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wyatt earp
November 20, 2010, 17:28
Viva Democracy!! Your tax dollars at work.

Video here: School of the Americas (http://rt.com/usa/news/usa-military-school-americas/)

Imagine a school dedicated to teaching torture, to educating soldiers on how to rape and murder American nuns and assassinate Salvadoran priests; an institution whose mission is to demonstrate how to ‘disappear’ innocent civilians with total impunity.

Now imagine it’s funded with American taxpayer dollars and that it’s located on American soil. But you don’t have to imagine, because for the past 62 years, the School of the Americas has done exactly that.

From Pinochet's soldiers in Chile, D'Aubuisson's death squads in El Salvador, Banzer's minions in Bolivia, Galtieri's operatives in Argentina and Rios Montt's soldiers in Guatemala to the present-day generals responsible for the coup in Honduras and the drug war killings in Colombia, the School of the Americas has a dark legacy. Renamed the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation, the school has graduated 65,000 soldiers from 18 countries.

Founded to fight communism in the Western Hemisphere, it quickly became known as the School of the Assassins. But for the past 20 years, Jesuit priest Roy Bourgeois has watched over its gates and held its graduates accountable for their crimes. The School of the Americas Watch (SOA Watch) began with just 10 activists in a small apartment across the street from Ft. Benning in the US State of Georgia.

http://www.antifascistencyclopedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/politicaymedios-hond27.jpg

cavegeo
November 20, 2010, 17:51
Old news here and not exactly as reported. We don't teach torture though soldiers from this school may have done such things once back home.

L Haney
November 20, 2010, 18:18
wyatt, you may kiss my rebel dick. You know not of what you speak, the only excuse I can afford you is that you have swallowed some load of bullshit from the far left. The people teaching at this school are my AMERICAN brothers in arms, dedicated, proud professionals in the art of WAR. As americans propagate that exercise, under the very close and specific direction of our elected. Even at the cost of our soldiers suffering under artificial "ROE" that kills many more of them in some Pollyanna view of armed conflict. What a load of the most vile propaganda you have swallowed. Got a lump in your throat? Guess what clueless? With knowledge comes the potential for abuse. This school teaches techniques for a legitimate military under civilian control to accomplish a given mission. Just like our military does. If you think this school teaches dirty lessons, I can hook you up with some African protocols being taught that may change your narrow, bullshit, myopic view of this program.

Hell, I got more, this has me fuming. If I teach you to make a camp fire, did I teach you to burn down a sleeping village? No. If I teach you to deny access to logistics to an enemy force, have I taught you to starve innocent people? No. If I teach you how to run effective area denial patrols, have I taught you to round up campesinos for brutal interrogation? No. But all this and much more is laid to blame on the instructors at this school. The bare naked fact, if you troubled your lazy ass to find out is that we try very hard to impart the values of our society and our way of armed conflict on the students at this school. Problem is, THEIR POLITICIANS DON'T ATTEND THE SCHOOL!

Bama Steve
November 20, 2010, 19:02
When I travel abroad I take a camera and extra flash-bulbs.

I learned how and when to use them as a result of a self-sought education and use them appropriately for everyone's benefit and enjoyment.

I *could* use them for nefarious and greedy acts but I choose not to of my own volition.

Knowledge is what it is regardless of how you came to acquire it - how you use it is what ultimately defines you.

SWOHFAL
November 20, 2010, 19:04
When do the militaries of turd world countries not know how to rape, loot, torture and murder? They could teach our troops about the use of terror.

JasonB
November 20, 2010, 19:05
Originally posted by L Haney
wyatt, you may kiss my rebel dick. You know not of what you speak, the only excuse I can afford you is that you have swallowed some load of bullshit from the far left. The people teaching at this school are my AMERICAN brothers in arms, dedicated, proud professionals in the art of WAR. As americans propagate that exercise, under the very close and specific direction of our elected. Even at the cost of our soldiers suffering under artificial "ROE" that kills many more of them in some Pollyanna view of armed conflict. What a load of the most vile propaganda you have swallowed. Got a lump in your throat? Guess what clueless? With knowledge comes the potential for abuse. This school teaches techniques for a legitimate military under civilian control to accomplish a given mission. Just like our military does. If you think this school teaches dirty lessons, I can hook you up with some African protocols being taught that may change your narrow, bullshit, myopic view of this program.

Hell, I got more, this has me fuming. If I teach you to make a camp fire, did I teach you to burn down a sleeping village? No. If I teach you to deny access to logistics to an enemy force, have I taught you to starve innocent people? No. If I teach you how to run effective area denial patrols, have I taught you to round up campesinos for brutal interrogation? No. But all this and much more is laid to blame on the instructors at this school. The bare naked fact, if you troubled your lazy ass to find out is that we try very hard to impart the values of our society and our way of armed conflict on the students at this school. Problem is, THEIR POLITICIANS DON'T ATTEND THE SCHOOL!

That is about the most fucked up face saving attempt I have ever seen. Did we not know before hand the people that were trained there work for thugs?

L Haney
November 20, 2010, 19:43
Hey Jason, I don't see your spew but somebody emailed me your response to my post. Phuck you. Who teaches at these schools? Who approves the student list? Who approves ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY FROM FOREIGN COUNTRIES TO BE ON OUR SOIL? Got answers for any of these, moron? You pathetic pile of shit, I hope you went to private school and we didn't waste public funds on your useless education. What a phuckin' maroon you are to even offer an opinion on something you obviously KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. You should apply to MSNBC as a propect for evening anchor as you have demonstrated a complete vacuity of knowledge of jackshit. I hope that paper hat don't squeeze your hydrocephalic head as you hand the fries out the drive thru window.

JasonB
November 20, 2010, 19:49
Originally posted by L Haney
Hey Jason, I don't see your spew but somebody emailed me your response to my post. Phuck you. Who teaches at these schools? Who approves the student list? Who approves ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY FROM FOREIGN COUNTRIES TO BE ON OUR SOIL? Got answers for any of these, moron? You pathetic pile of shit, I hope you went to private school and we didn't waste public funds on your useless education. What a phuckin' maroon you are to even offer an opinion on something you obviously KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. You should apply to MSNBC as a propect for evening anchor as you have demonstrated a complete vacuity of knowledge of jackshit. I hope that paper hat don't squeeze your hydrocephalic head as you hand the fries out the drive thru window.

What difference does it make as to who approves the student list? My problem is paying for this crap since I am opposed to foreign welfare in any form. That we prop up thugs just adds to my dislike for it.

Raspeguy
November 20, 2010, 20:02
Originally posted by L Haney
As americans propagate that exercise, under the very close and specific direction of our elected
Isn't it amazing that you will recognize along with Bama_Steve that most everything about our "elected" is fused with corruption and decisions contrary to the good of the AMERICAN people. Yet, when it comes to anything involving military policy or action, such as wars for the profit of the numerically few, these elected then sit right up there with the angels above! They, however, are not lacking in foreknowledge regarding the behavior and actions of these thuggish governments for which they provide training for their troops. It would be like training Capone's henchmen the fine art of sniping and vacuusly supposing (excluding the public consumption b/s) that it would only be used as a tool for justice. But in effect, we train them to enhance their governments capabilites is exchange for ????????? that again will benefit the well heeled here.

As it used to be, if you were born poor is SA or CA, you were classed in that standing for life regardless of your innate potential. An Einstein born to a potato picker, remains the same. If you were a silver spoon descendent you were the continuation of the upper, ruling, or managerial class. This class suppression is one aspect these thug governments use their military for. For the underclass, there is no recourse for hope of betterment except to usually revert to a leftist course or remain in the dirt for life.

Maybe one day a similar minded military or private army will be coming to a town near you.

Bama Steve
November 20, 2010, 20:13
Originally posted by Raspeguy

Isn't it amazing that you will recognize along with Bama_Steve that most everything about our "elected" is fused with corruption and decisions contrary to the good of the AMERICAN people. Yet, when it comes to anything involving military policy or action, such as wars for the profit of the numerically few, these elected then sit right up there with the angels above! They, however, are not lacking in foreknowledge regarding the behavior and actions of these thuggish governments for which they provide training for their troops. It would be like training Capone's henchmen the fine art of sniping and vacuusly supposing (excluding the public consumption b/s) that it would only be used as a tool for justice. But in effect, we train them to enhance their governments capabilites is exchange for ????????? that again will benefit the well heeled here.

As it used to be, if you were born poor is SA or CA, you were classed in that standing for life regardless of your innate potential. An Einstein born to a potato picker, remains the same. If you were a silver spoon descendent you were the continuation of the upper, ruling, or managerial class. This class suppression is one aspect these thug governments use their military for. For the underclass, there is no recourse for hope of betterment except to usually revert to a leftist course or remain in the dirt for life.

Maybe one day a similar minded military or private army will be coming to a town near you.


HUGE can-of-worms you just opened, Sir.

Fun shall abound . . .

Where exactly would you like to start?

Enumerate for collective continuity, please . . .

:rofl:

JasonB
November 20, 2010, 20:25
Originally posted by Bama Steve



HUGE can-of-worms you just opened, Sir.

Fun shall abound . . .

Where exactly would you like to start?

Enumerate for collective continuity, please . . .

:rofl:

What did he say that was incorrect?

martin35
November 20, 2010, 20:30
Any school that teaches what is alleged would have been outed many years ago,,, just more BS,,,,for the small brained,,,, and not even good BS.

Bama Steve
November 20, 2010, 20:31
Originally posted by JasonB


What did he say that was incorrect?

Geeze, where did you conclude that we disagreed? Same shit, different thread . . .

I asked him to put his thoughts into a debatable and reference-able format and you once again thrust your hard-head into the midst and obscure the intent of my reply.

I guess I am just a homo according to you because I am neat and tidy with my thought processes, right?

(You done accused me and several others of that already - when ya' gonna stop-it?).


:rofl:

D P Six
November 20, 2010, 20:34
It would appear that our ability to manufacture militarism is one of the few products we have not offshored.

