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whirlibird
October 25, 2012, 19:56
Epic Glock 21 Gen 4 failure.

One of our local leo's had a kaboom today.

And a Gen4 is kaput because of it.

I won't put too many details here but a pic or two will follow in a couple of hours.

Shootability
October 25, 2012, 20:05
Squib, I reckon.

whirlibird
October 25, 2012, 20:50
Squib, I reckon.

Probably a double charge.

Exact cause I don't have but it's down to three possibilities.
All ammo related. (handload with jacketed bullet)

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq329/whirlibird41/KaBoom/100_4997.jpg

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq329/whirlibird41/KaBoom/100_5000.jpg

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq329/whirlibird41/KaBoom/100_5003.jpg

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq329/whirlibird41/KaBoom/100_5004.jpg

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq329/whirlibird41/KaBoom/100_5001.jpg

kotengu
October 26, 2012, 07:05
Wow - was he injured at all? What would a 1911 have done with the same ammo I wonder?

Shootability
October 26, 2012, 08:22
Appears to be in battery - looks like a case head failure. Dramatic indeed.

If they dismantle the gun I would like to see if the barrel is bulged.

W.E.G.
October 26, 2012, 08:25
Perhaps the correct title of the thread should not be "Glock failure,"
but rather "Defective ammo destroys Glock?"

NEWFNL1A1
October 26, 2012, 09:28
Wow - was he injured at all? What would a 1911 have done with the same ammo I wonder?

I had a friend in the early 80's who had a similar thing happen with a 38 Super 1911. It blew the mag out the bottom, blew the the wood grips loose (stripped out the grip screw holes) and he had a few burns where the hot gas escaped around the grips.

The gun frame and slide was fine but he decided to quit trying to step up the performance in that caliber with hot handloads. He went back to factory loads with it.

He was LEO and a long time reloader...his comment: "I guess that one was loaded a little too hot". He never got too upset about anything. :wink:

Timber Wolf
October 26, 2012, 09:35
Yep, I'm not surprised. Glock says not to use reloads in their guns.;);)

whirlibird
October 26, 2012, 10:01
The barrel and slide are within factory specs.
Yes case head failure, no injuries but his pride.

It has been completely disassembled, which was a chore.

I can say from personal experience with 1911's, yes more than one 1911, that nothing would have happened with to the gun.
I had a trio of failures with a 10mm (bad cases), and the gun is still running like a champ. (unmodified factory ramp and barrel)
Another involved a horrible over ramping job by a hack gunsmith on a repair job that I was trying to diagnose.

Yes we all know about no reloads in a Glock. This was a "case" of bad ammo and what can happen.

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq329/whirlibird41/KaBoom/100_5008.jpg

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq329/whirlibird41/KaBoom/100_5017.jpg

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq329/whirlibird41/KaBoom/100_5007.jpg

spider991
October 26, 2012, 11:02
Yep, I'm not surprised. Glock says not to use reloads in their guns.;);)

Thats why i cringe when i see people buying reloads at the gun show, man u got no idea what mental case reloaded them....i have shot thousands of reloads out of my glocks,rugers,any bout any firearm i own...but i know and trust the yahoo who did them(me):rofl:

olgier
October 26, 2012, 11:09
I'm going to guess he blew up a brand new gun? That thing has not seen but a few rounds by the looks of it.

ftierson
October 26, 2012, 11:20
Thats why i cringe when i see people buying reloads at the gun show, man u got no idea what mental case reloaded them....i have shot thousands of reloads out of my glocks,rugers,any bout any firearm i own...but i know and trust the yahoo who did them(me):rofl:

About sums it up...

Forrest

W.E.G.
October 26, 2012, 11:29
Am I seeing a bulge in the barrel?

As in, this is what happens when you fire a normal round while the bullet from the preceding round is stuck in the barrel?

Right Side Up
October 26, 2012, 11:51
The case is far too unsupported in that design. That's why I'll never own one. They're inherently dangerous.

shlomo
October 26, 2012, 16:36
Am I seeing a bulge in the barrel?

As in, this is what happens when you fire a normal round while the bullet from the preceding round is stuck in the barrel?

Kindy looks like the primer extruded back into the F/P hole, too. Hmm...

whirlibird
October 26, 2012, 17:44
No bulge, barrel within factory specs.

And brand new as of 6 months ago. Had maybe 400 rounds through it.

Glock is gonna work with him.

Tibodoe
October 26, 2012, 20:44
Ouch, how did his hands make it unscathed?

VALMET
October 26, 2012, 21:01
Perhaps the correct title of the thread should not be "Glock failure,"
but rather "Defective ammo destroys Glock?"
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

4x401
October 26, 2012, 21:21
In the immortal words of the Black Knight "Tis but a scratch".:rofl:

Heck, all that 21 needs is a new frame.:rolleyes:



You want to see some serious carnage, check out the results of my Bullseye double charge..........

