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J MOSBY
February 22, 2013, 08:08
Am looking at some available at a reasonable price but concerned about carry method. Do you keep one in the chamber with no decocker?

meltblown
February 22, 2013, 08:23
Yes. An unchambered pistol is just wrong.

SPEEDGUNNER
February 22, 2013, 08:34
Glock "SAFE ACTION" pistols are designed to be carried with one in the pipe. As long as you don't hook the trigger by snagging on some clothing while holstering or by being careless it isn't going to go off.

J MOSBY
February 22, 2013, 08:39
Please bear with me but I'm having some trouble being comfortable with a cocked hammer behind a chambered round. What do I need to know?

Aeroscout
February 22, 2013, 08:49
Please bear with me but I'm having some trouble being comfortable with a cocked hammer behind a chambered round. What do I need to know?

Striker fired....hammer....or more accurately...the firing pin does not "cock" until you pull the trigger.

meltblown
February 22, 2013, 08:52
Although i am not a big fan of plastic pistols. Glocks are supposed to be the best system out there for personal defense

olgier
February 22, 2013, 09:09
Please bear with me but I'm having some trouble being comfortable with a cocked hammer behind a chambered round. What do I need to know?

Pretend it's a semi auto revolver.

It's always loaded, but doesn't go BANG until you pull the trigger.

Don't carry it in a pocket with anything else. Make sure your holster completely covers the trigger/guard.

If it goes BANG unexpectedly, it's because you or something else pushed/pulled the trigger back. (for that to happen something has to be in the trigger guard because the center section of the trigger has to be depressed to actually pull the trigger back to fire)

J MOSBY
February 22, 2013, 09:11
Striker fired....hammer....or more accurately...the firing pin does not "cock" until you pull the trigger.

Then they are double action?

meltblown
February 22, 2013, 09:24
Here is a good explanation

http://eu.glock.com/english/pistols_adv01.htm

Jolly Rodgers
February 22, 2013, 10:45
I carry my Glock 17 in an IWB Kydex holster with a full mag, but no round in the chamber.

This means I will not be able to pull it quick draw and fire instantaneously. It will take me a couple extra seconds to rack the slide before I can get on target and pull the trigger. I understand the compromise I've made and the implications.

The way I figure it, I'm still miles ahead of the person who has to drive home and open their safe to deploy their handgun, though there are still situations where things will happen too quickly for me to bring it to bear. Part of the reason I choose this way is that I don't have the training and practice necessary to effectively and safely engage in quick draw fashion. Some day I may be able to rectify that shortcoming, but until then, I'm sacrificing a bit of speed in trade for a bit of caution.

kev
February 22, 2013, 13:29
When loaded, the Glock is always on 'half-cock'. It can't fire from that position. Pulling the trigger brings the striker the rest of the way back and releases it. You can't have a decocker either since there's no way for the gun to be truly 'uncocked', short of snapping the pin on an empty chamber. As soon as the slide cycles(manually or in recoil)the gun is back at half-cock.

It's a very safe system assuming you know better than to wander around with your finger on the trigger and any holster you use has a fully covered trigger AND it's sturdy enough that no part of the holster will ever enter the trigger guard. Seems that many Glock AD/ND's are holster induced,............jamming a loaded Glock into a flimsy or worn leather holster. I like the Kydex holsters for that reason when using anything with a Glock-style trigger,...........my Sigmas, the late Steyrs, etc.

acolonelofcorn
February 22, 2013, 13:37
clenched between my buttcheeks.

LaConservationist
February 22, 2013, 16:29
clenched between my buttcheeks.
^^^^THIS^^^^
With one in the PIPE!! :cool:

emcroy
February 22, 2013, 17:35
I can't they keep slipping out of my hands:rofl:

Seriously, I have carried a Glock 17 in a Blade Tech Kydex inside the waist band holster for years with one in the chamber and I havn't shot my ass yet!

J. Armstrong
February 22, 2013, 17:43
Please bear with me but I'm having some trouble being comfortable with a cocked hammer behind a chambered round. What do I need to know?

In other words, you aren't carrying a 1911 or BHP :)

J MOSBY
February 22, 2013, 18:02
I understood the BHP, I don't understand the Glock. OK, half cocked, how about length of pull and weight of pull. Now my freind just got one but he's as uninformed as I am. Keeping the chamber empty. Are they difficult to disassemble? If not we can shoot it, take it apart and maby get confidence in it.

spider991
February 22, 2013, 18:23
glock is one of the easiest pistols to disassemble and clean...the trigger pull will be the same length and pull everytime... dryfire-of course after you have done all the unloading and safety checks to make sure the pistol is empty...dryfire will not hurt the glock and you will get used to the trigger. with teh glock safe action, carrying one in the chamber is perfectly safe...dont pull the trigger, it wont shoot...cant be easier...be safe, get some good training(key to success) and you will really enjoy the gun.

J MOSBY
February 22, 2013, 19:08
Thanks to everybody! Now for some high quality (self) training.

meltblown
February 22, 2013, 19:16
Since you are so worried Maybe carry a 1911 kimber or colt. I have a 3 inch kimber a love it. Keep the hammer down.

