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Sampson1986
February 21, 2012, 20:14
I'm thinking about getting into the full auto scene this year and need some help deciding on a good entry level MG. I'm willing to spend up to $8k. What are my options?

olgunner
February 21, 2012, 21:03
That price range limits you somewhat, but there are some decent choices.

At the upper end of that range, a lot of folks seem to like standard Uzis. (Here's one with suppressor: http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi?read=146224)

Personally, I think the M2 Carbine is a great bargain and would leave you plenty of cash for ammo. (But then, I love the M1 Carbine, too, so the M2 is a natural extension.)

Just for bullet-spraying, you could consider a Sten. Maybe a Sterling Mk 4? You could pick any variation of MAC, too, but I'm not really a fan.

I also like the Reising M50. They weren't a great military weapon, but if you're not planning on dragging it through jungles, it's a pretty cool .45 (and a lot cheaper than the Thompson).

Whatever you select, congrats in advance, and have fun with it!
But definitely be prepared for the expenses. First, they burn ammo FAST. And second, very few people stop after one!

Keep us posted on what you pursue!

gunner30
February 21, 2012, 21:43
Consider the Uzi. They're reasonably available, priced ok and there are lots of parts out there for them. Best of all,if you the shoot the barrel out at some point,it just screws out for easy replacement.

Growler Gator
February 21, 2012, 22:43
FN FNC Para.

No question.

W.E.G.
February 21, 2012, 22:49
AC-556

The only excuse for owning a Mini-14.

FUUN063
February 22, 2012, 02:23
Sten, Sterling, Madsen, Mac, Reising, M2 Carbine, Maybe Swedish K, Port Said, S&W 76, Hmmm.....not many left in that price range.

Leland
:fal:

olgier
February 22, 2012, 07:17
The Mac with a Lage upper and a good stock is a fun subgun.

Story
February 22, 2012, 09:54
AC-556

The only excuse for owning a Mini-14.

Then you have to find three friends with them, and a black van. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MVonyVSQoM)

greenpeas
February 22, 2012, 10:52
The Mac with a Lage upper and a good stock is a fun subgun.

+1

The M11/9 is a versatile little gun. There's lots of good aftermarket stuff available especially from Richard Lage. I can shoot 9mm, .22lr & 7.62x25 out of my m11.

1gewehr
February 22, 2012, 11:46
With a max of $8K, I'd also suggest the M11/9.

While there are certainly better guns available at that price, there are none that are as versatile. An M11/9 with a Lage upper and decent stock will only use half your funds. You can get a .22 kit, drum conversion, and many other accessories to make it whatever you want. They have also been converted to 7.62x25, 9mm Makarov, .380, and couple of other calibers.

My second choice would be the Uzi as it also has a couple of caliber choices and is very reliable and easy to shoot well in stock form.

Probably the best SMG you could afford would be a Sterling. That and the Swedish K are probably the two best SMGs ever built. but what you see is what you get. There are no caliber conversions or other things to buy aside from ammo and magazines.

fnogger
February 22, 2012, 13:21
For 8k you should be able to get a FN-FNC ($3k or so) and the registered auto sear/etc for it (another $3k).

AliYahu
February 22, 2012, 13:31
You can buy a good Sten and a LOT of ammo for $8,000!

Eli

mg34dan
February 22, 2012, 18:40
Consider the Uzi. They're reasonably available, priced ok and there are lots of parts out there for them. Best of all,if you the shoot the barrel out at some point,it just screws out for easy replacement.

Yep, what he said. Plus you can get conversion kits to shoot .22lr, .45 ACP, and .40 S&W.

partisan50
February 22, 2012, 18:47
FNC
Uzi
M2 Carbine
Reising
MAC...one or two!

Sampson1986
February 22, 2012, 18:58
Thanks for the feedback, guys.

I'm leaning toward the M2 Carbine.

VALMET
February 22, 2012, 20:28
AC-556

The only excuse for owning a Mini-14.