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m44/4x401cj/G-21009.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m44/4x401cj/G-21020.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m44/4x401cj/G-21013-1.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m44/4x401cj/G-21006.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m44/4x401cj/G-21017.jpg

My right hand looked pretty bad too....:rofl:

0302
October 27, 2012, 22:49
I have reloaded a lot of .40 s&w for my glock 27 but I always stay in the middle of the mad/min powder charges and away from max. I always load the case with powder, visually check it, then seat the bullet using a single stage press, which is about the slowest way to do it but it seems to be about fool proof.

whirlibird
November 16, 2012, 14:47
Glock checked out the barrel and slide, they were/are fine.
So a new frame and lower guts later, he's got his gun back.
Minimal charge too.

I may not like Glocks but they did this one right.

STGThndr
November 16, 2012, 21:18
Cripin criminy! Phlog me too.. Reminds me of why I stayed away from Glocks so many years. Mebbe I should put my 21 on the market. Sure makes me think about that. Gotta say, various 1911's have swallowed everything Ive put thru them and they are trusty. Seems as if Glock still hasnt escaped the "hand-bomb" .45 reputation!

garyd1961
November 16, 2012, 23:44
From what I understand the problem with reloads in a Glock is when you shoot a round the case will buldge slightly. Not unsafe but if you reload the same round and fire it in a Glock again the weakened case can rupture. As long as you shoot factory ammo there shouldn't be any problems.
If you want to shoot reloads buy a barrel with a fully supported chamber.

4x401
November 17, 2012, 01:28
From what I understand the problem with reloads in a Glock is when you shoot a round the case will buldge slightly. Not unsafe but if you reload the same round and fire it in a Glock again the weakened case can rupture. As long as you shoot factory ammo there shouldn't be any problems.
If you want to shoot reloads buy a barrel with a fully supported chamber.

Thats not accurate.

Shooting reloads in a Glock compare the same as shooting reloads in anything else.
Most all semi autos have slightly un-supported chambers..All at the feed ramp.

Continued firing of reloaded brass will form a hip in the web area of the brass. Be it .45 ACP, .40 S&W, 9mm, etc... And that goes for all semi-auto makes. There are tools that can iron out the hip in semi-auto brass, but proper sizing corrects the issue also.

I have .45 ACP brass thats been through my G-21's, Colt & Taurus 1911's, at least a dozen times...Still working fine.

99% of Glock KaBooms can be traced to bad ammo, thats a fact.

If you actualy investigate all the Glock disasters you will see a direct corralation between them being issue PD, and that PD using remanufactued ammo for practice/duty.

Shooting Crappy reloaded ammo in a Glock will net the same result as shooting it in a Colt, Sig, et all....A blowed up gun.

VALMET
November 17, 2012, 08:26
4x401 is right on the money with the above post. For every shooter who has had a significant "failure" in a Glock and slams the guns, 99.9% of the time you will be able to find tens of thousands of shooters who have put thousands of rounds downrange with their Glocks without any problems. I own 8 of them and have put approx 15k rounds thru them over the past few years and only have 2 stovepipes to report. Aside from the handful of E-series G-22s (the "kaboom" guns, circa 2001 mfg) that had some frame/slide problems that Glock recalled- they are the finest handguns money can buy IMO.

garyd1961
November 17, 2012, 20:44
I was in no way slamming Glock. I was just passing on what I found on the net while researching my G22. I only have one Glock but I carry it everyday because I know I can trust it to save my life if needed.

4x401
November 18, 2012, 00:27
I was in no way slamming Glock. I was just passing on what I found on the net while researching my G22. I only have one Glock but I carry it everyday because I know I can trust it to save my life if needed.

Didn't see your post as "Slamming Glock". :beer:

I saw it as the continuing proliferation of mis-information concerning Glock firearms.

Not everything written on "The net" is accurate, or true.....Perfect example would be you believing everything that comes out of Jefferyc22's pie hole as being the gospel.:rolleyes:

JeffJ
November 18, 2012, 01:19
Of course it blew up, its plastic!!:devil:

W.E.G.
November 18, 2012, 08:27
they are the finest FIGHTING handguns money can buy IMO.

FIFY.

Were money no object, and "fighting" not the primary criteria, we could debate all day what is best.

At the end of the day, I think what is best for a fella, is that which is most evocative, and is most "complete" - indeed an elusive concept for consensus.

