PDA

View Full Version : Have I gone to the dark side?


parallaxbill
July 20, 2013, 18:06
I used to make fun of Glocks for their odd looks and blocky feel but I shot my son's mid 90's Gen 2 17 really well and I knew it had left it's mark on my soul.
So today I purchased what appears to be an unfired (except by the factory) Gen 2 17 with original box and paperwork for $400.
Now I must state that I love my M&P 9, my FNX 45, my many other semi autos, revolvers etc. but I do feel great about this latest purchase. I'll be trying it out tomorrow to see ifit shoots as well as my son's 17.

BTW....My son's 17 recently broke the slide under the ejection port. I had been giving him Hell about his super reliable Glock fail, but I should mention his was a police trade in and Glock repaired it for nothing. I have heard this failure was usually a 20,000+ type of failure. I still pick on him about that. ;);)

He bought a 1911 today. So maybe he is the one stepping into the dark side. ;);)

ftierson
July 20, 2013, 18:35
I used to make fun of Glocks for their odd looks and blocky feel but I shot my son's mid 90's Gen 2 17 really well and I knew it had left it's mark on my soul.
So today I purchased what appears to be an unfired (except by the factory) Gen 2 17 with original box and paperwork for $400.
Now I must state that I love my M&P 9, my FNX 45, my many other semi autos, revolvers etc. but I do feel great about this latest purchase. I'll be trying it out tomorrow to see ifit shoots as well as my son's 17.

BTW....My son's 17 recently broke the slide under the ejection port. I had been giving him Hell about his super reliable Glock fail, but I should mention his was a police trade in and Glock repaired it for nothing. I have heard this failure was usually a 20,000+ type of failure. I still pick on him about that. ;);)

He bought a 1911 today. So maybe he is the one stepping into the dark side. ;);)

To be blunt, yes, you have gone over to the dark side.

Like you, I have (and shoot) many different handguns.

But the one that I carry is a Gen 2 Glock 17...

Just sayin'...

Forrest

ICU308
July 21, 2013, 06:56
:wink:
Nothing wrong with enjoying the best of many firearms ...
I shot HiPowers for years , but after experiencing a Glock 34 , I was hooked . Still shoot the HiPower , but I shoot the Glock much better , and more often .

MK ULTRA
July 21, 2013, 09:38
I used to make fun of Glocks for their odd looks and blocky feel but I shot my son's mid 90's Gen 2 17 really well and I knew it had left it's mark on my soul.
So today I purchased what appears to be an unfired (except by the factory) Gen 2 17 with original box and paperwork for $400.
Now I must state that I love my M&P 9, my FNX 45, my many other semi autos, revolvers etc. but I do feel great about this latest purchase. I'll be trying it out tomorrow to see ifit shoots as well as my son's 17.

BTW....My son's 17 recently broke the slide under the ejection port. I had been giving him Hell about his super reliable Glock fail, but I should mention his was a police trade in and Glock repaired it for nothing. I have heard this failure was usually a 20,000+ type of failure. I still pick on him about that. ;);)

He bought a 1911 today. So maybe he is the one stepping into the dark side. ;);)



No you just finally came to your senses.

Glocks have been tested to 250,000+ rounds with minimal small part breakage. They shoot well OOTB, are accurate, have excellent customer service, mags are cheap.

Only thing possibly better are older 220, 229 & 228 Sig's.

Bug Tussell
July 22, 2013, 17:35
When it looked like I was going to Afghanistan as a civilian worker I thought long and hard about what I would carry if given a chance... my decision was a G19 and an M4.

paulb2112
July 22, 2013, 20:29
Never thought I would but recently bought a gen3 17.

W.E.G.
July 22, 2013, 20:34
The G17 is a nice training gun.
Mine sees the most rounds.

The G22 is the one that gets carried daily though.

Yes, you CAN have both.

I have a nice 1911, but its been years since it left the safe.
Just too large, and too heavy, and too-little mag-capacity.
My S&W Model 39 has laid claim to my one remaining 1911 holster.

parallaxbill
July 23, 2013, 17:47
Guys, it shoots like a dream, just like my son's 17. I ran 4 mags through it and it shoots a tad left for me but puts all shots in a ragged hole at 15 yards, standing.

Will I buy another Glock? Maybe a G26 for my wife.

