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kroberts
March 27, 2012, 16:41
I am looking at an article in the paper from Joint Base San Antonio, called Wingspread. Used to be the base paper from Randolph AFB but it's not called an AFB any more...it's called a Joint Base...it's what happened when Ft. Sam and Randolph mated, they became a Joint Base..but I digress.

Anyway, it seems that TSgt Christina Gamez was awarded the Bronze Star following her deployment to Afghanistan for "meritorious achievement" as an accountant. That's all. Just accounting. Nothing about repelling an attack or tending to wounded. Just accounting while deployed.

I shit you not.

I would scan and post the article but it's obviously copyrighted.

For those of you out there who dont know what the Bronze Star is, it's the US military's fourth highest award for "bravery, heroism, and meritorious service"

I'm flabbergasted.

def90
March 27, 2012, 16:51
http://www.randolph.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123294964

The Bronze star can be given for many things.. I think you are looking at it in a combat/valor role only. The Medal of Honor and the Silver star are reserved for more of those things as well as the Bronze Star with Valor..

The Bronze Star can be given for acts of merit, or meritorious service.

From Wiki:
"The Bronze Star Medal (BSM, or BSV with valor device) is a United States Armed Forces individual military decoration that may be awarded for bravery, acts of merit, or meritorious service. As a medal it is awarded for merit, and with the "V" for valor device it is awarded for heroism. "

homelandprotector
March 27, 2012, 16:59
Cute Momma > > http://doubleduty.dodlive.mil/2010/08/18/10/100526-f-5040d-009/

And >> http://doubleduty.dodlive.mil/2010/08/18/10/

Jaxxas
March 27, 2012, 21:06
Hell I'd give her a Bronze Star for childbirth! Ever sit through that? Women are FUKIN amazing!

Retired Bum
March 27, 2012, 21:08
True story.....

Back in 1966 I was assigned to the Army's 8th RRU (Radio Research Unit) at Phu Bai, RVN. My boss was a CWO (Chief Warrant Officer) who was tasked with providing timely intelligence support for troops in the field who were chasing down a NVA Infantry Regiment operating in the area.

At the start of the operation the CWO flew down to DaNang so he could fly to Bangkok, Thailand for his R&R. So he was gone for about seven days. When he returned he was written up for the Bronze Star for providing "valuable" support in the operation. All the while when he was in Bangkok getting "rested".....

And he got the Bronze Star and a few weeks later got the Army Commendation Medal as well in a ceremony held in the unit commanders office. Par for the course back then in that outfit......

And so it goes.


The I Was Lucky To Get A Ride Back To The States Retired One

chet
March 27, 2012, 22:05
The US DOD awards system is RIPE for revamp and the line between the different classes is continuously blurred. Last time I counted, there are 7 or 8 classes of non combat medals "atta boys". Each class may have a medal for each branch or multiple medals for each branch. Some of these are also restricted by tradition or description to service members of a particular rank (the DSSM is known as the "general's good conduct medal" but is actually the medal immediately below the Silver Star in precedence.) That is too much non combat salad.

Below that are ribbons and there are a boatload tied to all kinds of little atta boys. Ribbons that represent "Airman of the Year", trophy winners, atta boy letter recipients, all kinds of stuff. There are ribbons to show you filled a particular billet, like security guard or recruiter.

If you are a sailor and actually go to sea, there's a ribbon for that. If you are a soldier and actually leave the continental US, there's a ribbon for that. Does your country happen to be at war when you enlist? Heck, there's a medal for that. Was the country you deployed to at war 60 years ago? There's a medal for that too.

Some branches are less egregious offenders than others. When I was in SOI as a Marine and saw the giant Bronze Star medal in the auditorium at San Onofre, I wondered why there was a "V" on it. I had never seen a Marine with a BS that was not awarded for combat service so it seemed a bit redundant. It wasn't until later that I learned this was normal in other branches, as long as you were the right rank.

The Air Force? Heck they are so bad, they will give you a ribbon for boot camp and another for just completing your first enlistment. Add a good conduct, a national d, and a GWOT, and there is no reason why a first enlistment airman who has never deployed should leave the service with anything less than 5 or 6 ribbons minimum. I work with an single enlistment Air Force guy that has 3 rows of ribbons and never went overseas and was out prior to 9/11.

