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dawg180
December 29, 2012, 00:11
http://i45.tinypic.com/5mk1vk.jpg

What do you think, cool or ugly? Daewoo with a real HK G36C stock.

I might get a stock knuckle rapid prototyped to see how it works.
I have tested the cheekweld and it is just about perfect, the stock is low enough that when folded the charging handle is clear (although brass would hit the top of the stock).

I have both some real and airsoft G36 stocks I have been goofing about with, the materials on both are fiber reinforced nylon, but the airsoft stocks are about 1/2 the price of the "real deal" HK parts. The only difference is that the stock knuckles and pins are larger on the airsoft stocks, thus meaning any adapter I make has to be for one or the other, but can't work for both.

Anyhow, feel free to post any comments. I have two Daewoos and if the rapid prototype comes to fruition and works well I might knock out a small batch of adapters. ;)

Sven

Dirt1042
December 29, 2012, 00:26
It looks ok, but how does it balance? I'm also not a huge fan of dragunov type looking stocks as when you crawl with them they like to snag.

dawg180
December 29, 2012, 11:47
The balance and LOP seems fine to me (14" LOP with the G36C stock, it would be possible to go to the K1 15" LOP with a standard G36 stock).

The buttpad on the G36 stocks is very tall, I may honestly prune an inch of the bottom and trim the buttpad to fit accordingly. But all in all it "feels" right, and IMHO looks a bit better than the ACE stock setup, looks a little more "factory OEM" to my eyes.

Dasho101
December 29, 2012, 13:05
i thank it looks good id roll with it and make an adapter for both and offer it as an option.

dawg180
December 29, 2012, 15:17
Real G36 stocks are about $70-$80, the airsoft copies are $25 and up to the task. That being said, I think the airsoft ones can be modified to work on a knuckle designed for the real G36 stock, and at $25 I don't mind experiementing to make it work.

I will see about knocking up a prototype and report back. :)

Bubacus
December 29, 2012, 23:23
Looks good...lines up with the receiver a bit better than this Galil stock.

http://lionellinismyhero.googlepages.com/IMG_4075.JPG

s0b3
December 30, 2012, 02:12
Looks good...lines up with the receiver a bit better than this Galil stock.

http://lionellinismyhero.googlepages.com/IMG_4075.JPG

that's a tapco ak stock i had modified.

dawg180, it'd be cool if you could make it a direct bolt on to avoid having the adapter. makes it a bit cleaner and keeps the cost down a little more.

IslandTimes
December 30, 2012, 19:26
My vote goes for making an adapter for the real HK stock. I've never been totally happy with the ACE adapter and skeleton stock, and would jump on this in a second.

N4KVE
December 31, 2012, 00:32
When folded to the right, does the HK stock clear the cocking handle? GARY

StormWerkz
December 31, 2012, 13:08
I think if you trim the stock on the CNC it would look a lot better
That long toe on the stock looks out of place to me.

Something like this
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v716/josh54880/Daewoo%20Stock%20Adapter/Misc%20Daewoo%20DR200/5mk1vk_zps214bd98d.jpg

dawg180
December 31, 2012, 16:28
When folded to the right, does the HK stock clear the cocking handle? GARY

Yes, it will clear the charging handle, although your brass may hit the top of the stock on the way out.

dawg180
December 31, 2012, 16:29
I think if you trim the stock on the CNC it would look a lot better
That long toe on the stock looks out of place to me.

Something like this
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v716/josh54880/Daewoo%20Stock%20Adapter/Misc%20Daewoo%20DR200/5mk1vk_zps214bd98d.jpg

Yup, that is exactly what I was thinking- you can chop about 1" off the toe of the stock and that is exactly what it will look like. I would leave it up to the end user to do that, I will just be making the adapters.

