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one hand clapping
February 21, 2013, 10:48
Hello guys.
I've been toying with the idea of attempting to get into a fa fal. [ cost being the main factor in attempting]
SO- I've a few questions-
I am aware I could look for a complete transferable, and pay the price.
I was wondering what the rules are for finding a transferable receiver and building around it?
As I understand the receiver would be the MG and putting on a barrel etc would not be manufacturing a new MG.
This ,of course would be after the form 4 was ok'ed.
If that's allowed, then are the only parts needed outside of the registered sear cut upper with FA ejectorblock- a FA carrier, saftey sear, and FA selector?

I ask this cause $$ is a big issue on whether I can get into a fun gun fal. I am making the assumeption that it would be cheaper to find a transferable upper than a whole rifle- am I missguided and if so how please?

Thanks in advance-

OHC

ncjeeper
February 21, 2013, 21:01
If you have a pre 1986 receiver on the list then you wouldnt be building a new MG. Its already a MG.

fnogger
February 21, 2013, 21:01
Think you'll have a much easier time finding a complete gun than a bare receiver. After all, transferrable receiver was around in the heyday of the kits for $100, doesn't require any 922r parts (NFA is defined as non-sporting already).

If you want to get into FA with a FN "inexpensively" I think the best deal goign is a FNC

kev
February 21, 2013, 23:52
If you could find a registered receiver there wouldn't be any problem with building it up(you'd finally be able to use ALL the parts that come with your parts kit). But you're not going to find a receiver. There's almost 'zero' chance that there's still a bare registered receiver floating around for the taking after almost 30yrs. Believe me,....you're not the first to want to get in on the cheap. Secondly, buying a bare receiver isn't going to save you any money. People know what they're worth and it's not too hard to take the $12,000 price of a complete rifle and subtract the cost of a kit. There's just no savings to be had,.....it's a tight market.

If you really, really look, you can still turn up an ocassional unbuilt STen tube or Browning 1919 sideplate, but those were turned out in large quantities from readily available materials. It was no big deal for a manufacturer to invest the money in a ton of steel plate or muffler pipe and churn out receivers by the hundreds. It was just a matter of machine time with very little up-front costs in material. OTOH, since there were no aftermarket commercial FAL receivers available pre-1986, the only way to manufacture a registered FAL was to pay upfront for a complete semi-auto rifle at roughly $1000 apiece and mill for the sear. Not very many got done due to the cost and availability of the host FALs, and naturally the ones that did get done were then and are still complete weapons. Basically, a bare receiver almost cannot exist; if it did it would have already been built up by now; if somehow it had managed to have been overlooked for all these years the price would still be high enough that there'd be no savings over buying a complete firearm.

Ten years ago there were still some deals to be found. I bought a pair of M10/45 bare receivers for $550 apiece and built them up from parts. Saved almost $1000 apiece. I bought a stripped UZI receiver that someone had pulled the parts off of to sell(it was a pre-86 sample and evidently original Uzi parts were once rare). I probably saved $1000 in that build. I've had a couple of Sterlings built built up on virgin STen tubes saving a grand or two apiece, but all these deals were ten years ago. The stuff has simply dried up. I got out when it became a waste of time to continue looking.

HighRatMaster
February 22, 2013, 00:00
Be aware that if you are concerned about the initial cost of a fa:

Full auto is the best way to turn money into noise.

But they are fun as hell, 'speshly if your rich uncle is buyin the ammo.

riffraff2
February 22, 2013, 19:46
If you could find a registered receiver there wouldn't be any problem with building it up(you'd finally be able to use ALL the parts that come with your parts kit). But you're not going to find a receiver. There's almost 'zero' chance that there's still a bare registered receiver floating around for the taking after almost 30yrs. Believe me,....you're not the first to want to get in on the cheap. Secondly, buying a bare receiver isn't going to save you any money. People know what they're worth and it's not too hard to take the $12,000 price of a complete rifle and subtract the cost of a kit. There's just no savings to be had,.....it's a tight market.