Skilter
February 22, 2013, 21:51
I am going to get sh*t for this, but usually...

full mag, nothing in the chamber... no holster, IWB.

I think people call this the "mexican sweat" method.

flame on...

FUUN063
February 23, 2013, 11:07
It's a very safe method of carry (one in the chmber) in a Glock. I carry this way daily and have for many, many years. It's comes down to discipline and parctice. Finger off the trigger until ready to fire. Finger safe, finger trigger, finger fire. Front sight discipline. Practice, good practice will round out this type of carry.

And, Jolly, it will not take "a couple of extra seconds" as you state to rack the slide. Practice this and you can get it down near a second with a round off on target out to the 15 yard line. We do it at every qualification, including with a jam or dud in the mag. Honestly try it. Practice it.

And, as far as simplicity in tear down for cleaning, my daughter can strip it and put it back together in less than 1 1/2 minutes with a function check. And that's only after trying it a few times. I can take it completely down and completely back together in about 2 minutes without even trying hard. These are very simple pistols that are proven, but they are not perfect. Practice. Good luck.

Leland
:fal:

JB Books
February 23, 2013, 11:17
always carry with a round chambered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syxrpLbaEuY

L Haney
February 23, 2013, 12:25
Never carry with a round chambered. 1911 or Gluck. I can stroke the slide during the draw so fast it ain't worth the brain sweat to have one in the pipe.

But you don't get to that point easy or quickly. Sort of like playing the Met...

acolonelofcorn
February 23, 2013, 13:40
If you are incapable of keeping your finger off the trigger, just keep it unloaded in the safe like a good citizen.

An empty gun for an empty head.

Timber Wolf
February 25, 2013, 11:57
When I carry my G23 it is fully loaded in a horsehide Cross Breed Supertuck. I have trained & practiced and am OK with a chambered round in a quality holster. Just as I would be on any pistol with DAO, DA/SA, and striker fired action. I am less comfortable with a SA only gun carried cocked-and-locked but will do so as long as it is in a holster with a strip of something under hammer. I have thumb-break holsters that allow this. I previously carried a G27 but sold it in favor of a XDsc that then turned into a XDm 3.8C. The XDish grip fits my hand better, and I am more confident with the XDm grip one-handed. I shot the G27 fine but always felt like I was “bobbling” the gun or shifting my grip with the gun held one-handed. I do not have that issue with the XD, and to the point of this thread, the XD has a grip safety. I had no issues while carrying a Glock and will carry one again. The grip safety on the XD guns may make no practical difference but I am more comfortable carrying one because of this feature. Just carry the Glock loaded to the gills and keep your fingure out of the trigger guard until ready to shoot. And for sure keep it out while re-holstering!

DJ60
February 25, 2013, 19:36
When I carry my G23 it is fully loaded in a horsehide Cross Breed Supertuck. I have trained & practiced and am OK with a chambered round in a quality holster. Just as I would be on any pistol with DAO, DA/SA, and striker fired action.!

+1 on the Horsehide Crossbreed Supertuck. Good retention, great comfort, and great concealment. Outstanding customer service. One always in the pipe--it's no more likely to go off in your holster than it is in your safe. Just go carefully into the holster to make sure the trigger isn't catching on anything, and it will stay there snug and ready until a bad guy shows up or bedtime, whichever comes first.

Tibodoe
February 26, 2013, 00:19
Glock 23 here. I carry with one in the chamber. I make it a point of
absolute discipline to watch the gun as I holster it. Other than a snag
while holstering it is very difficult to AD.

4x401
February 26, 2013, 00:19
I carry my Glock Loaded, in condition 1.

Simply because blind date's don't favor bitches that show up in glasses, sweaters, & ankle length skirts.:]

KBAR04
February 26, 2013, 07:44
I've been around Glocks since the 80s but have only recently started carrying one myself. I carry it with a round in the pipe. I treat it as if its a revolver. It is really faster into action than anything else Ive used. I was initially trained (i.e. ruined) on the Browning HP and these were carried with an empty chamber. I still tend to do this with the Browning.

Good holsters are essential to any concealed carry. When I was in Afghanistan in 2002 my buddy was an officer in the Norwegian Army...in garrison (Khandahar), he would carry his issue Glock 17 stuck in the back of his DCU trousers sans holster. I know he carried it with a round in the pipe because he handed it to me once and I cleared it. To my knowledge he survived the war unscathed...

Jailguard
February 26, 2013, 10:39
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bTalnzcO0xk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Seriously I carry with one in the pipe in a good holster just practice when you draw not to put your finger on the trigger until ready to shoot. Remember under stress fine motor skills go out the window so practice until it become muscle memory.

homelandprotector
February 26, 2013, 11:11
Load that chamber bitch! :cool:

http://imageshack.us/a/img850/9660/2ptdts1.jpg

emcroy
February 28, 2013, 21:42
Never carry with a round chambered. 1911 or Gluck. I can stroke the slide during the draw so fast it ain't worth the brain sweat to have one in the pipe.

But you don't get to that point easy or quickly. Sort of like playing the Met...

Nothing personal, but this is one of the most idiotic statements I`ve read in a while!

Aeroscout
February 28, 2013, 23:47
Nothing personal, but this is one of the most idiotic statements I`ve read in a while!