Stranger
November 20, 2010, 20:39
Originally posted by L Haney
wyatt, you may kiss my rebel dick. You know not of what you speak, the only excuse I can afford you is that you have swallowed some load of bullshit from the far left. The people teaching at this school are my AMERICAN brothers in arms, dedicated, proud professionals in the art of WAR. As americans propagate that exercise, under the very close and specific direction of our elected. Even at the cost of our soldiers suffering under artificial "ROE" that kills many more of them in some Pollyanna view of armed conflict. What a load of the most vile propaganda you have swallowed. Got a lump in your throat? Guess what clueless? With knowledge comes the potential for abuse. This school teaches techniques for a legitimate military under civilian control to accomplish a given mission. Just like our military does. If you think this school teaches dirty lessons, I can hook you up with some African protocols being taught that may change your narrow, bullshit, myopic view of this program.

Hell, I got more, this has me fuming. If I teach you to make a camp fire, did I teach you to burn down a sleeping village? No. If I teach you to deny access to logistics to an enemy force, have I taught you to starve innocent people? No. If I teach you how to run effective area denial patrols, have I taught you to round up campesinos for brutal interrogation? No. But all this and much more is laid to blame on the instructors at this school. The bare naked fact, if you troubled your lazy ass to find out is that we try very hard to impart the values of our society and our way of armed conflict on the students at this school. Problem is, THEIR POLITICIANS DON'T ATTEND THE SCHOOL!

Haney, your posts on this thread are pretty lame and you sound like a world class dick. No one claimed that the instructors are angels or demons. They have orders to teach students to the best of their abilities. The question is why are these excellent instructors teaching folks who go on to do terrible things in their countries.

Beyond the teaching military theory, the point of the school is to (hopefully) instill and indoctrinate the students with American values, or to at least develop a rapport with future military/political leaders. However, it often winds up that the students go back to their countries with only a healthy knowledge of how to kill and control their populations more efficiently. Is that really in our best interests? We are supposed to be "exporting" American ideals through the SOA. Last time I checked dictatorships were not on the list of ideal systems of governement.

You come in a say that SOA can do no wrong because the instructors are the best. That is plainly BS. You can do an incredible job teaching a sociopath how to kill efficiently, but is that really a noble goal?

Stranger
November 20, 2010, 20:45
Originally posted by Bama Steve

I asked him to put his thoughts into a debatable and reference-able format and you once again thrust your hard-head into the midst and obscure the intent of my reply.


No, you didn't say that at all. You didn't even post anything that a reasonable person might guess that is what you meant.

I suspect that you may be posting while toasting. Put down the bottle and come back when your head is on straight.

Bama Steve
November 20, 2010, 20:49
Originally posted by Stranger


No, you didn't say that at all. You didn't even post anything that a reasonable person might guess that is what you meant.

I suspect that you may be posting while toasting. Put down the bottle and come back when your head is on straight.

Go back and check my reply when you are sober, Sir.

I'll not engage you further this evening . . .

Best wishes.

:)

Heat
November 20, 2010, 20:57
Originally posted by martin35
Any school that teaches what is alleged would have been outed many years ago,,, just more BS,,,,for the small brained,,,, and not even good BS.
Ive seen two full length movies of the 'school of the Americas' at Ft Benning (used to be in Panama)--its name has changed..many thousands have gone there to protest for well over a decade now--so its not necessarily unknown--but to many brain dead americans that are more atuned to porno, football and snoop/paris/jersey shore and all the other trash on the media box its no wonder most dont have a clue--and besides we are all brain-washed to wave the flag and bellow 'Im proud to be an american' on que when ever ANYONE questions what out handlers are up to

Stranger
November 20, 2010, 21:00
Originally posted by Bama Steve


Go back and check my reply when you are sober, Sir.

I'll not engage you further this evening . . .

Best wishes.


Steve, here is your post.

Originally posted by Bama Steve



HUGE can-of-worms you just opened, Sir.

Fun shall abound . . .

Where exactly would you like to start?

Enumerate for collective continuity, please . . .

:rofl:

That is in no way of shape or form your later statement.

Originally posted by Bama Steve

I asked him to put his thoughts into a debatable and reference-able format...


Furthermore, your statements are not debatable or referenced either. Rather hypocrticial of you is it not?

JasonB
November 20, 2010, 21:05
Originally posted by Bama Steve


Geeze, where did you conclude that we disagreed? Same shit, different thread . . .

I asked him to put his thoughts into a debatable and reference-able format and you once again thrust your hard-head into the midst and obscure the intent of my reply.

I guess I am just a homo according to you because I am neat and tidy with my thought processes, right?

(You done accused me and several others of that already - when ya' gonna stop-it?).


:rofl:

Ok, you have the floor. Tell us exactly how you agree with Raspeguy.

Bama Steve
November 20, 2010, 21:08
Originally posted by Stranger


Steve, here is your post.



That is in no way of shape or form your later statement.



Furthermore, your statements are not debatable or referenced either. Rather hypocrticial of you is it not?

We'll talk tomorrow if you wish as you seem to be tripping-over the obvious/literal at this point.

No harm meant.

Bama Steve
November 20, 2010, 21:14
Originally posted by JasonB


Ok, you have the floor. Tell us exactly how you agree with Raspeguy.

Which of his many points would you like to discuss?

That's why I asked him to enumerate his thoughts . . .

Scatterbrained verbalization is hardly an example of a logical mind now is it?

Just an observation . . .

Now - collect your thoughts and present them logically or just package-up your rabidity and dump it on the curb - you guys choose the delivery.

Be well.

:beer:

JasonB
November 20, 2010, 21:19
Originally posted by Bama Steve


Which of his many points would you like to discuss?



I don't wish to discuss. I asked what he had stated that was incorrect and you responded with:

"Geeze, where did you conclude that we disagreed?"

So tell us how you agree with him on everything then. Go through sentence by sentence. I don't think any of us need an itemized list.

Bama Steve
November 20, 2010, 21:23
Originally posted by JasonB


I don't wish to discuss. I asked what he had stated that was incorrect and you responded with:

"Geeze, where did you conclude that we disagreed?"

So tell us how you agree with him on everything then. Go through sentence by sentence. I don't think any of us need an itemized list.

You are way too organized and logical for me, Sir.

I give!

You win.

:bow:

K.O.A.M.
November 20, 2010, 22:20
Originally posted by wyatt earp
Viva Democracy!! Your tax dollars at work.


Founded to fight communism in the Western Hemisphere, it quickly became known as the School of the Assassins. But for the past 20 years, Jesuit priest Roy Bourgeois has watched over its gates and held its graduates accountable for their crimes. The School of the Americas Watch (SOA Watch) began with just 10 activists in a small apartment across the street from Ft. Benning in the US State of Georgia.
[/IMG]

I'm good with it. If they need an extra $5, I'm good for it.

wyatt earp
November 21, 2010, 03:49
L Haney you uneducated moron. What cave are you living in.

Look at the video's below then come back and talk to me.


First video shows who Al-Qaeda got its training and weapons from.

Training radical Muslims (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMRP7sh0Q1s&feature=related)

US sponsored abuse/murder (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldVYm7hGewQ&feature=related)

This video was before 9/11......of course this information is no longer available from the US main stream media.....I wonder why.

JasonB
November 21, 2010, 07:57
Originally posted by wyatt earp
L Haney you uneducated moron. What cave are you living in.

Look at the video's below then come back and talk to me.


First video shows who Al-Qaeda got its training and weapons from.

Training radical Muslims (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMRP7sh0Q1s&feature=related)

US sponsored abuse/murder (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldVYm7hGewQ&feature=related)

This video was before 9/11......of course this information is no longer available from the US main stream media.....I wonder why.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg

martin35
November 21, 2010, 18:45
In the last ten years there have been many Democrats who have made specious charges that were not substantiated, if the allegations were true John Murtha would have made them known when we lost the war in Iraq and Americans were killing women and children in the middle of the night,,,, same crap 2nd verse.

JasonB
November 22, 2010, 06:28
Originally posted by martin35
In the last ten years there have been many Democrats who have made specious charges that were not substantiated, if the allegations were true John Murtha would have made them known when we lost the war in Iraq and Americans were killing women and children in the middle of the night,,,, same crap 2nd verse.

Sorry, but there is the pic above of where we were directly funding a terrorist.

the gman
November 22, 2010, 08:54
Originally posted by JasonB


Sorry, but there is the pic above of where we were directly funding a terrorist.

At the time of that pic, Saddam was one of our 'friends' in the Middle East as he was fighting a war against our most definite enemy, Iraq. See, this is the big problem with US foreign policy, it changes from decade to decade & whilst a policy of isolationism is attractive in theory, in practice, it's not so easy. Especially when you must be involved in a region that determines your GDP by controlling a natural resource like oil. Yesterday's freedom fighter is today's terrorist.

My own personal view is that the war in Iraq was wholly unnecessary & that Bush is a turd for starting same. I have no faith that any of the other candidates for Pres would have done any better.

To the point of the thread, the idea of the SOA is to expose & promote the US way of doing things & by exposing selected foreign mil folks to our ideas, our way of life & principles, we hopefully influence them in a positive way.

The US has for years meddled in other countries domestic policy when it was in their interest & continue to do so. Most of the South & Central American countries are demonstrably inept & unable to govern their countries without the use of bribes, pay offs & a system of nepotism that makes the last days of Rome look amateurish.

Have some of the graduates of the SOA gone home & used some of that knowledge to subdue, torture & murder their countrymen? Undeniably. Is that the IDEA, the driving purpose of the SOA? Absolutely not.

Every person that has a vehicle has the ability to be a murdering drunk driver but is that the purpose of teaching people to drive? Of course not. I can show a person how to use a screwdriver to install wall outlets but if they choose to use that same tool to stab someone, is that my fault or the PURPOSE of my instruction? Absolutely not.

Many of the graduates of the SOA have returned to their nations with a greater appreciation of what freedom is like & no doubt with a determination to bring it to their nation. Saying that every graduate from the school is a torturer or murderer of innocents is like saying that every girl that leaves high school is a whore: both are equipped for the task, it's the CHOICES of the individual that makes the difference.

Have a nice day.:biggrin:

V guy
November 22, 2010, 09:49
The "School of the Americas", has for years, been the very best school in the world.

It is an honorable and decent school, a school that brings out the very very best in foreign soldiers taught at the school, and ours, too.