I had an admiral board a ship I was embarked on. He had a pocket full of Navy Achievement Medals. As he walked from compartment to compartment, he would point at random sailors and turn the the Chief and say, "Is he a good sailor?" If the Chief nodded, he got a NAM right there and went back to work. The admiral never stopped and pointed at any Marines. I went to a pogue unit after my first deployment and they were pinning medals on each other once a quarter, though. Maybe that is where the admiral sent all those NAMS?

On the flip side, we had two Marines from my entire company receive NAM's with V's for their combat service. Their position was forward of ours and almost surrounded. They subsequently chased off a numerically superior force, possibly saving the lives of many of their fellow Marines. We would have had a battalion formation for them if it was logistically possible. It wasn't and the captain apologized for only being able to muster the company for the two of them. The NAMs might as well have been Silver Stars the way we felt but it was the same medal those swabbies got on an admiral's whim for "being a good sailor".


If our awards system is supposed to be about public and DOD recognition, it needs to go on a diet and become unitized across the services. Without streamlined and universal awards systems, we will continue to turn out E3's that look like Latin American and African "colonels" who were simply doing the job we paid them to do.

Story
March 27, 2012, 22:52
I'm flabbergasted.

Meh. Don't waste the calories on it, the entire system is jacked with the Legions of SPQA.

Criteria for a Bronze Star OIF 08-09 was 1) O4/E8 & above + 2) creative writing by underlings.

1911 Gunslinger
March 27, 2012, 23:20
I am looking at an article in the paper from Joint Base San Antonio, called Wingspread. Used to be the base paper from Randolph AFB but it's not called an AFB any more...it's called a Joint Base...it's what happened when Ft. Sam and Randolph mated, they became a Joint Base..but I digress.

Anyway, it seems that TSgt Christina Gamez was awarded the Bronze Star following her deployment to Afghanistan for "meritorious achievement" as an accountant. That's all. Just accounting. Nothing about repelling an attack or tending to wounded. Just accounting while deployed.

I shit you not.

I would scan and post the article but it's obviously copyrighted.

For those of you out there who dont know what the Bronze Star is, it's the US military's fourth highest award for "bravery, heroism, and meritorious service"

I'm flabbergasted.

Maybe "accounting" is the new code word for bj specialist.:cool:

martin35
March 27, 2012, 23:38
My son also a ex-Marine did a signature for my service and found two campaign service awards that had not existed when I left the Corps. I once got office hours for wearing my ribbons in the wrong order, which was a relief I thought they were pissed about the beer stains,,, the kicker was when the company clerk handed me a Good Conduct Medal the day I was separated and a DD214 that claimed I had spent all but 13 days of my enlistment over seas, when I asked did he look at my service record before he typed the 214 he answered do you want out today or not,,, so according to my permanent record I was a exemplary Marine who went from Mommy's House directly to Korea,,,, that being the case I'm still owed,,,, maybe I'll put in for a BS and get my Chaplains Pro Station chit punched.
Semper Fi FAL Forum.

Hootsmon
March 28, 2012, 05:05
Criteria for a Bronze Star OIF 08-09 was 1) O4/E8 & above + 2) creative writing by underlings.


I disagree. For O4/E8, no fancy writing is required for a Bronze. Just show up. Creative writing will be needed for a Silver Star.

Shame really, it cheapens the whole thing for people who actually DID something to earn a medal.

2barearms
March 28, 2012, 05:57
The US DOD awards system is RIPE for revamp and the line between the different classes is continuously blurred. Last time I counted, there are 7 or 8 classes of non combat medals "atta boys". Each class may have a medal for each branch or multiple medals for each branch. Some of these are also restricted by tradition or description to service members of a particular rank (the DSSM is known as the "general's good conduct medal" but is actually the medal immediately below the Silver Star in precedence.) That is too much non combat salad.

Below that are ribbons and there are a boatload tied to all kinds of little atta boys. Ribbons that represent "Airman of the Year", trophy winners, atta boy letter recipients, all kinds of stuff. There are ribbons to show you filled a particular billet, like security guard or recruiter.

If you are a sailor and actually go to sea, there's a ribbon for that. If you are a soldier and actually leave the continental US, there's a ribbon for that. Does your country happen to be at war when you enlist? Heck, there's a medal for that. Was the country you deployed to at war 60 years ago? There's a medal for that too.