Dation
January 02, 2013, 20:04
I like the look of that. You could use a G36 block (www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Stock-Block-For-HK-SL8-Conversions-185p807.htm) to make a prototype. Would you be able to make it fit on a StormWerkz stock adapter or make your own?

dawg180
January 03, 2013, 15:08
The adapter would be its own piece that mounts between the DR200 and the G36 stock. You would just need a DR200 and a G36 stock, and then the adapter I would be making, you would not need a Stormwerkz adapter (no offense Josh, I love your adapters and have two of them right now!)

The prototype manufacture is not an issue at all, I do this stuff for a living. ;)

www.manticorearms.com

dawg180
January 12, 2013, 20:37
OK, working on two different ways of machining it to see which is more optimal on machine time. This is an "after hours" project, but I hop to have some numbers worked up in the next week or two.

IslandTimes
January 27, 2013, 18:46
Any update on this project?

dawg180
January 27, 2013, 22:09
In progress, just have been swamped with packing orders lately.

dawg180
June 05, 2013, 18:10
Finally got some time to work on this a little bit and got a "proof of concept" prototype worked up. No idea on cost of feasability of machining yet, that comes next.

Just need to get some bolts tonight and then i will post a picture tomorrow.

KaBoom
June 06, 2013, 20:19
If you put the slightest angle on the hinge-pin it will completely clear spent casings when folded, since you have to mock-up the knuckle anyway....

dawg180
June 06, 2013, 22:48
http://i42.tinypic.com/2vb8kz9.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/sd0aau.jpg

dawg180
June 06, 2013, 22:49
Cheekweld is perfect, your eye lines right up with the sight. The plate that the button locks into is bolted on with two screws that fit into adjustable slots, and therefore allows you to get the lock point on it just right so the stock locks open nice and snug. There is plenty of friction to hold it folded.

The charging handle has clearance to operate when folded, and it looks like brass will likely clear the folded stock too.

s0b3
June 06, 2013, 23:13
Cheekweld is perfect, your eye lines right up with the sight. The plate that the button locks into is bolted on with two screws that fit into adjustable slots, and therefore allows you to get the lock point on it just right so the stock locks open nice and snug. There is plenty of friction to hold it folded.

The charging handle has clearance to operate when folded, and it looks like brass will likely clear the folded stock too.

i like it. looks different. what's the weight savings? can those stocks be had for cheap? i'll risk getting flamed for this but will an airsoft stock work?

dawg180
June 07, 2013, 08:53
i like it. looks different. what's the weight savings? can those stocks be had for cheap? i'll risk getting flamed for this but will an airsoft stock work?

The stocks can be found for $60 at HKparts.net for the G36 model (which is one inch longer than the G36C stock pictured) and the G36C stock can be found for around $100, I think robertrtg.com has them.

I like the 1" shorter G36C stock as I am 5'6", but if you like the Daewoo K2 LOP the standard G36 stock is the way to go.

If the Airsoft stock takes a 5mm roll pin you should be good to go. Some take a 5mm pin and some take a 6mm pin, so you might have to drill and sleeve the stock if it takes the larger pin, but it should still work.

There is one machining issue I have to resolve on the hinge knuckle, but if we can figure that out and the price looks good I will probably make up a small batch (I have two guns I need them for myself! ;) )

s0b3
June 07, 2013, 13:20
The stocks can be found for $60 at HKparts.net for the G36 model (which is one inch longer than the G36C stock pictured) and the G36C stock can be found for around $100, I think robertrtg.com has them.

I like the 1" shorter G36C stock as I am 5'6", but if you like the Daewoo K2 LOP the standard G36 stock is the way to go.

If the Airsoft stock takes a 5mm roll pin you should be good to go. Some take a 5mm pin and some take a 6mm pin, so you might have to drill and sleeve the stock if it takes the larger pin, but it should still work.

There is one machining issue I have to resolve on the hinge knuckle, but if we can figure that out and the price looks good I will probably make up a small batch (I have two guns I need them for myself! ;) )

cool. didn't know the real ones were that affordable. was thinking they would be really proud of them like most of their products :)

keep us posted.

lawdog
June 10, 2013, 02:29
I really like the looks of it. It's dead sexy.