AGREED!!!

catmguy445
February 22, 2012, 22:57
Then you have to find three friends with them, and a black van.

That made me laugh out loud.:rofl:

pmf
February 24, 2012, 16:27
With a max of $8K, I'd also suggest the M11/9.

While there are certainly better guns available at that price, there are none that are as versatile. An M11/9 with a Lage upper and decent stock will only use half your funds. You can get a .22 kit, drum conversion, and many other accessories to make it whatever you want. They have also been converted to 7.62x25, 9mm Makarov, .380, and couple of other calibers.

My second choice would be the Uzi as it also has a couple of caliber choices and is very reliable and easy to shoot well in stock form.


This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say. The uzi is the better gun of the two, the M11/9 is the more versatile of the two. Before the Lage upper, it would have been hands down the uzi, but that thing really turned the M11/9 into a very nice gun. Lage now has a 22 kit that supposedly works pretty well. Both guns have easily avaliable parts and mags.

You might want to consider one that's sten converted. I can shoot 7.62x25 out of mine using modified sten mags and a different barrel.

Bawana jim
February 25, 2012, 13:13
You have recieved some good suggestions. I would add only this, what are your plans for the gun? Look where you want to go and buy what will get you there. If it's just for fun then most any subgun will bring a smile. If you are going to compete in the matches then the question is "do you want to win"?

There is alot of fun to be had with subguns.

gunsmoke
February 25, 2012, 17:28
Personally I'd either go for a full size UZI for all the reasons stated, versatility with caliber changes .22 RF is always going to be cheaper to feed than a 9 and the 9 is always going to be cheaper than .45 but there are times when you just got to have the .45. Cans in each caliber ~ versitile.

An M1 Carbine with a registered M2 kit could be fun and versitile switching the kit to enforcers paras etc. Huge supply of relatively inexpensive spare/repair parts relatively cheap to shoot & reload for plated bullets, hornady half jackets, swage your own, cheap ammo to gather brass for reloading S & B, Privi, Aguila.

You KNOW the more you get to shoot the more fun you're going to have, enjoy!

partisan50
February 26, 2012, 10:25
Thanks for the feedback, guys.

I'm leaning toward the M2 Carbine.


That was my first MG, real fun to shoot!

pmf
February 27, 2012, 11:16
AC-556

The only excuse for owning a Mini-14.

Nah, even a happy switch can't save that gun.

partisan50
February 27, 2012, 11:24
Nah, even a happy switch can't save that gun.

Correct! Buy a FNC instead.

FUUN063
February 27, 2012, 20:58
Forgot, maybe a 10-22 converted. They are cheap and run great with plenty of aftermarket stuff for them.

Leland
:fal:

Surly
March 03, 2012, 21:36
I have an Uzi and a MK760. I prefer the Uzi because the .22 conversion I have with it allows me to shoot it three times as much as I would with just 9mm. It is a fun plinker in either caliber.

goldshlagerxx
March 07, 2012, 14:46
Have you considered a registered lightning link for the AR15 platform? They can be had for around 7k. Supposed to be pretty durable with the KNS protector.

dirtyrice
March 08, 2012, 07:36
A lighting link is a lot of bang for your buck. You can build ar's in many calibers, lengths and configurations and just swap it between your firearms at the range. Tons of parts out there for them and they're are reasonably cheap compared to most mgs which may have limited amounts of semi versions out there to demand a good sized parts market.

An uzi would be my suggestion for an entry level mg under $8k. With a registered receiver you can run .22, 9mm, and even 45 if you can find the parts. Buffers will make a full sized run a bit faster add +p ammo to the mix and it is even better. Plenty of parts kits out there and some semi-auto copies so if you need a part you should be able to find it.

Mac-11s with the lage uppers can be good entry level subguns. But with $8k i'd go with an uzi.

Me personally i'd probably go for an fnc. They fluctuate between $7k-$8k I've shot a registered one a few times and I like em. I know some people that say they would prefer fncs were registered by the receiver vs the sear because if the sear breaks wtf do you do? But people that take care of their lightning links don't seem to have a problem. Fal would be 2nd choice but it is a few more grand usually.

