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littlehoot
July 30, 2013, 12:41
i was sitting around wondering the other day, (a dangerous thing), if you were to aquire a registered m2 carbine conversion kit: i.e.-all parts as a unit, registered as a class III firearm; and then install said kit on a M1 carbine, does that carbine then become the weapon, or does the conversion parts retain a seperate identity by themself. Or do you have to register the weapon they would be installed upon, similar to registering an AR lower for a sbr gun??

Beryl
July 30, 2013, 15:30
i was sitting around wondering the other day, (a dangerous thing), if you were to aquire a registered m2 carbine conversion kit: i.e.-all parts as a unit, registered as a class III firearm; and then install said kit on a M1 carbine, does that carbine then become the weapon, or does the conversion parts retain a seperate identity by themself. Or do you have to register the weapon they would be installed upon, similar to registering an AR lower for a sbr gun??

I believe you have to modify the receiver to accept the F/A trip.

m60shooter
July 30, 2013, 15:52
I believe you have to modify the receiver to accept the F/A trip.

i'm not too familure with the m2 carbine conversion but in cases like a registered sear for a fnc or a mp5 the sear is the registered machinegun & the rifle is just a host, the rifle requires some modifications to accept the registered sear but it's still the sear that's the registered part. norrell mfg made 10/22 registered conversion trigger groups that could be put in any 10/22 rifle & make it full auto. it's good in that if you wear the gun out you can drop the group in a new 10/22 & start all over. some mp5's had the sear MARRIED to the gun, that's a whole story in itself. one must be cautious & be aware of all ATF rules on some things...

Artful
July 30, 2013, 17:51
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np_pQyC22Pg

Although actual M2 production began late in the war (April 1945), US Ordnance issued T17 and T18 field conversion part kits to allow field conversion of semi-auto M1 carbines to the selective-fire M2 configuration. These converted M1/M2 select-fire carbines saw limited combat service in Europe, primarily during the final Allied advance into Germany. In the Pacific, both converted and original M2 carbines saw limited use in the last days of the fighting in the Philippines.

No additional machine work was required to do the conversion in the field.

greenpeas
July 30, 2013, 18:46
The receiver is the registered part. I don't think I've ever heard of a registered sear for an m2. Sometimes people use the term "registered" in a misleading way to sell things. Unless that kit comes with a form3 or a form4 which involves an nfa tax, your not gonna be able to go full auto legally.

littlehoot
July 30, 2013, 19:23
simply having all the m2 parts in one location constitues a machine gun. the parts kits are sometimes offered for sale, registered. I simply am wondering if installation (legally) into a carbine makes it so that said carbine would be listed in the registry and unable to be converted back to m1 only

Artful
July 30, 2013, 19:40
If the parts kit was registered as NFA item, it will be like a DIAS, if the receiver was registered then "IT" is the NFA item. As no requirement to modify M1 Carbine the host doesn't have to be married to the registered parts kit.

You can check easily enough if you look at the parts kit and it was registered then it will be stamped with a SN# or look at the Form 4 and see if the pprwrk matches the receiver SN# :D

DYNOMIKE
July 30, 2013, 23:39
A true M2 carbine would have to have been registered during the registration period.. There is a finite number that where and as such they demand a premium.. Those NOT registered are now contraband..

In most cases you can't simply "convert" and register a MACHINE GUN for legal transfer. NON registered or manufactured NFA can be bought/sold/transferred between dealers but NOT to individuals..

F/A sears (or trigger packs)) would have been registered (HK for example) but a CARBINE would be NO GO...

Artful
July 30, 2013, 23:53
Dyno have to disagree in part - have seen more than one registered M1 kit that was drop in and could be moved between hosts. As long as the conversion pack was registered on time, it is legal to own, and transfer to any other M1 carbine.