Like the Green Berets of the Vietnam era and the Ranger and LRP schools, we have always trained students to be the best and do the worst possible.

It is the American Way.

We, afterall, are not inbred rotten scumbag Europeans or UN supporters--all Crotchrotted liberals who desire nothing but to be raped and killed by ragheads.

Someone very very close to me, taught for a time at this school.
The school and whatever it is called today is still the very very best!!

The total elimination of communists like Lori Berenson must be priority one.

Other schools exist for the elimination of Ragheads and illegal aliens, but those are different schools, but GREAT schools!!

All the schools are taxpayer supported and should be. Like Nukes, B-52's, the AR-15, all the schools we run are correct and those who would decry them ought to just go to Cuba and get it over with.
Oh yeah, Fidel is going capitalist in his old age and his schools were far worse than ours.

Life is not a paintball game where the participants go home and get sued by the ACLU.
Real life is dirty and bloody and honorable when it is the enemy is the one to suffer when he touches somethng we booby trapped.

The war along out southern border today must turn much more violent and bloody before we win there and many will die there over the next decade.

wyatt earp
November 22, 2010, 13:33
You knuckle heads just refuse to see the big picture. The trainers at the school are good patriotic Americans but the whole program at the school is being used by US intelligence agencies to further the economic interest of the US. Thump your chest and wave the stars and stripes all you want but the military is but a pawn in the big chess game of American empire.

How do we know where the terrorist training camps in Pakistan are? We built them to train the Mujahdeen....who were then called freedom fighters.

Why did Iran become a radical Muslim nation? We overthrew the democratically elected government in the 50's and installed a dictator that murdered thousands and gave us cheap oil. The Iranians said we ain't gonna take it no more.

Why was Iraq attacked? Saddam started selling his oil in Euros threatening the status of the US dollar. Two months after the invasion oil was again being sold in dollars.

Why don't some of you guys extend the same patriotic thinking you have for the US to the peoples of other nations. Why is it okay for us to **** up a nation for our benefit.

If China should invade the US and we take up arms to kill them should we be labeled terrorist? I think not. So why label the Iraqi insurgents terrorist? We are in their country under false pretenses and they want us the **** out.

Think for yourself folks and stop believing what the main stream media is feeding you. Chest thumping, flag waving fools are just who the puppeteers are counting on to further their agenda and do their dirty work under the guise of "freedom and democracy".


Iran begins selling oil in euros (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/30/business/main4057490.shtml) hence talk of regime change.

Petro dollars video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8AxEZ7RKdU)

Petro dollar 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5yKxOBj2zk&feature=related)

StarPD
November 22, 2010, 14:23
Interesting that Wyatt Earp refers to a Russian sponsored web site to get his criticism of US military practices. I think that speaks volumes of his positions and his perspective. That Central and South American troops have taken military tactics they learned from the US then used them to inflict atrocities on their fellow countrymen is not surprising. After all, that none of them have had a stable government, much less freedom should explain their acts. Witness how Mexican military has largely joined the drug cartel in their horrendous behavior, and then added in what muslims practice to make it even more horrific. Maybe you could blame THAT on America too. After all, the democommies claim that the Mexican drug cartels get all of their machine guns, grenades, and RPGs from Americans who buy them retail from gun stores in the US.

But then, it is the democommie way to blame America for all of the world's ills. It's right out of Alinsky's playbook, as promoted by OHHHH Bama and his minions. Meanwhile, blaming American troops for teaching atrocities while suffering from ROE that results in far too many American deaths in the Middle East somehow doesn't register with America-haters. Not convenient enough for America-haters, so that is dismissed as non-productive for the OHHHH Bama blame America mantra.

Google American atrocities. I'm sure you'll find many web sites that blame us for just about everything. That ought to make you feel better about your hatred of America, and especially our military. The other trolls among us will appreciate your efforts to besmirch our brave fighting men and women. Maybe Russia, or even Iran might be a better place for you to live. You'd find plenty of fellow travellers there, and in other anti-American countries. Take your fellow trolls with you when you go. Please?

wyatt earp
November 22, 2010, 15:37
StarPD you are one of those that do not get it. I go outside the US for news to connect the dots. If you want to continue to be led then baahhhhhh...baaahhhhhh...keep on bleating brother.

I notice you have not contested any of the info in the posted links. You never knew any of that did you? Humble yourself, read,learn and one day the light bulb will come on.

Here are a few web sites to begin your quest for knowledge.

China (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/)

Russia (http://rt.com/)

Mish (http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/)

Silver Bear (http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/home.html)

Peter Schiff (http://www.europac.net/)

Internet Public Library - Newspapers (http://www.ipl.org/div/news/)

Nathan's Economic Edge (http://economicedge.blogspot.com/)

NIA (http://inflation.us/videos.html)

Denninger (http://www.denninger.net/)

BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/)

Zero Hedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/)

Defense Industry (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/)

Republic Broadcast Network (http://republicbroadcasting.org/)

CONNECT THE DOTS !!!

StarPD
November 22, 2010, 15:49
Never mind Wyatt Earp.
Just keep looking for web sites that validate your own crazy theories with anti-American drivel. I'm not in a mood to argue with an America-hater, especially one who demeans our military. I think you may be in the wrong country. Try one that publishes the web sites you recomended. You'll like it there.

Sig220
November 22, 2010, 16:07
Why is that every once in blue moon the nuts fall out of the trees and post on the FILES???:confused:

Is it the water, moon phase, hatband shrinkage or what??:rofl: :rofl:

wyatt earp
November 22, 2010, 16:40
I'm by no means an America hater, what I give you is the truth but you have been so brainwashed you simply cannot comprehend it. As I said the light bulb will one day come on.

Stranger
November 22, 2010, 16:42
Originally posted by Sig220
Why is that every once in blue moon the nuts fall out of the trees and post on the FILES???:confused:

Is it the water, moon phase, hatband shrinkage or what??:rofl: :rofl:

As one of the nuts, perhaps you can enlighten the rest of us. :smile:

JasonB
November 22, 2010, 17:13
Originally posted by the gman


At the time of that pic, Saddam was one of our 'friends' in the Middle East as he was fighting a war against our most definite enemy, Iraq. See, this is the big problem with US foreign policy, it changes from decade to decade & whilst a policy of isolationism is attractive in theory, in practice, it's not so easy. Especially when you must be involved in a region that determines your GDP by controlling a natural resource like oil. Yesterday's freedom fighter is today's terrorist.

My own personal view is that the war in Iraq was wholly unnecessary & that Bush is a turd for starting same. I have no faith that any of the other candidates for Pres would have done any better.

To the point of the thread, the idea of the SOA is to expose & promote the US way of doing things & by exposing selected foreign mil folks to our ideas, our way of life & principles, we hopefully influence them in a positive way.

The US has for years meddled in other countries domestic policy when it was in their interest & continue to do so. Most of the South & Central American countries are demonstrably inept & unable to govern their countries without the use of bribes, pay offs & a system of nepotism that makes the last days of Rome look amateurish.

Have some of the graduates of the SOA gone home & used some of that knowledge to subdue, torture & murder their countrymen? Undeniably. Is that the IDEA, the driving purpose of the SOA? Absolutely not.

Every person that has a vehicle has the ability to be a murdering drunk driver but is that the purpose of teaching people to drive? Of course not. I can show a person how to use a screwdriver to install wall outlets but if they choose to use that same tool to stab someone, is that my fault or the PURPOSE of my instruction? Absolutely not.

Many of the graduates of the SOA have returned to their nations with a greater appreciation of what freedom is like & no doubt with a determination to bring it to their nation. Saying that every graduate from the school is a torturer or murderer of innocents is like saying that every girl that leaves high school is a whore: both are equipped for the task, it's the CHOICES of the individual that makes the difference.

Have a nice day.:biggrin:

Saddam was a murderous thug at the time of the above picture and we knew it. After the fact you have no control over, but when you know beforehand and do it anyway that is a whole different story.

Pistolwiz
November 22, 2010, 17:23
"The mightiest Oak starts from a little nut that held its ground." - Anon.

brunop
November 22, 2010, 17:32
Bottom line:

My own brother is attached to the 19th SF group. I love him, and he is a good, honest, hard-working man. He joined the military to do what most young men join the military to do: fight bad guys, promote freedom, and protect mom, apple pie, and the American Way.

Haney and George have almost all of it right in my opinion: the men who are teaching are under orders to teach. To teach American values, etc. To do right. And we should be very careful about the message we put out when we criticize the "military", since it is full of our brothers and sons who are good men trying to do a difficult job, and the decisions that the "military" seems to make are often broadcast from the politicians (read: bank/CIA/mil-industrial complex) [no, my tinfoil is NOT a little tight...].

Wyatt Earp and Jason B and other "America-hating" types who feel like it is their right to question the "handlers" and the policies of this great nation are right: it IS their right to ask questions. And I'll point out that they are right to do so:

1) what, pray tell, are we actually doing in Afghanistan?

2) why did Bremer pass the "Agricultural Normalization Act" in Iraq - forcing farmers to NOT STORE SEED for next year's crop but to instead buy it (with loans = GO INTO DEBT) from Monsanto (single source, engineered seed, no competition, etc.)? If this happened to you, by, say, Chinese soldiers who were "just trying to help you help yourself out", would you pick up a rifle and fight? I would.

3) why are making war all over the world?

4) why do we have US Military bases in over 100 nations around the world?

5) blah, blah, blah...


Guys - we should honor the soldiers and the vets: they made the tough choice and fought in tough conditions. It is NOT clear to me that every decision that involves the military is a good one - these guys who are fighting KNOW that it is about money and oil in the middle east. I have two friends (one 3-tour Navy SEAL, one 4-tour 7th Group Green Beret) who didn't re-up in the last couple of years because the general consensus of guys whose boots are on the ground (actual guys lugging rifles around in tough places) is that Haliburton and other companies "in country" are making a mint. These guys aren't dumb - they know that Dick Cheney has a large stake in Haliburton. They know that US oil companies do very, very well when there is "unrest" in the middle east (would you like to earn 10% on $40/bbl or 10% on $140/bbl?). They know that Generals sit on Boards of Directors of banks AND multi-national defense contractors.