Warbirds Custom Guns
March 09, 2012, 12:34
I'm thinking about getting into the full auto scene this year and need some help deciding on a good entry level MG. I'm willing to spend up to $8k. What are my options?

You really should get this one.
It's a steal IMO & in your price range.
Use the "Buy it now".
AC 566 LNIB (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=276152850)




AC-556

The only excuse for owning a Mini-14.
I have to agree.
I bought a few AC 556's in 1995 for $1200. & turned them for $3000.
Wish I kept one.
See above link.



.

kev
March 09, 2012, 17:27
You really should get this one.
It's a steal IMO & in your price range.
Use the "Buy it now".
AC 566 LNIB (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=276152850)

I don't know,.................it's nice with the box and all, but $8500 for an AC556? Man that seems steep for what it is. And it's on a form4 now, so it's a two tax gun. With shipping, even if you've got a receiving dealer who will catch it for you for free,..............you'll have $9000 in it by the time it filters down to you. I couldn't do it. No way.

Warbirds Custom Guns
March 09, 2012, 19:42
I don't know,.................it's nice with the box and all, but $8500 for an AC556? Man that seems steep for what it is.
He can always watch the auction & see what happens.
The standard full length model sells for $6800.-$7500. depending on condition, blued or stainless & no original box or anything else included.
Go to subguns.com & see what they sell for there. The prices above are the norm.


And it's on a form4 now, so it's a two tax gun. With shipping, even if you've got a receiving dealer who will catch it for you for free,..............you'll have $9000 in it by the time it filters down to you. I couldn't do it. No way.
Per the auction.
"It will transfer to your class 3 dealer tax paid with a form 4 direct from our customer."
He'll only pay 1 transfer & the short folders are the rarest of the AC 556.




.

kev
March 09, 2012, 21:03
Per the auction.
"It will transfer to your class 3 dealer tax paid with a form 4 direct from our customer."
He'll only pay 1 transfer & the short folders are the rarest of the AC 556.




.

No, see, his 'customer' isn't an SOT, so it will transfer to a class 3 dealer tax paid with a form 4. Another tax paid form4 will be required to get it to the buyer(unless everybody resides in the same state where it could go directly from the non-SOT'customer' to the buyer).

I could be mis-reading it(because it's poorly written), but it doesn't sound like he's offering to cover the first taxed transfer.

Skilter
March 09, 2012, 23:24
MINI Uzi with a can...

Powder Springs Mac 10/45 with Lage upper and can. (Personally, I don't like the Lage M11/9 upper. It takes a light little package and makes it too heavy.)

Off brand M-16 lower receiver. You MIGHT be able to find one at that price and then build the upper as you see fit.

Sampson1986
March 11, 2012, 21:04
I've got a line on a couple of M2 Carbines. The owner died and his heirs are not eligible to have NFA toys. Gonna check 'em out and see what they look like. Might pick one of 'em up if the price is right.

I'll keep y'all posted.

Deucer01
March 14, 2012, 06:53
In the OP's price range, I would recommend a RLL hands down. How else can you get into an M16 world around $7000? Only drawback is there is no reliable .22 kit for them yet but all other M16/AR14 uppers and calibers will run great. They are hard to find but come up for sale occassionaly. I just sold mine in January to help fund a factory Colt M16. Otherwise, I was very happy with it and would have kept it.

Sampson1986
May 28, 2012, 19:06
Nothing yet on the M2 Carbines.

I did get to shoot a Madsen, MAC, Thompson, AK47, Uzi, and a Kriss (all full auto) over this past weekend. I am really impressed with the Uzi. I shot very well with it and enjoyed the hell out of it. Think it might be the one I'm gonna go with.