However, the practicality of it isn't as clear to me.

Because of all of the varying shapes and sizes that we come in and the different LOPs that we have, I really can't see much value in any stock that isn't readily adjustable for differing length of pulls.

If you could adjust the LOP on it, you'd have me down for two! Otherwise, it isn't for me. Sadly, I don't see anyway to adjust G36 stock LOP.

EODCOLRET
June 13, 2013, 09:47
I would definitely be in for one adapter and while I really would prefer one for the ACR stock, I would accept the G36 real stock. Whichever comes in first.

dawg180
June 16, 2013, 17:27
I tested the prototype this week, recoil feels very light with that monster buttpad, and the gun will cycle 100% with the stock folded.

dawg180
June 26, 2013, 08:45
I crunched some numbers this weekend, I think we can knock out a small batch of them (the adapter + adjustable adapter stock lock plate, you supply the stock) for around $115 each.

Let me know if there is any interest at that price point, this would be a one time run for this product.

EODCOLRET
June 26, 2013, 10:01
I crunched some numbers this weekend, I think we can knock out a small batch of them (the adapter + adjustable adapter stock lock plate, you supply the stock) for around $115 each.

Let me know if there is any interest at that price point, this would be a one time run for this product.

Price sounds still fair for me, so I am still in if you make them. If you don't maybe somebody will start making a ACR adaptor.

IslandTimes
June 26, 2013, 12:16
I'm for sure in.

dawg180
June 26, 2013, 14:04
OK, I'll see where we are on some other projects and see if we can slip this in to the schedule in the next couple of months.

FYI, you should be able to modify an airsoft stock to work by sleeving the pin hole down to 5mm, and also might need to grind the outside of the hinge knucles on the stock just a bit as they seem to run a little bit larger than the "real deal" stocks.

I also have a source for 5mm roll pins that are used for the hinge pins, so we can throw one of those in with the adapter block too. ;)

Sven
Manticore Arms

dawg180
July 03, 2013, 09:01
I actually had a brainstorm last night, and am working on a different direction for the stock solution- should be easier to make and look better to boot!

I will keep you guys informed, just have to price out a new material. :)

JeffHam
July 03, 2013, 22:38
I actually had a brainstorm last night, and am working on a different direction for the stock solution- should be easier to make and look better to boot!

I will keep you guys informed, just have to price out a new material. :)

Cheaper and better is definitley a good thing.

Love the look with this stock.

Put me down for one.

grenadier
July 06, 2013, 09:11
I'd be in for 1.

dawg180
July 08, 2013, 16:50
I am looking at a different direction, simply making a more "daewoo-like" stock that will mount directly to an ACE hinge. A lot of guys already have an Ace/Stormwerkz adapter and hinge along with ACE stock installed, so it really would be just a stock swap to get it looking all proper. It also would allow your choice of left or right side folding.

Here is one prototype mockup, I have a couple different versions I am working on.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p296/Dawg180/P1010086.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/Dawg180/media/P1010086.jpg.html)

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p296/Dawg180/P1010085.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/Dawg180/media/P1010085.jpg.html)

Dasho101
July 08, 2013, 21:38
if you do one like that will you set it up to take an m16 cleaning kit or have other storage (basic compartment maybe) cause that would make it a win in my books

vandal968
July 09, 2013, 00:35
Dawg180,
looks great. Are you making the stock from-scratch or is this a modification of an existing stock?

cheers,
v

dawg180
July 09, 2013, 08:29
The stock would be from scratch. We are investigating a couple of different materials and manufacturing methods. This is just one of two solid prototypes so far, I have about a dozen 3d models of various designs made up so far as design studies. The trick is to make it look factory and look "right" while keeping the proper comb height, length, and buttplate sized, all while making sure the gun can still operate with the stock folded. thus far it has been a very tricky balance.

The current design you see is close, but the trigger is a little hard to access when folded. I have another design that looks a bit more like anAR-180 stock that solves that, but am still playing a bit with the proportions.

