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View Full Version : got my can!!! ***now with pics***


jaykden
August 12, 2011, 16:36
i was pleasantly surprised last thursday to get an email from my dealer over in juneau that my form 4 had just showed up!!! i really thought it would be another couple months... went lots faster than my M-16 transfer.

a big thanks to william shipman! (examiner)


anyway, i bought ferry tickets and went over on sunday. my cousin picked me up at the ferry terminal and took my right up to my dealers place. did the 4473, oogled at some of his toys, then left with the suppressor and form 4.

the suppressor is a YHM 7.62 SS QD Phantom.

i have a PWS brake on my 11.5" 5.56 upper (rides on the M-16 sometimes). the PWS brake is made for the YHM can.

i have a QD hider on one of the FALs, stimp has my gas plug to mod for use with the can

then the main gun for the suppressor is an AR-15 in 300 BLK. i got a 16" cmmg barrel for the build. been working up sub loads with 220 SMKs. i'm currently using converted .223 brass, with 8.9 grns of 296 (basically H110). this load pushes the 220s at 1120-1140 give or take. i dropped down from 9.0 grns only because some of the rounds would just hit supersonic.

i came home monday on the ferry and after work put the QD hider that came with the can on the 300 BLK. then, being bad and evil, snuck out behind the shop and shot big ole round of firewood. my old man was 20 ft away and didn't know i shot, LOL....

last night my friend and i went to the range and used it on the .223 and 300 BLK.

i checked down the bore to eyeball for concentricity and it looked great on both uppers. when i check the FAL, i looks like i can barely see a shadow of the end baffle on the right, not bad, but just a faint dark line, so i think i'm going to remove the barrel and have it sent off and checked, and if its off, have it re-threaded. don't want a baffle strike!!!! also want it to be as even as possible so the accuracy doesn't change even if there are no baffle strikes.


i fired it on the .223 upper first, in F/A too!!! wow was that ever cool, all you could hear was the bullet crack and impacts, couldn't really pick up on any muzzle report. i did hear action noise.

i then swapped it over to the .300 BLK and fired subs. OH WOW!!!!!! action noise, bullet slap and VERY loud richochetes when the rounds hit the ground!!! VERY COOL!!!

then i had a problem. the can got stuck on the 300 BLK upper as it cooled off. i put it on with my coat sleeve after shooting it with the M-16, guess it cooled off and got tight.

couldn't remove it. i brought it in to work this morning, stuck it in the vise with wood and leather protecting it then unscrewed it easily enough. did some reading on the web and now i'm going to get some high temp anti seize or CLP for the QD threads... should keep it from getting stuck again.

all in all, i'm exremely please with how it works. my bullet inpact did not change on the .300 BLK, one thing i was worried about.

now, my next project is saving up for a 9MM and .22Lr can....

:love: :love:

i'll post pitchers later...

Andy the Aussie
August 12, 2011, 17:00
When I said I was going to "silence you forever" this is NOT what I had in mind... ;)

Sound like fun mate...!!!! Can you hunt with it (legally I mean) .. ??

jaykden
August 12, 2011, 18:02
oh yeah, alaska is a good state.

the only thing we can't hunt with up here are machine guns.


i'm going to get my LR-308 threaded and add a QD hider to it. i plan on using the suppressor for long range beach hunting this coming winter. i'll be shooting my supersonic .308 loads that i normally use but it'll be nice with very little muzzle report. plus the deer will be confused (when there is more than 1 of course, ;) )

Deltaten
August 12, 2011, 19:17
I *am* jellis ;)

Your tales have convinced me that once I drag myself from this economic slump..I, too, will become a "silent partner" and get tagged for a can.
Gotta be great for chasing varmints around the yard nice and quiet like :D

Hussshhhh!
Paul

AlaskanMBR
August 13, 2011, 09:51
Yay Jake! I have a 5.56 SRT Hurricane QD in the works right now... Pretty slick QD setup, great suppression.

Tnguy
August 13, 2011, 18:30
Jaykden:

Tell me more about the FAL gas plug mod. for your YHM Suppressor, please.

I have the same suppresor on my FAL and I have the gas cut all the back, but it still kicks the brass about 20 feet out!