Does this duplicity fall on the shoulders of our young men like my brother? No way. Is it good (in the words of Dave Dude) to shoot Muzzie Criminal Retards? Probably. But people in the middle east are scared by America: on one hand, they see and hear of American generosity world wide (Pennies for Peace - Schools for Muslim Girls in Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc.), and on the other hand, they know that in the Iran vs. Iraq war we were selling fighter jets to BOTH SIDES. They know the people are good, but they believe (correctly?) that the leadership is as crooked as a dog's hind leg.

I think it is a pretty good idea for some people (Wyatt Earp?) to ask questions about the actual USE of the products we are producing (tanks, fighters, rifles, SOA, etc.) I think that if you have to shout a guy down and tell him he "hates America" or some other ridiculous over-simplification that DOESN'T ADDRESS THE POINT, you are maybe the one who needs to check his foundation. You (maybe) have fallen into the co-opted language of the Right (Neo Con?) that claims God, Country, Family as their platform, but is actually selling world-wide war as a way to keep the money flowing away from the American Middle Class (tax base) and into the bank's (read: FED/Euro Central Bank) hands. This (happily) helps in their God, Country, Family message, since they constructed the Hippie/Tree-Hugger/Demo-Commie vs. Republican/Support the Troops/Love America or Leave It "construction". It is a totally false dichotomy, but if we don't want to be hippies (and who does?), we need to wave the flag and "support the troops".

Don't be a sucker. There are bad people in charge, and they've been sending our men out to die for their deficit spending, war-making, world-unrest-normalizing, debt-enslavement binge since Vietnam or earlier.

Offered with love and respect to Haney, who I agree with on almost everything he's written. And I've read a lot.

Peace.

dakdak
November 22, 2010, 17:37
Wyatt,

Please tell us about your research on Russian, Soviet, Communist Chinese, Venezuelan, Cuban, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Congolese (atrocities by the left), Sierra Leon, Liberian, and other such ATROCITIES as well as training produced and given by leftist regimes and their blood thirsty thugs and murderers.

Have you taken the time to research the other side of this issue with he same vehement fervor and drooling hatred of the United States ?

ThunderGod
November 22, 2010, 17:40
Originally posted by Pistolwiz
"The mightiest Oak starts from a little nut that held its ground." - Anon.


"An Acorn with a worm in it's meat just lays there and rots."

brunop
November 22, 2010, 17:49
Great point. Seriously, do we need a school to teach us about torture? Give me some golf cart batteries and some alligator clips and I'm good to go. Or a fire and a poker. Or a bunch of other stuff I can think of right off the top of my head.

I'll bet there are way, way more examples of US soldiers going above and beyond to do the RIGHT thing in combat than there are of US soldiers doing what Murtha accused them of doing. I'll bet that US soldiers do more "right" than any nation on earth.

Finally, the leftist douchebags of the Soviet System have had torture, manipulation, murder, and dishonesty down pat since we were "walking softly and carrying a big stick" with Teddy Roosevelt (yes, historians, not quite...). I'm pretty sure the US military doesn't have to export it. And the few people I've known who were actually there pulling the trigger with SF groups will tell you that we do everything we can to do the right thing.

I, for one, believe them.

JasonB
November 22, 2010, 17:55
Originally posted by StarPD
Never mind Wyatt Earp.
Just keep looking for web sites that validate your own crazy theories with anti-American drivel. I'm not in a mood to argue with an America-hater, especially one who demeans our military. I think you may be in the wrong country. Try one that publishes the web sites you recomended. You'll like it there.

A few years ago a jailer from a couple of counties over was given the choice or resigning or getting to stand in front of a jury and explain the various criminal enterprises that were being operated out of the jail according to statewide news papers and every rado station outside of that county. The radio stations with in the county in question were reporting that there were some difficulties at the jail and the jailer had just decided to finally retire to spend some time with his family and they tried that story for about 2 weeks before finally admitting what the full story was. Very pathetic that they would try it, but try it they did.

brunop
November 22, 2010, 17:59
And I didn't mean to give Wyatt Earp a "pass", because posting stuff like this:

"Imagine a school dedicated to teaching torture, to educating soldiers on how to rape and murder American nuns and assassinate Salvadoran priests; an institution whose mission is to demonstrate how to 'disappear' innocent civilians with total impunity..."


is just plain stupid. Really? The SOA is "dedicated" to teaching soldiers how to rape American nuns? That is so damned disingenuous that one would think that L Haney would be along shortly to... oh, wait....

"...how to 'disappear' civilians with total impunity...", as if the US training cadre can actually create the environment in a third-world crap hole that allows for murder with "impunity"? Uh huh. Maybe this works if you are a mouth-breathing hippy that actually hates America and all people that work for a living?

Get real.

Raspeguy
November 22, 2010, 18:34
"...how to 'disappear' civilians with total impunity...", as if the US training cadre can actually create the environment in a third-world crap hole that allows for murder with "impunity"? Uh huh. Maybe this works if you are a mouth-breathing hippy that actually hates America and all people that work for a living?
Well now, there was the Phoenix program in Vietnam, and although it was primarily a CIA operation, there were special ops cadre involved with it. It also needs mentioning that many of the then "non-military" CIA were former special op uniformed military. Once a psychopath..........

Like all such things it will take a number of years before much light is shed on it. I recall vaguely something earlier in the Afghan war where several thousand captives were left to die in containers from either lack of air or heat prostration within the presence or direction of SF personnel which was hastily covered up. It would need some researching.

Anyway, when our military is involved in this crap, and the practice is condoned, it may one day be deemed acceptable for application on our own citizens. We have already seen a gaining acceptance of this "above the law" mentality being considered for U.S. citizens. It doesn't take much of a stretch of imagination to see whom this would one day be ultimately applied to. Never underestimate the power of the paycheck and financial security plus a little measure of sadistic personality to fill these slots.

wyatt earp
November 22, 2010, 20:28
brunop good "Bottom Line" post. I agree with everything you said. Some of us act like parents who deny to the end that their kid can do any wrong.
The fact is that the US government has consistently screwed nations over for economic gain and the primary tool to accomplish this is the military. Am I soldier bashing? No! Take the big picture view.

As far as researching the Russians, Chinese and others I couldn't give a rats ass...I do not live there and never intend to. If my neighbor beats and abuses his wife in front of me then I'll call the cops. I would not use his behavior as a yardstick to measure my own. I know what is acceptable and what's not. I am concerned about what we here in the US do and that we do it right.

How many of you believe Saddam was a threat to the US? I believe it is well established that the reasons for going to war have all turned out to be false....lies. Having said that I have a huge problem with sending our young people in uniform to die for nothing to increase the wealth of the elites.

For those of you who haven't seen it...well worth viewing:

Buying the war (http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/btw/watch.html)

Let's stop muddling around infighting...Republicans vs Democrats.......and address the real issues. We are being played folks...big time.

JasonB
November 22, 2010, 21:27
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

martin35
November 22, 2010, 21:42
Not having the will or ability to defend what is done in your behalf and then to seek to demean those who do defend this country is less than is than honorable in my view. My fears should be overcome not validated is my goal and credo, who dares wins and is feared,,, works for me runner up is for losers.

JasonB
November 22, 2010, 22:00
Originally posted by martin35
Not having the will or ability to defend what is done in your behalf and then to seek to demean those who do defend this country is less than is than honorable in my view. My fears should be overcome not validated is my goal and credo, who dares wins and is feared,,, works for me runner up is for losers.

I don't have any business interests in foreign countries so who are you talking to?

the gman
November 22, 2010, 22:59
Originally posted by wyatt earp
brunop good "Bottom Line" post. I agree with everything you said. Some of us act like parents who deny to the end that their kid can do any wrong.
The fact is that the US government has consistently screwed nations over for economic gain and the primary tool to accomplish this is the military. Am I soldier bashing? No! Take the big picture view.

As far as researching the Russians, Chinese and others I couldn't give a rats ass...I do not live there and never intend to. If my neighbor beats and abuses his wife in front of me then I'll call the cops. I would not use his behavior as a yardstick to measure my own. I know what is acceptable and what's not. I am concerned about what we here in the US do and that we do it right.

How many of you believe Saddam was a threat to the US? I believe it is well established that the reasons for going to war have all turned out to be false....lies. Having said that I have a huge problem with sending our young people in uniform to die for nothing to increase the wealth of the elites.

For those of you who haven't seen it...well worth viewing:

Buying the war (http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/btw/watch.html)

Let's stop muddling around infighting...Republicans vs Democrats.......and address the real issues. We are being played folks...big time.

Oh no Sir, you don't get off that easy.

You posted this:

Imagine a school dedicated to teaching torture, to educating soldiers on how to rape and murder American nuns and assassinate Salvadoran priests; an institution whose mission is to demonstrate how to ‘disappear’ innocent civilians with total impunity.

Now imagine it’s funded with American taxpayer dollars and that it’s located on American soil. But you don’t have to imagine, because for the past 62 years, the School of the Americas has done exactly that.

From Pinochet's soldiers in Chile, D'Aubuisson's death squads in El Salvador, Banzer's minions in Bolivia, Galtieri's operatives in Argentina and Rios Montt's soldiers in Guatemala to the present-day generals responsible for the coup in Honduras and the drug war killings in Colombia, the School of the Americas has a dark legacy. Renamed the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation, the school has graduated 65,000 soldiers from 18 countries.

Founded to fight communism in the Western Hemisphere, it quickly became known as the School of the Assassins. But for the past 20 years, Jesuit priest Roy Bourgeois has watched over its gates and held its graduates accountable for their crimes. The School of the Americas Watch (SOA Watch) began with just 10 activists in a small apartment across the street from Ft. Benning in the US State of Georgia.

Which I presume from all the mistakes & stupid little symbols in it, you cut & pasted from another site. You claim to agree with brunop & don't wish to critize the military yet you post completely FALSE & ignorant information as your opening shot so the question has to be: are you really playing with a full deck??

I think not. The 'elite' have been around for thousands of years as money always buys power. You may have heard of the golden rule: he who has the gold makes the rules. It has never been any different nor will it be until human nature changes.