HK sears can be registered as well and moved between hosts just like the M1 Carbine kits. You can find the same with 10/22 conversion kits. The main requirement was to NOT have any modification done to the hosts. If you put in the trigger and did modifications (shorten the barrel, make the trigger pack on your HK pinned, etc) then when you removed the sear you had an illegal configuration of the host (SBR etc) that required a further tax stamp or marriage of the sear to the host.

Lot of M1's with round bolts, no NFA problem most M1's were converted after WW2 and used in Korea.

partisan50
July 31, 2013, 07:31
Dyno have to disagree in part - have seen more than one registered M1 kit that was drop in and could be moved between hosts. As long as the conversion pack was registered on time, it is legal to own, and transfer to any other M1 carbine.

Correct. Transferable M2 carbines can be registered in a couple of ways. RR or registered receiver or registered trigger pack. One part in the pack will have the serial number: slide, hammer, trigger housing, trip lever, disconnecter; and when installed the whole rifle becomes the machine gun. Yes, the pack can be moved from rifle to rifle and if the rifle has a short barrel it must be registered as a SBR for pack removal.

I bought a registered trigger pack as my first MG and I love blasting away with my M2.

Warbirds Custom Guns
July 31, 2013, 21:27
Oddly enough, this will be my next fun toy.
Cost for me will be way cheaper but then, I have a SOT 2 to play with.
I've seen a few registered M2 trigger packs & all of them had the serial number on the trigger housing.
It must be on F2, F3 or F4 & pre May 86 to be transferable.

The cost is nearly the same as a complete registered M2 marked receiver but, with the trigger pack you can always get a new M1 receiver if it wears out.

M-1 Carbines altered by substitution of M-2 kits to permit automatic fire are also machine guns.
Carbine receivers marked M-2 are machine guns, even though they may only be capable of semiautomatic fire.

Possession of an unregistered M-2 conversion kit, which consists of the following seven parts, constitutes possession of an unregistered NFA firearm; regardless of whether or not assembled;


You need 7 parts with a M2 trigger housing.
1. selector
2. selector spring
3. selector lever assembly
4. hammer
5. disconnector
6. disconnector spring
7. disconnector plunger




http://s8.postimg.org/kbuyxxtzp/m_2_carbine_conversion_trigger_pack.jpg (http://postimage.org/)






.

DYNOMIKE
July 31, 2013, 23:41
Dyno have to disagree in part - have seen more than one registered M1 kit that was drop in and could be moved between hosts. As long as the conversion pack was registered on time, it is legal to own, and transfer to any other M1 carbine.

HK sears can be registered as well and moved between hosts just like the M1 Carbine kits. You can find the same with 10/22 conversion kits. The main requirement was to NOT have any modification done to the hosts. If you put in the trigger and did modifications (shorten the barrel, make the trigger pack on your HK pinned, etc) then when you removed the sear you had an illegal configuration of the host (SBR etc) that required a further tax stamp or marriage of the sear to the host.

Lot of M1's with round bolts, no NFA problem most M1's were converted after WW2 and used in Korea.

Can and will gladly except responsibility for an error on my part..
That being said I was under the impression that the RECEIVER was the key element here..
I have no prob being wrong but it does bring up a confusing aspect of the rules..

littlehoot
August 01, 2013, 01:36
dyno, as i understand it, thats a common mistake with this particular issue, as there is NO functional difference in a m1 and m2 receiver. many m1s were converted to select fire, and then back again...and many were destined for conversion that never materialized

DYNOMIKE
August 01, 2013, 09:06
dyno, as i understand it, thats a common mistake with this particular issue, as there is NO functional difference in a m1 and m2 receiver. many m1s were converted to select fire, and then back again...and many were destined for conversion that never materialized

That would make sense. if the receiver/firearm (much like an HK for example) is made F/A by the trigger components only..

partisan50
August 01, 2013, 13:24
The M2 carbine is kind of an anomaly due to the fact that there is no modification or change to the receiver to make it a MG.