Some branches are less egregious offenders than others. When I was in SOI as a Marine and saw the giant Bronze Star medal in the auditorium at San Onofre, I wondered why there was a "V" on it. I had never seen a Marine with a BS that was not awarded for combat service so it seemed a bit redundant. It wasn't until later that I learned this was normal in other branches, as long as you were the right rank.

The Air Force? Heck they are so bad, they will give you a ribbon for boot camp and another for just completing your first enlistment. Add a good conduct, a national d, and a GWOT, and there is no reason why a first enlistment airman who has never deployed should leave the service with anything less than 5 or 6 ribbons minimum. I work with an single enlistment Air Force guy that has 3 rows of ribbons and never went overseas and was out prior to 9/11.

I had an admiral board a ship I was embarked on. He had a pocket full of Navy Achievement Medals. As he walked from compartment to compartment, he would point at random sailors and turn the the Chief and say, "Is he a good sailor?" If the Chief nodded, he got a NAM right there and went back to work. The admiral never stopped and pointed at any Marines. I went to a pogue unit after my first deployment and they were pinning medals on each other once a quarter, though. Maybe that is where the admiral sent all those NAMS?

On the flip side, we had two Marines from my entire company receive NAM's with V's for their combat service. Their position was forward of ours and almost surrounded. They subsequently chased off a numerically superior force, possibly saving the lives of many of their fellow Marines. We would have had a battalion formation for them if it was logistically possible. It wasn't and the captain apologized for only being able to muster the company for the two of them. The NAMs might as well have been Silver Stars the way we felt but it was the same medal those swabbies got on an admiral's whim for "being a good sailor".


If our awards system is supposed to be about public and DOD recognition, it needs to go on a diet and become unitized across the services. Without streamlined and universal awards systems, we will continue to turn out E3's that look like Latin American and African "colonels" who were simply doing the job we paid them to do.


In the pics on the flicker bar there is a guy on the left, he is either a giant
or they are all incredibly short. He's over a foot taller than the biggest
one there.

http://doubleduty.dodlive.mil/2010/08/18/10/

dwarmbrodt
March 28, 2012, 07:28
Hell I'd give her a Bronze Star for childbirth! Ever sit through that? Women are FUKIN amazing!

Germans did it during WWII giving the Mothers Cross to women that had a certain number of children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Honor_of_the_German_Mother

chet
March 28, 2012, 08:36
What a travesty that we have sold such a bill of goods to women: "We expect you told hold a marriage to another servicemember together despite alternating and simultaneous deployments. We think it is possible to raise children while you are doing this so we will subsidize that as well. We expect you to be able to win a war although, should we go full tilt, it is virtually guaranteed both parents will be gone for the duration leaving you to find another home for your children while thousands of able bodied men stay home. BTW, here's a Bronze Star.":rolleyes:

RG Coburn
March 28, 2012, 08:46
My brother-in-law got a Bronze Star in Iraq. He was in charge of a transport group,WO2 or 3. Way I understand it,he got it for keeping shot-to-hell trucks rolling.That was when the convoys were taking hits multiple times,daily. Some of the pics he showed me were impressive. One of his drivers had a kid pop out and shoot an RPG at the front of his truck,but the kid was too close,so the rocket didn't self-arm. It bounced around under the hood and poked itself right thru the floorboard under the pedals. Imagine driving thru an ambush looking at that under your brake pedal.

gunplumber
March 28, 2012, 10:01
Army Medals are handed out like a Pez dispenser.

ACM for "best pork chops the General ever tasted". ACM for standing 24 on 24 off radio watch for 2 weeks. Meanwhile, the team in the field they were supporting (mine) went unnoticed. Which I guess is good. We were supposed to be "covert".

I got a counseling statement for not wearing my medals. I could find no regulation requiring me to, so I chose not to. Only wore my EIB, jump wings, and Ranger Tab - things I considered to have "earned".

