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alant
November 23, 2010, 05:39
NKorea threatens continued strikes on South

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/23/AR2010112300880.html?hpid=topnews
SEOUL, South Korea (AP) - North Korea bombarded a South Korean island near their disputed western border with artillery Tuesday, setting buildings ablaze and killing at least one marine after warning the South to halt military drills in the area, South Korean officials said.

South Korea said it returned fire and scrambled fighter jets in response, and said the "inhumane" attack on civilian areas violated the 1953 armistice halting the Korean War. The two sides technically remain at war because a peace treaty was never negotiated.

Thorack
November 23, 2010, 06:08
Well,

The South said they don't want to escalate and they know we don't have the troops to back them up, not that they need us. I see the North continuing these little attacks until we are out of the Middle East or China tells them to pipe down. In the mean time the South Korean peace movement will have to suck it down.

Thorack

ftierson
November 23, 2010, 11:29
Time for the RoK to screw together some of those 'special' parts...

Forrest

martin35
November 23, 2010, 11:44
US resolve is on-board the USS Pueblo anchored in Pyongyang Harbor where it is viewed for a fee.
I would suggest that ship be obliterated as a response, it's still on our naval ships registry so it must still belong to us.
N. Korea has raised do we call or fold and give them another pot?
Here's Obama's siminal event that can define his greatness.
We still have the 1940's treaty of assistance if attacked with S. Korea

bykerhd
November 23, 2010, 12:10
I think the North is testing their assessment of Obummer's "resolve".:rolleyes:
After watching the last couple year's "Apology" tours and the spectacle of our "President" kissing up to every "wronged" Third World strong man, except Kim, I would bet the North Korean's conclusion is that Hillary is the only member of the Administration with any balls.

Once Hillary resigns her post to run against Obummer, the North Koreans will be free to "Liberate" the South. Obummer will not do anything substantial to stop them. He is all talk and no substance.

V guy
November 23, 2010, 12:27
I agree that Obamas simian event is here.

It is time for S Korea to fight N Korea.

lpo
November 23, 2010, 13:02
Military Projections Show The Devastating Capabilities Of North Korean Artillery

http://www.businessinsider.com/north-korea-artillery-could-level-seoul-2011-11#north-korea-has-the-worlds-largest-artillery-force-1

The source for the above states: "Caveat: Amateur web based research. All drawings by me unless otherwise stated. Iím not an expert and this is not authoritative or exhaustive, but hopefully you find it interesting. "

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?162240-Bluffer-s-Guide-North-Korea-strikes!-%282009%29

cpd109
November 23, 2010, 13:10
Originally posted by martin35
Here Obama's siminal event that can define his greatness or more to the point 'great defects'.


Fixed it for you Martin. You didn't have all the (most liklely) bases covered. If this comes to a shooting war we get involved in, what do you want to bet that Barry will try to run the war from the WH? With him calling the shots.

RG Coburn
November 23, 2010, 13:18
Hmm...last week,a mystery "missile" off california,this week,north korea bombards the south...

Yeah..you might say "testing"...

L Haney
November 23, 2010, 14:08
I heard we condemned the action by the North. They better watch their ass, or we just might strongly condemn their actions. Or something. :rolleyes:

D P Six
November 23, 2010, 14:13
I would appear that at some point North and South Korea are going to go at each other for the purpose of thinning the herd. I question the wisdom of having 25000 plus US tropps there when that happens, unless of course we are enthusiastic about participating in a Korean War Redux. I suppose troops in the now quiet Iraq could be rotated there for a combat TDY if extra bodies are needed. Time will tell.

motosapien
November 23, 2010, 14:33
North Korea does everything off a script they get from the chicoms. The chicoms see a leaderless United States and an opportunity to test their increase in latitude since Obama took office. They will not let this situation pass without exploiting it.