That's how the Israeli Mossad do it.....they must be idiots too.

gaijinsamurai
March 01, 2013, 08:30
I've carried Glock 22s, 23s, 30s, and 19s with a round chambered for years, never a problem.

gunplumber
March 01, 2013, 08:35
Please bear with me but I'm having some trouble being comfortable with a cocked hammer behind a chambered round. What do I need to know?

You need to know that pulling the trigger makes the gun go bang. Not pulling the trigger prevents the gun from going bang.



So I'm driving down an undivided highway at 65 mph. On the other side of the road, traffic is also going 65 miles an hour. If I turn the wheel into oncoming traffic, I will die and probably kill whoever is on the other side of the road.

I don't stay up late at night worrying about it. I just don't do it.

This is a much more complicated task than not pulling the trigger on the Glock, because if I do nothing, the car might drift into oncoming traffic, based on castor and camber and road conditions. I may have to make frequent adjustments to the wheel to avoid death. The Glock is much easier. It just sits in the holster. It has no tendency to fire by itself. I have to pull the trigger.

If you can't get your head wrapped around this concept, then you shouldn't be handling ANY gun. It doesn't matter what kind of gun it is. Pull trigger, gun goes bang. Therefore: 1. Assume it is loaded. 2. don't point at anyone you don't want to shoot. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot. 4. Know what you're shooting at, and what's behind it.

It seems to be number three you are having trouble with, and the only answer to that is to take up a safer hobby, like knitting. Oh, wait, what if you stab yourself in the eye with the needle?

KJG produced a short safety video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7VXa7gRFC8&list=UUga3rJJR-1yyl9C5AvRTy4w&index=2

gunplumber
March 01, 2013, 08:40
That's how the Israeli Mossad do it.....they must be idiots too.

I trained on that method in Israel, using the BHP. It is a relatively quick way for someone with 2 available hands to put a gun into operation. It is FAR slower than carrying the gun as it was originally designed. I never got a clear answer on why the Israelis were using this stupid method, but the best answer I could get was that weapons retention was the main issue and this prevented one who snatched the weapon from putting it into operation. I think this is a pretty stupid "reason" and it was the best any of my liaisons could come up with (Sayaret Tz'khanim).

gunplumber
March 01, 2013, 08:43
Load that chamber bitch! :cool:

http://imageshack.us/a/img850/9660/2ptdts1.jpg

IMO the Serpa is about the WORST holster for this concept, as one's finger is already pressing in and its natural progression is to enter the trigger guard on the draw stroke. I've also seen them non-functional here in the desert with microgravel (big sand) gets under the button.

As to the original question, I assumed it was condition of carry, not mechanism of carry, but if the latter . . .

Prefer Desantis Viper (thumbreak, OWB, FBI cant), but Galco has a similar one. For IWB, a summer special from Galco. When ninjad up, I keep either in my #6 ammo pouch, a full flap UM 84 Bianchi (it is a secondary), or voodoo tactical thigh drop rig.

L Haney
March 01, 2013, 10:00
Nothing personal, but this is one of the most idiotic statements I`ve read in a while!

Left out the "I" in front of 'never'.

I have no problem with how anyone else wants to carry. I used to carry with one up the spout, but I don't any more.

The other change now that I'm older is I'll put it in my hand much earlier than I used to.

Aeroscout
March 01, 2013, 21:31
I trained on that method in Israel, using the BHP. It is a relatively quick way for someone with 2 available hands to put a gun into operation. It is FAR slower than carrying the gun as it was originally designed. I never got a clear answer on why the Israelis were using this stupid method, but the best answer I could get was that weapons retention was the main issue and this prevented one who snatched the weapon from putting it into operation. I think this is a pretty stupid "reason" and it was the best any of my liaisons could come up with (Sayaret Tz'khanim).

I don't use this particular method...I also carry with a round chambered. However I do not think the method to be stupid.

It's all a matter of "Train how you are going to fight".

The point being......it ain't about the method....its about the training and most people (myself included) don't do enough of it.

Pick a method and train yourself to a standard using it and when the moment of truth comes you will be prepared.

Regardless of method chosen, if you don't train with it you loose.

aardq
March 02, 2013, 00:01
The Glock is probably the safest pistol to carry. For many years I carried a 1911 or a BHP, always with one in the chamber, and have no problem with my 36 loaded and ready.

Dan

0302
March 02, 2013, 00:06
round chambered in a wilderness zip slide, keep it simple

http://www.thewilderness.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=170&pg=1

JeffJ
March 02, 2013, 08:58
I am not as fast as LHaney, I always carry with one chambered. If you really ever "need" that gun, you might need it in a hurry.

gunplumber
March 02, 2013, 08:59
I don't use this particular method...I also carry with a round chambered. However I do not think the method to be stupid.

It's all a matter of "Train how you are going to fight".

The point being......it ain't about the method....its about the training and most people (myself included) don't do enough of it.

Pick a method and train yourself to a standard using it and when the moment of truth comes you will be prepared.

Regardless of method chosen, if you don't train with it you loose.