K. Funk
May 29, 2012, 22:20
I got my 3 position ( Semi, 3 rd, FA) AC 556 for $5700. I think they are a great gun for the money.

krf

Bigger_Is_Better
May 30, 2012, 07:10
I had this dilema earlier this year. I waited long enough before I made the decision to be able to buy a Colt 614 (M16). I was originally saving for a Mac with a Lage, but my sales went good enough I popped for the M16. I knew I could do whatever I wanted with it considering all the available configurations.

LAFAL
May 31, 2012, 07:42
Hopefully our M-2 form 4 is going to go through around June. My wife's going to get a great big surprise when I install the unit on her M-1 and push the happy switch forward. I will be videoing her smile. :D
She loves the Thompson but she has to drop it down to what she calls her "low carry position" after firing a burst cause she says "it's too heavy". I told her to start doing pushups.
Then the fight started..........

fubar
May 31, 2012, 11:53
FN FNC Para.

No question.

THIS. I'm going to probably pick one up in the next 6 months or so.

Shoulda never sold my Semi FNC Para 10 years ago...

Sampson1986
November 12, 2012, 14:00
UPDATE: I took the plunge a few days ago. In the end I decided on a Sten Mk. II SMG.

Paying for the damn thing was the easy part.

Texgunner
November 12, 2012, 14:53
I really like my Long Branch MkII Sten. A 1944 model, it was given to me by a friend. I paid for the transfer tax. I thought it was a good deal.:)

AliYahu
November 12, 2012, 15:45
Ah, Stens - my father built hundreds of them, "X-Ploraco" was the manufacturer.

Eli

olgunner
November 12, 2012, 20:42
Congrats, sampson! The Sten will no doubt be a blast.
Now comes the big wait. Hard as it can be, try to put it out of your mind. Like waiting for Christmas, delivery day will get here eventually!

dirtyrice
November 13, 2012, 03:48
FN FNC Para.

No question.

+100 only drawback is spare parts but it is what I would get and Hope to get some day. 5.56, takes ar mags, more hefty than an ar, made by FN :)

Artful
November 14, 2012, 22:34
UPDATE: I took the plunge a few days ago. In the end I decided on a Sten Mk. II SMG.

Paying for the damn thing was the easy part.

You must have done the Pprwk as individual - you might consider Trust or LLC for next purchase.
(yes, once you have one there will be a next purchase :biggrin:)

Have you considered suppression?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKkKlWWmEbM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSwVGr1w-U0

I went the UZI route for my first - Suppressor sold me - we fired it out into a bank from inside the shop - had to have it.

for giggles and grins - presented for entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aax35iZsBU

stimpsonjcat
November 15, 2012, 11:07
various MGs in slow mo.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nTUp9S3s-3o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

EinheitElf
November 15, 2012, 15:51
i SAY MP40 OR MG42......BUT THATS HOW I LIKE TO ROLL! CAN I AFFORD EITHER,NOT RIGHT NOW,DO I WANT THEM, HELL YEA!! THE MP40 HAS TO BE ONE OF THE MOST CONTROLLABLE ONES I EVER SHOT, JUST ROCKS BACK AND FORTH IN THE ARMS... NOT LIKE THE RABID 9MM COLTS OR THERS SPITTING 900 RPM.... 500-550 IS I THINK WHAT THE MP40 DOES..

CONGRATS ON YOUR BUY!!!:beer::beer:

PS-AT WORK, PROGRAM NEEDS CAPS LOCK SO MY FINGER IS LAZY TO TURN IT OFF:]:beer:

greenwheless
November 15, 2012, 15:53
I think that you made a good decision with your sub gun...you can take them to a lot of public ranges and you can suppress them which is even more fun :-)

Sampson1986
January 03, 2013, 00:27
Update: The first transfer (SOT to SOT) is expected to occur at the end of January. My dealer is on vacation for three weeks, otherwise the STEN could come in at any time from now until the end of January.

My NFA trust has been set up by a lawyer in the Kalispell area. All that needs to be done is to have all the trustees (my parents and myself) sign.

I ordered some STEN mags and am in the process of getting them cleaned up. I've also been stocking up on 9mm ammo.