Will I sell my other hand guns? Not a damn chance! I love em all as long as they run consistantly and hit what I aim at. :):)

W.E.G.
July 23, 2013, 18:39
Get the sight-pusher tool.

I have the rear sight pushed all-the-way right on all my Glocks.

ftierson
July 23, 2013, 22:02
Get the sight-pusher tool.

I have the rear sight pushed all-the-way right on all my Glocks.

Do you shoot left handed with right eye dominance, Gary?

Forrest

W.E.G.
July 24, 2013, 06:31
I even shoot Airsoft left-side.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Glock/G17airsoft150shots_zps10956b27.jpg

rowjimmy
July 24, 2013, 07:37
Glocks shoot left. I don't know why.

W.E.G.
July 24, 2013, 08:32
Glocks shoot left. I don't know why.

I think its because I'm "hung left."

Although, it shouldn't matter because I've got such small hands.

"Aim small, miss small."

brunop
July 24, 2013, 23:35
Glocks shoot left. I don't know why.

Is it because right-eyed shooters 'favor' a little more light on one side of the front sight than the other - and Glocks have big square front posts that don't allow a person to 'register' how much error they have in alignment?


Look at a 1911 - smaller post-width in comparison to most rear sight notches: a person can (if they take the time) see the relative right/left alignment easier, I think.


I'm guessing it isn't that Glock's mechanically shoot left: they have the same straight tube as other handguns. I think it must be the sights and the way they set up for the majority of shooters.

parallaxbill
July 25, 2013, 06:17
One observation I made when comparing my son's G17 with mine is that his front sight is a little narrower and has a slightly smaller white dot than mine has. I can barely get any light gap around the front sight on mine. It makes it a little more difficult to pick up proper sight alignment for me.

Maybe there is something to that.

W.E.G.
July 25, 2013, 06:21
Is it because right-eyed shooters 'favor' a little more light on one side of the front sight than the other...

Interesting.

And there I was thinking it was a "cant" issue.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Glock/gangster-grip-300x240_zps8e480108.jpg

ftierson
July 25, 2013, 10:12
Interesting.

And there I was thinking it was a "cant" issue.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Glock/gangster-grip-300x240_zps8e480108.jpg

:)

Forrest

rowjimmy
July 25, 2013, 15:16
Is it because right-eyed shooters 'favor' a little more light on one side of the front sight than the other - and Glocks have big square front posts that don't allow a person to 'register' how much error they have in alignment?


Look at a 1911 - smaller post-width in comparison to most rear sight notches: a person can (if they take the time) see the relative right/left alignment easier, I think.


I'm guessing it isn't that Glock's mechanically shoot left: they have the same straight tube as other handguns. I think it must be the sights and the way they set up for the majority of shooters.

Interesting premise, you may be right. I don't do it with a 1911.

However, I have Tru Glo TFO's on my Glock and the front sight post allows for a little light through on each side.

It is not possible there is an inherent feature in the Glock's mechanics that cause this?

Story
July 25, 2013, 16:35
Interesting.

And there I was thinking it was a "cant" issue.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Glock/gangster-grip-300x240_zps8e480108.jpg

This joke never gets old.

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/images/nyte-sytes.jpg


Meanwhile, in the ATL...
http://money.msn.com/now/post--glock-guns-hit-the-bulls-eye-with-us-cops

0750turbo
August 01, 2013, 13:00
I'm a long gun guy and own many more than my wife thinks I should. I've only owned one handgun in my entire life and for about the last 20 years it has been a Gen 2 Glock 17. Does everything I've ever needed it to do.

Cruel Hand Luke
August 07, 2013, 17:05
ParalaxBill and WEG, I feel your pain....Glocks shoot left for me too. It is a simple matter of the way my hand mates to the the pistol. If they are all going through the same hole but to the left (not LOW and left, but just left) then you just need to tap the sight over a tiny bit. If they go LOW and left then it is a matter of trigger control. If your off hand groups look like like they were shot in a ransom rest then your trigger is not the problem...the sights need to be adjusted.

For MOST right handed people who are not accomplished pistol shooters, when they pull a hinged trigger (like on a glock) they tend to pull the gun off target low and to the left. Bullet impact is most often at 7 or 8 o'clock on the target. If you have an educated trigger finger and a bit of trigger control the bullets will go where the sights were pointed.