It is true that through trainig, one can make a poor technique "fast" - just look at that magpul guy and his contortionist magazine changes. But I don't see the point. So until someone can give me a reasoned "why", I think it is stupid. I think it is dogma driving training. I have no sacred cows.

rochte
March 02, 2013, 09:04
KJG produced a short safety video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7VXa7gRFC8&list=UUga3rJJR-1yyl9C5AvRTy4w&index=2

LOL... I love it! Should be mandatory training for Feds! :bow:

L Haney
March 02, 2013, 09:32
I am not as fast as LHaney, I always carry with one chambered. If you really ever "need" that gun, you might need it in a hurry.

I'm not trying to convert anyone, or even suggest what I do is in any fashion 'better'. I'm comfortable with what I do.

The mechanics of draw, charge and aim are just a drill. This can be practiced until it requires no more thought than 'Go'.

This culminates in what is beyond when that completes. If I see the 'front' of my antagonist at that point in time, he gets shot. If I'm looking at his fleeing back, I have more time to make a decision.

Is my method slower? Almost certainly. I'd wager it adds at least a half second.

Another question that seems to come up a lot among people who carry on a regular basis. "Would you draw on someone who was already pointing a weapon at you?"

Absolutely. What do I have to lose?

I'm also not aware of any requirement that I stand motionless while doing so.

These are all opinions, we all have one. I suggest each individual adopt what works for them.

gunplumber
March 02, 2013, 09:38
"Speed" is a function of economy of movement.

The less movements required to complete a task, the faster the operator will be. That one with more practice at a more complicated technique, is faster at that moment, then one less practiced at a simpler technique, is what keeps poor techniques afloat.

I learned this making burritos for taco bell when i was 16. Economy of movement.

JeffJ
March 02, 2013, 10:06
I am certainly no expert, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express...and go to a defensive handgun class the next day.

The basics were.
1-Always have one in the chamber.
2-Always keep some distance, use your non shooting hand to fend off while backing and circling to see the accomplices (most assaults involve multiple assailants forgot number but something like 80%).
3-Most assaults happen within 3 feet, 3 seconds and involve 3 shots...

In short, it happens real fast and furious...

L Haney
March 02, 2013, 10:13
2-Always keep some distance, use your non shooting hand to fend off while backing and circling to see the accomplices (most assaults involve multiple assailants forgot number but something like 80%).


NO! Not for me. I'm gonna' close aggressively. If we're at that point in a confrontation. I'm driving and I'll be damned if I let the other guy get in charge. I ain't "fending" shit, I'm in the process of killing a predator. What are you going to "fend off" with your free hand, a bullet?

You're right about one thing, it'll happen fast.

JeffJ
March 02, 2013, 10:29
I ain't "fending" shit, I'm in the process of killing a predator. What are you going to "fend off" with your free hand, a bullet?

You're right about one thing, it'll happen fast.

Actually, yes, bullet or knife..better the hand than the vitals...same was taught in CQB knife class, non dominant hand/forearm is shield for vitals. But with knife was taught to close quickly not back and circle...


Thinking is with a pistol you need some distance to pull/fire.
Like I said I am no expert..this is what they imparted to me.

emcroy
March 07, 2013, 21:39
"Speed" is a function of economy of movement.

The less movements required to complete a task, the faster the operator will be. That one with more practice at a more complicated technique, is faster at that moment, then one less practiced at a simpler technique, is what keeps poor techniques afloat.

I learned this making burritos for taco bell when i was 16. Economy of movement.

Amen,

This is how the game is played!

I can't understand why one would want to handicap themselves, but at least they are carrying the damn thing!

falcom
March 07, 2013, 22:09
If you have a hard shelled holster that protects the trigger, carry it with a round in the chamber. If you stick it in your blue jean waistband.- no round in the chamber. 29 years of carrying one for work everyday makes me an expert.

gunplumber
March 08, 2013, 09:57
If you have a hard shelled holster that protects the trigger, carry it with a round in the chamber. If you stick it in your blue jean waistband.- no round in the chamber. 29 years of carrying one for work everyday makes me an expert.

If you're sticking it your waistband (sans holster) then you're an idiot. Doing it stupid for 20 years does not make you an expert, it makes you an experienced fool.

falcom
March 08, 2013, 14:12
If you're sticking it your waistband (sans holster) then you're an idiot. Doing it stupid for 20 years does not make you an expert, it makes you an experienced fool.

Building thousands of FALS in your shop makes you an expert- at that- nothing else.

gunplumber
March 08, 2013, 14:29
Building thousands of FALS in your shop makes you an expert- at that- nothing else.

Sticking a gun in your waistband, Mexican carry, makes you an idiot. Nothing else.

acolonelofcorn
March 08, 2013, 14:50
Sticking a gun in your waistband, Mexican carry, makes you an idiot. Nothing else.

I carried a Long barreled .44 Magnum stuck in my waistband a few times, but it was a nut crusher when you sat down. :]

Fn/form
March 09, 2013, 10:37
There are enough incidents involving hand incapacitation or preoccupation to give any reasonable person second thoughts about carrying with an empty chamber.

There are holster options for every clothed or unclothed carry. If you can't make your own solution you can buy it.

For those that MUST carry Mess'can, try the Raven Vanguard 2... tho I don't see how it is so much more convenient than an IWB. It does have some merit when carrying in a concealed pouch like Hill People's Kit Bag.