If you really, really look, you can still turn up an ocassional unbuilt STen tube or Browning 1919 sideplate, but those were turned out in large quantities from readily available materials. It was no big deal for a manufacturer to invest the money in a ton of steel plate or muffler pipe and churn out receivers by the hundreds. It was just a matter of machine time with very little up-front costs in material. OTOH, since there were no aftermarket commercial FAL receivers available pre-1986, the only way to manufacture a registered FAL was to pay upfront for a complete semi-auto rifle at roughly $1000 apiece and mill for the sear. Not very many got done due to the cost and availability of the host FALs, and naturally the ones that did get done were then and are still complete weapons. Basically, a bare receiver almost cannot exist; if it did it would have already been built up by now; if somehow it had managed to have been overlooked for all these years the price would still be high enough that there'd be no savings over buying a complete firearm.

Ten years ago there were still some deals to be found. I bought a pair of M10/45 bare receivers for $550 apiece and built them up from parts. Saved almost $1000 apiece. I bought a stripped UZI receiver that someone had pulled the parts off of to sell(it was a pre-86 sample and evidently original Uzi parts were once rare). I probably saved $1000 in that build. I've had a couple of Sterlings built built up on virgin STen tubes saving a grand or two apiece, but all these deals were ten years ago. The stuff has simply dried up. I got out when it became a waste of time to continue looking.



You said it all Kev. Frankly, as educated and connected as I at least thought, OHC to be, I can't believe she asked the questions she asked. I guess that OHC ain't nearly as educated and connected as I believed. The word poser comes to mind for some reason.

L Haney
February 22, 2013, 20:12
The word poser comes to mind for some reason.

I find this difficult to believe from you as I don't think you possess much 'reason'.

You've called her a poser and a leech. You getting much mileage out of that?

Couldn't be a girl is highlighting some of your own inadequacies in your mind, could it?

kev
February 22, 2013, 21:02
That's kinda vicious don't you think? Everybody who starts down the road to title2 follows the same general path. Nobody starts out knowing it all and the first thing people do is try to come up with a scheme that makes it affordable, because if you can't think of a way to pull it off financially you know you're not going to get it done. I've seen a hundred people propose building their first from a registered receiver and a parts kit and none of them posers,.......just people trying to make it happen.

If you did it better, why don't you tell us how? I'm sure many would like to know.

fastback65
February 22, 2013, 21:16
You said it all Kev. Frankly, as educated and connected as I at least thought, OHC to be, I can't believe she asked the questions she asked. I guess that OHC ain't nearly as educated and connected as I believed. The word poser comes to mind for some reason.

What a POS

Skilter
February 22, 2013, 21:20
Depends... What do you want it for? That is a serious question... Especially given the funds involved.

1. If you want it for a serious defense or tactical weapon, it is probably not the best choice unless you are in Syria right now. An M16 would be a much better choice for that kind of money if you are just getting into F/A for that reason.

2. If you are getting it for an investment, beware that laws can change and you might get stuck with one.

3. If you are seriously into FALs and want it for a collection. I say DRIVE ON... go get you one. If you search long and hard and find the one you want, then buy it. Make it a good one. Don't be afraid to say this is not the one. There are several options. They are out there, but you just have to search hard. But the receiver thing, I think it will not work.

Now... that being said... I have seriously toyed with the thought of getting a F/A FAL, stripping it down and putting it onto a 16" platform with the "loud as hell" 3 hole muzzle brake that was AKA the pre-ban 16" DSA Carbine. Those brakes work and I think that would be a pretty cool package. BUT, that would not be my first step into this Title II world.

I respect kev... he has a lot of experience in this area like others on this board that tend to keep a little more quiet. Listen to his advice.

Good luck with your decision.

Skilter
February 22, 2013, 21:35
Oh... and when I first decided that I wanted to get into the Title II world back in the day, I did some research on who was a "Class 3" dealer and asked him ...

"I am looking for a Mag58... How much do those cost?"

No Sh*t... that was my first question... :rofl:

kev
February 22, 2013, 22:28
"I am looking for a Mag58... How much do those cost?"

No Sh*t... that was my first question... :rofl:

Strangely enough, those can still be bought as unbuilt receivers. Last price I saw was $75,000, but that was a couple years ago. Add another $5000 for the kit plus whatever it takes to finish it up,..............not exactly entry level, is it?

K. Funk
February 22, 2013, 22:43
You will find that a transferrable receiver, if you can find one will go for about as much as a complete rifle. The "bargain" transferrable FAL's are the Springfield Armory SAR 48's. I got mine for about 12k. A Belgian or any "real" FAL will set you back several k more. I have seen SAR's done up in a variety of configurations, ie, from regular Argy style to Izzy HB's, and para's.

krf

Sampson1986
February 23, 2013, 09:24
If you've got the time and money, do it. Take the plunge and don't look back.

...

Riff, stop being a d*ldo.

one hand clapping
February 23, 2013, 10:32
Thanks to all of you for your considerate replies / sans my new personal troll.

I will have to shift my gears a bit, as I don't have a deep nuff purse to go down this road with my FAVORITE type of rifle. I had considered it for defense and fun, not collecting alone.

There's a class three dealer bout fifty miles away, so I might do the drive and see what he has in stock or can find that might be more in my price range .
If any of you guys that have a transferable fal and no one to leave it to, I'm open for adoption--I could use a daddy, mine turned his back on me when I was 15.

I guess I'll just keep my eyes and ears open and wait for heaven to reward me for all my good deeds----------hahahahahahah

meltblown
February 23, 2013, 11:17
Too deep for my pockets. I know where an annimule exists. Guy is and FFL and bought one for a LEO sample. He's retired trooper so was able to get sign off. It's a DSA and not really that expensive considering. He can transfer to another class 3 dealer (me thinks) but the rifle can never go on the market

riffraff2
February 23, 2013, 17:54
That's kinda vicious don't you think? Everybody who starts down the road to title2 follows the same general path. Nobody starts out knowing it all and the first thing people do is try to come up with a scheme that makes it affordable, because if you can't think of a way to pull it off financially you know you're not going to get it done. I've seen a hundred people propose building their first from a registered receiver and a parts kit and none of them posers,.......just people trying to make it happen.

If you did it better, why don't you tell us how? I'm sure many would like to know.


Yeah, I was kinda harsh. But it is like you said, the registered receiver and parts kit thing is LONG GONE, as in decades.

doneill
February 23, 2013, 18:01
OHC:

One thing to know is that the purchase is a long process. Figure up to a year between the time you pay and the time you get it. Also understand that getting the same gun from an individual vs a dealer can save 20% but that your chance of an issue is at least 20% higher unless you know the seller well. Even then he/she ought to understand the process and you need a fall back clause to get your money back incase ATF discovers, or invents a problem which happens once in a while.

The questions about what your intend to do is the key. I make noise, splatter mud, blow up tannerite and bounce cans around. For that, the 22 is fun, 9mm is better, 5.56 is plenty and 7.62 FAL HB is for the warm fuzzy feeling of making big craters in the mud. I doubt I will ever marry a belt fed. My wife would object for one thing, and I cannot afford to fire $250 belt very often. There are .22 lr belt and drum fed uppers that can go on a M16 that allow folks like me to play with the belt feds.


If you intend to hold the firearm to your shoulder when you shoot it, then a 7.62 or 30-06 is probably not what you want. They are very hard to keep on target. To shoot from the shoulder, consider the FNC as mentioned above. They are a good value - maybe $6-7K. Mini 14's maybe a bit less, but in my view the FNC is pretty cool. M1 to M2 carbine conversions also are a bit less but ammo is tight. It might be possible to find a converted AR for ~$12K.
The ar can take a .22 upper that you can shoot all afternoon for $50.

There are a lot of nice subguns that have not gone up in price as much as the rifle caliber guns. If one of those might meet your need post your thoughts here or at subguns.com and folks will give guidance. Everyone has strong opinions and four mg shooters in the room will generate at least 16 opinions about what is best.

Dave O'Neill

BigBoy1
February 24, 2013, 18:29
One point which has not been raised is with a C&R 03FFL, you can have C&R NFA items transferred directly to you without going through a Class III dealer. Admittedly, a C&R firearm is not a FAL but at least you can the NFA weapon transferred directly to you and avoid the delay of the second transfer.

I converted a C&R G-Series FAL to selective fire. I tried to get the BATF to consider the selective fire G-Series FAL as a C&R firearm. They wouldn't do that. They reasoned that since I "manufactured" a machine gun, I changed the C&R status of the original FAL to a non-&R firearm. Oh well.

stimpsonjcat
February 25, 2013, 16:18
This won't help...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nTUp9S3s-3o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

L Haney
February 25, 2013, 16:58
Fail. Youtube videos HAVE to have craptastic music for a soundtrack. I think it's in the terms of use agreement. At least, I think it must be from all the other gun videos I've seen.