The issue is that not everyone's hand is shaped exactly the same and not everyone grips the gun the same. So the sights ,while centered on the slide, may not be exactly centered with the bullet impact point when YOUR hand is the one attached to the grip and pressing the trigger. If your trigger press is good, but the bullets are impacting left (elevation is dead on but windage is an inch or less to the left) then trigger press is not your problem. The sights need to be moved.

One other possible issue is depending on how you grip the pistol, your index finger may actually be pushing the frame slightly left as you press the trigger. The muscle between your first and second joint of your index finger is like a little bicep. When you curl your finger that muscle flexes and pushes the frame to the left (for a right handed shooter) if that muscle is resting against the frame before the trigger is pressed. That COULD be the issue. But it is hard to diagnose minute grip issues over the web.....

rowjimmy
August 07, 2013, 17:37
ParalaxBill and WEG, I feel your pain....Glocks shoot left for me too. It is a simple matter of the way my hand mates to the the pistol. If they are all going through the same hole but to the left (not LOW and left, but just left) then you just need to tap the sight over a tiny bit. If they go LOW and left then it is a matter of trigger control. If your off hand groups look like like they were shot in a ransom rest then your trigger is not the problem...the sights need to be adjusted.

For MOST right handed people who are not accomplished pistol shooters, when they pull a hinged trigger (like on a glock) they tend to pull the gun off target low and to the left. Bullet impact is most often at 7 or 8 o'clock on the target. If you have an educated trigger finger and a bit of trigger control the bullets will go where the sights were pointed.

The issue is that not everyone's hand is shaped exactly the same and not everyone grips the gun the same. So the sights ,while centered on the slide, may not be exactly centered with the bullet impact point when YOUR hand is the one attached to the grip and pressing the trigger. If your trigger press is good, but the bullets are impacting left (elevation is dead on but windage is an inch or less to the left) then trigger press is not your problem. The sights need to be moved.

One other possible issue is depending on how you grip the pistol, your index finger may actually be pushing the frame slightly left as you press the trigger. The muscle between your first and second joint of your index finger is like a little bicep. When you curl your finger that muscle flexes and pushes the frame to the left (for a right handed shooter) if that muscle is resting against the frame before the trigger is pressed. That COULD be the issue. But it is hard to diagnose minute grip issues over the web.....

My technique is flawless, yet my Glock still shoots left.

Cruel Hand Luke
August 07, 2013, 18:25
My technique is flawless, yet my Glock still shoots left.

Then tap the sight to the right and go forth and put bullets where your sight is pointed.

I get people all the time who say that the sights need to be centered. They say it is the shooter's trigger press causing the impact to the left. But they are SOMETIMES wrong. Easy way to test is to do dryfire with a piece of .223 brass UPSIDE DOWN on the slide. If you can hold that steady and press the trigger without it knocking the structurally unsound (base smaller than the top) brass off the slide then it TRULY is NOT the shooter pulling it to the left.

At that point, grab your sight pusher or a punch and hammer and move the sight. I had a guy come to class who was an excellent shooter already. He had been to EIGHT different professional instructors. NONE had been able to help him stop shooting to the left with a glock. He shot about 1" to the left at 5 yards. They were not low and left...they were simply left.

I checked out his grip, and it was fine. After about 2 hours of drills I went to his end of the line and asked if I could shoot his pistol. I fired a 5 shot group holding dead center on the center of the 3" circle they were shooting and my 5 shot group went in the exact same ragged hole he had been shooting. His group was all touching each other...just 3/4 to 1 inch LEFT of the aiming point. That evening after class we bumped his rear sight a little to the right and on Sunday his rounds all went exactly where he was pointing the sights. He asked how I knew it was the sights and not him and I said "Simple...I have the same problem". I showed him my Glock with the rear sight moved to the right ......

Now I do not suggest that as a fix unless we are SURE that it is not the shooter. And honestly ...for the vast majority of folks they need to work on trigger finger not move the sights. But if they are all going in the same hole and it is not LOW, just LEFT, then move the sights. If it is low then it IS the shooter...if it is just left but looks like it was shot from a rest because they are all touching each other then the sights need to be moved.

rowjimmy
August 07, 2013, 23:27
Then tap the sight to the right and go forth and put bullets where your sight is pointed.

....