TheRussian
March 11, 2013, 08:26
Never carry with a round chambered. 1911 or Gluck. I can stroke the slide during the draw so fast it ain't worth the brain sweat to have one in the pipe.

But you don't get to that point easy or quickly. Sort of like playing the Met...


x2

Kyrottimus
March 11, 2013, 12:47
I had a local guy make me a Kydex clone of a Raven (but one that sits higher on my belt) for my Glock. I always keep it with a round chambered. Sometimes threats present themself when you only have one hand free, and if you're not confident in your weapons-handling skills or safety awareness to carry a round chambered, it's time for more practice.

I can see why some security companies and militaries don't allow for this, but remember, they usually train to the lowest common denominator. When my life is at stake, I play by big-boy rules. Negligent discharges only happen when the user is being negligent. So don't be negligent...ever.

It's about trigger awareness that should always be the crux of safe firearms handling a concealed weapon. But more than that, trigger-guard awareness (i.e. no foreign material like clothing and such should be allowed near that area and should be cleared when holstering).

As for the Serpa, it's a fine holster if you train correctly (though they sit too proud off the body IMO which is why I don't prefer them). Don't simply "press" the retention switch to release, straighten out your index finger and without bending it AT ALL drag and sweep so the pistol draws with your finger naturally indexed along the frame. Like anything, repeated practice induces proper muscle memory.

gunplumber
March 11, 2013, 13:00
But more than that, trigger-guard awareness (i.e. no foreign material like clothing and such should be allowed near that area and should be cleared when holstering).

Triggers do not pull by themselves, but I heard that triggers are egalitarian in that when pulled, they go bang. They are indifferent as to what pulls them. Black, white, gay, Democrat, Republican, shirt tail or thumb break . . . they don't care. Which is why people who choose to forgo a mechanism (holster) to isolate the trigger from anything other than a finger, are fools.

As to the Serpa - I think it is a poor execution and have seen enough failures to "prove" it to myself. The button will lock with sand in it, and prevent the gun from being drawn or reholstered. My environment (Sonoran Desert) is probably the one the worst for demonstrating this shortcoming. And from an ergonomic standpoint, the drawstroke prepositions the trigger finger exactly over the trigger with inward pressure required to complete the draw - exactly the mechanism for getting the trigger finger inside the trigger guard as the gun clears. Yes, with constant practice and awareness, one can reduce the likelihood of the natural result occurring, but I submit that the traditional thumbreak serves the same retention function without this potentially hazard condition.

Kyrottimus
March 11, 2013, 13:14
Triggers do not pull by themselves, but I heard that triggers are egalitarian in that when pulled, they go bang. They are indifferent as to what pulls them. Black, white, gay, Democrat, Republican, shirt tail or thumb break . . . they don't care. Which is why people who choose to forgo a mechanism (holster) to isolate the trigger from anything other than a finger, are fools.

As to the Serpa - I think it is a poor execution and have seen enough failures to "prove" it to myself. The button will lock with sand in it, and prevent the gun from being drawn or reholstered. My environment (Sonoran Desert) is probably the one the worst for demonstrating this shortcoming. And from an ergonomic standpoint, the drawstroke prepositions the trigger finger exactly over the trigger with inward pressure required to complete the draw - exactly the mechanism for getting the trigger finger inside the trigger guard as the gun clears. Yes, with constant practice and awareness, one can reduce the likelihood of the natural result occurring, but I submit that the traditional thumbreak serves the same retention function without this potentially hazard condition.

I never really saw the Serpa as a "field" holster but more of a basic purpose entry level open-carry holster. Because they sit too far off the body and suck when trying to draw with winter gloves on, I've long ago opted out of using them. But for their design and given purpose as a basic retention holster, they work fine. Maybe I have crooked fingers, but whenever I drag my finger along the switch and draw from a serpa, my trigger-finger always winds up resting parallel upon the frame. That being said, there are better options out there.

I, like many here, have a drawer full of holsters I've experimented with, and I always go back to either the simple leather thumbreak (Tagua freebee dealer sample holster) or the local-made Kydex (Raven Clone)...depending on clothing/situation.

gunplumber
March 11, 2013, 13:45
have a drawer full of holsters I've experimented with, and I always go back to either the simple leather thumbreak (Tagua freebee dealer sample holster) or the local-made Kydex (Raven Clone)...depending on clothing/situation.

Ayup. Desantis Viper for OWB. Galco is pretty good too. Basic thumbreak, strong forward cant (FBI).

Sixtysixdeuce
March 18, 2013, 01:20
I drag my G20 behind me on a long piece of para cord, far enough so nobody can tell I'm the owner of such a fugly gun :o.














(truthfully, OWB strong side in a Desantis mini slide)

black sheep
March 18, 2013, 16:57
Now THAT (^^^^) is funny ....:biggrin::D:biggrin::D

davedude
March 19, 2013, 20:02
NO! Not for me. I'm gonna' close aggressively. If we're at that point in a confrontation. I'm driving and I'll be damned if I let the other guy get in charge. I ain't "fending" shit, I'm in the process of killing a predator. What are you going to "fend off" with your free hand, a bullet?