Thorack
November 23, 2010, 14:58
Guys,

I sit next to one of the 8th Army Planners (All Army Forces in Korea) his statements are the South Koreans will not attack unless it a mass invasion. Quite simply the South Koreans dont want to deal with the refugees and issues of a 20 million person collapsed country and ensuing humanitarian crisis.

Unless the North Koreans invade we are all going to be putting up with the crap for a while.

Thorack

martin35
November 23, 2010, 15:24
If it heats up to a war footing the draft will be needed,, the US and China won't be able to hide behind surrogates for long, North or South could be made materially stronger by us or the Chinese and when one or the other started to prevail the jig would be up for both countries, losing is not a option as I see it.
PS we will need to reopen the school for assassins again,,, and call it boot camp.

D P Six
November 23, 2010, 15:48
Originally posted by martin35
If it heats up to a war footing the draft will be needed Yes, behold the draft cometh. The draft never went away, it's just been in hibernation. Bring it back and suddenly Americans may actually start to ponder the merits of those pesky foreign entanglements on the far side of the globe.

martin35
November 23, 2010, 16:19
We have one advantage we can blow away our farms mortgage holder while he must show restraint or write off his investment and milk his own cow.

bykerhd
November 23, 2010, 16:27
from martin35We have one advantage we can blow away our farms mortgage holder while he must show restraint or write off his investment and milk his own cow.

While I agree that we COULD, probably, blow away the holder of our "paper" I sincerely doubt that the CIC, does that mean "Chicken-In-Charge" ?:uhoh: , would EVER exercise that option. And, I believe our potential enemies have all pretty much reached the same conclusion.:rolleyes:

chet
November 23, 2010, 16:50
Asked and answered in the GNFD thread.

Thorack is right. The subtext headline is "North Korea prepares for another hard winter by posturing like a banty rooster. Food and cash from a reticent West expectedly shortly. Meanwhile on the DMZ, ROK forces feverishly starch and spit shine everything one more time."

chet
November 23, 2010, 16:57
BTW, for the guys that want to play Forgotten War II, what do we win if we deliver the royal smack down to Kim and short boy posse? Oh, that's right, nothing.

martin35
November 23, 2010, 19:28
Kim is on final approach and wants his son to be the next supreme leader and that leads to some unrest among the other top NK's who want to keep or increase their personal power in the vipers nest,,,Korean unification is the dream of every Korean, North and South and is a excellent tool to foment national fervor and mouth foaming tail biting and all the time playing the USA like a banjo, which tantrum did we not reward? The 1953 Armistice was seen as a Communist victory in the Far East as substantial as our de-funding of our corrupt South VN Allies, Ike said he would get us out of the "Korean police action" and he did, he had a timetable,, we like timetables apparently.

Firestarter
November 23, 2010, 19:49
Here are my thoughts. I think that the Chinese are going to wait and also silently encourage North Korean aggression.

A conflict in the region can distract from the inevitable invasion of Tawian, which with Obama in office is China's best shot at reclaiming what they think is theirs.

Wait and watch.

RG Coburn
November 23, 2010, 21:34
Yeah,Taiwan...
What better time to "snatch the pebble" from our hand.

Firestarter
November 23, 2010, 22:19
Iran could be a closely silent player in this also. Their centrifuges recently went quiet. Why? Why not? Better to shut them down and decommision the target to minimize exposure in case of a counter attack by Israel. Notice I said counter attack.

N. Korea had a couple (unknown) thousand centrifuges cascading which recently came to light. They showed them off proudly and then soon attacked disputed territory claimed by S. Korea.

Iran may probably already have the bomb. We continue to underestimate our enemy. There is no reason for them to declare themselves a nuclear armed state if their intent was one of offense rather than deterrence.

We are spread too thin and the enemy knows it. China has not forgotten about Japan either. Europes economy is corroding and China owns us economically already.

I pray that we are not getting ready to see some very serious coreographed moves against the West. While we are groping our citizens like ignorant barbarians our enemies are arming up rapidly. They soon won't need the garden variety terrorist.