Thanks!

jaykden
August 13, 2011, 20:50
send a PM to stimpsonjcat, he's doing the mod on mine now.

i think he welds up the hole and re-drills it smaller... (i think, not certain though).


i considered not bothering, but decided i didn't want to beat up my FAL any more than necessary.

MK ULTRA
August 14, 2011, 18:16
What happened to the bill where if you build a can or machine gun in Alaska and it stays in Alaska you don't have to register it??

That would be a 14th amendment issue.

Hope it passes.

jaykden
August 14, 2011, 20:50
gov parnell signed it into law a while back.

so far i don't know anyone whos tested it out yet. the local and state cops, in theory, won't bust you for an item thats made and stays within the state, but there ARE federal cops around here, and the USCG out on the water, who probably would follow federal law, not alaska state law.

i was checked by a state trooper a while back when shooting the M-16 at the range.... and he ended up joining the local search and rescue team that i'm a member of, he's a pretty nice guy. the the next SAR meeting, i'll ask him about his opinions on how he'd enforce a MG or suppressor marked "made in alaska".

another reason i didn't make a suppressor is the simple fact i don't have the tooling, know-how or know someone who would do it for me.

stimpsonjcat
August 15, 2011, 11:09
Your plug has been modded and will go out today or tomorrow. :biggrin:

Priority mail good enough?

The plug mod is a simple concept, just allowing less gas into the gas system, as the can adds backpressure, as well as letting less gas out by covering the vent hole at the adjustment collar.

Basically I grind out the vent notch and grind a ditch in the hole location, then weld over, grind both back to profile, and redrill the hole at about half the original size.

I have done I think a couple of these now for folks. No problems yet.

AlaskanMBR
August 20, 2011, 09:29
Pics???

jaykden
August 20, 2011, 21:13
so i got out to the range this afternoon. i about didn't go as its been pouring down rain all day. i was watching some dexter and noticed around 3 that the rain had slowed down some. i was already to go since this morning so i loaded my gear, the dog, and guns and headed out.

i had told bruce (stimp) to mod the gas plug for a 17" barrel, but after i gave him the info, i noticed the like almost looked like i could MAYBE see the edge of the end baffle when looking through the barrel. maybe it was my imagination but there was a very faint shadow on the right side.

i removed the QD flashhider and installed it on a spare rhodie barrel (21") i had laying around. this barrel has a nice bore and a chromed chamber. anyway, with the suppressor on that barrel , i looked through and it looked PERFECT!

i then swapped the barrels out and bobs your uncle.

the plug was in my box yesterday (thanks again bruce), so i decided i would go shooting today.

anyway, since i swapped barrels, i did my initial sight-in with south african at 50 yrds. at that range the SA was shooting into 1.25" or so. its the first time i've used this barrel. i was pleased. this is without the suppressor.

after i got it all sighted in, did some shooting at 200 yrds and nailed everything i was aiming at. i was pleased.

i then screwed on the suppressor, leaving the original unaltered gas plug in. impact was almost the same place as without. lotsa bullet crack (knew that would happen) but its definitely hearing safe. i was making steady hits with the suppressor from 100 to 200 yrds. i was worried the suppressor may throw the rounds. it did not. brass flew about 25 feet!!! and that was with the gas adjustment opened a couple notches to 6

i then put in the gas plug that bruce modded for me. a little quieter and brass fell a nice 10 feet away from the bench. still had to open up the left the gas adjustment at 6

now for the interesting revelation.

i brought out some 168SMK reloads, with 42 grains of IMR 4895. this load shoots well in my other FAL. well, on paper, (only at 50 yrds, i know, but the rain had started back in again and didn't feel like walking down to 100, plus that fact that its a darkish day out, i didn't know if i could clearly see the 1MOA square through the rifles irons)....

anyway, on paper at 50 yrds these loads shot about the same as the SA without the suppressor...