You're right about one thing, it'll happen fast.

+1

I am damn sure no expert but that's what teach has been drillin into my thick skull for about a year now. Cover , crash that motherf**ker (get inside) and counterattack. Flip the situation on your attacker--make him become prey.

http://www.combativewarriorarts.com/combatives.html

Yes I been going there a year and very highly recommend.

I'll ask teach what he say...one in the pipe or not. I like to carry one in the pipe but haven't been recently.
So we know about one in a Glock pipe, how about carrying with one in a Ruger LCP pipe or a S&W Sigma SW9VE pipe? Safe like the Glock?

Dave Dude

davedude
March 21, 2013, 08:05
ok nevermind...we are back to a chambered round in ALL carry peices.

.40 S&W is the only caliber I am not set up to reload for and I am going to eliminate it from the stable. Looking to trade my Glock 22 for either a 9mm or a 45 acp Glock, hope I will be able to find someone interested in makling that trade.

Dave Dude

GSP228
March 21, 2013, 12:30
ok nevermind...we are back to a chambered round in ALL carry peices.

.40 S&W is the only caliber I am not set up to reload for and I am going to eliminate it from the stable. Looking to trade my Glock 22 for either a 9mm or a 45 acp Glock, hope I will be able to find someone interested in makling that trade.

Dave DudeJust change barrels.

juanni
March 21, 2013, 19:04
Just change barrels.

Yep, retain the flexibility of using either ammo. One might be more available than the other.

I carry mine upfront in a Don Hume IWB pointed at my dick.
One hand, very discrete draw, easy on/off. You gotta have a flat stomach.

If I blow my own dick off, I figure I deserve it.



...........juanni

davedude
March 26, 2013, 16:53
Just change barrels.

I had forgotten about that. Would need to be able to find 9mm Glock mags to make it work..

Battlefield pickups? Shit I hope not but you may be right bolt dude, The murdering criminals calling themselves politicians are doing their best to get all guns on their side only. They are the reason that government is the biggest murderer of all time. Power kills.

Government helped kill all those little kids and teachers in Connecticut. The mental case perp picked that place because he knew it was a gun free zone and he would be able to kill max number of innocents before he was stopped.
Those kids and teachers were denied the right to defend themselves by government. They died because they had no guns.

“They don’t believe this was just a spreadsheet. They believe it was a score sheet,” the unidentified career cop told Lupica. “This was the work of a video gamer, and that it was his intent to put his own name at the very top of that list. They believe that he picked an elementary school because he felt it was a point of least resistance, where he could rack up the greatest number of kills. That’s what (the Connecticut police) believe.”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/18/sandy-hook-gunman-reportedly-compiled-massive-spreadsheet-on-previous-killings/

The same people responsible for gun free zones are the same people responsible for banning DDT. Millions die of malaria every year as a result. Stone cold murderers, these murdering criminals would not hesitate to pull the trigger on law abiding American citizens.

Dave Dude

nyalaman
March 26, 2013, 20:33
Chambered . except when the offspring or nephews are in tow. the little ones seem to have more hands grabbing than i can control.

kopcicle
March 27, 2013, 00:29
How Do You Carry A Glock?

I don't . I let someone else .

Before you jump to conclusions the reason I don't shoot a Glock if probably because I'm "special" or "gifted" . Actually it's more because I'm "differently abled" .

NavPacPhibGru thought enough of my abilities to call me an "expert" pistol shot . At 19 .
They also said the same of my rifle abilities , with an 03A3,

I never did get the whole crunch and ticker thing .

I'm more than fair with the double action triggers on my S&W revolvers .

I can not for the life of me make the adjustment to a Glock , any Glock .

I'd like to be able to cary a Glock but why if I can't reliably deliver a round on target .

As for the rest of the manual of arms for the glock .

Standrad stovepipe swipe fails to clear most of the time .

I have yet to cycle a Glock one handed , draging the slide across the body .

There is no CLEAR indication of a chambered round ( no the "O" frame doesn't have this either)

and the trigger is an abortifact

I actually tried to the point of passing just over 1,000 rounds through three similar Glocks before deciding I wanted my several hours back . And yes this was over a period of several years .

So ...

Thumb break strong side , pronounced forward tilt , and something besides a Glock .

~kop

EOD
March 27, 2013, 09:44
..... my brain hurts from some of these thoughts, lol. Everyone has to make their own choices though, not my place to tell them what's right.

In any event, I carry a glock 32, round chambered, in a milt sparks IWB SSII holster.

I don't understand why one would think they'll have two hands available when in
a fight for their life...striking, jamming a draw, fending off an attack.. just might occupy their weak hand to give them a chance to get to their weapon.

Honestly, a revolver makes a lot a sense for a lot of people. Semi-autos require more training and practice, specifically in gun handling skills such as malfunction
clearing, etc.

To each his own. Just something to consider.

gobbler
March 28, 2013, 17:21
The 2 Glocks I owned, a 10mm & 45........I carried to the pawn shop asap.

gobbler

Kyrottimus
March 31, 2013, 13:34
The whole "Safe-Action" (triple internal safety) design of the Glocks came from the Austrian military/police demand for a pistol that could be carried with a round chambered (safely, assuming the user isn't a backbirth imbecile) without any manual dingus switch. Many police/military establishments worldwide had similar requirements (maybe that's why it's such a widely used pistol around the globe).