Damn, I'm excited.

Texgunner
January 03, 2013, 08:36
I ordered some STEN mags and am in the process of getting them cleaned up. I've also been stocking up on 9mm ammo.

Damn, I'm excited.

Congrats! You're going to have a lot of fun. Yes, stock up on the 9mm, you'll unload those mags a lot faster than you loaded them.:rofl: Oh, and be sure you've got a good loading tool, btw. I've never seen any magazine that is harder to load. Without a tool, it's just about impossible to load them.
Gary

Artful
January 03, 2013, 21:04
My friend with a STEN liked the Austen mag loader
http://images.cloud.worthpoint.com/wpimages/images/images1/1/1211/21/1_67e702fed023cfe55dd7b7875e8aec3a.jpg
here's some ideas for others
http://www.robertrtg.com/sten.html
http://www.robertrtg.com/images/stenmagloaderb.jpg

LULA modified for Sten
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU7dIKvu0go

Home made
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS5xnTqnlfM

WW2
http://www.ima-usa.com/british-sten-lanchester-magazine-loader-box-type-new-made.html
and this is the nice brass one for under $40.00


If you ever get a double stack, double feed gun look into the
EasyLoader
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y534P4L23sk
I only have the older metal ones - latest gunshows had plastic ones - I'd keep my eye out for metal
I love it for AR, UZI, M2 Carbine, M14 mags

Sampson1986
February 14, 2013, 22:58
02/14/13 Update: The Sten arrived at my dealer's shop last week. I completed my portion of the Form 4 and Certification of Compliance and mailed them, along with a copy of my trust and a couple Schedule A's (one showing the Sten and signed, one blank but signed), to my dealer. My dealer (Mr.H) is meeting with an area BATFE agent who is going to discuss his understanding of the trust transfer route (Mr. H has no trust transfer experience) so that we will be good with the paperwork from the get go (hopefully). Next Saturday, my old man and I will be taking the 80 mile trip to shoot the Sten, with the added bonus of seeing (and maybe shooting) some of my dealer's extensive WWII full auto collection (Thompson, M2 Carbine, BAR, 50 BMG, etc.) - I'm looking forward to it.

I've been trying to keep busy with other gun projects so I don't think about the Sten too much. Hopefully, I can make my FAL build last for the rest of 2013.

m60shooter
February 15, 2013, 09:43
02/14/13 Update: The Sten arrived at my dealer's shop last week. I completed my portion of the Form 4 and Certification of Compliance and mailed them, along with a copy of my trust and a couple Schedule A's (one showing the Sten and signed, one blank but signed), to my dealer. My dealer (Mr.H) is meeting with an area BATFE agent who is going to discuss his understanding of the trust transfer route (Mr. H has no trust transfer experience) so that we will be good with the paperwork from the get go (hopefully). Next Saturday, my old man and I will be taking the 80 mile trip to shoot the Sten, with the added bonus of seeing (and maybe shooting) some of my dealer's extensive WWII full auto collection (Thompson, M2 Carbine, BAR, 50 BMG, etc.) - I'm looking forward to it.

I've been trying to keep busy with other gun projects so I don't think about the Sten too much. Hopefully, I can make my FAL build last for the rest of 2013.

i'll never forget the first time i shot a sten, i pulled the trigger & it fired once then i thaught it jammed. then it fired again then again then again. it had an extremely slow rate of fire. that's a good thing. it took a while to get used to after playing with m-11"s. always recamend a suppressor for sub guns. much more enjoyable.. good luck

FUUN063
February 26, 2013, 11:02
You could have another bolt taken to a machine shop and turned down in the center to lighten it up. This will increase the rate of fire, if so desired. I like STENs.

Leland
:fal:

SteveFAL
February 26, 2013, 21:45
A progressive reloading press.
It will not necessarily cause you to spend less on ammo, but it will allow you to shoot more for the same money.... :-)
Have fun!

Sampson1986
February 27, 2013, 13:48
Thanks, guys.

The Mk. II looks really, really good. I would have never thought Jonathan Ciener could crank out something so nice.

Anyway, the trip to my C3 dealer was pretty good. He's a WWII fan and his full auto collection is something else. When he opened up his very last safe with the big boys (Browning M2, MG34, 1919, Jap. T99, Lewis, BAR, Vickers, and a couple others), I nearly pissed myself. Very cool.

Paperwork has been sent to Atlanta. Now for the big wait.

Sampson1986
August 29, 2013, 18:34
Getting close now.

NFA Branch has sent my Forms back twice now - to correct a couple of small mistakes. Supposedly, that means my Forms are on the top of the pile.

Hoping to have the Mark II in my gun safe by September 15th. It has been an interesting ride. Funds willing, I hope to do it again in the future.

:biggrin:

Sampson1986
January 11, 2014, 20:21
The wait is finally over. :uhoh:

Picked up my approved Form 4 and MK. II today. :biggrin:

She runs like a raped ape.

riffraff2
January 12, 2014, 02:51
Welcome to the world of the NFA. I can't afford the NFA item(s) that I would really like to own unless I hit the lottery and am in the process of selling the NFA items I do own.

Don't forget, if you move, you have something like 30 days to notify the BATFE that you have done so and I recommend you send your notification Certified and return receipt requested. It is close to the same requirements of your drivers license, vehicle registrations, insurance addy's, except the penaltys are a little more severe since this is a federal thing and has multitudes more layers of crap than most any state agency you might have dealt with before.

Have fun.

Artful
January 12, 2014, 19:27
The wait is finally over. :uhoh:

Picked up my approved Form 4 and MK. II today. :biggrin:

She runs like a raped ape.

:bow: Congratulations - Hope you never have any problems
and enjoy the heck out of it.

So what's next on the list? :devil:

Sampson1986
January 13, 2014, 07:12
So what's next on the list? :devil:

My dealer has a NIB Mini-Uzi in closed bolt configuration. Gonna see what what he wants for it. :devil:

Skilter
January 13, 2014, 14:00
Loved my Mini-Uzi... Not sure on the closed bolt conversion though. If it is in list to get, I would look for a NIB Vector Mini. The are still quite a few out there.

Sampson1986
January 13, 2014, 18:30
Loved my Mini-Uzi... Not sure on the closed bolt conversion though. If it is in list to get, I would look for a NIB Vector Mini. The are still quite a few out there.

The closed bolt Mini Uzi my dealer has is a Vector.

I had never heard of such an animal before last Saturday. My dealer said that they are very uncommon but do exist. He apparently knows of two and he happens to have one of them.

I personally don't know if I like the idea of a closed bolt Uzi but one of my co-trustees (my dad) really likes it and is willing to meet me halfway. The estimate my dealer gave me was $7k-$9k which tells me he has less than that into it and we can probably get it for around $13.5k tops.

doneill
January 13, 2014, 22:14
I have a full size vector. No issues with Gi ball ammo. I had a semi feed ramp installed so that it would feed subsonic truncated cone 147 gr bullets. Now it eats anything.

With a Bowers CAC 9 suppressor and 158 gr Fiocchi rounds it is a pretty sounding gun too.


I had a semi conversion kit made for it so that I could compete n closed bolt matches, but the lip that was welded into the bolt to convert the semi bolt to FA configuration broke so i never have trusted it. The semi parts limit bolt movement so it runs faster than when the regular fa parts are in it. I don't low, but this might be true for the mini too.

Good luck.

aardq
January 18, 2014, 02:28
Riff has it right about the certified letter to ATF if you move. Just got the word yesterday that my FNC is now able to be picked up. It was delayed because the previous owner sent the move notice regular mail. The ATF lost the letter or never made the change in their records, and sent the approval to ship the gun to the owner's old address. It took 6 months to get that figured out. And be sure to put the return receipt in a safety deposit box some you know where it is in case it's ever needed.

Dan