FAL freek
November 24, 2010, 00:56
So IF the South decided to liberate the North from their corrupt dictator and the mass exodus of refugees seeking asylum from the North did actually take place, would there even be enough folks left in the North to have a standing army? And consequently would the mass influx of refugees be enough to overwhelm and collapse the South Korean government?

alant
November 24, 2010, 05:55
Originally posted by martin35
If it heats up to a war footing the draft will be needed,, the US and China won't be able to hide behind surrogates for long, North or South could be made materially stronger by us or the Chinese and when one or the other started to prevail the jig would be up for both countries, losing is not a option as I see it.
PS we will need to reopen the school for assassins again,,, and call it boot camp.
Um yeah, let's start a war between the Koreas with the intent of going at it with China before things are over. A war the South Koreans aren't particularly interested in. Do you think Japan is up for it?

This would be good because someone on the internet said so.

So Martin, should we disengage from Iraq and Afghanistan first? Reinstitute the draft? Mobilize all our reserve troops "for the duration"?

Anyone else we should go after at the same time? Iran? Chavez? Pakistan? Russia?

WarriorPoet
November 24, 2010, 19:56
Firestarter,

I've been saying that for years.....and you are right.

NK is just a tool of the chicoms.

The chicom navy is growing at an exponential rate.

When the chicoms are ready to take Taiwan, NK will bombard SK and march in.

It'll be a two front battlefield which the west will be unable to contend with. Militarily, maybe....though the nuke card will hang heavily over us. Politically? Well, considering the Nancy's we have for politicians - no way. Politicians think of their job security first and foremost.

Plus - China owns most of our debt. The "debt-bomb" will be held over our heads as chicom assault rifles crackle in every major Taiwanese city.

It'll happen in our lifetimes - and if not, I'll be mightily surprised (and relieved).

-WP

cpd109
November 24, 2010, 20:20
Originally posted by motosapien
North Korea does everything off a script they get from the chicoms. The chicoms see a leaderless United States and an opportunity to test their increase in latitude since Obama took office. They will not let this situation pass without exploiting it.

This also goes for the missile launch- another wrench in the works for poor Barry. And no further comment on the launch from what I have seen. By anyone, even a blogger.

alant
November 24, 2010, 20:51
This is old school for North Korea, they've been getting away with murder for decades. In the case below the US military had been tied down for years with the Vietnam War and the American public was not up for what might happen if the President punished North Korea with air strikes.

http://steeljawscribe.com/2010/04/15/5071
15 April 1969 (Korean time) marked the final flight of a Navy VQ-1 EC-121/WV-2 callsign Deep Sea 129. Roughly 100 nm off the North Korean peninsular site where the Hermit Kingdom today defies the world with its ballistic missile tests, lies the watery grave of 31 Americans (2 bodies were later recovered):

North Korea not only acknowledged the shoot down, they loudly and boastfully celebrated their action. President Nixon suspended PARPRO flights in the Sea of Japan for three days and then allowed them to resume, only with escorts. No reparations were ever paid to the US or the families of the lost airmen.
And Kim Il-Sung celebrated another birthday (April 15th).

http://steeljawscribe.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/4Jan05.bmp

Story
November 25, 2010, 14:21
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703572404575635490041614532.html?m od=googlenews_wsj

On Thursday, Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei offered a relatively mild response to a U.S. announcement on Wednesday that the aircraft carrier USS George Washington would conduct exercises with the South Korean navy in the Yellow Sea just off the Chinese coast. "We have taken note of the related reports, and express concern on this matter," he said.

shlomo
November 25, 2010, 16:15
Originally posted by alant
NKorea threatens continued strikes on South



They can have Mississippi and Alabama.

Don't mess with Texas, though.

Just sayin'.