:biggrin:

Skilter
February 25, 2013, 22:10
Stimp... with great respect and the love of a soundtrack....

This is the worst thing to look at...

If I was to have Title II weapons, they would be in this order with limited funds from an average middle class substituting a bad corvette habit...:

M16 in a M4 config. 14.5 w/can mated to the upper ... save for the ACOG

.22 pistol with can.

- add here offset... I love a bolt action integral 10/22 -

Mini-uzi with can... MP5 too expensive.

Glock 19 with can...

Shifting calibers...

Glock 21 with can

Mac10 PS with lage upper and can

FREELANCE...

I like the 7.62x39 that is coming on line and there are cans available...

all the above are portable.... Then you get into belt fed weapons, etc... OR you get into things like a Swede K and personal likes...

1919 with isreali open bolt operation for big shoots?

.02 wheat...

one hand clapping
February 26, 2013, 20:26
Thanks guys
,much food for thought. I do have a 03 ffl, so methinks I'll start there.
I was thinking of a home defense tool, Like a pintle mounted HB that could be attatched to a vechile ,and given I love fals--thought I'd start looking there.
I will look into the less expensive options and will report back-
I know its a long process, but every journey starts with the first step.
OHC

stimpsonjcat
February 27, 2013, 17:09
http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/price_guides.html

stimpsonjcat
February 27, 2013, 17:10
Stimp... with great respect and the love of a soundtrack....

This is the worst thing to look at...



Not sure what you're saying here.

gunplumber
February 27, 2013, 18:00
For what it's worth, the most long-term cost effective NFA life is going to be an HK sear. With that, you can have multiple machineguns on one stamp, just not all at the same time.

9mm, .223, and .308. Just swap the hammer/spring and ejector to caliber appropriate.

Personally, I think a .308 full auto shoulder fired weapon isn't all that much fun, after the initial excitement wears off.

Another to consider is a registered receiver Uzi - not only is it indestructible and fun, but you can do caliber conversions fairly easily. I had a .22 conversion that was a blast to shoot. Much easier to tinker with than something like a STEN or a Sterling or a STENling.

You need to look at the operating cost. Sure, you may spend $5000 more for an HK sear (just pulling a number out of my ass), but what is $5000 worth of one caliber over another?

Also, when you wear out the barrel on an uzi, it is $100 drop-in replacement. FAL is a little more work, and HK is nightmare. But you can use your trigger pack on a $1500 PTR-91 clone, and a $1000 Century 93. Keeping the host guns semiauto.

stimpsonjcat
February 28, 2013, 20:40
I agree with Mark, caliber conversions are a must.

I have a FA Uzi and can shoot 22lr, 9mm, and 45ACP. I have cans for all three calibers as well (2 of which I made on form1s). The 22lr and 45 conversions for the Uzi are both psycho fast.

I am going to make a top cover modded to allow me to mount the Uzi on a tripod upside-down and have a gravity (and possibly weight-slug assisted) fed mag a la gatling gun sticking up in the air. Or possibly a hopper arrangement. Then a set of paddles to operate. It's all drawn up but nothing is started yet.

I have a FA FAL also, and I plan to make a Meeper style QC barrel setup for it so I can shoot it in 22lr(via the Kurbelgeuse kit), 7.62x25, 5.45, and 308. I am still cogitating swarf on this project and it hasn't been started either. I am stoked to get the 7.62x25 setup going, as I have an a$$load of that ammo and it will be stoopid fun in that caliber. My AR upper I did in this caliber is disgustingly fun to shoot also.

One other comment on the FA FAL in 308. The thing is a double-tap machine at contact to 25 yards. Just give a solid pull on the trigger and you get two rounds where pointed. It's only the 3rd and subsequent rounds after you are out of recoil ability that start to climb horribly. This makes it a bit like a subgun on steroids, and might even render advanced ceramic armor useless if I understand the limitations of that stuff properly.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/41190821/gunstuff/uziboxojoy.jpg

kev
February 28, 2013, 22:06
For a first and possibly only MG, caliber conversions are essential. That's where the M16 shines and it's why the sears(both DIAS and HK)are so popular. UZI is also a standout, but the MAC is catching up fast. Dollar for dollar, I think the MAC is soon going to pull ahead.

