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mealworm
June 18, 2011, 14:03
Ok I've Decided that I want a metric fal and I thought I wanted a para. but since I started doing my research I'm seeing a lot of post on these forums and others about the fal losing its manueverabilty and experencing more felt recoil and muzzle jump.
The reason in planing on buying and building :fal: is as a reliable shf rifle that I know inside and out. The reason I'm thinking para is for ease of moving through the bush with a folded rifle vs a full length.. And also if seen before seeing, to avoid having the silhouette of a large battle rifle prominently displayed on my back.
I never plan on firing the rifle folded unless absolutely necessary(or for fun:biggrin:).
So my question is are these draw backs real / or even as prevalent as some have said and do any of you think they out weigh the reasons I chose a para for in the first place?

Teufeldog
June 18, 2011, 14:17
It's ok to want a para just cuz it looks cool. I never fold the stock on mine.

RGraff
June 18, 2011, 15:01
I've owned a tactical carbine and currently own an OSW. While muzzle flip or jump is a bit more than a full length rifle it is by no means un-manageable or difficult to master. To be honest, for some reason my OSW (11") seems to have less muzzle rise than my tactical (16") did. Not sure why unless it has something to do with the stock.

mealworm
June 18, 2011, 23:40
@ rgraff: Your osw and tac.16" where both dsa factory built rifles correct? Dsa claimed in some of there videos and advertising that they've taken steps to minimize the recoil of there factory built rifles. can anyone say wether this is true or just good pr
@teufeldog : oh I agree 100% but I only plan on getting one fal so spending 2/3 hundred to convert a great rifle to an ok one is kinda inexcusable.. If I decide on a second than I can get the fonzie of the bunch

So the question remains has anyone converted a fal that they shot often and where familiar with to a para and noticed any negative effects on the way it handles and or shoots; significant or minor. And what if any steps you where able to take to correct the issue

Hoot G
June 19, 2011, 02:55
I didn't convert a standard to a para, but I have a couple that are similar enough to compare. These are 17.5" versions. Others may be different.

The felt recoil difference is minimal. I didn't try to change anything, because it didn't make enough difference to matter.

Muzzle rise didn't change, to me, or maybe just a tiny bit. Maneuverability got better with a folded stock, which is what I wanted. Extended it doesn't seem to make any difference. I can't imagine why it would.

My guess is that there are a lot of wannabe "experts" that don't know shite, but that doesn't stop them from telling you what they "know." Or, they're wimps, shouldn't have a real battle rifle anyway, and need to go back to their poodle shooters. Certainly, there's nothing about a standard vs. a para that any differences would put off a real ranger skulking through the woods in search of enemy to engage.

My personal 2, FWIW.

Lee Carpentieri
June 19, 2011, 03:52
You hear allot about muzzle climb with allot of different weapons. What it really boils down too is PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. Like others here, I own a Full-Auto OSW that DSA built for me 10 years ago. BUT, I had DSA install a Galil ARM Folding stock in their pivot block, It has the rubber recoil pad built into the butt plate which does help in reduced felt recoil and at 950 RPM on Full-auto it can be a hand full, But like I said, Practice make's for a good operator. Amongst other Fals I own is a First year produced DSA 16 inch barreled carbine. It has a Argentine barrel with the 22mm Combo muzzle brake on it. Very accurate for what it is and has a standard butt stock on it. With all the different types of para stocks for the Fal you do have options.

Andy the Aussie
June 19, 2011, 04:01
A para come into it's own in two circumstances, confined spaces (not fighting in them but moving such as in a vehicle) and (some would say most importantly) THE COOL FACTOR ... :)

You don't want to be moving through the bush with the stock folded as you have left yourself with an ungainly and clumsy handgun ...;) I have ALWAYS thought the "Bush Rifle" style FALs made a GREAT deal of sense...!!! Short(er) barrel but with a fixed butt.

Can't beat a para for "The Kewl" though .... !! Get what yu want but be honest with yourself about why you are... :)

Andy

AZ Dave
June 19, 2011, 11:28
I had a para and although it looked cool,I didnt like the way it felt when firing it. Get one and see for yourself if it's for you. My personal favorite is the 18" bush rifle.

cbr954fz1
June 19, 2011, 14:54
very good question but w/the question comes doubt...i say own a full stock, then build a para lower for $500 + and which ever lower you dont like.. sell it cause you wont lose much if any$$ on your investment..then answer your question..cbr:fal:

mealworm
June 19, 2011, 17:10
I definitely agree that the 18 and 16" barrel falls are an very good option.. I don't think I would consider either with out seeing the difference in muzzle velocity and bullet drop between the different length barrels..
If anyone can point me towards that info if would be greatly appreciated

@Cbr954fz1if I had two different lowers I don't thin I could bring myself to sell it i'd proably just end up building another:fal:

Andy the Aussie
June 19, 2011, 18:32
I can't give you the figures but in most regards the 18 inch length makes the most sense. You can generally have that without reliability issues (not all short rifles will suffer and there are some GREAT ones about) and still retain most of the velocity the round provides. Most find the fixed butt is the most comfortable to shoot, I personally have no issues with the paras at all but have to admit the wood stock on an L1A1 is about as comfortable as you get on these rifles...well in my opinion at least.

