Obama won't salute?

[RG Coburn]

http://newswithviews.com/Lloyd/rees110.htm

So now he refuses to give a simple salute to a Medal of Honor EARNER?
But he bows before two-bit dictators?
Like Tom Brokaw said.."who is Obama?"

[renaissance_warrior]

Why he's the president of the world, haven't you figured that out yet? :tongue:

What an insane meglomaniac that wimp is. He really is mentally ill.

[357ross]

Why should he salute? This event is about honor, which is a foreign concept to Obummer.

[cowbilly]

What is sad is that he is most likely advised on proper protocal which made it a deliberate act or just plain uninterested forgetfulness.

As the other posts suggest, this is to be expected from this type of leader.

[alant]

Saluting a medal of honor (recipient) is a tradition not found in regulation. Don't believe me? Check AR 600-25 - Salutes, Honors, and Visits of Courtesy.
http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_25.pdf

From the internet, various places:
Google "By tradition, superior officers, up to the President"
By tradition, superior officers, up to the President (starting with Ronald Reagan), salute the Medal of Honor although, technically, the salute is to the medal, not to the soldier himself. This is a matter of tradition, not regulation. The soldier is still required to salute the superior officer and the senior attempts to salute simultaneously rather than "returning" the soldier's salute.

[ftierson]

Originally posted by alant
Saluting a medal of honor (recipient) is a tradition not found in regulation. Don't believe me? Check AR 600-25 - Salutes, Honors, and Visits of Courtesy.
http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_25.pdf

From the internet, various places:
Google "By tradition, superior officers, up to the President"
By tradition, superior officers, up to the President (starting with Ronald Reagan), salute the Medal of Honor although, technically, the salute is to the medal, not to the soldier himself. This is a matter of tradition, not regulation. The soldier is still required to salute the superior officer and the senior attempts to salute simultaneously rather than "returning" the soldier's salute.

And your point is...?

Forrest

[chet]

I believe the article stated it was a tradition although he may have overextended himself by stating this was the first president not to do so.

Moot point. The tradition is well established now and is probably one of the most widely known points of MOH customs and courtesy. It's also well known that Obama had to get schooled last year on saluting as his version was worse than Major Fambrough in Dances With Wolves and his exits from Marine 1 were mortifying even to his handlersl. Bottom line.....he should have made the effort because he did know better.

It wouldn't have mattered. I watched the ceremony. Obama looked and sounded like a9th grader giving an oral book report on The House of Seven Gables when he read the citation. I've seen headstones display more emotion than he did. Everything about him screamed "I don't know what I am talking about and I do not want to be here." Everything about Obama just oozes "not right". It was weird to see him eyeballing people during the prayer. It was weird to hear him stumble through unit designations and ranks. It was was weird to see his mechanical movements and obvious lack of warmth with the SSG.

The guy is not just uncomfortable with military protocol, he is uncomfortable (or more aptly discomforted) by Americana in general.

[Bama Steve]

Even a MOH recipient can't get no respect now-a-day's . . .

[TideWater 41009]

Now that I think about it, I guess Jimmy Carter wasn't all that bad...

[John Culver]

Originally posted by ftierson


And your point is...?

Forrest

His point is that he agrees with Obama's lack of respect

[RG Coburn]

Originally posted by alant
Saluting a medal of honor (recipient) is a tradition not found in regulation. Don't believe me? Check AR 600-25 - Salutes, Honors, and Visits of Courtesy.
http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_25.pdf

From the internet, various places:
Google "By tradition, superior officers, up to the President"
By tradition, superior officers, up to the President (starting with Ronald Reagan), salute the Medal of Honor although, technically, the salute is to the medal, not to the soldier himself. This is a matter of tradition, not regulation. The soldier is still required to salute the superior officer and the senior attempts to salute simultaneously rather than "returning" the soldier's salute.
Christsakes,neither is buying them a friggin' cup of coffee,but you gonna let one go thirsty?
First live one since Nam'.All the rest since Nam' have paid with their lives.
I reckon' that ain't worth a salute either?

[alant]

People go off at the least provocation, or with no provication, with few facts to back up their anger.

We're talking about a "tradition" that the President salutes MoH that started in what, 1983? As they go that's not a long standing tradition.

The tradition still requires the lower ranking person initiate the salute. Did that happen?

It was pointed out no live recipient has received an award since Vietnam, so there's NO tradition of POTUS saluting during the presentation.

The presentation was indoors. What's the protocol for saluting indoors?
AR 600-25 paragraph1-3 says "Personnel will not salute indoors except when reporting to a superior officer."

A White House ceremony would normally be rehearsed, right? My guess, and it's only a guess, is that there was no salute during the rehearsal. Perhaps a military aid that participated would know the details, perhaps not.


I've got no problem saluting a MoH recipient regardless of rank (or buying them a cup of coffee). But proper salutes have a proper time and place.

[Brett]

There could be a good paying full time government job in making excuses for obama.

