The fools! The poor saps!

[awp101]

Heh, ATF just cashed my check so now to settle in for the wait.

Can we say C&R kids? Knew ya could! ;)

[law4fun]

Look out AIM and Centruy...Andrew's credit cards will never be the same again.
:eek: :D :eek:

[awp101]

Originally posted by law4fun:
<STRONG>Look out AIM and Centruy...Andrew's credit cards will never be the same again.
:eek: :D :eek:</STRONG>

No, I'D better look out for the CC statement!

Yes dear, I'm going to sell plasma after work. Why do you ask? ;)

[gates]

AWP-congrats

if you havnt already aquired them i would get

1. a swiss k31 from AIM
2. a finn m39 from WG&A (they can be difficult over the phone-as in not nice)
3. and if you have any $ leftover id get a persian mauser from Samco Global.

these are my alltime favorite milsurps and the most accurate open site rifles i have ever owned.(no i have not owned a m96 sweed)
they will all hold 1.5 m.o.a. or less.

ammo wise i got a great deal on some 198gr
n/c 8mm port. from sarco for $158/800 (persian mauser)

aim has gp11 for the k31 - expensive(aim is the cheapest) but must have for max accuracy.

and claflin has copper washed russian 7.62x54r for $89.99/880

the best part is you can get ALL that stuff
for les than the cost of one well built FAL.

aj

[awp101]

Originally posted by gates:
<STRONG>1. a swiss k31 from AIM</STRONG>

Too late, done did got one! :D

Guess I go to the M39 and M44 series next followed by a Mauser of some sort...

If only they'd made some of these rifles as Paras... :D :eek:

[hockeyfan_019]

I'm working on bullpupping a '98 Mauser right now... 8X57 power in a 24" package... AND with cheap ammo...

[Goose52]

Hmmmm - 24" - You might want to make that 26" unless you're going to register it with the Feds as a short-barreled rifle and can play with under 26" per your state law ! :eek:

Goose

[Munster30]

Gates wrote: 3. and if you have any $ leftover id get a persian mauser from Samco Global.


I can heartily second that. I got one of their "select", not the unissued. It has to be one of the best looking rifles in the collection. All matching, including the bayonet. Looks like it was only used on guard duty and not dragged through hell, finish is about 99++%. No buggered up screws, and the bore is pristine.
If you get any one rifle, that's the one, they are gorgeous. :D :)

[idsubgun]

Originally posted by Hockeyfan_019:
<STRONG>I'm working on bullpupping a '98 Mauser right now... 8X57 power in a 24" package... AND with cheap ammo...</STRONG>

What Goose said.
You must have at least a 16" barrel length and 26" overall length for a rifle.

A shotgun must be 18" on the barrel with 26" overall.

[gman]

Awp101,
Ditto Munster. Persians are way cool. I tell you...this rifle looked unfired. No Joke. I have fired ONLY new Winchester brass, Hornady bullets and Winchester LR mag primers in this and it is sweet. This rifle deserves only the best. Long barrel=very little muzzle blast.

I am waiting on my tax return and am looking for the M39 Moison. I am still doing the research though. I would like to get one with the older style hexagonal receiver.

[ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: gman ]

[law4fun]

Gman: I have never seen an M39 that did not have a hex receiver. M44's and 91/30's have round receivers, but according to Tuco and Vic over on gunboards.com, all 39's are hex. This may be incorrect, but I believe that is what they have written. All of my 39's are hex.
Hope this helps.
Jim

[law4fun]

Gman,
Take a look here, if you haven't already.... http://www.mosin-nagant.net/finnish_mosin_nagantm39.htm

[EMDII]

The M-44 is both handsome and a hoot to shoot! I have a BF 5XXX Hungarian, absolutely gorgeous and a real ear-opener at the range!

[ February 02, 2002: Message edited by: EMDII ]

[cllary]

Originally posted by EMDII:
<STRONG>The M-44 is both handsome and a hoot to shoot! I have a BF 5XXX Hungarian, absolutely gorgeous and a real ear-opener at the range!

[ February 02, 2002: Message edited by: EMDII ]</STRONG>
Not to mention the huge fireball these things spit out. Have someone video you shooting at night for the full effect (and my wife says I'm no fun anymore, HAH!)

[EMDII]

Originally posted by law4fun:
<STRONG>...I have never seen an M39 that did not have a hex receiver. M44's and 91/30's have round receivers, but according to Tuco and Vic over on gunboards.com, all 39's are hex. This may be incorrect, but I believe that is what they have written. All of my 39's are hex.
Hope this helps.
Jim</STRONG>

TW Lapin (The Mosin Nagant Rifle: North Cape) indicates that the m/91-30 is the only model which employed a significant number of ROUND- rather than polyogonal- receiver rings.

In addition, he indicates ALL Finn rifles are hybrid, and WILL have Russian Tsarist or Communist markings in addition to their Finnish markings. All Finn will be a combination of Finnish, Russian, Swiss, German, Belgian and even French or American Chattellerault-order guns.

Type 1 receivers (here we go!) are hexagonal, used on all rifles made from 1891-1930.

Type 2 receivers were designed for the 91/30, and are rounded inthe vicinity of the clip guide. The chamber area is round. It is found on all M-N manufactured after 1930, EXCEPT the FINNISH rifles.

Type 3
replaced the Type 2 starting in 1942 on the 91/30, 5h3 38 carbine, and 44 carbines made during the Great patriotic War. Little scalloping in the receiver area.

The Type 4 was unique to Poland's M-44. it has a large scallop.

The Soviets continued to use in-stock Type 1 receivers made as late as 1936.

Americans used Type 1.
Hungarians Type 2.
Romanians Type 3.
The list is extensive.