Most casual shooters don't train enough "draw, unsafe, fire" to build that into reflex, hence things like the Sig pistols with double/single action & decocker (no safety) and Glocks with purely trigger-driven safeties. Many examples are out there of individuals when faced with sudden life-threatening situations have their adrenal glands dump into their bloodstream, which rapidly reduces what would normally be a calculated series of steps to get the gun into the fight into an "OH SH!T!"--yank pistol from holster and repeatedly mash trigger in the general direction of that guy shooting at me--type scenario.

I'm not saying this is always the case, as there are shooters with their heads in the game who train to the weapon design they've chosen. And some people can keep their cool under imminent threat situations. However, not everyone knows exactly how they'll react in that situation until after they've encountered it (assuming they survive).

Personally, I consider a Glock as having a manual safety (if using OEM trigger). The first stage of the trigger is what I consider the safety. Staging or "prepping" the trigger to the discernable "wall" is how I run my Glocks, however it takes lots of dry-fire practice to build the tactile feedback needed to know how much pressure disengages the weapons three safeties and how much more is needed for it to snap the striker.

This is also why I dislike the super-light Glock triggers, as they reduce that crisp-breaking trigger "wall" to a light mushy crunch with minimal tactile feedback as to where the safeties end and releasing the striker begins.

gunplumber
March 31, 2013, 13:44
Personally, I consider a Glock as having a manual safety (if using OEM trigger). The first stage of the trigger is what I consider the safety. Staging or "prepping" the trigger to the discernable "wall" is how I run my Glocks, however it takes lots of dry-fire practice to build the tactile feedback needed to know how much pressure disengages the weapons three safeties and how much more is needed for it to snap the striker.

Pressing the trigger half-way to "disengage the three safeties" has got to be the most stupid and reckless thing I've ever heard.

Anyone with even a sliver of intelligence and personal responsibility knows to keep their f-cking finger off the f-cking trigger until they are prepared to fire.

Stage the trigger as part of firing, or when resetting for a second shot. Never as a "safety".

Kyrottimus
March 31, 2013, 14:01
Pressing the trigger half-way to "disengage the three safeties" has got to be the most stupid and reckless thing I've ever heard.

Anyone with even a sliver of intelligence and personal responsibility knows to keep their f-cking finger off the f-cking trigger until they are prepared to fire.

Stage the trigger as part of firing, or when resetting for a second shot. Never as a "safety".

I submit to you that it's a step when preparing to fire or a real and significant threat has presented itself. It is far more accurate to "shoot from the wall" than from pulling the trigger as one complete motion, it replicates trigger-pull as from trigger reset as well so repeatable accuracy is there first shot to last.

It's not "prep trigger" and then proceed to clear a house in that condition, it's simple a quick half-second step taken when the need to fire is imminent or may be imminent. I consider it a step to take WHEN one is prepared to fire, not before. While I admit this is not something to train when training to the lowest-common denominator, I do see it as viable when implemented at the correct time.

Don't misinterpret my statements as "prepping a glock trigger" to be done in the same fasion as one would disengage a manual thumb safety. Both are different methods of operation and should be done at totally different times (thumb safety--when unholstering...trigger safety--when the need to fire is imminent).

gunplumber
March 31, 2013, 14:17
one of the greatest accuracy enhancers I use with my students (along with follow-through) is trigger reset. Not "bouncing" the trigger finger off the trigger, but releasing only enough for the disconnector to reset, for the second shot.

What you are describing is no different than taking up the slack on a two stage trigger while seeking an optimal sight picture. The decision to fire has already been made - one is only seeking a good trigger press. Good in slow-fire. Not so much in reaction shooting.

What you described in your first post was "disengage safety by pulling trigger half way".

This is significantly different than your second post, which loosely translates as "in target shooting, take up the slack in your trigger while refining sight alignment, and complete the press at the optimal sight picture". No argument there.

Kyrottimus
March 31, 2013, 14:43
one of the greatest accuracy enhancers I use with my students (along with follow-through) is trigger reset. Not "bouncing" the trigger finger off the trigger, but releasing only enough for the disconnector to reset, for the second shot.

What you are describing is no different than taking up the slack on a two stage trigger while seeking an optimal sight picture. The decision to fire has already been made - one is only seeking a good trigger press. Good in slow-fire. Not so much in reaction shooting.

What you described in your first post was "disengage safety by pulling trigger half way".

This is significantly different than your second post, which loosely translates as "in target shooting, take up the slack in your trigger while refining sight alignment, and complete the press at the optimal sight picture". No argument there.

Well I use that description when someone says "Glocks have no safety!" and when getting ready to fire (i.e. lining up a shot) I show them how through normal manual-of-arms just prior to firing they are in fact manually disengaging the three Glock's safeties.

Perhaps I didn't word it approprietly, but even in point-shooting drills my finger takes up the first stage with the smallest of delays to fire from the "wall." Most of my shooting and dry-firing practice is to build this in to avoid instinctively just pulling the trigger from the beginning as a complete motion (such as with double-action revolvers). So in essence I am disengaging the weapon's safeties simultaneously as I'm preparing to fire (which is what I meant....not to be used as a draw-unsafe-aim technique but rather a draw-aim-unsafe method with minimal steps required to take fast, accurate shots).

