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View Full Version : Results: FN49 30-06 Survey (moved to C&R)


Goose52
January 25, 2002, 18:33
First, my thanks to all respondents who took the time to capture and provide the requested data

The purpose of this survey was to determine the approximate number of FN49 rifles that were purchased by each of the six countries that selected FN49s in the 30-06 (7.62x63) chambering. The survey only asked for the identity of the rifle by contract (country) and by serial number.

I received reports on a total of 93 rifles of which 49 were chambered in 30-06. Many respondents included information on FN49s in the other chamberings and also included additional information concerning receiver scope mount dovetails and other distinguishing features. With hindsight, I wish that I had originally asked for this information in the original survey request. I have captured all information that was provided and have seen enough interesting data that I will be soon start another survey for rifles in the Egyptian, Venezuelan, and Argentine contracts.

An important note is that I only capture serial numbers down to a block of 100 numbers (i.e., 99XX) and I DO NOT retain any actual names or Board names/nicknames with the data. This limits the fidelity of my data, but protects everyone’s privacy.

Here is what I have:

Luxembourg (“AL” crest) – 31 rifles – Ser. No. range from 10XX to 71XX.
Notes: Scope cut present on most / all rifles above 57XX. Also scope cut present on no. 35XX, 42XX, 50XX.

Belgium (“ABL” crest) – 1 rifle – Ser. No. 389XX.
Notes: No scope cut data on this rifle. Received reports of 5 stocks, purchased from Northridge International, that are purported to be Belgian/ABL ‘take-offs’ – high serial number was 872XX. Of the 30-06 contracts, it could be assumed that only Belgium would have bought as many as 87,000+ rifles.

Colombia – 4 rifles – 00XX, 02XX, 05XX, 09XX.
Note: Scope cut on 02XX.

Belgian Congo – 1 rifle – 13XX.
Note: This rifle has a mismatched receiver cover with Ser. No. 25XX. If the receiver cover was indeed part of the Congo contract then this could mean as many as 2600 rifles in this contract.

Dutch East Indies & Brazil – no data.

Unknown Contract – 7 rifles – high serial number of 857XX.
Note: These rifles were identified by one respondent as a result of reviewing many years worth of auction data (thanks!). These particular rifles were listed in the auction data by chambering and serial number, but not by contract.

NO CREST PRESENT: 5 rifles – Ser. No. range from 54XX to 56XXX.
Notes: Some owners felt that their rifle had never had a crest, some had the feeling that the crest had been ground and the receiver refinished. Upon inquiry, none of these owners indicated that the rifle had a muzzle brake which was mentioned in the Poyer book as being one of the features on the “commercial” model sold by FN/Browning in 1961.

Assumptions (not proven by fact):

Serial numbers started at 0000 for all contracts
Serial numbers ran consecutively.
No reserved blocks of numbers.
Only Belgium would have bought as many as 87,000+ rifles.

Results:

Of the 125,072 FN49s said to have been produced in 30-06, we can account for approximately 97,000 of them (rounding UP to nearest hundred) as follows:

Luxembourg: 7200
Belgium: 87300 (including Ser. Nos. from stocks)
Colombia: 1000
Congo: 1400 (perhaps 2600)
Indonesia & Brazil = unknown

****************************************

I had promised to post the results of the survey on the Boards and I have not received any new data in the past week so I felt it was time to post this data.

If anyone has more data that they would care to contribute regarding 30-06 chambered FN49s, or if you have already responded but would like to report your scope cut or any other distinctive features on your rifle, send that along to me at fn49fan@earthlink.net or post on this thread. Remember that I have not saved your name in my data, only your rifle serial number (with 2XXs) so if you are contributing more data, reference your rifle number.

I will be starting another survey on the other FN49 series soon and, with your cooperation, will be drilling down a bit deeper on the data.

Thanks again,

Goose

[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: Goose52 ]

[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: EMDII ]

vmtz
January 26, 2002, 07:57
Wow, great work.


Vince

NZ L1A1 Collector
January 26, 2002, 15:08
Great work :) If I find anymore SAFN's I will let you know the details...... I might have to start collecting those too LOL

Goose52
January 26, 2002, 18:54
Thanks guys. Next survey coming soon . . . :D

Goose

fn-d
January 27, 2002, 08:56
Anyone care to comment on the lack of
Belgium-contract rifles in this country.
One would think, there would be at
least a container full.

-Robbie

PS Great work on the serial numbers.
Need to get back to you with a
couple numbers.

[ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: fn-d ]

vmtz
January 27, 2002, 09:11
Someone posted on gunandknife.com that they were trying to get some imported here as C&R's. It fell through when it was discovered that they were sear cut. I would imagine that that is the reason that there are not more Belgium-contract guns here. Just a guess.

Vince

Goose52
January 27, 2002, 12:11
I have a working theory on the lack of Belgian "ABLs" here in the U.S. This theory is not supported by any evidence yet.

I reviewed 10 years worth of old American Rifleman magazines from the late 50s until 1968; you can see where they started importing the Venezuealan 7x57s. You also see ads for 30-06s but they didn't specify the contract. Given the number of Luxies (AL) that appear in the survey, it appears that these 30-06s that were for sale in the 60s were probably all Luxembourgs.

