PDA

View Full Version : NFA Trust Question


shortround
February 01, 2013, 13:31
This might be a longish question, but here goes:

Six months ago I bought a couple of suppressors from a dealer and sent in my form 4, along with a copy of my trust. In the mean time I purchased another. Dealer called me yesterday to let me know that I got a letter from the NFA Branch. All it said on it was "Trust may be insufficient. Schedule B."

I contacted the examiner (who was very nice) and she said the Trust referenced a Schedule B, and there was not one in my package. I explained that I had not included it because it had nothing on it, yet. My mistake. She was good enough to let me email it to her, and after an explanation, she offered to put a copy in my other open files so I wouldn't have to do this again.

Afterward, I called the dealer to let him know what was up and told him I sent a copy of my schedules to the examiner. His opinion was that they would send them back again because I had not added the items to the Schedule B. So, I sent another copy with all of the pending items added.

OK, here's the question: Do you add the item before or after you submit the form 4?

stimpsonjcat
February 01, 2013, 13:37
Pending items should NOT be on the Sch B until approved.

But BATFe wants to see some property in the trust to indicate it is funded/supplied/whatever.

I stuffed a bunch of firearms I want the daughter to have anyway in it before applying for my first form 1's...worked fine.

Some folks just put some cash in there.

Skilter
February 01, 2013, 18:58
Stimps...

It seems you have experience in this area... I have a corp and I think I want to put my stuff into a trust in case I sell the company. What are your thoughts on that? What is this Schedule B stuff?

I am thinking I buy a can and run it through the trust to see how things work and then if all is good I move everything over... (yeah... that is going to suck at $200 a piece...)

stimpsonjcat
February 01, 2013, 19:41
Actually should be schedule A. You use the Assignment of property form to put things in/out of the trust.

It is the actual listing of all property in the trust.

I don't know how things would be handled in a individual to trust transfer, but my bet would be $200 a pop.

OMR_RDTandE
February 01, 2013, 20:30
Actually should be schedule A. You use the Assignment of property form to put things in/out of the trust.

It is the actual listing of all property in the trust.

I don't know how things would be handled in a individual to trust transfer, but my bet would be $200 a pop.

Affirmative, Form 4 plus $200 and 6-8 months. DAMHIKT.

Skilter
February 01, 2013, 21:38
I figured I would get the $200 pop, but I was just wondering how the schedule thing works.

Sampson1986
February 02, 2013, 21:22
I just got my NFA trust set up.

I am confused as to why I have to show anything on my Schedule A when this is my first rodeo. What the ****? How can I show something in the trust when my Sten MK II will be my first NFA item?

yarro
February 03, 2013, 01:19
In most states, a trust has to have something over a specific value put in it on creation otherwise your trust may be invalid from the get go. Cash, magazines, gold, coins, title 1 firearms are all fine. Remember that under trust law there are no specific NFA trusts. You just happen to be using a trust as an entity to hold NFA items because the law allows trusts to possess them. Also, each state is a little different so your trust must meet the legal requirements of the state in which it was created. I put the money into the trust that was to be used to pay the transfer and for the first item that I was purchasing when mine was created. I always put the money into the trust that is to be used to pay for items so the trust pays for them not me.

-yarro

Tuhlmann
February 18, 2013, 21:16
I just received a stamp via trust. I sent in a blank Schedule A. Do not place the item you are applying for into the trust's Schedule A until you are legally able to possess the item.

Ted III
February 19, 2013, 02:26
The problem with examiners and Schedule B's seems to be an inconsistency in what each examiner wants to see on the form. There are no laws or set rulings on what needs to be on the 1st Schedule B filed with a trust. So each Examiner seems to be going by what they understand and what is needed.

If your examiner needs something in the Schedule B, add $1 as the 1st item of property if it's the first time your filing. Do not use pending items as property as they are not the actual property of the Trust until the stamp comes back.

I would not list other NON NFA firearms owned as property of the Trust when applying for a stamp but that is by personal choice. Other people do list NON NFA items but that is their choice.

Stranger
February 19, 2013, 12:28
Never had a problem with my trust property schedule that simply states "All NFA Items".

Kind of like putting "All legal purposes" in box 4i for why you intend to make an NFA item.

keiser
February 19, 2013, 14:39
The item you are applying for has been paid for by the trust so it should go on the schedule as it is an asset in the trust. However, you do not have actual possesion of the item as the class 3 dealer still has it until you get our tax stamp. I don't know how it can be said it isn't an asset of the trust if you already paid for it with trust funds.

Ted III
February 19, 2013, 19:03
The item you are applying for has been paid for by the trust so it should go on the schedule as it is an asset in the trust. However, you do not have actual possesion of the item as the class 3 dealer still has it until you get our tax stamp. I don't know how it can be said it isn't an asset of the trust if you already paid for it with trust funds.

I think the issue the examiners have is exactly what you pointed out. The trust doesn't actually have possession of the item(s) until the ATF says so. It would be nice if there were some consistency between all the examiners but that would probably take some legislation.