As for the FAL, up until recently it was a one-trick-pony, but with the affordable .22 kit on the horizon it will soon be cheap to play with. The Meeper conversion is a little more involved and expensive, but well worth it. Don't forget 5.56mm. That's a fairly easy one. Bolts are available and magwell adapters have been in the past. I bought a Meeperized G1 simply to strip the .223 conversion out for one of my MG's. Think of the FAL firing from the bipod with a Beta Mag inserted. Smooth, accurate and fun. And I've got 9mm and .45ACP Rhineland conversions sitting in boxes too. Just need to make swap-out barrels for the pistol cals. Thought for a long time about the possibility of an RPD belt conversion that would replace the dst cover, but someone with more ambition than me would have to tackle that one. .308, .223, .22LR, and some pistol calibers and I'll be happy enough.

Skilter
April 05, 2013, 14:31
Checking old posts on a Friday...

"The worst thing to look at..." is a reference to all the things that someone might want to buy on a limited budget and a un-limited desire. :shades:

I still say, an off brand (but functioning) M4 with a can is the best buy.

kev
April 05, 2013, 18:05
Re-reading this, I see where you've got an 03FFL? Well geeze, why didn't you say so before? You can do what I did and just pay the SOT for a year or more and buy up as many pre-samples as you can find/afford. Pre-sample FAL is not at all uncommon and running about $7000 each right now. Generally you can figure about half the price of a transferable for most any model gun, but back in the good old days you could sometimes find a sample for 1/3 to 1/4 the equivilent transferable. The BEST part about the SOT and buying samples is that you can find guns that are rare, super expensive, or simply not available as transferables.

Once you've sent in your check for $500(reduced rate), you start having cheap, original factory produced MG's shipped to your address. Pre-samples you get to keep when/if you relinquish your FFL. They don't become transferable and can only pass back out to current SOT's, but if you want the guns because you WANT them, it's the best deal going.

BigBoy1
April 06, 2013, 07:36
Re-reading this, I see where you've got an 03FFL? Well geeze, why didn't you say so before? You can do what I did and just pay the SOT for a year or more and buy up as many pre-samples as you can find/afford. Pre-sample FAL is not at all uncommon and running about $7000 each right now. Generally you can figure about half the price of a transferable for most any model gun, but back in the good old days you could sometimes find a sample for 1/3 to 1/4 the equivilent transferable. The BEST part about the SOT and buying samples is that you can find guns that are rare, super expensive, or simply not available as transferables.

Once you've sent in your check for $500(reduced rate), you start having cheap, original factory produced MG's shipped to your address. Pre-samples you get to keep when/if you relinquish your FFL. They don't become transferable and can only pass back out to current SOT's, but if you want the guns because you WANT them, it's the best deal going.

How many Pre-sample NFA weapons are listed on the NFA C&R list? An 03FFL can deal ONLY with C&R weapons. Why the discussion about SOT license fees?

kev
April 06, 2013, 21:33
Duh,.....you're right; I'm wrong. Don't know what I was thinking. Gave up my FFL years ago and have been 'thinking' about applying for a C&R. Guess that's my only explanation.

Warbirds Custom Guns
April 12, 2013, 23:20
For what it's worth, the most long-term cost effective NFA life is going to be an HK sear. With that, you can have multiple machineguns on one stamp, just not all at the same time.

Another to consider is a registered receiver Uzi - not only is it indestructible and fun, but you can do caliber conversions fairly easily.

I have an M-16 with 5 different caliber uppers.
You can also buy a registered DIAS for AR-15's
I also have suppressors for each caliber.
223
7.62x39 (mucho fun)
5.45x39 (also mucho fun)
9mm
22




.

fnogger
April 13, 2013, 16:45
How many Pre-sample NFA weapons are listed on the NFA C&R list? An 03FFL can deal ONLY with C&R weapons. Why the discussion about SOT license fees?

In 23 years they *all* will be .... in 5 years, anything imported as NFA...