GCA '68 cut-off the import of milsurp rifles until the 1986 law was passed. I have a feeling that Belgium did not excess/surplus their FN49 rifles until after GCA '68 and they were sold in other parts of the world like Australia, New Zealand, etc. By the time the 1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act was passed, that once again allowed the import of milsurps, the ABLs were long gone . . .

Whatcha think folks?

Goose

Squint
January 27, 2002, 12:50
Goose, I already replied on Milsurpshooter but am pasting the post here also for yor viewing pleasure.

Thanks Goose. I forgot to tell you that I have a 30.06 stock on my AL rifle that is serial #63831. I bought it as a replacement for the one that came on my rifle ( I already gave you the rifle serial# on the FAL files.) It appeared to be new or almost new so it may have been a replacement part. The stock that came on the rifle did not match the rifle's serial # either (the only non matching #'d part and it has a large ding in it.) It is # 6998. Hope that helps. I don't have an Egyptian gun anymore so I can't help you with your next survey.

Goose52
January 27, 2002, 17:17
Thanks. Your stock number is right in the range that I've been seeing for the replacement stocks.

Goose

awp101
February 04, 2002, 22:29
How's aboot one more to throw into the mix?

AL crest
SN 45XX (what year would that be or how can I find out?)
Scope cut

At the front, left side of the receiver is a stamped flaming bomb(maybe an 8?) and a 0.

To the right of the "AL" crest is a * over a K or H and to the rear of those marks are the following: <<<---- these open toward the barrel.

On the bbl near the receiver is the * over H or K mark and under that is a crown over an oval with an E(?) over LG inside the oval.

No import marks, no cal marked and my Grandfather swears he bought it at Montgomery Wards in the mid-to-late 60s.

Sorry for the delay and I HTH!

Goose52
February 04, 2002, 22:54
Ha - it was a Luxie afterall.

I remember your original post on this last month. I said that if it really was the will-of-the-wisp 1961 commercial model that I would be throwing lots of money at Grandpa to buy his rifle ! ! !

Anyway, thanks for the data and I'll plug it in. He probably did buy it at MonkeyWards. Lots of milsurps sold in the department stores.

Just FYI - nearly all 30-06 and 7mm FN49s were imported before GCA68 so they typically won't have import marks.

The flaming bomb is a Belgian/Luxembourg Ordnance marking - almost identical to the equivalent US Ord. Dept. marking - the "bomb0" marking is common. No one knows what it means . . . we just see it a lot. Could mean an arsenal inspection, refurb, inspection before long term storage, etc.

The oval w/crown is a Belgian proof mark. Most of the other little markings I haven't tried to tackle yet.

On the serial number - you can't tell when it was made from that . . . there is just no data available and FN ain't talking. Most folks agree that the FN49 was only in production from '49 till '53 but no one knows for sure.

Thanks for the data good buddy!

Goose

law4fun
February 11, 2002, 15:10
Hey Guys (and Gals),
Don't forget to add to this thread if you have any info that will help Goose. Between here, Gunboards and Parallax's sites, hopefully he can get a respectable database that we can use.
Jim

Goose52
February 11, 2002, 15:26
I'm shakin' the bushes and giving it my best shot . . . almost 180 rifles (of all contracts) so far! :)

I also have posts on Firing Line and AssaultWeb but not much luck with those folks :(

Goose

Deltaten
February 13, 2002, 19:12
So Goose, how's ya makin' out w/the 8mm database?

I'm impressed w/all the work you've put into this effort. Not sure about the other boards, but I feel safe in saying, it's appreciated here! Thanks much,

Paul

Goose52
February 13, 2002, 21:26
Paul . . . Thanks for the kind words.

I'm on a business trip, sittin' in the hotel room, and didn't bring my FN49 file with me BUT, as I recall, I've got data on about 60-75 8mm rifles so far. We've learned a few things about the 8mms. However, the 8mms are a particularly tough nut to crack because so many have been rebuilt and are non-matching. The other available contracts (Luxies, Vennies, Argies) are much more constant in their configurations.

Responses are dropping off on all the boards so I've got to start crunching the numbers and typing up the results. Hope to get to it in a week or so and then I'll post on all the boards.

My thanks to the folks on this board as I've gotten more data from the FAL family than I have from the other boards!

You guys get your reading glasses ready 'cause the post of the results from the surveys is gonna be lonnnnnggggg !

Goose

Goose52
February 20, 2002, 19:37
I'm up to 195 rifles in the data base . . . any more 30-06 owners out there :D :D :D

Goose

Gopher
February 23, 2002, 09:47
Goose, my theory on the Belgium FN49's is that alot of them were lost in the Belgium
Congo civil wars. I seem to remember pictures of both regular forces and Simbas
with FN49's.

Goose52
February 23, 2002, 10:23
Gopher,

The Congolese-contract rifles actually had a separate crest (an FP and a standing lion). There are a few of those in the U.S. but not very many. One person from Australia said that he thought that the Congolese rifles were serial numbered in the same series at the Belgian contract - I have no positive info on that, and for now I'm treating the "FPs" as a different contract/series than the "ABL" (Belgians).

So, the rifles that you saw could be "ABLs" that went south and were lost down there OR could have just been the Congolese rifles that were specifically purchased for service down there!

Who knows! The only fact that I know for sure is that there are very few of the ABLs in the U.S. and I wish there were MANY more ! :D :D :D

Goose