WITH the suppressor, they shot TIGHTER!!! like under 1" groups, instead of 1.25"....

i proceeded to shoot and hit everything i aimed at with those loads suppressed out to 200 yrds.

i did some subsonic shooting with the 300 BLK AR. it was a lot of fun shooting the steel gong at 100 yrds with that, pop.... TWANNGGG!!!

anyway, heres some photos from todays range session:

this is the 300 BLK

http://i54.tinypic.com/x4hq0x.jpg


the FAL

http://i55.tinypic.com/dr5t20.jpg


another

http://i55.tinypic.com/2ut2a6p.jpg


standard plug on the left, modded plug on the right, again, compliments to bruce (stimpsonjcat). IT WORKED GREAT!

http://i51.tinypic.com/2mm956b.jpg

Andy the Aussie
August 20, 2011, 21:34
Thanks for the pics Jake...but setups look GOOD..!!! I used a can on a 10.5inch XM177 back in the day and it really was a neat setup .. :)

jaykden
August 21, 2011, 01:07
andy, were cans legal in NSW then?

a bud of mine in WA has a .22 can (illegal, has been for a long time in WA). he bought it in south AU back before the current nation-wide laws went into effect. he said they were legal there and he bought his in a hardware store or some such place. he was driving across the country at the time.

Andy the Aussie
August 21, 2011, 03:58
Originally posted by jaykden
andy, were cans legal in NSW then? ..... ummmmmmm....yes of course they were mate.... it is ME you are talking to....honest.... can I interest you in some waterfront property while we are talking... :devil:

stimpsonjcat
August 21, 2011, 11:13
Excellent.

I am still puzzling out some methods for dealing with the extra gas that the system wants to bleed at the gas block and gas tube. Properly tuned I think a closed gas system will be the quietest option.

Since I plan on making an interchangable bbl system for the FA FAL when the paperwork finally clears, I will probably make a sealed gas system front end with a nice short bbl for it.

jaykden
August 21, 2011, 12:57
Originally posted by Andy the Aussie
..... ummmmmmm....yes of course they were mate.... it is ME you are talking to....honest.... can I interest you in some waterfront property while we are talking... :devil:

ha-ha smart guy.

:tongue:

jaykden
August 21, 2011, 13:01
Originally posted by stimpsonjcat
Excellent.

I am still puzzling out some methods for dealing with the extra gas that the system wants to bleed at the gas block and gas tube. Properly tuned I think a closed gas system will be the quietest option.

Since I plan on making an interchangable bbl system for the FA FAL when the paperwork finally clears, I will probably make a sealed gas system front end with a nice short bbl for it.

sealed, as in "AR-15" sealed?

i agree that the less gas escaping the better.


one thing i noticed (i think its normal) was the insides of the rifle were quite a bit more dirty with the can. i removed a half full mag part way through and there was a bunch of grim and crap on the top few rounds sitting in the mag.

LAFAL
August 21, 2011, 19:40
very nice! I like your .300 setup- what scope is that? I can't wait to try out my 220 gr reloads and the 175s through mine. Glad your mod'd gas plug worked so well. I'm hoping to send one off soon to get it "corrected" for can use as well:D :D :D

jaykden
August 21, 2011, 20:09
its a cheapo millet DMS-1

it works well enough for me, although i don't know how it'll stand up to the abuse of hunting the alaskan wilderness in november and december for deer.

i'm working up supersonic loads for it now. currently, i'm getting 150 nosler ballistic tips throught the chrony at 1975-2000 FPS... but its slightly over pressured. i'm seeing ejector marks in the brass and one primer fell out while it was in the brass catcher.

also trying out loads with 130 hornady SPs and 150 remington PSPs. the remingtons shouldn't build up as much pressure as the noslers as they don't seat as deep.

i am liking the 300 BLK

:love:

stimpsonjcat
August 21, 2011, 20:26
Originally posted by jaykden


sealed, as in "AR-15" sealed?

i agree that the less gas escaping the better.


one thing i noticed (i think its normal) was the insides of the rifle were quite a bit more dirty with the can. i removed a half full mag part way through and there was a bunch of grim and crap on the top few rounds sitting in the mag.

The plan is to make a custom gas block that has no plug at all. It will have a means of adjusting the amount of gas that is let thru to the piston head. There will be no adjustment collar at all, and no escape vents in the gas tube.