LaConservationist
May 05, 2013, 10:25
Guys and Gals I posted this on the FNFILES as I found a related post there BUT since I have been checking into the same general issues, would this be a possible alternative? Yeah I know I guess I am in the same chair as OHC being a "POSER" as well.....That's OK OHC, if I am a poser, I am very comfortable with YOU as my company! ;)

Anyway, is a G series FAL the route to take? What is requred beside the minimal $8K Plus?

Thanks guys for sharing your knowledge........

LaC

For those of you in the KNOW......what is your take on this rifle? There is something that I see is wrong with the listing that does NOT meet the letter of the BATF in the top section of this thread.....what are your thoughts?
How could this be definitely 110% identified as a REAL DEAL G series? I am thinking ONLY knowing the actual serial number on rifle!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=339291957

Also, if this is a real deal G series rifle and legal to own and have in ones possession.....what would be required to use in the "HAPPY MODE"?

Thanks!

LaC

fnogger
May 05, 2013, 11:06
If it is not currently registered as a civilian transferrable MG then it never can be... that is, it should already have tax stamp paper work.


You could get your FFL, then your SOT, and some machine equipment, and find a friendly LE Agency to write demo unit request letters and then make post-'86 dealer sample units to your hearts content. Or, get the same paperwork and apply to BATFE for permission to make for "experimental purposes".

kev
May 05, 2013, 23:28
It's exempt from NFA,......it's a very expensive semi rifle. A properly registered G series rifle is a $20,000-25,000 item. There ain't no cheap way(and in this case, $8000 is considered cheap).

BigBoy1
May 06, 2013, 06:53
Guys and Gals I posted this on the FNFILES as I found a related post there BUT since I have been checking into the same general issues, would this be a possible alternative? Yeah I know I guess I am in the same chair as OHC being a "POSER" as well.....That's OK OHC, if I am a poser, I am very comfortable with YOU as my company! ;)

Anyway, is a G series FAL the route to take? What is requred beside the minimal $8K Plus?

Thanks guys for sharing your knowledge........

LaC

For those of you in the KNOW......what is your take on this rifle? There is something that I see is wrong with the listing that does NOT meet the letter of the BATF in the top section of this thread.....what are your thoughts?
How could this be definitely 110% identified as a REAL DEAL G series? I am thinking ONLY knowing the actual serial number on rifle!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=339291957

Also, if this is a real deal G series rifle and legal to own and have in ones possession.....what would be required to use in the "HAPPY MODE"?

Thanks!

LaC

One has to be very weary as the only thing he didn't post a close-up picture was the serial number. It looks like a G-Series FAL but without the exact serial number, one doesn't know it is one of the 1848 legal FALs. I have encountered G-Series FALs which were NOT on the BATF C&R list. These were true G-Series FAL but they were initially imported into Canada and some how came south. Since the BATF only accepts G-Series FALs which were legally imported in the US, the G-Series FAL which are NOT on the C&R list are considered by the BATF to be unregistered machine guns and subject to confiscation and criminal penalties. Caveat Emptor!

Private individual manufacture of semi-auto rifles into selective fire weapons ended in 19 May 1986. Any selective fire weapon manufactured after that date must be for the Government or law enforcement. No exceptions!

LaConservationist
May 06, 2013, 19:14
BB1, seems you about summed it up.....as posted in the FN files, this was my concern.....

Well either no one caught this OR it isn't an issue.......I thought someone would have commented.....yes the number on the PG (3062) does show to be on the BATF list......G3035 through G3134 100
But what really caught my eye and I am not sure about is the Left side markings.......BATF says....."All G Series and GL Series FAL
rifles will be marked FAL. cal. 7.62 on the left side of the
receiver" where as the one in the auction is stamped as F.A.L. cal. 308

I sent the guy a message and received NO answers...and yes he does say it has a Return Policy: 3 days less shipping both ways, provided item is not as described.

Good luck getting your 8+K back if its NOT the real deal and you just bought a $1800 rifle, that has a receiver that now must be DEMILLED!!

OH well.....I know there is one out there that I will end up with sooner or later......PROBABLY LATER!!

