. Michael went to Annapolis where he shot on the Navy team in the Pan-American Matches. A naval aviator (he flew P-3s), Michael did and may still shoot in Navy reserve matches and had a safe full of Garand trophy rifles. Yes, they were a shooting family, the Salachs.:)

I'm curious what a "ball park" figure would be to get into handloading now. Primarily, I'd be interested in hand-gun cartridges I guess. What would I need, other than a press and the components of course? Thanks for any guidance here!
Gary

MAINER
October 11, 2013, 10:36
Yes, you're exactly right. In fact, I have considered it quite a bit lately.
I'm curious what a "ball park" figure would be to get into handloading now. Primarily, I'd be interested in hand-gun cartridges I guess. What would I need, other than a press and the components of course? Thanks for any guidance here!
Gary

Depends on the your requirements. You pay for speed, reloading 100 rounds per hour requires a lot less equipment than loading 500 rounds per hour.
I have a Hornady Progressive, but still do most reloading on a single stage Rockchucker.

Used equipment can be a good buy, but only if from a reliable source or returnable.

Powder Scale, Digitals are cheaper, but can be finicky. Balance scales are slower and more expensive.

Powder Measure/Dispensor, Lot of choices here from the big adjustable bench types for both rifle and pistol to the fixed rotor/bushing types for pistol powder charges only. I like my Hornady Pistol Powder Measure but the charge bushings have been somewhat scarce and RCBS makes a rotor type that is popular. These are a fast way to throw powder charges for pistol cartridges.

Case Trimmer, You can get by with a Lyman or LEE Hand Trimmer, especially for 50 to 100 pistol cases, but if you will be doing several hundred cases at a time, recommend at least a Hand-crank trimmer like Forster, RCBS, Hornady (my favorite w/micrometer).

Dies, If Carbide dies are available for the cartridge you will be loading, buy them.

Books, Lyman's 49th Ed will provide a lot of info, especially lead bullets. New powders come out so often now that it make little sense to buy a bunch of reloading manuals.
Gun Digest has "The ABC's of Reloading" that contains a lot of basic info, but the 7th edition I have features LEE tools that I personally don't care for. Some folks like LEE's stuff and are welcome to it. To them I say, spare me the dissenting opinions, please. :cool:

Texgunner
October 11, 2013, 11:26
Thanks for that information Mainer! I can see that I have my homework cut out for me.:) When I was handloading under the tutelage of my neighbor in the 80s, I don't recall ever having to trim cases when loading the .38 spl. and .357 mag. I brought my empty cases over to his shop and loaded them "as is". I guess I thought the case trimming only applied to rifle caliber cases?

MAINER
October 11, 2013, 15:47
Usually pistol cases don't need trimming, but the big honkers in the .44 and 45 class sometimes do. .45 Colt cases are relatively thin and do stretch on firing.

All cases need to be checked for length to be sure they don't extend into the forcing cone of a Revolver chamber and create excess pressure. This is usually not a problem with Semi-auto pistols with straight chambers.

I have bought new unprimed .45 Colt brass that was way too long and had to be trimmed before loading.
Another problem is an uneven case mouth that's longer on one side or unequal in length. All the cases need to be the same length to produce an even and equal crimp for best accuracy, especially when using lead bullets.

Texgunner
October 11, 2013, 15:52
Thank you for the clarification. I understand much better now. My experiences were very limited to say the least. Thanks for taking the time to educate me Mainer. Much appreciated!
Gary

Oh, and do you have any "estimate" about how much per round one could load .45 Colt these days?

MAINER
October 12, 2013, 10:12
Toughest question yet. :D

I could load 45 Colt for $0.10 or less per round, BUT that's because I have my own cast bullets, Unique powder that paid about $8.00 a pound for, and cases that cost $0.05 ea. from the "Once-fired" box at the Gun Store. As long as they all have the same headstamp that is.

Rough estimate in today's price reality;
Brass, Starline @ $22 per C = 22 cents ea. (Should be good for 6+ loadings)
Bullets, Cast lead @ $60 500 = 12 " ea.
Powder, Univ. Clay @ $23 per lb. = 2.6 cents ea.
Primer, Large Pistol @ $32 per K = 3.2 cents ea.

Total = $0.40 per round

Much depends on your local Gun Shops. Powder and Primers are hazmat and unless you order large quantities you're stuck with local prices. Around here, powder is $28 or more and primers are in the $35 per 1000 range.

Good bullet source;
http://www.missouribullet.com/index.php

BUFF
October 13, 2013, 05:10
There is a nice S&W for sale on the Smith-Wesson Forum right now. $3,000.00. It is a gun I might actually buy one of some day.

I might be tempted to sell my genuine Smith & Wesson 3 digit serial numbered, 1875-shipped First Model Schofield for that! Or not.

Texgunner
October 13, 2013, 08:23
Mainer, you've given me much good information, and food for thought. Thank you sir. I'm looking at retirement in three years and now might just be a good time to dive into handloading. I hope I'm going to have a lot more time for such things then.:wink: Why wait for prices to climb higher or even face changing laws by then? Strike while the iron's hot I say.

Man, BUFF, you really have something there! Guns such as yours, or the pistol for sale, are way out of my league. I'd love to see a picture of that Schofield of yours!:bow:
Gary

fire for effect
November 02, 2013, 19:20
Wyatt Earp used a Smith & Wesson at the OK Coral.

aardq
November 02, 2013, 20:48
Mainer's cost estimate is based on the initial loading' I'd say that mild loads will get you 10 or more loads out of a case. That reduces his numbers by 20 cents a round, which makes the cost about 20 cents a round.

Back in the day, 38 special cases used with mild target loads lasted well over 50 reloads making the cost of the cases the cheapest part of reloading.

I recommend starting with a single stage press until you have gained knowledge and skills on reloading. For handguns only you can't beat the Dillon Square Deal. For rifle and pistol any good progressive will work.

Always have 2-3 manuals on hand and cross check your loads. The info in manuals is good, but occasionally will vary from each other. It may be a difference in testing methods, or a printing error.

Another thing to remember is that your net result will not be a reduction in overall spending. You'll spend as much as you do now, but you will shoot much more!

Dan

Texgunner
November 03, 2013, 08:28
Mainer's cost estimate is based on the initial loading' I'd say that mild loads will get you 10 or more loads out of a case. That reduces his numbers by 20 cents a round, which makes the cost about 20 cents a round.

Back in the day, 38 special cases used with mild target loads lasted well over 50 reloads making the cost of the cases the cheapest part of reloading.

I recommend starting with a single stage press until you have gained knowledge and skills on reloading. For handguns only you can't beat the Dillon Square Deal. For rifle and pistol any good progressive will work.

Always have 2-3 manuals on hand and cross check your loads. The info in manuals is good, but occasionally will vary from each other. It may be a difference in testing methods, or a printing error.

Another thing to remember is that your net result will not be a reduction in overall spending. You'll spend as much as you do now, but you will shoot much more!

Dan

That's good advice Dan. Thanks for that! I appreciate the help and encouragement.
Gary

justashooter
November 08, 2013, 12:33
I have seen prices upwards of $1200 for a Taylor's "version".

which is why i shoot a $250 Canadian contract 1915 S&W in 455 recut to 45 ACP. 6 grains of AA2 and a 250 grain casting out of cheap range brass gives 800 fps.