My rear sight has been drifted to the right about 6 years. :biggrin:

rowjimmy
August 07, 2013, 23:29
.... If it is low then it IS the shooter...if it is just left but looks like it was shot from a rest because they are all touching each other then the sights need to be moved.

In fairness, sometimes shooting low is from heeling the gun, gripping to firmly with you right palm. But I agree, it's usually trigger control.

W.E.G.
August 08, 2013, 07:55
What is this "heeling" the gun?

Is that something like "laying on hands?"
Is the gun divine after the ceremony?

...or is it something more mundane like one of the techniques used in this draw?

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/animated/gunnut.gif

rowjimmy
August 08, 2013, 08:34
It's having a really tight grip with your right hand, where the palm is pushing against the backstrap of the pistol. In anticipating the recoil, you push the gun down and shoot low. At least that's my understanding. Your grip should be mostly the web of your hand and middle finger.

Where the hell do you find these videos? :rofl:

Cruel Hand Luke
August 08, 2013, 13:34
In the part you quoted I was referring to rounds going low AND left- impacting at 7 o'clock on the target. And if they are jerking the trigger rarely will those all go in the same hole. The original issue was about impact to the left by right handed shooters. If they are ALL going left and in the same ragged hole, then moving the sight is needed.

Heeling or anticipating recoil is a real possibility if they are going low ONLY (impacting at 6 o'clock on the target) but for most people shooting low and left it is jerking the trigger causing that.

Guy-epic
August 08, 2013, 13:44
I own a new gen 4 17, it is a love hate relationship. I can shoot many other pistols a lot better. With that said I made adjustments to my grip on the Glock and now I am very well with it. My only issue is I have to hold and shoot it very different then other pistols. This is due to the light weight lower and the way the recoil jerks the pistol in your hand. This is well documented and there are many articles on how to correct the issue. I only wish I did not have to change over 20 years of a shooting style to make it work well.

rowjimmy
August 08, 2013, 16:12
In the part you quoted I was referring to rounds going low AND left- impacting at 7 o'clock on the target. And if they are jerking the trigger rarely will those all go in the same hole. The original issue was about impact to the left by right handed shooters. If they are ALL going left and in the same ragged hole, then moving the sight is needed.

Heeling or anticipating recoil is a real possibility if they are going low ONLY (impacting at 6 o'clock on the target) but for most people shooting low and left it is jerking the trigger causing that.

I agree completely, my apologies if I wasn't clear in this regard.

shlomo
August 08, 2013, 16:17
Your grip should be mostly the web of your hand and middle finger.


I knew that some day we'd find common ground about plastic nines. :devil: :rofl:

gates
August 08, 2013, 22:59
Heh - my "technic" is flawless as well and the gun (G23 Gen 1) prints exactly where I point it - my problem is that it beats the shit out of the base of my thumb to the point I have to stop shooting it for a week or two for the pain to go away - (I was putting several hundred rds thru it a week when I was shooting a lot). It's still my primary CCW gun because of the muscle memory I developed - but it is an UNPLEASANT gun to shoot in .40 when you are in your 40's - I shoot my .45's equally well without the pain. Just took a Springer Micro 1911 out yesterday - one hole groups at 21' offhand - no pain today:-) I'm a right handed shooter left eye dominant - I tilt my head.

rowjimmy
August 09, 2013, 10:50
... one hole groups at 21' offhand - no pain today:-) I'm a right handed shooter left eye dominant - I tilt my head.


No flyers?

shlomo
August 09, 2013, 12:34
No flyers?

Cold, dude. Just cold.

ftierson
August 09, 2013, 13:44
Cold, dude. Just cold.

:)

Forrest

Guy-epic
August 09, 2013, 14:22
Heh - my "technic" is flawless as well and the gun (G23 Gen 1) prints exactly where I point it - my problem is that it beats the shit out of the base of my thumb to the point I have to stop shooting it for a week or two for the pain to go away - (I was putting several hundred rds thru it a week when I was shooting a lot). It's still my primary CCW gun because of the muscle memory I developed - but it is an UNPLEASANT gun to shoot in .40 when you are in your 40's - I shoot my .45's equally well without the pain. Just took a Springer Micro 1911 out yesterday - one hole groups at 21' offhand - no pain today:-) I'm a right handed shooter left eye dominant - I tilt my head.