[RG Coburn]

Originally posted by Brett
There could be a good paying full time government job in making excuses for obama.
no shit...
Full time position,I hear.
Kinda reminds me of that Eddie Murphy movie "Coming to America",where he stands up off the can, claps his hands and shouts,"Wipers!!"

[The Pigpen]

Originally posted by Brett
There could be a good paying full time government job in making excuses for obama.

There are a few turds around here perfect for that job.

[chet]

Originally posted by alant
People go off at the least provocation, or with no provication, with few facts to back up their anger.


I'm not angry, I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed with the president's demeanor overall.

And while we are on it, I am disappointed that the PTB are incapable of awarding more MOHs in 7 years of combat. There are other guys out there who have performed at this level. They will never be recognized because the same awards people who think a bronze star is a suitable award for for a PCS are the same one who think being dead is a prerequisite for the MOH.

Is it not ironic that Bill Clinton has awarded more MOH's than Bush and Obama combined?

Valor did not leave the field in 1945. I wish the PTB would wake up to that. Too bad an MOH ceremony is not prime time TV but a passing blurb on the news channels.

[shlomo]

I would think he oughta be thrilled to get a hug from the Novelty President.

Two firsts and a MOH ain't bad for one day.

[101ABN327]

Originally posted by alant
The tradition still requires the lower ranking person initiate the salute. Did that happen?

It was pointed out no live recipient has received an award since Vietnam, so there's NO tradition of POTUS saluting during the presentation.


Not in the case of the MOH, dipshit! So your excuse for Chimpy's ignorance of protocol is that this is the first award to a living recipient? That's damned weak, even for you!

Come on Gaylant! What are you reading, some kind of Maine National Guard regulation?

[chet]

Originally posted by alant


The presentation was indoors. What's the protocol for saluting indoors?
AR 600-25 paragraph1-3 says "Personnel will not salute indoors except when reporting to a superior officer."


Didn't get a chance to review AR's before the ceremony I guess and went with tradition instead:
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Never thought I would be holding Clinton up as a model of CIC behavior but stranger things have happened.

The "first living recipient" mantra should be fixed. That is utterly wrong. SSG Giunta was the first living recipient to be awarded an MOH while the conflict in which he served was still ongoing......since Vietnam. That's AFAIK. And again, it shows how jacked up the awards system is.


BTW, if you would like to see the combat conditions under which SSG Giunta served, watch "Restrepo" on NGC. The show covers his units deployment.

[cowbilly]

Being both enlisted and an officer, I was told/trained to salute the MOH and its bearer (granted, I've never had to do it). Any Vet will tell you that FMs, ARs, DA PAMs and TMs do not cover everything (like saluting indoors outside of reporting as a courtesy, with or without cover or saluting in civilian attire).

It boils down to honor and respect.

[Douglas S Graham]

Alant gets to be more like Bill the Dumb Ass every day. Defends the bummer constantly, even when he's wrong. You CAN criticize the bum now and then.
Or , you ARE a died in the wool Democrat, are you???:rolleyes:

[Seaweed]

Alant, you cannot regulate respect, you cannot regulate honor, and you cannot regulate common sense.

[L Haney]

Seaweed, well said. Some don't get it and never will.

[FAL freek]

Not to take away from his accomplishment of receiving the MOH but do wonder if this award might just be a ploy to raise his sagging popularity with the armed forces. I do hope I'm wrong tho.
Originally posted by chet
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Never thought I would be holding Clinton up as a model of CIC behavior but stranger things have happened.

It was widely rumored that Randy Shugarts (MOH Somalia) father looked at Slick Willie during the ceremony for his son and told him, "You're not fit to be Commander in Chief".

Originally posted by alant

I've got no problem saluting a MoH recipient regardless of rank (or buying them a cup of coffee). But proper salutes have a proper time and place.

Hey alant, it's also unwritten military protocol for even the highest ranking officers to salute MOH recipiants.

[V guy]

It is a simple matter of socialization or lack of it.

After all, he thought that the "Corps" was the Corpse.

He simply has never tried to salute and cannot do it.

Admit it, it took you a while to get the hang of it in the beginning, likely in front of a mirror. I know I did.

He obviously has never saluted anyone, except with his middle finger, and he does not have a clue on how to do it.

[ratas calientes]

Saluting is the correct thing to do. Obama has no excuse.

[AndyC]

The man has no class whatsoever.

[FAL freek]

Originally posted by AndyC
The man has no class whatsoever. Unfortunately it took the easily swayed American masses two years too late to realize this. :sad:

[RG Coburn]

I may have been mistaken. Is a raised arm,clenched fist a salute?

[L Haney]

The hand salute is an odd little thing. I've seen it done poorly, at the wrong times, and by the wrong people. Seen it flapped about unthinkingly because we were trained that way. I've also seen it rendered in situations where it was the most apt, the most heart wrenching acknowledgment of another service brother. Far as this instance goes, doesn't bother me at all that Barry didn't. Shouldn't take much thought to understand why.