Does that make it right? Of course not nor do I agree with it but your feeble attempt to illustrate same by branding instructors at the SOA as thugs, rape instructors et al does little to demonstrate either your integrity or your ability to get to the meat of the matter.

Raspeguy: do you actually know any SF soldiers or are you basing your info on 2nd hand accounts from biased sources? I'm not disputing that atrocities have taken place in Iraq & Ashcanistan (usually involving native on native actions rather than with Western forces) but hundreds of folks suffocating either at the direction of or with the tacit approval of US SF? Er, no, sorry, knowing as many decent, honorable & dedicated SF folks as I do, nope, that lie ain't flying. The SF folks I know (& I know a LOT) are more dedicated to the ideals this nation were founded upon than most of the other 'regular' mil folks I have met. SF are a different breed, they have to be to survive the selection process & their esprit de corps is extremely strong. I don't know a single SF soldier who would refuse to speak their mind in a situation such as you posted nor one who would obey an illegal order. If you have ever served, you know that an illegal order is one that contravenes UCMJ, the Geneva Conventions, the Hague Accords or any other number of conventions or ROE. Suffocating prisoners is most certainly one that falls into that category. The guys I know would not participate in that nor would they be silent about it either. They may very well have had orders from higher authority to not get involved with the policies of the ANA or other Afghan forces but they certainly would have told someone about it on their return.

As Brunop mentioned, most US forces & especially SF are not ignorant about the political/MIC aspect of their deployments & those with serious options are not re-enlisting.

I take issue with categorizing many who serve as "psychopaths" as this is a very broad brush you are painting many of our soldiers with. From your posts over the years, could I call you obsessive compulsive? You betcha. I think you suffer from CDO: it's like OCD except all the letters are in order like they should be....... :rofl: ;) True? Or a gross mis-characterization based on nothing more than my opinion?

wyatt earp
November 22, 2010, 23:00
JasonB, good post, seems that we have learned nothing over the years.

wyatt earp
November 22, 2010, 23:06
the gman, take your meds you're ranting and raving.

brunop
November 22, 2010, 23:36
I think it is normal for this topic to create emotional responses: we all love America and our view of what it is (has been?) and what that means to us.

I don't think that the mil guys (enlisted, officer, or SF [yes, I know they are either enlisted or officers]) are psychopaths, and I don't believe for a minute that the SF guys I know will go against their consciences for a paycheck. I don't believe it: a lot of them skipped the paycheck when they PASSED on the Blackwater-type compensation to stay with their units, etc., so why did they all turn to whores when Big Brother says they have to start doing bad things to US citizens? Some will? Of course there are bad apples everywhere. Most won't.

But I'm pretty sure there are a bunch of us that don't want to read the full story: the one where our guys are being dragged around the globe to do what Smedley Butler said he and his guys were doing 60 years ago: being the strong-arm for American corporate interests. It is sickening, but on the macro scale, it appears to be true. On the micro-scale, it is one good man at a time being brave and doing his duty and fighting for his brothers, his family, and his country. The sick thing in my mind is how well the PTBs have harnessed the patriotism of the dutiful. I also don't like how good, intelligent, well-meaning Americans (like some guys on this board) jump into line with the current narrative about America, "supporting the military", and typical NeoCon poop. It helps the Bank/MIC keep on keeping on.

Doubt me on this? The SF guys who are on the ground ALL KNOW that they are being played/used. Why are SF guys non-renewing in record numbers? Why did Obama announce a quota for qualifying a certain number of Green Berets last year?

the gman
November 22, 2010, 23:45
Originally posted by JasonB


Saddam was a murderous thug at the time of the above picture and we knew it. After the fact you have no control over, but when you know beforehand and do it anyway that is a whole different story.

So which is it? Was he a murderous thug or a terrorist at the time of that pic?

I'll go with murderous thug as it more accurately sums up Saddam & his character in that time frame. He was described as a terrorist later on when he had the temerity to threaten the lives of the Bush clan rather than any other American lives but I digress.

Of course we knew exactly what Saddam was like but the US held their noses & dealt with him anyway. Was the alternative? Let the Russians completely consolidate their position in Iraq & threaten the West's access to oil?

Again, what is your point? America is a bad country because it's made some terrible decisions in whom to support at various times? Or what?

the gman
November 22, 2010, 23:50
Originally posted by wyatt earp
the gman, take your meds you're ranting and raving.

And you're a lying sack of shit who wants to pretend that he didn't post that American military instructors are guys who show overseas students how to rape nuns & murder innocent civilians. I'm not on meds but maybe you should be as you are off the wall & a hypocritical prick to boot. GFY.:devil: :devil: :p

JasonB
November 23, 2010, 06:29
Originally posted by the gman


So which is it? Was he a murderous thug or a terrorist at the time of that pic?

I'll go with murderous thug as it more accurately sums up Saddam & his character in that time frame. He was described as a terrorist later on when he had the temerity to threaten the lives of the Bush clan rather than any other American lives but I digress.

Of course we knew exactly what Saddam was like but the US held their noses & dealt with him anyway. Was the alternative? Let the Russians completely consolidate their position in Iraq & threaten the West's access to oil?

Again, what is your point? America is a bad country because it's made some terrible decisions in whom to support at various times? Or what?

Oooh worry about overseas communists!! Yeah, that took everyone's minds off the domestic variety. That's a really good idea.

Is there really any difference between a terrorist and a muderous thug?

Odd, I cannot find providing foreign welfare listed as a duty of the US government anywhere in the Constitution. Can you point it out? Doesn't really matter if the foreign welfare office is any good at picking recipients or not.

JasonB
November 23, 2010, 06:35
Originally posted by the gman


And you're a lying sack of shit who wants to pretend that he didn't post that American military instructors are guys who show overseas students how to rape nuns & murder innocent civilians. I'm not on meds but maybe you should be as you are off the wall & a hypocritical prick to boot. GFY.:devil: :devil: :p

If you are working for someone who has a history of ordering you to go about raping and murdering and I show you how to more effectively subdue someone then it is what it is. I may not be showing you how to rock your hips for greater pleasure, but I damn sure have aided your objective.

Interesting how much petty crap they wish to violate the 2nd amendment with, but they will arm and teach full blown criminals.

ThunderGod
November 23, 2010, 10:46
Seriously? You seriously linked to PBS and Bill-effin-Moyers?

You are the epitome of "Fail." :rolleyes:

Originally posted by wyatt earp
Buying the war (http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/btw/watch.html)

Stranger
November 23, 2010, 10:56
Originally posted by brunop
I think it is normal for this topic to create emotional responses: we all love America and our view of what it is (has been?) and what that means to us.

I don't think that the mil guys (enlisted, officer, or SF [yes, I know they are either enlisted or officers]) are psychopaths, and I don't believe for a minute that the SF guys I know will go against their consciences for a paycheck. I don't believe it: a lot of them skipped the paycheck when they PASSED on the Blackwater-type compensation to stay with their units, etc., so why did they all turn to whores when Big Brother says they have to start doing bad things to US citizens? Some will? Of course there are bad apples everywhere. Most won't.

But I'm pretty sure there are a bunch of us that don't want to read the full story: the one where our guys are being dragged around the globe to do what Smedley Butler said he and his guys were doing 60 years ago: being the strong-arm for American corporate interests. It is sickening, but on the macro scale, it appears to be true. On the micro-scale, it is one good man at a time being brave and doing his duty and fighting for his brothers, his family, and his country. The sick thing in my mind is how well the PTBs have harnessed the patriotism of the dutiful. I also don't like how good, intelligent, well-meaning Americans (like some guys on this board) jump into line with the current narrative about America, "supporting the military", and typical NeoCon poop. It helps the Bank/MIC keep on keeping on.

Doubt me on this? The SF guys who are on the ground ALL KNOW that they are being played/used. Why are SF guys non-renewing in record numbers? Why did Obama announce a quota for qualifying a certain number of Green Berets last year?

+1

I think a lot of folks have taken wyatt's statements out of context and at other times made bald-faced lies about what he posted.

Stranger
November 23, 2010, 10:57
Originally posted by the gman


And you're a lying sack of shit who wants to pretend that he didn't post that American military instructors are guys who show overseas students how to rape nuns & murder innocent civilians.

Quote him, or he didn't type it.

Sig220
November 23, 2010, 11:51
strangler had to check up on you and it still appears your reading comprehension suffers as do you.

Wyatt posted in his first post of this thread..........

"Imagine a school dedicated to teaching torture, to educating soldiers on how to rape and murder American nuns and assassinate Salvadoran priests; an institution whose mission is to demonstrate how to ‘disappear’ innocent civilians with total impunity."

So there you go, he did type it.

wyatt earp
November 23, 2010, 12:01
Thundergod, did you even view the video before you criticized the link. Be intelligent sir and absorb the information without clouding the facts because you have an issue with the messenger, Moyers.

Buying the war (http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/btw/watch.html) Video clearly shows how we are being played.

For the information of all, my first post came from "Russia Today" and if the time had been taken to read the article accompanying the video some of you would have determined this.

Stranger
November 23, 2010, 12:08
Originally posted by Sig220
strangler had to check up on you and it still appears your reading comprehension suffers as do you.

Wyatt posted in his first post of this thread..........

"Imagine a school dedicated to teaching torture, to educating soldiers on how to rape and murder American nuns and assassinate Salvadoran priests; an institution whose mission is to demonstrate how to ‘disappear’ innocent civilians with total impunity."

So there you go, he did type it.

Try again, Mr. Compulsive Liar. He copied and pasted (i.e. quoted) from a website. I'm not surprised you can't tell the difference between quoting a source, and making a statement yourself.

Kind of like if I post:

America is in a war with terrorism. We should not be arming the terrorists with such destructive weapons of war. It is time to regulate 50 caliber sniper rifles by bringing them under the National Firearms Act, so that local and federal law enforcement agencies will, at the very least, know who has them.

VPC Website (http://www.vpc.org/graphics/whyregulate50s.pdf)

Just because I quote an article doesn't mean I believe it.

Sig220
November 23, 2010, 14:49
Originally posted by Stranger


Try again, Mr. Compulsive Liar. He copied and pasted (i.e. quoted) from a website. I'm not surprised you can't tell the difference between quoting a source, and making a statement yourself.

Kind of like if I post:

America is in a war with terrorism. We should not be arming the terrorists with such destructive weapons of war. It is time to regulate 50 caliber sniper rifles by bringing them under the National Firearms Act, so that local and federal law enforcement agencies will, at the very least, know who has them.

VPC Website (http://www.vpc.org/graphics/whyregulate50s.pdf)

Just because I quote an article doesn't mean I believe it.

Quoting it is the same as typing it you knock kneed, purse swinging, cry baby. The fact is that he did not include any source or quotation marks for the post is his fault. Your bullshit of copied and pasted is the same as typing......without quotation marks HE is taking credit for it.

So don't try to split hairs, go pluck your eye brows instead:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: But don't tell the "coach":rolleyes: :rofl: :rofl:

Stranger
November 23, 2010, 17:34
Originally posted by Sig220

Quoting it is the same as typing it you knock kneed, purse swinging, cry baby. The fact is that he did not include any source or quotation marks for the post is his fault. Your bullshit of copied and pasted is the same as typing......without quotation marks HE is taking credit for it.


It is obvious to you he copied/pasted from a website (not even bothering to correct the html coding problems), and then you claim it is his original work. :rofl: You really are a loon!

BTW, he included the link to the article he copied in the second line of the post.

What was that you were saying about reading comprehension again? I can't seem to find that post... :tongue:

Sig220
November 23, 2010, 18:36
Originally posted by Stranger


It is obvious to you he copied/pasted from a website (not even bothering to correct the html coding problems), and then you claim it is his original work. :rofl: You really are a loon!

BTW, he included the link to the article he copied in the second line of the post.

What was that you were saying about reading comprehension again? I can't seem to find that post... :tongue:

Obviously, you lack the intellect to follow this very far, so I will be brief.....
and no I don't work for TSA:rolleyes:

So there was a link.......it said to a video.......I don't knowingly click links to such things as they may cause a vapor lock of my puter. You on the other hand are vapor locked.......so it won't hurt you:biggrin:

Don't go swinging your purse my way... and quit quoting me........troll.

BTW, I tire of my take home vehicle and wish for another, can you put in a word for me???

:biggrin:

Bama Steve
November 23, 2010, 19:05
The addition of a few skilled assassination teams to the world would produce a more calm existence for all while maintaining a balance which is sustainable if controlled by the right minds and morals.

Unfortunately, stupid greedy people seem to run rough-shod over the earth and always have.

Killin' ain't wrong; it's how it it applied and for what purpose that could be considered wrong.

What purpose and end would you like to see come about?

(Directed at no-one but, everyone).

the gman
November 23, 2010, 21:02
Originally posted by Stranger


It is obvious to you he copied/pasted from a website (not even bothering to correct the html coding problems), and then you claim it is his original work. :rofl: You really are a loon!

BTW, he included the link to the article he copied in the second line of the post.

What was that you were saying about reading comprehension again? I can't seem to find that post... :tongue:

Stranger is a moron & this proves it:

Quoting it is the same as typing it you knock kneed, purse swinging, cry baby. The fact is that he did not include any source or quotation marks for the post is his fault. Your bullshit of copied and pasted is the same as typing......without quotation marks HE is taking credit for it.

So don't try to split hairs, go pluck your eye brows instead But don't tell the "coach"

Now did I type that or am I taking credit for it?

Quoting it is the same as typing it you knock kneed, purse swinging, cry baby. The fact is that he did not include any source or quotation marks for the post is his fault. Your bullshit of copied and pasted is the same as typing......without quotation marks HE is taking credit for it. So don't try to split hairs, go pluck your eye brows instead But don't tell the "coach" THIS makes it easy to see that I quoted someone else. I also happen to agree with the quoted remarks or I would have posted something to contradict or disagree with the quote.

In conclusion, it's pretty fcuking obvious that the tool bag Earp sympathized with the quotation or why quote it without condemning it? By quoting it, he agreed with it ergo, it's not such a huge leap (except for a tiny mind like yours) to ridicule or chastise him for doing so.

I take it from some of your posts that you are a teacher or instructor but if you are unable to discern the intent of a person's quotation, then your students are poorly served by you.

StarPD
November 24, 2010, 12:10
I find it interesting, not to mention ironic, that the OP's position and that of his supporters presumes (erroneously of course) that Central/South Americans, or anyone else for that matter, needed our military to teach and/or encourage torture and rape. For those who refuse to get it, these atrocities have been going on for millenia, and have never needed the help of American troops to practice, or even refine these odious endeavors.

I guess maybe those who blame America for the world's ills think that Ollie North took a time machine and went back to the Spanish Inquisition to teach the rogue Bishops how to torture, or perhaps America used that same time machine to send American SF back to mohammed's time to teach him how to spread suffering and destruction.

But then, as one poster noted, it is not only the muslims today who engage in torture of the worst kind, and the communist rebels across the globe who ravage civilian populations (think as only two examples Stalin and Mao), but maniacs of every stripe, like those in Southeast Asia. How about Idid Amin?

No, the world doesn't need Americans to teach them torture of any kind, DABTL's claim that waterboarding is "torture" notwithstanding. So which of the countries that sponsored the OP's posted several web sites is innocent of doing what they accuse the US of? Russia? Give me a break. Despite my facetious suggestion that the OP move to Russia, I seriously doubt that anyone among us would even think of moving to any of the coutries that post web sites accusing America of atrocities. While there have been anomalies like My Lai, such incidents are few and far between, those certainly of minitiature scope and even numbers when compared to other countries, and committed by the smallest handful of abberant morons, who BTW, are the same kind of maniacs who commit atrocities against innnocents right here in the US, like Daumer, Gacy, and so on.

If you would besmirch and demean our brave troops, then at least have the guts to come right out and admit that you are an America-hating anarchist. If you claim the right to speak your mind of such things then have the the courage to admit where you are coming from. Note that denials and lying about your motives is of no consequence when spewing filth about our brave men and women, who deserve far better, expecially considering their continuing sacrifices.

As for me, I respect and appreciate our brave military, and will stand in support of them regardless of what lies and exaggerations are spread about them, and I have no use for anyone who disparages them. I am cognizant of the fact that whenever there is any trouble in the world, it is to America, and its brave troops, that our hateful detractors turn to for salvation. Maybe our homegrown America haters might want to ponder that truth before posting their lying anti-American screed.

Stranger
November 24, 2010, 16:47
Originally posted by the gman

In conclusion, it's pretty fcuking obvious that the tool bag Earp sympathized with the quotation or why quote it without condemning it? By quoting it, he agreed with it ergo, it's not such a huge leap (except for a tiny mind like yours) to ridicule or chastise him for doing so.

I take it from some of your posts that you are a teacher or instructor but if you are unable to discern the intent of a person's quotation, then your students are poorly served by you.

Did he sympathize, or did he whole-heartedly agree with the statements made? There is a big difference that a dumbass like yourself would probably miss. He never said, but a lot of dumbshits jumped on him anyway.

I can sympathize with an Afgani who doesn't like foreign troops and a corrupt government telling him not to grow poppies. I can sympathize if he says he wants them dead. If he chooses to kill because of his desire to be free I can sympathize, but I may not agree with his actions.

As for you last comment, considering how many times you have been fired due to poor performance I wouldn't talk about others being poor servants. :wink:

JasonB
November 24, 2010, 17:47
Originally posted by StarPD
I find it interesting, not to mention ironic, that the OP's position and that of his supporters presumes (erroneously of course) that Central/South Americans, or anyone else for that matter, needed our military to teach and/or encourage torture and rape. For those who refuse to get it, these atrocities have been going on for millenia, and have never needed the help of American troops to practice, or even refine these odious endeavors.



Yes it has been going on a long time, so why do you wish to aid them in their endeavors?

Also, where is providing foreign welfare listed as a duty of the federal government in the Constitution?

Heat
November 24, 2010, 18:10
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the gman
November 24, 2010, 20:58
Originally posted by Stranger


Did he sympathize, or did he whole-heartedly agree with the statements made? There is a big difference that a dumbass like yourself would probably miss. He never said, but a lot of dumbshits jumped on him anyway.

I can sympathize with an Afgani who doesn't like foreign troops and a corrupt government telling him not to grow poppies. I can sympathize if he says he wants them dead. If he chooses to kill because of his desire to be free I can sympathize, but I may not agree with his actions.

As for you last comment, considering how many times you have been fired due to poor performance I wouldn't talk about others being poor servants. :wink:

Actually fuckstick, never, not once in my entire life have I EVER been fired. Got any more happy horseshit lies to spread or what?? Continue running your cum dumpster to show what a complete fcuking idiot you are.

By failing to disagree with the comments he posted, he, by default, agrees with them. If he disagreed, it's pretty obvious that he would have said so by saying something along the lines of "Jesus, can you believe WTF those Russian bastards are saying about the SOA??"

Fact is, he didn't & even came back in a second post to jump all over L Haney for calling on his shit by asking Haney if he even watched the vid so it's pretty obvious to anyone with at least half a brain (rules you out 'natch :rolleyes: ) where Earp's sympathies lie.

Go suck a sack of dicks you fuckin' knob scoffing douchebag.:devil: :devil:

Sig220
November 24, 2010, 21:12
Originally posted by the gman


Actually fuckstick, never, not once in my entire life have I EVER been fired. Got any more happy horseshit lies to spread or what?? Continue running your cum dumpster to show what a complete fcuking idiot you are.

By failing to disagree with the comments he posted, he, by default, agrees with them. If he disagreed, it's pretty obvious that he would have said so by saying something along the lines of "Jesus, can you believe WTF those Russian bastards are saying about the SOA??"

Fact is, he didn't & even came back in a second post to jump all over L Haney for calling on his shit by asking Haney if he even watched the vid so it's pretty obvious to anyone with at least half a brain (rules you out 'natch :rolleyes: ) where Earp's sympathies lie.

Go suck a sack of dicks you fuckin' knob scoffing douchebag.:devil: :devil:

ROFLMAO................:rofl: :rofl:

Ssarge
November 24, 2010, 21:33
Hey George and Siggy, be easy on dick strangler. He's still smarting from the ass whuping he got from that soccer mom a short time back. Besides if you don't he'll just tell on you.

ThunderGod
November 26, 2010, 13:50
wyatt, if the "messenger" is a known poisoner, a wise and cautious man does not willingly drink from the proffered cup. To do so would prove one to be a suicidal fool.

Pistolwiz
November 27, 2010, 13:54
Originally posted by JasonB
Also, where is providing foreign welfare listed as a duty of the federal government in the Constitution?

FIFY- Where in the constitution is the federal government authorized to provide financial or any other kind of support to any country?

Answer- Nowhere.

Where is the fedgov authorized to fund overseas education of any sort?

Answer- Nowhere.

Funny. (Not really.) The fedgov doesn't follow the highest law in its own land. You know......... That pesky constitution that is too little mentioned around here. Easily proven. But we will teach freedom and democracy to other countries?

What? Teach them to be obedient sheep? :rofl:

Hypocrisy is too light a word for this.

I have no idea what they teach in the SOA. All I know is that we are not suppose to be doing it in the first place.

Remember? The law? http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1732036

juanni
November 28, 2010, 01:31
Originally posted by Pistolwiz


FIFY- Where in the constitution is the federal government authorized to provide financial or any other kind of support to any country?

Answer- Nowhere.

Where is the fedgov authorized to fund overseas education of any sort?

Answer- Nowhere.

Funny. (Not really.) The fedgov doesn't follow the highest law in its own land. You know......... That pesky constitution that is too little mentioned around here. Easily proven. But we will teach freedom and democracy to other countries?

What? Teach them to be obedient sheep? :rofl:

Hypocrisy is too light a word for this.

I have no idea what they teach in the SOA. All I know is that we are not suppose to be doing it in the first place.

Remember? The law? http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1732036

Well yeah, there is that. :whiskey: :whiskey: :whiskey:



..................juanni

wyatt earp
November 28, 2010, 15:25
Funny you guys speak about the constitution....remember the 1st amendment....freedom of speech and all that.

From Russia Today: Published: 28 November, 2010, 08:09



"An RT crew was locked up in a US jail for 32 hours after they covered a rally near the so-called “school of assassins” in the state of Georgia.

Correspondent Kaelyn Forde called the handling “brutal” and international organizations condemned use of police violence against members of the press. But despite all the outrage, the mainstream media has remained silent over the incident.

It started off as a peaceful rally outside a US training camp for Latin American military and police officers. What followed this nonviolent protest caught everyone by surprise: dozens were arrested. Police targeted journalists along with the activists.

Among those arrested were RT correspondent Kaelyn Forde and RT cameraman Jon Conway, both there on assignment covering the protest that brought together thousands of people.

“They put the handcuffs so tight that I couldn’t move my fingers,” Kaelyn told RT when she was released. “I asked the officer to please remove the handcuffs – these plastic handcuffs – and at least to put one on that would be a little bit looser. He took out a hunting knife, and that’s actually part of the reason that I have cuts on my wrist.”

For hours Kaelyn did not have a clue what the charges against her were.

“We asked on the bus what we were being charged with, and one of the sheriffs said: ‘Don’t worry, no charge, the ride is free…’ We were taken to the county jail and ended up spending 32 hours there,” the RT correspondent continued.

Tammi Ramirez, a student who was there to protest, tells a similar story:

“I kept asking them: ‘What did I do?Tell me my rights. Tell me why I’m getting arrested.’ I never got an answer from them,” she said.

Every year thousands of people gather at the gates of the training camp, dubbed the “School of Assassins,” calling for its closure.

Officially they are to train Latin American military and police. The protestors claim it has schooled many of Latin America’s most notorious torturers, mass murderers and dictators.

Despite anger at the establishment, violence has never marred the protests, so why the mass arrests?

“We feel like the message was: ‘Look, we don’t want you to be here… we’re going to make it dangerous, to make you think twice to even show up,” explained Lisa Sullivan, one of the protestors.

Despite the outcry from many at the rally that their rights to freedom of speech and assembly were trampled upon, it is not a story that has caught the eye of the US media."

Press arrested at SOA (http://rt.com/news/us-tightlipped-freedom-speech/)

Funny, I haven't seen this on CNN or Fox......surely this must be misinformation. I even used quotation marks this time.

Them today, you tomorrow....for public safety/national security of course.

Borisio
November 28, 2010, 18:26
Imagine a school dedicated to teaching torture, to educating soldiers on how to rape and murder American nuns and assassinate Salvadoran priests; an institution whose mission is to demonstrate how to ‘disappear’ innocent civilians with total impunity.

Do the communists and their supporters deserve something else? For killing, raping, etc. in millions, read the socialist countries history.

Stranger
November 28, 2010, 18:50
Originally posted by the gman

... not once in my entire life have I EVER been fired.


Oh, of course. You were downsized for being a philandering POS. That is totally different from being fired. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by the gman


By failing to disagree with the comments he posted, he, by default, agrees with them.


:rofl: Yeah, whatever dumbshit!

the gman
November 28, 2010, 19:27
Originally posted by Stranger


Oh, of course. You were downsized for being a philandering POS. That is totally different from being fired. :rolleyes:



:rofl: Yeah, whatever dumbshit!

More lies from the liar in chief.:rolleyes: Never been 'down sized' either fuckwit but then you wouldn't know the truth if it came up & bit you on your spotty little arse. Any job I have had I have left on my own volition & by MY choice. If you think you know anything, spill it & stop dancing douchebag. Put up or shut the fcuk up.

I have nothing to hide so are you gonna dance or what? Tell you what, why don't you man up for real & post what you think you know? Here's the deal: if you post other people's lies & I prove they are lies, you get to leave this board never to return. If you think that you can prove otherwise, I'll leave the FAL Files forever. Again, time to put up or shut the fcuk up as I tire of your innuendo, lies & bullshit.

Best part of you ran down your momma's leg & that wasn't too long ago was it? Considering that by your own admission you were a spotty teenager when you registered here..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

wyatt earp
November 28, 2010, 21:09
Damn gman...the meds...the meds...take the meds.

JasonB
November 28, 2010, 21:27
Originally posted by Borisio


Do the communists and their supporters deserve something else? For killing, raping, etc. in millions, read the socialist countries history.

Show us where the socialist leaders in any country that has been boosted by this training are getting theirs from it.

And while you are it, show us the section of the Constitution that lists supporting foreign countries as a legitimate function of the federal government.

Borisio
November 30, 2010, 21:38
Originally posted by JasonB


Show us where the socialist leaders in any country that has been boosted by this training are getting theirs from it.

And while you are it, show us the section of the Constitution that lists supporting foreign countries as a legitimate function of the federal government.

I don't care what the Constitution lists or not. From personal experience I know very well the good communist is the dead communist. It's one thing to watch Holywood movies and another thing is to live there.

JasonB
November 30, 2010, 22:10
Originally posted by Borisio


I don't care what the Constitution lists or not.

I notice a lot of that sentiment among FAL Files members.

the gman
November 30, 2010, 23:47
Originally posted by Stranger


Oh, of course. You were downsized for being a philandering POS. That is totally different from being fired. :rolleyes:



:rofl: Yeah, whatever dumbshit!

So come on you chickenshit lying turd, are you going to dance or not?

I know you have read the PM I sent you but as usual, you lie thru your teeth or repeat shit that you've heard from someone else but when called on it, you fold like the coward you really are. Let's take it to DB if you want & let the gloves off?

BTW Earp, you're the one reading & believing Russia today so you might wanna think about taking some meds or cutting back, it helps with the delusion that anything that comes out of there for public consumption that paints the USA in a bad light is 'unbiased'.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

wyatt earp
December 01, 2010, 21:03
gman...come on dude...don't you think it's time to let this thing go. I try to get my info from multiple sources then separate the meat from the bones.

All web sites run by governments have an agenda....read broadly and connect the dots. In addition to the above I frequently trace the server location to ensure it's actually in the country supposedly running it :wink:

Pistolwiz
December 01, 2010, 21:26
Originally posted by Borisio


I don't care what the Constitution lists or not. From personal experience I know very well the good communist is the dead communist. It's one thing to watch Holywood movies and another thing is to live there.

So....... I guess you don't mind if your friendly neighborhood BATFE Agent comes right over and confiscates your possessions. Including your guns. Arrests you and your entire family on made up charges and didn't allow you to contact anybody until he/she decides what is to become of you.

Amongst many other things. This is what the constitution provides you. It is what is "listed" as your rights. Protection from a tyrannical government.

Start thinking man.......

You want to kill communists who would take your rights away. But your freely giving them up anyway to fight him. Commie wins either way. If you don't care what the constitution says...... Then what does that make you?

JasonB
December 01, 2010, 21:33
Originally posted by Pistolwiz


If you don't care what the constitution says...... Then what does that make you?

A republican or a democrat are 2 possibilities. :D

zonkertx
December 01, 2010, 21:37
The 10th Amendment speaks rather clearly, although it has unfortunately been ignored.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

IOW, If it's not listed in the Constitution, the fedgov can't do it. Might be a Good Thing (tm) for all to know how things are supposed to work.

Borisio
December 02, 2010, 20:33
So....... I guess you don't mind if your friendly neighborhood BATFE Agent comes right over and confiscates your possessions. Including your guns. Arrests you and your entire family on made up charges and didn't allow you to contact anybody until he/she decides what is to become of you.

Amongst many other things. This is what the constitution provides you. It is what is "listed" as your rights. Protection from a tyrannical government.

Start thinking man.......

You want to kill communists who would take your rights away. But your freely giving them up anyway to fight him. Commie wins either way. If you don't care what the constitution says...... Then what does that make you?

Our elected reps, presidents, etc use the Constitution as a toilet paper. That's what I mean. We celebrate a mass murderer (Abe Lincoln), we had both Roosvelts screwing up this country, W.Wilson giving us the IRS, Bush Sr destroying the S&Ls and the bank system, and the rest of the chain of anti US presidents, including the current impostor. The Constitution doesn't protect us any more. FBI, ATF, Homeland Security, TSA and the rest of the alphabet departments can do with us whatever they want. I escaped 26 years ago from communist country and I see very well where are we going.