Just wondering what is your " technic" exactly?

gates
August 09, 2013, 17:21
Flawless :D

gates
August 09, 2013, 17:22
Yeah I get "flyers" - when I'm not flawless, which covers about 1/2 a mag depending on what I'm shooting:bow: geeze - one comment about a "minute of second" garand and a guy is tainted for life - rough crowd up here...:-)

rowjimmy
August 09, 2013, 22:34
Yeah I get "flyers" - when I'm not flawless, which covers about 1/2 a mag depending on what I'm shooting:bow: geeze - one comment about a "minute of second" garand and a guy is tainted for life - rough crowd up here...:-)

We love you Gates (in a platonic, non-gay kinda way).

You need thick skin in this place, I learned that right quick.

gates
August 09, 2013, 22:49
Bro I've been here so long I have HIDE - skin was so 2005:-)

JohnnyReb
August 16, 2013, 22:07
YUP LOVE the 17

parallaxbill
August 17, 2013, 17:27
I need to drift my rear sight to the right to correct it. One of my buddies who shoots pretty much like I do also shot to the left the same as I did yesteday. Elevation perfect at 15 yards, nice tight groups but about 1.5" left consistantly.

Great gun though, lots of fun to shoot.:)

gates
August 18, 2013, 17:19
You can't shoot someone outside of 21' in AZ and claim self defense unless they have a gat - according to the CCW class i took - I practice at 25m for marksmanship but I spend ALL my PRACTICAL time at 21'. I helped teach a CCW class where I was making consistent head shots on a B-27 at 50 yards, off hand:D true story! With a G23.

rowjimmy
August 18, 2013, 21:54
You can't shoot someone outside of 21' in AZ and claim self defense unless they have a gat - according to the CCW class i took - I practice at 25m for marksmanship but I spend ALL my PRACTICAL time at 21'. I helped teach a CCW class where I was making consistent head shots on a B-27 at 50 yards, off hand:D true story! With a G23.

That's good shooting. You should get involved in some IDPA and USPSA for shits and giggles. I think shooting sports are big in AZ.

gates
August 20, 2013, 00:04
Meh - I've done some IDPA and a little Tuesday night steel at Rio Salado, standing still and shooting well does not translate to MOVING and shooting well - different skill sets but you know that:-) Don't have the time right now to develop the latter.

Skilter
August 23, 2013, 16:23
Gen 3 G19 hands down the gun if I had only one... barrels suppressors and such...

G29 is my favorite carry though... It is a handful, but with training it really has it all assuming you have a car or briefcase. Pretty heavy to carry all day...

To carry... the 26 in in a sticky holster.

Mexican Sweat and a couple rubber bands on the grip (nothing in the chamber, flame on :) )... it is a 17 all day long at the house. The 17L is a beautiful piece of work.

STGThndr
September 01, 2013, 23:45
Yes, like myself, you have gone to the Dark Sied. I have fallen from the grace of 1911, the Truth by which all defensive handguns are measured. How did this happen???
Well, my own fall from 1911 grace began when I had traded myself down to a Wilson-ised Combat Commander 70 series. I soon found that she was far too fine and far too valuable to carry....on a regular basis. This discomfited me greatly! Then as things will do... a pal who ran a gunshop here in town happened to have- oh fickle Fate!- one afternoon when I strolled into his shop- a Glock- oh fiend of plastic!- 21 .45acp. When fully packed and loaded, a whopping !14! rounds of .45 acp! Tho it sorely grieved me to part with 450 bucks with the old woman with me at the time! I did buy this 21 Glock and do great sin thereby.
This sukka stays at my bedside and accompianies me into the woods... Havent even fondled the Wilsonised lass... In closing, I paid less for the Glock 21 (a barely used SORT Team trade-in) last January than I did for the Colt Combat Commander 14 years ago!
I freely admit my guilt and cannot offer any good reason for doing what I did... May the Colonel have mercy upon me- I know that Gaston will have none...

792mauser
December 01, 2013, 03:36
I found myself the only Glock that I can stand finally. A Glock 17L. It has become my new favorite 9mm auto loader.
I own more 1911 style handguns than anything else and love 'em, but just fell in love with the 17L.
I had 3 .40 23s pass through my hands in as many years, but couldn't seem to hold onto em.