Andy

DYNOMIKE
June 19, 2011, 18:41
I think it would be best to get a second job, save up the $$ and buy one of EACH.. This is a MUCH better option than limiting yourself to but ONE FAL anyway.. :devil:

On a serious note I like them both and wouldn't want to get rid of either type.
The PARAS shoot great and handle well, can be folded for a more compact transport, and of course have a pretty significant COOL Factor as has been mentioned.

Full stocked rifles handle fine in most pedestrian scenarios so I don't think there is a big advantage or disadvantage to either for most peeps.

One of my Paras has a very effective MD on it so muzzle rise and or recoil are pretty much nothing at all..

4 brigada
June 19, 2011, 20:00
My choice would be the 21 inch para. Im a little biased on the opinion since I have a personal conection with 21in argie para. My choice has some, IMO, valid points. The recoil and muzzle climb are valid but are minimum , they originate on the design differences of the recoil system and the stock. I think that its a fair trade off for having the folding stock, which is a plus in while traveling in a vehicle. I dont know about cool factor since all FAL's are cool to me. But as it has been pointed out, Its a battle rifle, a mans rifle and trained troops would never be carrying their rifles with the stock folded while walking patrols, maybe if they where in a hollywood backlot. Being confortable that comes with training and use , the old cliche, become one with the weapon so then it wouldnt matter. I would go with the para as my first FAL

mealworm
June 20, 2011, 15:39
Ok so after talk ing to my local authorities they are not interested in giving out tax stamps to anyone in the county is just not something they do so inorder to remain in compliance with federal statutes it lookes like I'll be going with a bush rifle with a barrel no shorter than 16.25" (witch will cost me anywhere from 3 to 4 hundred fps ..not that bad) maybe I should start making annual donations to the fop or move to a county where I know more cops:tongue:

Hoot G
June 20, 2011, 16:41
To get around your local anti-gun cops, you can form a corporation, which doesn't require a local fuzz ok. If you really want an SBR, check in the Class 3 forum, the info is there.

jbrooks
June 20, 2011, 17:00
As 4 brigada, 21" Argy para for me too. I have both lowers so I swap them around. Stock is folded just while in the vehicle, it comes out when dismounted. If you're staling thru the woods, you better have the stock unfolded. 'Cuz somebody is probably stalking you. :)

My cheek piece (with scope) is a 6" section of styrofoam insulation for water pipes.

JWB

EMSflyer
June 20, 2011, 23:40
I converted my 21" Imbel to an 18" Para and really like it.

It points faster and shoulders quicker than a full length FAL.
Recoil is a non-issue.

Just added a DSA Para scope mount and mounted my Aimpoint M2.

Fits very well in a small padded rifle case behind the seat of my truck.

MistWolf
June 21, 2011, 02:56
I have a Para w/18" barrel and I really like it. Folding stock means I can put it in a smaller case or bag and it's easier to pack in my vehicle and it's less obvious it's a firearm. Para stock cheek weld is a little less comfortable but not so much that I shoot the rifle less.

The reality is, build a Para and a full stock rifle is just a matter of removing the hinge pin and changing the lower

mealworm
June 21, 2011, 17:33
Ok recived some bad info as to weather or not the assault weapons ban had sun seted or not no wonder the cops looked at me so funny.. lookes like I'll be building a 18" para
Will repost as I accumulate the parts and tools I need.
Thanks for all the help,
Worm

torquemada055
June 21, 2011, 23:47
Alrighty then, here's my brothers 18" "bush rifle"
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x140/torquemada55/Curt2.jpg

Here's my son's 18" para,
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x140/torquemada55/Picture002.jpg

Here's my short gas mostly Inch Para upper, on my Aussie SLR lower
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x140/torquemada55/PICT4833.jpg

After shooting them all, I like my short gas Para Upper on the SLR lower best. It might just be the stock fit or the smell's associated with memories of being a much younger man when I first shot one or whatever, but it fits and shoots best for me.:biggrin: :whiskey: :wink:

I know my opinion dont count for much, just wanted to show off some of the family toys! Thanks for looking.

Btw, IF you can afford it, just build two complete uppers and then switch them between the lower. That way you can have a full size rifle upper and a short gas upper and still enjoy a full stock that fits just fine.

AZ Dave
June 23, 2011, 22:11
Hey Torque, Did Rich at CGW build that bush woodie? I've seen that picture many times here and it makes me want one BAD!!!!

torquemada055
June 23, 2011, 22:31
I totally forgot to give credit for those great builds I posted.

The top and middle ones are both built by Rich@CGW, the short gas upper is from Adam762 and the Aussie SLR lower was also built by Rich@CGW.

I'm VERY SORRY Guy's to have left out so important a detail.