[awp101]

Originally posted by EMDII:
<STRONG>even French or American Chattellerault-order guns.
Americans used Type 1.
Hungarians Type 2.
Romanians Type 3.
The list is extensive.</STRONG>

Are you (or rather your book) confirming Chatterault and Winchester WWI production Ted?

There was a question about this in my thread
with the 91/30 edumacation link info.

[EMDII]

Originally posted by awp101:
<STRONG>

Are you (or rather your book) confirming Chatterault and Winchester WWI production Ted?

There was a question about this in my thread
with the 91/30 edumacation link info.</STRONG>

YES-

The Russian government contracted w/ Remington to supply 1.5 MILLION M1891 rifles and 100,000,000 rounds of ammunition. They contracted another 1.8 MILLION from New England Westinghouse.

Many were converted post-War to .30-06 by Bannerman's.

The Russians placed an order w/ Chattellerault in 1892 for 503,000 rifles. The 503,539th rifle was delivered in 1895. These are identified by 'Chattellerault' in Cyrillic stamped on the receiver ring. See page 189 of Lapin's book. French parts are stamped with a C-in-circle.

[awp101]

Originally posted by EMDII:
<STRONG>YES-

The Russian government contracted w/ Remington to supply 1.5 MILLION M1891 rifles and 100,000,000 rounds of ammunition. They contracted another 1.8 MILLION from New England Westinghouse.

Many were converted post-War to .30-06 by Bannerman's.

The Russians placed an order w/ Chattellerault in 1892 for 503,000 rifles. The 503,539th rifle was delivered in 1895. These are identified by 'Chattellerault' in Cyrillic stamped on the receiver ring. See page 189 of Lapin's book. French parts are stamped with a C-in-circle.</STRONG>

Roger, that's a good copy. Will post in appropriate thread.

Sehr danke mein Herr! Or given the subject matter, Spasebo tovarich!

[law4fun]

Originally posted by EMDII:
<STRONG>

TW Lapin (The Mosin Nagant Rifle: North Cape) indicates that the m/91-30 is the only model which employed a significant number of ROUND- rather than polyogonal- receiver rings.

In addition, he indicates ALL Finn rifles are hybrid, and WILL have Russian Tsarist or Communist markings in addition to their Finnish markings. All Finn will be a combination of Finnish, Russian, Swiss, German, Belgian and even French or American Chattellerault-order guns.

</STRONG>

That, to me, is the beauty of the Finn rifles. When I find an M39 that retains the Czarist eagles, it is a bonus. Most were pinged because the Finns hated the Czar just as much as they hated the communist regeime. I have never seen an M39 with soviet markings on the receiver ring. I would love to and buy one just for the variation in the collection. Likewise for a round receiver version. Some say they exist...others say they don't.

As you know, the M39 was produced into the early 70's with no markings on the Hex receivers other than S/N and date. Totally scrubbed as these were allegedly a violation of the Winter War and subsequent treaties that were executed between Finland and the USSR.
Sorry for the rambling, but the M39, next to the FAL, is a collecting passion. ;)

[EMDII]

Pazholusty!

[Munster30]

I don't know if it's any indicator of an increasing supply. But, I saw some Remington and Westinghouse 91's at the gun-show last month. I thought it a bit unusual because I've only seen a couple of others years ago, and not at the same time.
These were in "good" conition, leaning at fair. However they still had the imperial crests intact. That's another shoulda-woulda-coulda in hindsight.

[DABTL]

I recomend the Venezuelan FN 24/30 for the Mauser purchase.

7mm Mauser with the receiver in he white. No better looking gun ever made.

Pricey, but with a cc who cares?

[archy]

More info on the Finnish weapons of the Winter War <a href="http://www.winterwar.com/weapons.htm"> *here*</a> Don't miss the interesting and fascinating data to be found at Pete Kekkonen's <a href="http://guns.connect.fi/gow/gunwriters.html">*Finnish Gunwriters on the Web/ GOW site *here*.</a>

And there's a review of sorts of tDoug Bowser's excellent reference on Finnish military rifles <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:6HLFqKrrvvUC:www.subguns.com/gunsmoke/gs6.htm+gunsmoke+war+cold+place&hl=en"> Rifles of the White Death *here*</a>. I can't say much for the reviewer, but Bowser's book is pretty good.

-archy-/-

[gman]

Thanks for the great links, I've bookmarked them.

I became confused because of the Finn refits, I thought they would have left the stocks alone, I mistook them for the M44 due to the "carbine" designation. Now I find out they replaced the stocks and it looks like barrel length is cut down.

I know this may sound goofy but I really like the look of the m91/30 long rifles funky reverse curve, potbellied looking stock. If I could find one of those that could shoot as well as everyone is saying the Finn rifles shoot, that would be The One.

[Munster30]

A good site on the Finnish rifles.
Finnish Rifles (http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/finn.htm)
Has photos of some real Finnish beauties too ;) :cool: At least ones that my wife will let me look at. :D

[awp101]

Originally posted by Munster30:
<STRONG>I don't know if it's any indicator of an increasing supply. But, I saw some Remington and Westinghouse 91's at the gun-show last month. I thought it a bit unusual because I've only seen a couple of others years ago, and not at the same time.
These were in "good" conition, leaning at fair. However they still had the imperial crests intact. That's another shoulda-woulda-coulda in hindsight.</STRONG>

I just saw IOs ad in the latest SGN and they have em listed "starting @ $89.95".

From most every review I've read dealing with ANY IO purchase, you pays yer money and takes yer chances.

(Yes, I'm sure there are many happy IO customers, but I base my statements on what I've read.)

[Sgt Rock]

My personal experience. IO is a crap shoot. Liar liar pants on fire. Never again. Restocking fee for sending parts not as stated! Once bitten twice shy.