I have played with both "skeleton" designs with the stock opened up on the side to save weight and with hollowed out stock designs, possibly with some type of storage. The skeleton is much easier, cheaper, and simpler to design, but of course everyone likes buttstock storage and solid stocks look cool too.

I may post a few of the stock renderings in the next few days just to see what you all think and get some feedback!

Sven

StormWerkz
July 09, 2013, 14:34
I really like the solid stock look !
I could care less about covering the trigger guard, I follow the Peter Kokalis rule - If it has a stock it , use it !

IslandTimes
July 09, 2013, 16:05
So besides being more expensive, what were the problems you were encountering with the G36 stock?

dawg180
July 09, 2013, 16:32
So besides being more expensive, what were the problems you were encountering with the G36 stock?

The G36 stock only folds one direction, the comb goes from rounded to squared off, and the buttpad is HUGE. ;)

It is useable, just trying to see if I can improve the looks and feel for the same price.

To be honest, this has been a pet project of mine for some time- I love the Daewoo (I have two, and always keep my eyes out for more!), but have always hated the ACE stock is really the only option, and it just doesn't look quite right. You can also mount AR stocks, but the solid AR stock is way too long LOP, and the M4 slider just doesn't feel good on the shoulder (at least for me) when shooting.

Really it will just come down to which option everyone likes best- if the vast majority of people prefer the G36 stock, I will probably make up a small batch of those, and if the vast majority like the final design for the ACE folder I come up with (which I might add would also work on any HK push pin stocked gun!) I would likely make up a small batch of those.

Sven
Manticore Arms

johnvanjr
July 14, 2013, 10:56
I'd love to see a solid folding stock that more closely resembles the ones on the pre ban rifles. I have a DR-200 and would be in for one if they come to market.

ftierson
July 14, 2013, 11:32
I really like the solid stock look !
I could care less about covering the trigger guard, I follow the Peter Kokalis rule - If it has a stock it , use it !

Although the G36 stock looks good, I agree with Josh...

Forrest

struckeagle
August 07, 2013, 09:18
Hi All,

new member here. Glad to be onboard and to be able to post on the forums.

I have a DR-200 that I am "building" and I would also be in the market for a solid stock/folder like the one pictured in this thread. (Even better if the final product was similar to the "paddle" style of the original woo stocks)

dawg180
August 07, 2013, 09:38
If guys don't mind the monster Length Of Pull on the original stock (I think it is something like 15.5") I certainly can get those made up too.

I am not a fan of the huge LOP on those stocks, but if everyone else wants them I can knock out a batch of them...

struckeagle
August 07, 2013, 10:20
Dawg,

What is the length of the prototype stock in your post #36 compared to the length of an original paddle stock? I have to admit that my woo has been a "safe queen" since I bought it. I have not fired it so, unfortunately, I can't judge what would be comfortable for me. How do the koreans manage with the original stock, being they are typically of smaller build than us. I really don't know. 15 inches does seem a bit long. Would prefer getting the DR-200 back to as close as factory configuration as possible. That is why I am interested in a paddle stock.

dawg180
August 07, 2013, 10:31
Dawg,

What is the length of the prototype stock in your post #36 compared to the length of an original paddle stock? I have to admit that my woo has been a "safe queen" since I bought it. I have not fired it so, unfortunately, I can't judge what would be comfortable for me. How do the koreans manage with the original stock, being they are typically of smaller build than us. I really don't know. 15 inches does seem a bit long. Would prefer getting the DR-200 back to as close as factory configuration as possible. That is why I am interested in a paddle stock.


The stock in post #26 has a 13" LOP. The LOP on a stock Remington 870 is 14", 13" is what some people consider "youth" sized but I personally find it very comfortable.