AAMs for things I never did? (Outstanding Dragon Gunner? I was a 60 gunner) ASM was redundant to me standing there. PLDC redundant to sergeants stripes. All bullshit. I've seen soldiers who fought in 3 wars in Israel with 3 ribbons. That's all. And I've seen pregnant E2 truck drivers who have never been off post with 3 rows.

martin35
March 28, 2012, 10:46
My all time favorite was the 3 kiss the boo boo and make it go away Purple Hearts that John Kerry rode out early on from VN so he could throw them over the WH fence at Nixon who started the VN war,,, or something Republican. (I know Who First sent Troops to VN, and why)
The stories of individuals who have gamed the military are legion and many,,, the first recorded was the lone Spartan who claimed he was straight and avoided the last Battle of Thermopylae,,,, will history repeat?.

( I always meant to ask do our posts need to be factual? )

chet
March 28, 2012, 11:48
The recommended salad diet:

4 grades of combat "atta boys":CMH, service cross,SS,BS

2 grades of non comba atta boys:Legion of Merit, MSM

1 non combat lifesaving medal: unitized across the services, a life is a life.

3 grades of unit awards. Unitized across the services. Highest two reserved for combat performance only.

Combat? Use a service specific badge. No ribbons. No medals. Combat is a test. Successful completion of a test is a qualification. Qualifications are represented with badges.

Purple heart? End it. The objective is not to get hit.

POW Medal? End it. The objective is to not get captured.

Sea and Overseas service ribbons? End it. That is what you signed up for.

MOS specific ribbons like security guard and recruiter? End it. What's next? Cook ribbons?

Training ribbons? End it. That is what your service branch emblem is for - graduating boot camp. You earned the title Soldier, Airman, Sailor, or Marine. That's good enough.

Global War on Terror and the Expeditionary version? End it. Easily duplicated by any of the campaign medals out there and/or National D.

National Defense - Leave it but award it upon successful and honorable completion of an assigned duty station during a time of war. (Handing it to boots along with a GWOT and a training ribbon, cheapens the whole thing in a really embarassing way.) Possibly use the Good Conduct as a peacetime version of the same award - honorable completion of a term of service in peacetime. Use stars for subsequent awards of a given term. The guy who re-enlisted and re-deployed in a time of war deserves the recognition.

Artic/Antartic Service? End it. Send a postcard instead.

Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal? End it. This is a bull hockey "joint" catch all for operations that do not have a campaign medal, thereby robbing the servicemember of the actual recognition. Plus, it also robs Marines of the Marine Expeditionary Medal which requires actual combat service ashore. So, a cook on an amphib sitting comfortably off the coast wears the same medals as a grunt with his junk in the dirt getting shot at.

Expeditionary Medals: Tempted to say end it here also. Just make a campaign medal for the event and be done with it. However, many small combat operations do occur, like NEO's and TRAP's. Keep these service specific and add a battle clasp for the location or the year, use a star for ribbon wear. But keep use them for combat only.

Campaign Medals: Go back to the practice of issuing battle clasps and stars for ribbons. Ride OIF out in Kuwait? No battle clasp.

Governor's awards, letter of appreciation, all kinds of other trophies and atta boys? Non wearable awards like plaques, certificates, and challenge coins.

Foreign Medals? UN Medals? NATO Medals? END IT>Who wants to wear a recognition of a lesser country or organization and a potential future enemy. We should have air mailed all those Liberation of Kuwait (Saudi) back to Riyadh after 9/11.

chet
March 28, 2012, 12:46
Humanitarian Service- End it. Ford's contribution. This isn't the Red Cross. (Actually save a life? See above Lifesaving Medal).

Korean Service Medal - End it. Bush II's baby. We provide security for dozens of countries in the empire these days. Stupid to single out Korea.

Armed Forces Service Medal - Clinton's consolation prize for folks who don't rate a campaign medal. End it.

Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal - Bush I's "I'm a good person" medal. Make the C.O. aware that you scrub tiles at a gay bath house in your off time? Get a medal. No thanks. End it.

Shooting ribbons - It's a qualification. It rates a badge. The Navy and Coast Guard are all about qual badges except here. Makes no sense. End it.

Shooting badges - Unitize that stuff across the services. Why should an Army dog get an expert badge when he has never even shot at 500 yards or a Navy guy get expert pistol for shooting a .22 indoors? Standardize qualifications. Move on.

National Guard stuff - As long it is for actual state service, then there should be no duplicate awards for federal service. That would wipe out about 5/8's of them. Requiring they use hashmarks for service length would wipe out another quarter. The remainder would suffice. No similarity to federal recognitions allowed though (WOW, is that the Navy Cross? No, it's my Kansas Excellence Medal. Oh.)

shlomo
March 28, 2012, 18:00
Not gettin' a cherry. From WWI:

"Oh, Mademoiselle from Armentieres, parlez-vous?

Oh, Mademoiselle from Armentieres, parlez-vous?

She got the Palm and the Croix de Guerre, for washing soldiers' underwear.

Hinkey-dinkey, parlez-vous?"

JeffJ
March 28, 2012, 20:22
Not gettin' a cherry. From WWI:

"Oh, Mademoiselle from Armentieres, parlez-vous?

Oh, Mademoiselle from Armentieres, parlez-vous?

She got the Palm and the Croix de Guerre, for washing soldiers' underwear.

Hinkey-dinkey, parlez-vous?"

If it was after combat she may have earned it!:biggrin:

SWOHFAL
March 28, 2012, 21:25
Maybe "accounting" is the new code word for bj specialist.:cool:

I was thinking that too. Or a "don't tell my wife" specialist.

Story
March 28, 2012, 21:38
I disagree. For O4/E8, no fancy writing is required for a Bronze. Just show up. Creative writing will be needed for a Silver Star..

That's only if your unit is organic. Attached to a different unit (particularly branch), then you need creative writing to pry the shiny bits of medal out of the one star's minions' grubby mits (or send one of your field grades over to felate their field grades).

chet
March 28, 2012, 22:44
That's only if your unit is organic. Attached to a different unit (particularly branch), then you need creative writing to pry the shiny bits of medal out of the one star's minions' grubby mits (or send one of your field grades over to felate their field grades).

Another travesty that needs overhauling. Because the awards system is so large and so disjointed, personal decorations should not only be reduced but be made so hard to actually award that their sheer rarity restores some semblance of sanity to the system. Reducing personal awards to a 4 step combat, 2 step non combat would remove much of the subjective poo poo that brigadiers wield.

It would be nice if any basically trained service member could look at another service member from another branch and 1. recognize his awards 2. have the knowledge they were awarded faithfully according to the same guidelines he is under. I hate to say it but Army bronze stars don't carry much weight with me till I get to know the fella and hear the story. There are just too many admin mommies, like the one above, out there sporting salad that some grunt who schlepped crap and had exemplary and often heroic combat performance over the span of his deployment would never hope to get because the action wasn't witnessed by the right people or his friends just hugged him and said thanks and every body went back to work.

I know for a fact there are guys that have Army Bronze Star citations that read like Marine Letters of Appreciation (which is basically a memo from a CO that says "atta boy, junior, you did good." The Corps doesn't even give you a frame for it and there is never a formation to award it.) Crap like that inspires resentment.

Story
March 29, 2012, 18:50
Crap like that inspires resentment.

Ding. You are correct - see the S-1, collect 10 retirement points.

No "V" device? don't mean shit.

chet
March 30, 2012, 09:40
I've re-considered. Let's ditch the BS too. It's a johnny-come-lately award anyway that is so far from it's original purpose, there is probably no getting it back.

Just in case folks who never served don't get all the hub bub, take this as an example: a man who joins the Army today, is basically trained, serves honorably, and goes to Iraq or AFG and gets in one firefight will wear 5 medals, two ribbons, and a badge:

Appropriate combat badge, Good Conduct Medal, National Defense Medal, OEF/OIF Campaign Medal with star, Global War on Terror - Expeditionary Medal, Global War on Terror Medal, Overseas Service Ribbon, Army Training Ribbon. (That's bare bones minimum.If he is a Guardsman or Reservist, his minimum is higher. A similiar Marine would net the same amount of salad since he would have a combat action ribbon but no boot camp ribbon.)

Contrast that with a soldier 100 years ago, that was basically trained, served honorably, fought in three major offensives where they stacked the bodies so high they couldn't ship 'em home, and was decorated for valor twice by his command when they actually had the ability to observe and record his actions, and then stayed there until the job was done. He wears just one medal:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/CitStarEx.jpg

A WWI Victory Medal with 3 battle clasps and two Citation Stars (the forerunner of the Silver Star Medal).

It was mailed to his home of record after the war in a plain cardboard box.