StarPD
December 02, 2010, 14:51
It is reported that while NK has a larger army and well emplaced artillery, ROK has a 600,000 man army consisting of crack troops, all highly trained, well disciplined and equipped with the latest weaponry. NK has old and poorly maintained equipment, with a starving army and little training. NK literally can't afford the ammuniton required to adequately train their military, including enough fuel to allow the training required to keep their air forces sharp. Experts claim that the ROK can and would wreak havoc on the NK Army relatively quickly, absent another intervention by the Chicoms. China has already indicated that this time they will NOT intervene if NK starts a war.

American troops plan to sit out any war between the two Koreas and not participate unless and only to the extent that they are targeted by NK as a purely defensive measure. Odds are that they will pull back to defensive positions and let the ROK take care of NK.

Personally, I think the only reason ROK has not responded militarily to NK attacks is what has been mentioned here about accepting and feeding the masses of NK refugees that would flood South in the event of a major war. I further think that if NK continues its belligerence and open attacks, eventually ROK will tire of being a target for a starving NK military and when they do respond, it will be with massive and well-coordinated multiple attacks on NK C3 as well as major NK military compounds. China will sit it out, not wanting to fight its biggest trading partner, the US, with which it holds too much of our debt to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Despite our involvement in the middle East, we would be obligated to come to the aid of ROK if the Chicoms intervene, and China knows it. While they will spout their usual threats and accusations, they know which side their bread is buttered on. Things are much different now between China and the US than when the first Korean War occurred.

Wait and watch.

ftierson
December 02, 2010, 15:48
Originally posted by StarPD
Personally, I think the only reason ROK has not responded militarily to NK attacks is what has been mentioned here about accepting and feeding the masses of NK refugees that would flood South in the event of a major war. I further think that if NK continues its belligerence and open attacks, eventually ROK will tire of being a target for a starving NK military and when they do respond, it will be with massive and well-coordinated multiple attacks on NK C3 as well as major NK military compounds.


'Waiting it out' on the part of the RoK runs the risk of Seoul sitting at the bottom of a mushroom cloud.

Bet that'd put an even bigger dent in the RoK economy...

Forrest

John Culver
December 02, 2010, 15:56
Originally posted by alant
This is old school for North Korea, they've been getting away with murder for decades. In the case below the US military had been tied down for years with the Vietnam War and the American public was not up for what might happen if the President punished North Korea with air strikes.

http://steeljawscribe.com/2010/04/15/5071
15 April 1969 (Korean time) marked the final flight of a Navy VQ-1 EC-121/WV-2 callsign Deep Sea 129. Roughly 100 nm off the North Korean peninsular site where the Hermit Kingdom today defies the world with its ballistic missile tests, lies the watery grave of 31 Americans (2 bodies were later recovered):

North Korea not only acknowledged the shoot down, they loudly and boastfully celebrated their action. President Nixon suspended PARPRO flights in the Sea of Japan for three days and then allowed them to resume, only with escorts. No reparations were ever paid to the US or the families of the lost airmen.
And Kim Il-Sung celebrated another birthday (April 15th).

http://steeljawscribe.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/4Jan05.bmp

Dont forget the Pueblo incident (thank you Walker)

alant
December 02, 2010, 17:07
N Korea doesn't yet have a deliverable nuclear weapon, only science experiments. They have to be able to deliver a reliable weapon, not something that takes up the size of a flatbed truck and requires weeks of tinkering by a busload of scientists to set off. Making a nuke small enough to put in a balistic missile is a long way off, but building something reliable that they could smuggle into ROK might be a few years away. But how can they be sure of smuggling a nuke into ROK? Getting caught trying would surely result in a full blown war. Setting off a nuke in downtown Seoul would most likely result in several coming back at them.

Their real "nuclear option" is long range arty and rockets targeting Seoul, of which they have plenty.

As for the US "sitting out" a Korean war - that's unlikely in the extreme. At a minimum the USAF and USN would be heavily involved, along with US troops stationed in ROK.

Topbanana
December 02, 2010, 17:26
I really get a kick out of all the people that think that Iran, North Korea, and even China are real threats to our nation.

Study geopolitics and get back to us.

