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goosebrown
April 17, 2011, 12:04
Installing my first LS in an Entreprise BGS receiver. Got the LS from DSA. It doesn't fit, too large in diameter and the dogleg is too large.

I believe that I can either sand the pin down or sand the hole in the upper to open it a little.

What should I do?

Hoot G
April 17, 2011, 13:37
That isn't right. Let Arnold know and he'll fix it.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :devil:

Given that this is supposed to be an in-spec receiver, I'd check the pin, as realnutjob said. Having said that, since it's an Entreprise receiver, and that the dogleg doesn't fit, I'd get ready to file/sand the LS till it fits.

I don't know how much you know about building FAL's, so no disrespect meant, but have you ever installed an LS before? They can be kinda tight.

goosebrown
April 17, 2011, 14:01
No disrespect taken. I have done one before (I lied in the first post, but it was a Hesse receiver so I reckon I have plausible deniability in as much as it isn't a *REAL* FAL ...)

That one was snug and I installed it with a wood clamp and tightened it till it sat right. Seems very tight and solid. I was anticipating the same here.

I know that they are supposed to be tight, but this just wasn't working.

I will measure with the micrometer and am going to the gunshow today. I might find one smaller and if not I will sand the pin.

When I say it doesn't fit, it is not by that much, not like it is WRONG but just too tight.

IRONWORKER
April 17, 2011, 14:22
If the pin is the correct OD then i would ream the receiver hole to spec - Also I'm setting my HS dead on 1.630, if there has EVER been receivers that will have set-back it's these from Enterprise :rolleyes:

I hope the damn things are HT'ed properly but i can't help but have LITTLE faith in em' - I'm checking HS every 250 - 500rds to make sure :uhoh:

Hoot G
April 17, 2011, 15:14
Hesse? I wouldn't admit that either. ;) Nahh, it's real, and if you can make one work, you can claim skills that others don't have. :)

Try tapping it in with a brass hammer. I've never tried using a clamp, but I'm pretty sure that at least one of my LS wouldn't have gone in with a wood clamp. If they're parked or painted, you might want to scratch off the finish in the receiver hole and the LS ends too. The parts will take a lot of abuse, but you shouldn't need to bash on them. Although, if the dogleg doesn't fit, that will still be a problem.

Reason I said I'd modify the LS is in case you have further troubles with the receiver. That way they can't claim that you modified it and use that excuse to get out of honoring their warranty. Normally I recommend fixing the out of spec part, but in this case, I'd avoid the potential warranty issues.

As Ironworker said, there may be problems that aren't yet evident. :(

Best luck!

IRONWORKER
April 17, 2011, 15:51
Originally posted by Hoot G


Reason I said I'd modify the LS is in case you have further troubles with the receiver. That way they can't claim that you modified it and use that excuse to get out of honoring their warranty. Normally I recommend fixing the out of spec part, but in this case, I'd avoid the potential warranty issues.





WOW, i hadn't thought of that - A undersized LS hole is no biggie, i had to ream the LS hole on a DSA rec a few months back BUT i was confident that other than that & tight barrel threads it was a very nice receiver - These Enterprise receivers are a different story, even with a "nice" one who knows what might show up in a few thousand rds - From my limited experience with them they have extremely good CS, just to cover your ass it might be wise to let them fix it if it is indeed undersized

Hoot G
April 17, 2011, 16:19
:wink:

I'm not usually a belt and suspenders kind of guy, but in the case of Entreprise, I believe it's best to have both. Arnold has been very responsive, but if money gets tight at the company, who knows how long that will last. If I remember right, Matt started out that way too.

gunnut1
April 17, 2011, 16:29
The locking shoulder is an interference fit. It will appear too big when compared to the hole. It has to be pressed in. They are not drop in parts. Do not sand the locking shoulder or ream the hole. As has been mentioned, get a good set of calipers and measure each. The hole and the LS should be close to each other in size, I anm sorry, I do not know the numbers. On all of the locking shoulders I have installed, some have had to be pressed in all the way, some have dropped in until it gets to the left side of the receiver and then has to be pressed in and I have some that I have to press fit through the entrance hole and it fell through then had to be pressed into the left side of the receiver.

As far as the lug being too big. A small file and some careful filing and fitting will bring it back down to size.


I am not a machinist. So someone should be also later to correct me.

goosebrown
April 17, 2011, 18:42
The hole is .277 and the post is .297. That is too much to pound in. I will check the schematics and figure out which is out of spec and work on that.

I hate sanding...

Drtrumpet
April 17, 2011, 18:47
Interference fit for diameters smaller than 1 inch should be .001 or less.

Hoot G
April 17, 2011, 18:51
Originally posted by goosebrown
The hole is .277 and the post is .297. That is too much to pound in. I will check the schematics and figure out which is out of spec and work on that.

I hate sanding...

You'd need a really big hammer for that! Bummer.

I'll check some locking shoulders I have here and let you know what I get for measurements later tonight.

msnyder
April 17, 2011, 19:36
My Entreprise receiver had an undersized LS hole. Don't force the locking shoulder into the out of spec reciever. Ream the hole to about .002" smaller than your locking shoulder or send it to Entreprise and have them fix it.

Super B
April 17, 2011, 22:33
Whatever happened to "cut on the least expensive part?"

johnny.308
April 17, 2011, 22:50
I believe .296 is the "standard" size LS hole for a new receiver. If your's is .277 I would send it back to Entreprise for the fix.

Hoot G
April 17, 2011, 23:23
I just measured 6 used LS and 2 new. All of them were .296 to .297 on both sides.

FWIW

goosebrown
April 18, 2011, 06:50
@Hoot. Thianks. That is the info I need. I will call Albert this AM and use my own advice... He'll fix it.

Still of all the problems reported, this is nothing really. At least it isn't too large.

BTW, did you guys know that there is a pretty tight spring there in the extractor... It sailed off into the garage into my ceramics studio somewhere... sigh... Who knew...

IRONWORKER
April 18, 2011, 07:05
Originally posted by Super B
Whatever happened to "cut on the least expensive part?"

Why turn down a in-spec LS to fit a out-a-spec receiver? - Besides, it's much easier to ream the rec to spec than it is to properly turn a LS down

LaConservationist
April 18, 2011, 08:47
Originally posted by goosebrown
That one was snug and I installed it with a wood clamp and tightened it till it sat right. Seems very tight and solid. I was anticipating the same here.

I know that they are supposed to be tight, but this just wasn't working.

I will measure with the micrometer and am going to the gunshow today. I might find one smaller and if not I will sand the pin.

When I say it doesn't fit, it is not by that much, not like it is WRONG but just too tight.

Hey I am damn sure no specialist in the matter, BUT trying to install a LS with a wood clamp seems to be a little "SOFT" most of the reading I have done requires a press or like I use a PIN and a vise.
Just courious is a wood clamp really giving enough pressure to seat the LS?

I guess I am asking and learning more so than making recommendations.

THANKS GUYS, these are the type threads that I enjoy so much, and gives me the most knowledge!

LaC

4markk
April 18, 2011, 09:50
Originally posted by goosebrown
[BBTW, did you guys know that there is a pretty tight spring there in the extractor... It sailed off into the garage into my ceramics studio somewhere... sigh... Who knew... [/B]

:rofl: I still have an MIA spring from years past, I think it is embedded in a wall somewhere. That's why I think that extractor tool is one of my best investments.

goosebrown
April 18, 2011, 09:53
OK there are wood clamps and there are WOOD CLAMPS. I am using the latter.

These are the 8lb rock maple sort with the two independent jaws on 1/2" screws. You can torque the F*** out of them and I assure you they can press the LS in to the receiver, assuming there is a fit to begin with, to a fair-the-well. They worked a charm on the Hesse I had. They apply steady, even pressure, you can align the jaws so that the one side is over the LS and the other is offset enough to allow it to protrude proud on the other side from the dogleg if the pin is that long. A vise won't do that as easily. Oh... and they won't mar any part ever.

shootnstuff
April 18, 2011, 10:23
You don't want to ruin a good and expensive part. So leave that locking shoulder alone and ream the Entreprise receiver LS hole. If you go too far consider it an omen and buy a DSA.:biggrin:

gunplumber
April 18, 2011, 10:38
I just spent over an hour fitting a locking shoulder to an out of spec Entre'prise receiver. The right side of the hole was undersize and there was a slight lip. Really pissed me off. Entre'prise obviously can't be bothered to make the most rudimentary checks on their receivers before shipping them out.

I'm going to have to have a special reamer made.

On oversize shoulders, one presses a bearing through the hole to swage it to size for the oversize LS, but I've never tried it for an undersize receiver (cause nobody else scres this part up!).

Wolfsburg1
April 18, 2011, 14:39
Hmm, looks like I need to source some calipers and see what size my LS hole is. All I know is that a LS won't drop right in, but that isn't a bad thing at this point.

Lniceshot
April 18, 2011, 15:49
The correct solution is send the POS back to Entre'prise for a refund and order a new Coonan T1C. You'll sleep better:biggrin:

gobbler
April 18, 2011, 16:59
Originally posted by goosebrown
@Hoot. Thianks. That is the info I need. I will call Albert this AM and use my own advice... He'll fix it.

Still of all the problems reported, this is nothing really. At least it isn't too large.

BTW, did you guys know that there is a pretty tight spring there in the extractor... It sailed off into the garage into my ceramics studio somewhere... sigh... Who knew...

My removal tool slipped while removing one & the spring stuck in finger.....they are STRONG!

gobbler

goosebrown
April 18, 2011, 18:18
FALfinger? You sound like a Bond villain.

Hoot G
April 18, 2011, 18:41
Originally posted by goosebrown
FALfinger? You sound like a Bond villain.

I think I have a shirt around here somewhere...


:biggrin:

tigerfans2
April 18, 2011, 19:26
not for pressing in a really oversized ls orinto a really undersized receiver but I've found a good vise with a piece of aluminum angle on both sides works fine, the side away from the dogleg needs a hole in it for clearance

turn the handle and watch the ls go in

harleyrider
April 20, 2011, 09:38
I'm prepping my Entreprise receiver to ship back for replacement and decided to go ahead and measure the LS hole for the hell of it. Mine mics out at .284-.286 depending on which side you measure, the orientation of the caliper, and dodging the burrs that were not removed by Entreprise after drilling the LS hole. :mad:

For reference, I measured the few locking shoulders that I have and they all measured .297. Also, I measured my brand new IMBEL from Pat and the LS holes measure exactly .296.

So, I now have yet another item to add to my growing laundry list of problems that Entreprise must address on my replacement receiver. :rolleyes:


HR

Drtrumpet
April 20, 2011, 12:47
Seems like they simply forgot to ream the hole.