Yes, the can makes the rifle get dirty. This is a common misunderstanding about how semi rifles operate. Remember, the brass gets yanked from the chamber before the pressure has dropped, which is why you can't stuff an ejected case back in without a jam. Adding the can adds a pressure vessel on the end of the bbl that contains the pressure for longer than the bbl would normally, and this means that whatever waste would normally exit at the muzzle gets divided and some of it comes back down the tube to the chamber.

TOWS220
August 28, 2011, 10:00
I'm really interested in this stuff you are doing with suppressing fals. An upcoming project of mine is going to be a fal built specifically to be a host for a thread on reflex-style suppressor.
Can you tell me some more about your idea for a "closed" gas system? What exactly is the goal of it?
Also, what impact might removing the vent hole from the gas tube have?

Beepy
August 28, 2011, 15:20
a bud of mine in WA has a .22 can (illegal, has been for a long time in WA).

They were legal, as long as you did not fire the firearm, you could own them .... HOWEVER... As of last month they are now LEGAL to shoot in WA!!!!!!!!!! WOOT

Andy the Aussie
August 28, 2011, 18:28
Originally posted by Beepy


They were legal, as long as you did not fire the firearm, you could own them .... HOWEVER... As of last month they are now LEGAL to shoot in WA!!!!!!!!!! WOOT ....see Beepy... this is how this forum has shrunk the world...Jake in Alaska in this instance is using WA as an abbreviation for Western Australia (as we do out here) not Washington ..... :)

jaykden
August 28, 2011, 19:14
:rofl:

stimpsonjcat
August 28, 2011, 20:40
Originally posted by TOWS220
I'm really interested in this stuff you are doing with suppressing fals. An upcoming project of mine is going to be a fal built specifically to be a host for a thread on reflex-style suppressor.
Can you tell me some more about your idea for a "closed" gas system? What exactly is the goal of it?
Also, what impact might removing the vent hole from the gas tube have?

Sure, but it is a pretty simple idea.

Basically a gas operated weapon needs to bleed a certain amount of gas off from the bbl and redirect it in order to make the weapon cycle. Since normally these weapons are LOUD and troops have generally been expected to be OK with that, no real concern was placed on getting the tuning of the gas system...exactly...right.

So, in general these systems are designed to have MORE gas than is really needed enter the gas system. In the FAL, there are two primary locations where there are escape vents for getting rid of whatever gas is deemed 'extra'. These are 1) the gas bleed notch in the gas plug...which is either covered or exposed by the gas collar and 2) the side vents in the gas tube itself.

Regarding location 1. The gas escaping here is pretty close to the same pressure as the gas in the bbl. We have a small restriction (unless the bbl is shortened, which is more common for suppressed applications it seems) and an adjusting gap and that is all between say 30,000PSI and the air around us. So for sure this is going to make some noise even if the muzzle didn't.

Regarding position 2. This location is separated from higher pressure by a few more inches, and more volume, as well as a delay in time as the holes are not exposed until the piston has travelled. But still if you will note a lot of crud appears here, so we can surmise there is a fair amount of pressure at this location, and again, pressure to atmo equals noise.

So the simple idea is "Don't let any more gas into the system than it actually needs to operate" and "Don't have holes where high pressure gas is vented directly to atmo"

So basically I am going to make a gas block with no vent, and a sealed tube with no holes. The tube will include a means of adjusting aperture of the gas hole between the bbl and the piston face to get just enough gas to cycle the action.

Obviously too much gas beats the system up and too little causes jams, we already deal with these issues on a regular basis. For this system, some excess ejection may be preferable to running too close to an adjustment that causes stoppages.

I hope that helps.

TOWS220
August 29, 2011, 12:09
That makes perfect sense.

Would using a sealed gas tube and doing away with the regulator, then using a modified gas plug be sufficient? The only problem I can see with that is that you would lose the ability to make minor adjustments to the gas system.

Also, does your modified gas plug have a position for suppressed and a position for unsupressed fire or do you have to swap gas plugs?

The option of full adjustability in the gas block seems to be the best bet overall. If you don't mind divulging your secret plans, what are your thoughts on that route?

stimpsonjcat
August 29, 2011, 14:27
You have to swap plugs.

There a number of great minds aroun here working on the adjustable plug solution.