Firestarter
December 02, 2010, 19:14
Originally posted by Topbanana
IStudy geopolitics and get back to us.

Some like yourself said the same about the Nazi party and Emperial Japan once upon a time. :wink:

Sat on our ass until attacked.

Topbanana
December 02, 2010, 19:25
North Korea and Iran have forces as strong as that of Nazi Germany or Japan in the 1930's respectively?

Put the crackpipe down.

China has no actual interest to start a world war.

alant
December 02, 2010, 19:26
Originally posted by Topbanana
I really get a kick out of all the people that think that Iran, North Korea, and even China are real threats to our nation.

Study geopolitics and get back to us.
Depends on what you call a "threat to our nation". Iran and Korea, not a chance. They can cause trouble, but that's about it. China can cause major problems, but has its own weaknesses. Could they take over the US - a plausible scenario within the next 50-75 years is difficult to construct.

Over reaction is the largest threat, and we've been over reacting big-time. We need to sort out our politics and our economy. Geopolitically the US has a position every other nation envies.

Topbanana
December 02, 2010, 19:37
Originally posted by alant

Depends on what you call a "threat to our nation". Iran and Korea, not a chance. They can cause trouble, but that's about it. China can cause major problems, but has its own weaknesses. Could they take over the US - a plausible scenario within the next 50-75 years is difficult to construct.

Over reaction is the largest threat, and we've been over reacting big-time. We need to sort out our politics and our economy. Geopolitically the US has a position every other nation envies.

This I basically agree with. But China's problems are from within, they historically have been a divided nation. The disparity between the poor inner country compared to the vastly richer Eastern shore gets worse and worst. Calling in US debt will destroy their nation and is completely against their interest.

P.S. even though they are working on a better navy... They still have NO real navy. The US owns the ocean and no nation can ever hope to take that on.

Firestarter
December 02, 2010, 20:19
Originally posted by Topbanana
North Korea and Iran have forces as strong as that of Nazi Germany or Japan in the 1930's respectively?

Put the crackpipe down.

China has no actual interest to start a world war.

You know I haven't been offensive to you yet, but I don't mind starting.

No, North Korea and Iran do not have forces as strong as that of Nazi Germany or Japan in the 1930's.

Each are working on an equalizer though. :wink:

Oh P.S. simple regional conflicts can be enough to trigger a world war.

If you want to have an intelligent discussion and friendly debate please continue. If you want to continue to troll then maybe you weren't banned long enough.

Firestarter
December 02, 2010, 20:21
Originally posted by Topbanana


P.S. even though they are working on a better navy... They still have NO real navy. The US owns the ocean and no nation can ever hope to take that on.

P.S. Pearl Harbor.

82ndRecon
December 02, 2010, 20:27
I think the North Korean's can smell weakness are pushing to find out just how right they are.

Guess we'll all see before to long.

Nick H.
December 02, 2010, 20:45
I don't think China is interested in attacking the USA directly, but they would like the world policeman (the USA) to be crippled, distracted or disabled enough that we would leave them alone while they take Africa and utilize the continents natural resources.

Seems like arranging for a few nukes to fall into the hands of Al Queda operatives in the US couldn't hurt in regards to this goal. If Al Queda were led to believe the nukes came from Iran, China could sit back and enjoy the show.

alant
December 02, 2010, 21:52
Originally posted by Topbanana
This I basically agree with. But China's problems are from within, they historically have been a divided nation. The disparity between the poor inner country compared to the vastly richer Eastern shore gets worse and worst. Calling in US debt will destroy their nation and is completely against their interest.

P.S. even though they are working on a better navy... They still have NO real navy. The US owns the ocean and no nation can ever hope to take that on. Are you a StratFor subscriber? This lines up with their analysis.

There is no other place for China to take the money they earn, they're wedded to the US dollar, at least for the near term.

"Ever" is a long time.

ThunderGod
December 03, 2010, 10:24
Topbanana, one man with a .32 auto can start a World War. His name was Gavrilo Princip.