As for how the shorter S. Koreans manage the 15" LOP I have no idea, but that is what the K2 stock is. I guess maybe they just really lean into it.

struckeagle
August 07, 2013, 11:07
At two and a half inches longer, I am willing to try a paddle stock if it makes the DR look like an original/AR-100. I am assuming the StormWerks adapter and hinge is considered part of the LOP on your prototype. Maybe a slightly shorter LOP paddle stock would be the answer. 14 inches like on the Remington might be more comfortable. Does anyone on the forums have experience shooting pre-ban woos and can tell us if the paddle stock rifle is comfortable to shoot?

ftierson
August 07, 2013, 11:23
The stock in post #26 has a 13" LOP. The LOP on a stock Remington 870 is 14", 13" is what some people consider "youth" sized but I personally find it very comfortable.

As for how the shorter S. Koreans manage the 15" LOP I have no idea, but that is what the K2 stock is. I guess maybe they just really lean into it.

I have a K2 and, although I've never measured the LOP of the original folding stock, it is really too short for me.

Also, keep in mind that the thumbhole DR200 stock was made specifically for the US market to 'get around' our stupid import laws of that time.

I used Josh's adapter and an ACE FSM with the medium length ACE tubular stock on my DR200 and the LOP feels pretty good...

Forrest

dawg180
August 08, 2013, 17:20
I have a K2 and, although I've never measured the LOP of the original folding stock, it is really too short for me.

Also, keep in mind that the thumbhole DR200 stock was made specifically for the US market to 'get around' our stupid import laws of that time.

I used Josh's adapter and an ACE FSM with the medium length ACE tubular stock on my DR200 and the LOP feels pretty good...

Forrest

Can you measure the LOP on your K@ just to verify it for me? Also, can you measure the vertical height of the buttpad/buttplate?

ftierson
August 08, 2013, 19:41
Can you measure the LOP on your K@ just to verify it for me? Also, can you measure the vertical height of the buttpad/buttplate?

My daughter just got back from three months away and has a shitload of stuff piled up in front of the safe in question at the moment. As soon as I can wade through it all, I'll get some numbers for you...

Forrest

dawg180
January 01, 2014, 19:06
This one is still a "when time allows" but I havent forgot about it... :)

ftierson
January 01, 2014, 19:17
This one is still a "when time allows" but I havent forgot about it... :)

Actually, I had forgotten about it.

Sorry...

I'll see what I can do shortly...

Forrest

kursk
January 01, 2014, 22:32
I would be interested in purchasing one of these for my Daewoo.

ftierson
January 01, 2014, 23:44
This one is still a "when time allows" but I havent forgot about it... :)

The pile of crap in front of the safe hasn't changed much, but I dug through it... :)

This is for the Daewoo K2, of course.

With the hammer cocked, the distance from the center of the trigger to the center of the 'buttplate' measures 13 and 9/16 inches (probably is really designed to be 13 1/2 inches.

The synthetic 'buttplate' is rounded at the ends, top and bottom. The widest vertical dimension of the buttstock about 3/4-1 inch forward of the buttplate is about 4 1/2 inches and since the buttplate is curved to fit the shoulder, the distance between the two most rearward 'protrusions' is about 3 3/4 inches.

Sorry that it's taken me so long to get this to you...

Forrest

dawg180
January 02, 2014, 00:18
The pile of crap in front of the safe hasn't changed much, but I dug through it... :)

This is for the Daewoo K2, of course.

With the hammer cocked, the distance from the center of the trigger to the center of the 'buttplate' measures 13 and 9/16 inches (probably is really designed to be 13 1/2 inches.

The synthetic 'buttplate' is rounded at the ends, top and bottom. The widest vertical dimension of the buttstock about 3/4-1 inch forward of the buttplate is about 4 1/2 inches and since the buttplate is curved to fit the shoulder, the distance between the two most rearward 'protrusions' is about 3 3/4 inches.

Sorry that it's taken me so long to get this to you...

Forrest

Ah, perfect, thank you!

the gman
January 25, 2014, 18:24
How about an ACR stock adapter? :D I like the look of the solid stock but it would be nice to have an adjustable length of pull and comb height too....:bigangel: