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View Full Version : Hot blue or Gunkote "blue"???


IRONWORKER
April 06, 2011, 15:07
Alright, finally ready to get my BGS up & running, I've got........

blued kit, a parked barrel & a ITW rec

Originally i intended to just screw it together but now I've decided to re-finish everything so that the rifle will match, question is what kind of finish should i go with? - I've narrowed it down to either a hot blue or Gunkote "blue" finish - How close does blue Gunkote look to a real blued finish?

Abominog
April 06, 2011, 15:28
Well you have a BGS kit, a BGS replacement receiver.

Particularly if the numbers match, you might as well do a proper restoration and have it hot blued.

Paint is paint. And as far as I'm concerned paint over bare metal isn't worth a thing, so it should be parked before painting, in which case- for the money- you'd might as well blue it.

IRONWORKER
April 06, 2011, 15:45
I'm going to have Randy Kline do the refinishing, i WANT the hot blue look but i would love to have the Gunkote rust resistance (ie shoot the piss out of it then let all your son & his buddies handle it & not worry about wiping it down before it goes back in the safe!)

harleyrider
April 07, 2011, 09:11
I'm very partial to hot blued rifles myself. I love the way it ages & the patina it gathers with use over time. Plus, it won't rust as long as you give it a little TLC every now & then.

HR

gunplumber
April 07, 2011, 10:09
Originally posted by Abominog
Paint is paint. And as far as I'm concerned paint over bare metal isn't worth a thing, so it should be parked before painting, in which case- for the money- you'd might as well blue it.

I wonder what you base this on?

First, GK is not in the same chemical category as paint, it is a bonded solid film lubricant. Stuff like Krylon is "paint". Stuff like Sherwin Williams floor paint or Duracoat is "epoxy paint." Stuff like GK, MK, CK, - they aren't exactly "paint".

There is no difference in its adhesion or thermal bonding based on a phosphate barrier on the substrate. While I agree that phosphate is a good primer, it is for reasons of covering non-sprayable areas like the inside of magazines or gas tubes. I have seen no evidence that a color plate primed with phosphate will be more durable than without.

Phosphate is about 10x more durable than bluing - which is just controlled rust. And the "paint" about 10x that of phosphate.

I didn't know KG offered a "blue" color. Anywone seen it? Might be something to check out - 'cause when I do Belgium commercial restorations, a few parts are suppsed to be blued or black oxide (hinge pin, bolt carrier), while the rest is paint over park, or park only.

Abominog
April 07, 2011, 12:03
Originally posted by gunplumber


I wonder what you base this on?

First, GK is not in the same chemical category as paint, it is a bonded solid film lubricant. Stuff like Krylon is "paint". Stuff like Sherwin Williams floor paint or Duracoat is "epoxy paint." Stuff like GK, MK, CK, - they aren't exactly "paint".

There is no difference in its adhesion or thermal bonding based on a phosphate barrier on the substrate. While I agree that phosphate is a good primer, it is for reasons of covering non-sprayable areas like the inside of magazines or gas tubes. I have seen no evidence that a color plate primed with phosphate will be more durable than without.

Phosphate is about 10x more durable than bluing - which is just controlled rust. And the "paint" about 10x that of phosphate.

I didn't know KG offered a "blue" color. Anywone seen it? Might be something to check out - 'cause when I do Belgium commercial restorations, a few parts are suppsed to be blued or black oxide (hinge pin, bolt carrier), while the rest is paint over park, or park only.

I was afraid you were going to jump me because I didn't qualify the answer well. Of course, your observations, as always, are spot-on.

You yourself have criticized paints such as Duracoat. And while it's possible- maybe even probable- that a great paint may adhere very well to bare metal, in most cases- particularly the home painter- it won't adhere as well as having park under it. Further, when it is scratched, it is preferable to have park under it as opposed to bare metal.

The protection and adhesion of various paints/ expoxies as you know are variable, and are in themselves affected by variables (eg preparation.) I didn't get into that, as you've done in the past.

All things considered, I'd rather have a coat of park under the paint.

Yes, blueing will not hold up like park or a good paint. It's a bit of a chore to maintain. For a firearm that's going to see a lot of use, blueing is not a good long-term solution. However, for a restored firearm like a BGS with matching numbers, and may see limited use, blueing would be the cat's meow.

gunplumber
April 07, 2011, 12:31
You yourself have criticized paints such as Duracoat.

Yes, but the OP asked about GK which is not duracoat. It is far superior in every respect.



All things considered, I'd rather have a coat of park under the paint.

I agree, but I can't PROVE it quantitatively, at least with the higher grade coatings of which Krylon and Duracoat are not. And of course, with equal meticulous surface prep.

I think surface prep is more important than parkerizing for a good paint type finish.

If parkerizing forces the applyer to do a better job of surface prep, then that would be a sound reason in itself - nothing like another 185 F bath to leach out oil.


Yes, blueing will not hold up like park or a good paint. It's a bit of a chore to maintain. For a firearm that's going to see a lot of use, blueing is not a good long-term solution. However, for a restored firearm like a BGS with matching numbers, and may see limited use, blueing would be the cat's meow.

yes. Just like some early AKs. But these are for "collector" versus "operator".

Illurian00
April 07, 2011, 12:33
Over the years, I've become less enthused w/ traditional bluing. Many new processes have come on the scene that offer much better better protection. 'Better Living Through Chemistry'.

A couple years ago a fellow turned me on to this outfit : http://www.superiorbarrels.com/What%20is%20Hard%20Blue.htm

If the occasion arises, I'd do believe I'd try it.

Abominog
April 07, 2011, 13:32
The paint/ epoxy/ park discussions have been well covered in the past, particularly Mark has put a lot of time into detailed discussions.

I think what it comes down to is if you have a nice matching BGS to restore, and want it to look like a BGS, then hot blue is the way to go. If you don't care, or are going to use it a bit, then do something else.

RG Coburn
April 07, 2011, 13:47
Ever think of using cerokote in blue titanium?

http://ebmhost13.estylez.net/IW_Products.m4p.pvx?;MULTI_ITEM_SUBMIT

The more I look at that stuff,the more tempted I am to use it next time.

RG Coburn
April 07, 2011, 13:49
Crap..the link won't direct you there. Go to their site,look thru the color selection file.

Illurian00
April 07, 2011, 16:45
Always interested in something that will enhance longevity :

http://www.libertycoatings.com/index.php/Static/

and titanium blue

hydrotx
April 07, 2011, 17:29
I've used the GK "blue" on the slide of a keltec 32 when I was just screwing around with the airgun setup. I liked the color rather well. I'll see if I can find an photo of the pistol.