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PASHOOTER
September 24, 2011, 15:10
I would like to build an AR15 SBR. I heard that one can no longer buy a registered SBR lower and build a rifle on. You have to purchase a complete rifle that is registered as a SBR. Can anyone clear the up for me.

LaConservationist
September 24, 2011, 15:36
And the whole "Once a rifle, always a rifle." thing has been addressed recently in a letter from the BATFE. They made it clear that you can do whatever you want, it makes no difference in reference to pistol/rifle/pistol.

Just buy a lower or stripped lower and get your paper work for the SBR, when you purchase the lower FTF no problem, if it is new and goes thru a FFL it will be registered as "OTHER" again no issues!

Here is the most recent letter from the BATFE

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

PASHOOTER
September 24, 2011, 15:42
LaC

Thanks, that answered a lot of questions. I think I will get the lower and then do the paper work.

toofar
September 24, 2011, 16:02
I have not heard that you cannot purchase an SBR's lower without purchasing a rifle. I could see that the manufacturers would prefer to sell a complete rifle instead of just the SBR'd lower.

Why don't you just SBR your own lower receiver? I am in the process of SBR'ing my third AR-15 receiver. This requires a Form I from the BATFE, fill it out, get your fingerprints and approval from the "Chief Law enforcement officer in your jurisdiction (or form an NFA trust and place the receiver into the trust- this does NOT require the signature of the CLEO or fingerprints). Pay them their $200 fee and patiently wait (for months) until you get your tax stamp. THen build the rifle and have fun!

When you SBR a receiver, you then become the "manufacturer" of the SBR. You are supposed to engrave the the name of the manufacturer (you, or if a trust then the trust name), city, and state of manufacture on the receiver.

I decided to pay a lawyer ($600) to set up my NFA trust. Some people use stock trust formation software to make them, but I didn't wish to take the risk of missing some critical piece of data making the trust invalid. I used the Goldman law firm at www.guntrustlawyer.com , and was happy with the results. One advantage of the NFA trust is that you can have all your adult family members be trustees and have legal access to all the goodies in the trust. I have been told that is a technical violation of the NFA if individuals other than the person that the weapon is registered to have access to where it is stored, ie does your wife have your gun safe combination?

BATFE forms at this link:

http://www.atf.gov/forms/firearms/

Cool project,
toofar

PASHOOTER
September 25, 2011, 07:18
toofar, If I read your post right. I can do this without going through a Class 3 dealer to register one of my receivers as a SBR.

partisan50
September 25, 2011, 08:46
Originally posted by toofar
I have not heard that you cannot purchase a SBR lower without purchasing a rifle. I could see that the manufacturers would prefer to sell a complete rifle instead of just the SBR'd lower.

It has nothing to do with the manufacture, in the ATFs eyes a lower is not a rifle unless it has an upper on it...ergo it's not a SBR and that's why they don't sell registered lowers only.


Originally posted by PASHOOTER
[B]toofar, If I read your post right. I can do this without going through a Class 3 dealer to register one of my receivers as a SBR.

Yes, you can do it yourself no dealer needed. ATF Form 1 application to make a NFA firearm.

toofar
September 25, 2011, 15:11
PASSHOOTER,

As indicated by Partisan50 above, you do not need to involve a class III dealer if you are doing the ATF Form I yourself to manufacture your own SBR rifle. As a point of clarification, unlike the FAL where the upper receiver is considered the rifle by the ATF, in the AR-15, the lower receiver is the rifle, whether or not it has an upper receiver attached. The Form I registers the lower receiver of this weapon as a SBR. Be aware that the ATF has heartburn if you have a short barreled upper in the same location as any AR lower unless you have the final paperwork approving the construction of the SBR (they call this Constructive Possession, or intent to build an illegal weapon). Just store your upper in a different location until the paperwork arrives.

Cheers

PASHOOTER
September 25, 2011, 17:21
toofar, thanks for the advice. I am planing on getting a lower and do the paper work then I will get my upper later.

One more question. I could not find an answer on the ATF web site. If I decided to use my M4 that now has a 16" barrel on it, could I leave it togther an keep shooting it until my paper work gets approved.

Prototype Services
September 25, 2011, 21:46
Yes,you can shoot your AR as-is even after you get the paperwork, just don't chop the barrel or install a <16" barrel until you get your stamp. Even after you get your lower engraved and registered, you can install a different barrel at any time.

PASHOOTER
September 26, 2011, 08:58
Thanks guys for all the help. I am going to purchase a lower and have it registered. With the time it takes to get approved I will be able to gather everything I need.

Nirvana
September 28, 2011, 18:49
Well...don't gather everything you need....

Don't get the short barrel until after you get the tax stamp in the mail, as its considered constructive possession...

jaykden
September 28, 2011, 21:50
Originally posted by Nirvana
Well...don't gather everything you need....

Don't get the short barrel until after you get the tax stamp in the mail, as its considered constructive possession...


thats debatable

now, having a complete shorty upper thats ready slap on a lower, without having a pistol or SBR lower would be considered constructive possession.