If I were allowed only own one gun, I think it might be something like this:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/SW624g002.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/SW624008.jpg

...and without the hullabaloo

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/DSC_0186.jpg

These guns belong to somebody else, but my thoughts are toward this sort of thing as I downsize the mountain of stuff I've accumulated over all these years.

homelandprotector
November 18, 2012, 11:37
44 Special, probably the best most effective gun ever made... :]

Awesome ballistics >> http://www.ballistics101.com/44_special.php

They blow up too....

http://imageshack.us/a/img855/1193/squib29.jpg

JB Books
November 18, 2012, 15:09
I can show you what a 1911 would have done.

Colt Delta Elite 10mm with 4 bullets in barrel

a friend's gun who tried reloading. Fourth round blow the magazine out and bulged the grips from the frame to point I could place my finger between them and the frame . The slide was locked shut.

notice slight bulge in barrel just in front of locking lugs

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/allproblemsolved/fourms/Colt%2010mm/left.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/allproblemsolved/fourms/Colt%2010mm/right.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/allproblemsolved/fourms/Colt%2010mm/bullets.jpg

primer fell out when I got the slide open
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/allproblemsolved/fourms/Colt%2010mm/breech.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/allproblemsolved/fourms/Colt%2010mm/case.jpg

the Colt after I replaced the barrel and straighten the grips.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/allproblemsolved/fourms/Colt%2010mm/DE.jpg

shoots just fine

garyd1961
November 18, 2012, 17:17
How did he manage to stack the bullets in the barrel like that? I would have thought the second one would have been a KA-BOOM.
4X401 are you saying it's ok to reload 40 cal brass out of a G22? Everthing that I have read said it's not wise to do so. Not saying you are wrong just want to be clear. It does seem to me nearly all the failures are with relaods. I only shoot new factory loaded ammo so it really doesn't matter to me.
On another note, I just discovered my G22 is on a recall list for frame rail failure. I'm not really concerned about it as only a tiny percentage actually fail but do any of you think I should contact Glock?

VALMET
November 18, 2012, 17:30
Gary- not sure how much you use your G-22 and it would prob be fine as is but if it were me I'd send it back to Glock. They announced the recall due to an identified gliche and will fix/replace it for free...why not?

JB Books
November 18, 2012, 17:57
How did he manage to stack the bullets in the barrel like that? I would have thought the second one would have been a KA-BOOM.


I don't know, as I wasn't there. When he brought me the pistol he said the pistol failed to eject and he cycled the slide by hand and kept firing and it blew up on the third round after the failure to eject. All I can say about the colt is she is one tough little bitch..

I know it isn't a fake because I am the one who machined the side out of the barrel and still have it.

4x401
November 18, 2012, 18:56
How did he manage to stack the bullets in the barrel like that? I would have thought the second one would have been a KA-BOOM.
4X401 are you saying it's ok to reload 40 cal brass out of a G22? Everthing that I have read said it's not wise to do so. Not saying you are wrong just want to be clear. It does seem to me nearly all the failures are with relaods. I only shoot new factory loaded ammo so it really doesn't matter to me.
On another note, I just discovered my G22 is on a recall list for frame rail failure. I'm not really concerned about it as only a tiny percentage actually fail but do any of you think I should contact Glock?

I personaly saw an AMT Hardballer barrel that looked just like that 10mm barrel.:rofl:

Gary-
I've been reloading for 30+ years. Using reloaded brass in ANY firearm is completely safe as long as its properly prepared.

And your absolutely right, 99% of the KaBoom's are from Reloaded ammo.
Buts thats not neccesarily because of reconditioned brass being used.
It's usually because the round has been over, or under charged. Both of those mistakes cause grave consequences in ANY firearm.

The consequence of Over-charging (and drinking while reloading), is clearly the reason for my KaBoom shown here. Totaly my fault.

I'll also add that if your pistol is on the recall list, send it back.
If you don't and have a problem down the road, you really can only blame yourself.

garyd1961
November 18, 2012, 20:11
Thanks JB and 4X401, I will give Glock a call to confirm if my gun is on the list and do whatever they recomend.
As for the Ka-Booms, I was worried about my G22 40 cal when I got it but since I don't shoot reloads I don't worry about the it exploding anymore. I just found out about the frame recall today.

heiliggeiste
November 22, 2012, 22:48
I've had two different glocks go kaboom on me both PD guns M22 / M23 .40 SW . Both looked identical to the OP gun except the m22 cracked the barrel at the chamber and the m23 didn't . Both frames were ok ,but had to replace mag catch /barrel. Both were attributed to sticking firing pin /safety reset buttons . In my oppinion a bad design flaw. The sticking safety reset button causes the firing pin to stick out of the slide and not retract causing O.O.B. explosions. I would suggest taking this part out frequently and cleaning and/or replacing. I have totally lost my faith in Glocks from my own personael experiences