That's how far we have come in 100 years.:rolleyes:

tigerfans2
March 30, 2012, 20:56
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badges_of_the_United_States_Air_Force

back in the day you could get a badge for being a pilot or nav then the misslie weenies cried and got a missle badge and now every swinging d*ck and split tail in the AF gets a badge for some damn thing or the other.

and WE used to laugh at the frogs

Dirt1042
March 31, 2012, 03:00
It's the Chair Force. I'm not surprised.

A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.
Napoleon Bonaparte

raexcct2
March 31, 2012, 14:11
That link in the Randolph AFB web page got so many negative comments that they pulled the story.

The Air Force is also the only branch that does NOT authorize Meritorious Service Medal for actions in a hostile fire zone which is the justification for the Air Force gives in awarding Bronze Stars.

The Air Force is also the only branch that authorizes the Bronze Stars as end of tour medals so those admin POG's like her can get a Bronze Star after doing a 365 day tour in Afghanistan or like when I was working as a contractor in Kuwait and the the commanding officer of the 5th Expeditionary Air Mobility Squadron did a 6 month tour and got a Bronze Star.

That was a funny situation, civilian contractors running the airfield, doing the command and control, rigging and loading equipment and cargo for transport to the military effort in Iraq and Afghanistan, yet the military (Air Force) awarded themselves a Meritorious Unit Citation for our work. The only military folks at Kuwait City International were the Commander, and the Security Forces guarding the flightline plus the Force Protection folks escorting the TCN's (Third Country Nationals).

The Bronze Star should ONLY be awarded for actual combat and Valor. It was originally intended to be the infantryman's version of the Air Medal and it needs to return to that not an award for being a SNCO/Commander or end of tour award.

AndyC
March 31, 2012, 16:27
Hear, hear :beer:

Story
March 31, 2012, 21:17
The Bronze Star should ONLY be awarded for actual combat and Valor. It was originally intended to be the infantryman's version of the Air Medal and it needs to return to that not an award for being a SNCO/Commander or end of tour award.

+1

kopcicle
April 01, 2012, 01:19
I wear a lifesaving medal , ND , pistol , rifle and nothing more . I'm entitled to claim and wear more but these I earned . Cost me a bit to be out of uniform more than once but it was worth it when I was finally asked why. If I have to tell you ...

~kop

raexcct2
April 01, 2012, 01:44
I wear a lifesaving medal , ND , pistol , rifle and nothing more . I'm entitled to claim and wear more but these I earned . Cost me a bit to be out of uniform more than once but it was worth it when I was finally asked why. If I have to tell you ...

~kop

kop,

Good on you. The only good thing that Gen. McPeak did for the Air Force uniform was to give us the option of wearing all, some or none of our ribbons. Unfortunately, that option was revoked after he retired so we were stuck with having to wear all the fruit salad and look like some third world dictator.

jimmbob
April 01, 2012, 04:55
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TFwprS_L6tg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:beer:

raexcct2
April 05, 2012, 19:36
http://www.dyess.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123296425

It seems like the Air Force Comptroller Squadrons have decided to give all their personnel Bronze Stars for Afghanistan or maybe it's just the females who are getting them.

ratas calientes
April 07, 2012, 11:34
Meh. Don't waste the calories on it, the entire system is jacked with the Legions of SPQA.
. . .
SPQA = ? :confused:

raexcct2
April 07, 2012, 15:57
The US Air Force awards system is totally jacked.

I just found out about an Air Force Combat Controller (Combat Control Team-CCT, my old career field) that was involved in a two day running firefight when attached to a Army Special Forces A-Team. He worked all the close air support missions and the hot medevac extraction for his team in addition to engaging the enemy.

His citation specifically mentions being actually engaged in combat and the number of enemy he killed either with small arms or by the airstrikes he called in.

He was put in for the Bronze Star with Valor and after waiting 4 years, it came back downgraded to a Bronze Star for Meritorious Service, the same award this female finance specialist received.

The Air Force is F%$ked and I am retired Air Force.

chet
April 11, 2012, 08:33
Trying to grab a pic of the cover of the new AF Times. Apparently, the BS blowback is the lead story. Good. I hate it for those airmen though. They were just doing their job and (hopefully) never asked for the BS in the first place.