I am a fan of two-stage triggers in all my rifles (except for bolt action) for this reason. It's especially nice when the first-stage slack ends at the exact point of the trigger's reset as when doing double/triple tap drills I fire off the reset. This helps with my shot-consistency.

Like Wyatt Earp said, "Fast is fine but accuracy is final."

Dasho101
March 31, 2013, 21:46
http://youtu.be/8pU2IOTEZlU

gunplumber
March 31, 2013, 21:57
A long time ago when I was more into DA revolvers, I'd install a set screw in the trigger or behind the trigger. The setscrew had a nylon insert. I'd adjust the set screw so that the trigger would "stop" on the nylon tip, before releasing (this double action only). Then compressing the nylon would release the hammer. This was a way to get a 2 stage trigger and it was for target shooting only - at that time, bowling pins.

My J frame airweight has a similar step in its long DA pull - and with a shrouded hammer is DA only. I can do a trigger job to virtually eliminate this step so that it is a smooth pull all the way through, but I am not sure I want to. The DA is heavy enough to make accurate fire more difficult than a SA would be, and this step allows for a little more precision plinking. I just don't see much value in a crisis draw and fire, where the smoother pull with no step may be superior.

emcroy
April 02, 2013, 00:35
It's just a game but go play USPSA/IPSC for a while and you may understand the "economy of movement" as gunplumber puts it!

Lets say you carry with an empty chamber and you train that way.

Lets say that I carry the weapon hot and I train that way and I'm twenty years younger and I also have a grip on it when things get hinky, actually it may already be at low ready and I didn't have to announce it!

Edited to add: Twenty years younger may be stretching it a bit but you get my drift!

0302
April 03, 2013, 19:20
ALL RISE, ACCORDING TO CLINT SMITH:

Condition One: Ready To Rock

In Condition One, the pistol has a cartridge in the chamber and a fall magazine inserted into the magazine well. This state of readiness occurs just prior to firing the gun.

In Condition One, a Glock handgun is brought into action simply by being brought on target. When placed on the trigger, the shooter's finger disengages the safety lever located in the middle of the trigger. The grip safety located at the back of the frame of an XD must be depressed as well to fire the XD as well as the trigger safety lever.

In Condition One, 1911 pistols are in a mechanical state commonly called "cocked and locked." In this mode, the hammer is back and the thumb safety is up and in a locked or "safe" no-fire position. The magazine is full and in place.

To bring into action, the 1911 is brought on target, the thumb safety depressed into fire mode and the trigger is accessed. The 1911 also requires that the grip safety located at the back of the frame be depressed in order to fire the pistol.

In Condition One, a firearm is in its fullest state of readiness. The operator is simply required to draw or present the pistol to the threat and apply the mechanics necessary to make the pistol fire. Condition One would be a correct choice when it is necessary to carry the pistol in a state of readiness for potential imminent use. [Which would include concealed carry].

Condition Two: Dangerous And Awkward

In Condition Two, the pistol has a cartridge in the chamber and a full magazine in place. Glocks cannot be carried in Condition Two as they have no external hammer. When a 1911 is carried in Condition Two, the thumb safety is off and the hammer is down. The grip safety is still in place but does not come into play until the hammer is brought back for firing.

This Condition of Carry offers the dual disadvantage of being both dangerous and awkward. To bring the pistol into action, the operator must first cock the hammer to the rear, making this method of operation slower than the "cocked-and-locked" method of Condition One. Furthermore, Condition. Two could be dangerous if the hammer slips during the risky "dropping" process or if the gun itself is accidentally dropped while in this hammer-down mode. This mode of carry is not recommended under any circumstances.

Condition Three: Is It Child Proof?

In Condition Three the chamber is empty and a full magazine is in place in the magazine well. Condition Three is applicable in both the 1911 and Glock systems and is a common method of carry for military organizations around the world.
The Israelis have gone so far as to include drawing, crouching and reciprocating the slide as a technique of instruction. U.S. military units have long carried pistols in this half-loaded configuration while walking or serving on guard- and duty-stations. U.S. military sentries have even developed a technique of one-handed drawing by reciprocating the slide on the belt or holster to charge the weapon.

It has been suggested that Condition Three is a safe condition in which to store a handgun in a child-occupied home. This theory is based on the assumption that a youngster could not easily reciprocate the slide and thereby load the weapon.

To dispel that myth, I personally know of a young couple whose 3-year-old daughter gained access to their Government Model 1911, cycled the slide and discharged the firearm in the bedroom closet. Fortunately, no one was injured, although everyone involved was quite shaken by the incident.

For this reason, I recommend that Condition Three is appropriate for firearm storage only if the half-loaded guns function as secondary weapons and are stored in locked vaults or lock boxes.

Ahhhhhhhhmen

Rudolf
April 07, 2013, 02:37
I use a IWB Crossbreed for all of my carry guns.

G26 and G17 are used with Condition 1 but sometimes condition 3 also when it merits that setup.