LaC

BigBoy1
May 07, 2013, 08:50
But what really caught my eye and I am not sure about is the Left side markings.......BATF says....."All G Series and GL Series FAL
rifles will be marked FAL. cal. 7.62 on the left side of the
receiver" where as the one in the auction is stamped as F.A.L. cal. 308

LaC

LaC,

Sorry I missed the .308 marking. I didn't look at it that close. If it has the .308 marking, then the receiver is definitely NOT a G-Series FAL as defined by US law. The reason for the change from the Cal. 7.62 to the .308 marking was an attempt to comply with the gun law which said the weapon had to be a "sporting" weapon and not a "military" weapon. Since the Cal. 7.62 was a military marking, it was changes to .308 was to show that the weapon was in a sporting caliber and not a military caliber. Nothing actually change with the weapon except the perception. I'm sure such a change would convince politicians that the rifle was for sporting use.

All of C&R listed FALs were in the US before the law was passed and the BATF "grandfathered" them. Since BATF had all the serial numbers, the ones imported before the law could be easily identified. Now how can a FAL with markings on it which were put on it after the law was enacted some how become one of those which were imported prior to the law passing?

This could very well be one which was initially imported in Canada after the US law was passed. I'm sure FN changed the caliber markings on all of the FALs they made and this could be one of the first batch with the new caliber markings. Even so, without knowing the exact serial number of it, it is a VERY suspect rifle.

The seller says it can be returned but I'll bet that if it sells for the amt. asked, the seller's email account and phone will be disconnected!

one hand clapping
May 07, 2013, 11:03
Thanks for all the info guys. I still haven't made it down to the class 3 dealer, but I have noit given up. STUPID LAWS
I sit looking at my legal -syrus import -searcut reciever and just get sad that I can't just swap out a few parts and have some fun--legally.
OH well-- someday things might change-- like after an astroid hits DC

jugrunner
May 07, 2013, 18:41
Yeah, I was kinda harsh. But it is like you said, the registered receiver and parts kit thing is LONG GONE, as in decades.


like you would know ... :rolleyes: ... just STFU fool ... !!!

damn ... it gets worse everyday ...

Glucker
May 28, 2013, 22:06
One Hand Clapping, I understand you have a C and R FFL? If that is the case, you might look for a S and W M 76, I believe some of them are C and R. Don't know if that is your cup of tea, but I bought one recently (Omega Man fan of course) and am pleased with it, and they are out there if you look for a pretty reasonable price.

riffraff2
May 29, 2013, 05:38
like you would know ... :rolleyes: ... just STFU fool ... !!!

damn ... it gets worse everyday ...



It is official now, Jugrunner, you are an idiot. You didn't pay attention to my last advice. FU and the horse you rode in on. I will just have fun bitch slapping you from now on at every opportunity. Fool.

Glucker
May 29, 2013, 08:42
riffraff2,

That post is offensive. Grow up and act like an adult or take you childish tantrum somewhere else.

riffraff2
May 29, 2013, 17:35
riffraff2,

That post is offensive. Grow up and act like an adult or take you childish tantrum somewhere else.

My reply to jugsucker is perfect. I am offended that you are offended. Grow up.

jugrunner
May 29, 2013, 17:54
My reply to jugsucker is perfect. I am offended that you are offended. Grow up.


you're a genius ... u prove it everyday ...

he actually does not have a clue about "bitch slap" ... :wink: ... one trip to Alabama and he could find out ... :rofl: ...

riffraff2
May 31, 2013, 18:03
you're a genius ... u prove it everyday ...

he actually does not have a clue about "bitch slap" ... :wink: ... one trip to Alabama and he could find out ... :rofl: ...


One thing is for sure, it wouldn't be from you.

jugrunner
May 31, 2013, 20:05
One thing is for sure, it wouldn't be from you.


absolutely not .. :rofl: .. it'll be from my sister .. :p .. the one that SWOFUL turned down for my brother ... :eek:

Skilter
June 01, 2013, 00:09
The sear cut G1 is just as valuable as the old AR15's with the hole drilled in the receiver, but just welded up. (for the life of me I can't remember the nomenclature of that variation but I believe it was the Colt SP-1)

Basically... it was because you could own something that everyone thought was easily convertible... and to some that have the knowledge it is. BUT ... if you don't or don't have access to those who do, then it is of no value other than investment to those that think they might. Plus, if you own the parts, you are screwed if caught anyway.

YMMV...