Pistolwiz
December 03, 2010, 00:35
Originally posted by Borisio


Our elected reps, presidents, etc use the Constitution as a toilet paper. That's what I mean. We celebrate a mass murderer (Abe Lincoln), we had both Rooservelts screwing up this country, W.Wilson giving us the IRS, Bush Sr destroying the S&Ls and the bank system, and the rest of the chain of anti US presidents, including the current impostor. The Constitution doesn't protect us any more. FBI, ATF, Homeland Security, TSA and the rest of the alphabet departments can do with us whatever they want. I escaped 26 years ago from communist country and I see very well where are we going.


LIB! Good for you sir! Went from the frying pan into the fire though it seems...... You have my empathy there for sure. You should see it better than most. :whiskey:




We have become our own enemies. By this I mean that the US fought communism and fascism and we end up becoming what we were fighting in the first place. Our own special breed of tyranny. Communism, socialism, corporatism, fascism......

All ends up the same. Centralized power and despotism is the final result.

But to many around here it still seems that it's all just some big mistake...........

Varangian
December 03, 2010, 09:14
I was an instructor at the SOA from 1999 to 2001.

No torture was taught. Instruction in Human Rights was mandatory in every course. Human Rights was integrated into every exercise.

What graduates do after returning to their countries from SOA is what they were doing before they went to SOA. Violations of Human Rights are a product of their own cultures and not anything they learned from us.

Varangian
December 03, 2010, 09:20
Originally posted by JasonB

And while you are it, show us the section of the Constitution that lists supporting foreign countries as a legitimate function of the federal government.

Article II, Section 2:

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties

Treaties between countries are for mutual benefit; thus, the President has the Constitutional power to act in the benefit of other countries. ITRA comes to mind, in the case of the SOA.

Has anyone mentioned you're a d1p$h1t?

Pistolwiz
December 03, 2010, 09:57
Originally posted by Varangian


Article II, Section 2:



Treaties between countries are for mutual benefit; thus, the President has the Constitutional power to act in the benefit of other countries. ITRA comes to mind, in the case of the SOA.

Has anyone mentioned you're a d1p$h1t?

Treaties were never meant to "overrule" the constitution. If it were so....... Then our rights would have been washed away in treaties decades ago. The fedgov wants you to think that the constitution can be changed by a treaty with a foreign nation. It cannot. Show me where in the constitution that treaty law can override the constitution itself......

Here's the entire article 2 section 2. Where does it say that treaties can over ride the constitution itself? I guess you didn't teach constitutional courses........ Just a guess.

Section 2 - Civilian Power over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session."

Varangian
December 03, 2010, 18:17
Originally posted by Pistolwiz


Treaties were never meant to "overrule" the constitution. If it were so....... Then our rights would have been washed away in treaties decades ago. The fedgov wants you to think that the constitution can be changed by a treaty with a foreign nation. It cannot. Show me where in the constitution that treaty law can override the constitution itself......

That wasn't his question...he wanted to know where in the Constitution it says that supporting foreign countries is a function of the Federal government, and so I spoon-fed him his answer.

But, since you're also apparently a d1p$h1t, I'll spoon-feed you as well. Try reading Article VI, Clause 2. Emphasis mine:
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

Which means that treaties don't overrule the Constitution, they are co-equal with it, and equally supreme. If there are any conflicts between the two, then presumably the Supreme Court would have to sort it out.

Figure which way that will go.

JasonB
December 03, 2010, 18:26
Originally posted by Varangian
I was an instructor at the SOA from 1999 to 2001.

No torture was taught. Instruction in Human Rights was mandatory in every course. Human Rights was integrated into every exercise.

What graduates do after returning to their countries from SOA is what they were doing before they went to SOA. Violations of Human Rights are a product of their own cultures and not anything they learned from us.

You just taught them ways to be more efficient while doing it. Did you ever want to go to their country and see them in action/lend a hand with what they were doing?

JasonB
December 03, 2010, 18:29
Originally posted by Varangian


Article II, Section 2:



Treaties between countries are for mutual benefit; thus, the President has the Constitutional power to act in the benefit of other countries. ITRA comes to mind, in the case of the SOA.

Has anyone mentioned you're a d1p$h1t?

Not seeing the mutual benefit of sending people back to be more efficient at raping, robbing, and pillaging. Also, don't see anything in the Constitution about reallocating wealth via treaty or anything else. Could the president enter in to an agreement to kidnap US citizens and ship them to the middle east for use as sex slaves under the treaty banner?

Varangian
December 04, 2010, 00:07
Originally posted by JasonB


You just taught them ways to be more efficient while doing it. Did you ever want to go to their country and see them in action/lend a hand with what they were doing?

I had to stop and count...I've spent a total of 16 years and a few months going to their countries and seeing them in action and lending a hand.

I saw some smacks to the head and boots to the ass when someone decided to be a problem, but systematic abuse or torture? Nope. And if I had, I would have been legally, morally, ethically, and professionally bound to stop it and report it.

The people stirring up shit against SOA are the same ones that supported Marxist terrorism for the last four decades. Liberation theology is pure evil, and I'm sorry your mind is weak enough to get sucked into it.

Varangian
December 04, 2010, 00:08
Originally posted by JasonB


Not seeing the mutual benefit of sending people back to be more efficient at raping, robbing, and pillaging. Also, don't see anything in the Constitution about reallocating wealth via treaty or anything else. Could the president enter in to an agreement to kidnap US citizens and ship them to the middle east for use as sex slaves under the treaty banner?

With the advice and consent of the Senate...yes. Sorry, it's in the Constitution.

Pistolwiz
December 04, 2010, 02:24
Originally posted by Varangian


That wasn't his question...he wanted to know where in the Constitution it says that supporting foreign countries is a function of the Federal government, and so I spoon-fed him his answer.

But, since you're also apparently a d1p$h1t, I'll spoon-feed you as well. Try reading Article VI, Clause 2. Emphasis mine:


Which means that treaties don't overrule the Constitution, they are co-equal with it, and equally supreme. If there are any conflicts between the two, then presumably the Supreme Court would have to sort it out.

Figure which way that will go.

"any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."

That is the key phrase. Is it not?

How does the constitution or laws of any state have to do with the federal constitution itself? A treaty can override state laws and constitutions. But not the Federal constitution.

Next thing you'll tell me is that there is a "General Welfare Clause'" :rofl:

So I am a dipshit? You haven't the slightest idea about anything about me and you call me names? Your own words show you to be childish and immature. You have swallowed the elitest agenda and parrot it by trying to force down the American peoples throats a non fact. The non fact being that treaties DO NOT override the federal constitution. Your own quote proves it from Article VI section 2.

You also state that: "The people stirring up shit against SOA are the same ones that supported Marxist terrorism for the last four decades."

You haven't the slightest idea. Similar to ivory tower types. Your too close to the problem and too far away from what the people think. I served this country 8 years in the USAF. Honorably discharged. I swore to protect and defend the constitution of the United States from all enemies. Foreign and DOMESTIC. I wholeheartedly disagree with spending any amount of money on anything other than what the constitution allows the fedgov to do. If that makes me a Marxist in your little black book. Then so be it.

The federal government is WAY outside the constitution and people like you will defend those that are trying to destroy it to your own detriment.

You have yet to show me where in the constitution it is allowed for the fedgov to send ANY money outside the USA for any reason whatsoever. Please show us all and give us our lesson in JBT constitutional translation. Please do........

Pistolwiz
December 04, 2010, 03:02
The 9th and 10th amendments pretty much wrap this up. No treaty can disparage rights retained by the people. It is up to us to retain those rights whatever they may be. The 10th sums it up. The fedgov CANNOT (Should not) operate outside the powers granted in the constitution. So how can a treaty make the fedgov or state goves do anything outside the US constitution? Well....If they were operating within the constitution....they can't.

Oh...... And ArticleVI Section 2 is clear on the Judges being "Judges in every state" as in "State Judges". Not Federal benches.

I will repeat. No treaty can abrogate or disparage any rights of the people or allow the fedgov or state govs to operate outside the federal constitution. Period. http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1732036

Of course the exception being when the words are twisted and turned to make it look like the constitution says or allows something it clearly doesn't do. Funny how the liberals twist it up their way to get what they want. And Neocons twist it up to get it to show what they want. Rather than just read the damn thing and comprehend the words as they are. :rolleyes:

Pistolwiz
December 04, 2010, 03:23
Ya know..... Read my sig line:

"I am concerned for the security of our great nation, not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within." --General Douglas MacArthur

Are you helping those insidious forces? Or trying to hinder them?

If somebody is exercising their free will, god given and constitutionally protected right to disagree with the fedgov and speak out about it. They are a Marxist?

If somebody reads the constitution and sees that the fedgov is not allowed to do something because it is not a power granted to the fedgov by the constitution. And they speak out. Are they a communist?

I thought communists wanted to destroy the constitution?

Those that beat their chests and decry that the fedgov can do pretty much what it wants as long as it is OK with them........ Are only helping to destroy what they swore an oath to protect and defend with their lives.
If you swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution...... Why are you not defending it rather than parroting the elitist BS designed to subvert it?

WAKE UP!!!!!!!!! :love: :fal: :tongue: :biggrin:

JasonB
December 04, 2010, 07:15
Originally posted by Varangian


With the advice and consent of the Senate...yes. Sorry, it's in the Constitution.

Where does it say in the Constitution that the federal government has the power to trade any of us off as slaves for any purpose?

Do keep talking, it is refreshing to see members of the military stating they believe it is fine for the federal government to violate the rights of the citizenry via simple majority votes. This should come in handy the next time we hear the military and police of the country would never support confiscation of firearms because it would violate their oath.

Varangian
December 04, 2010, 14:18
Originally posted by Pistolwiz

So I am a dipshit?
Pretty much. You're one of those who like to play word games when the Constitution says something you don't agree with, and then screech from the branches when someone else does the same with parts you do agree with.

Typical shithouse lawyer hypocrite.
The non fact being that treaties DO NOT override the federal constitution.
I'll let that stand on its own as a monument to Tard Engrish. I think you meant the opposite of what you typed, but only the gerbils running around between your ears know what you were trying to say.

And I said specifically that treaties do not override the Constitution; they are co-equal with it, it's there in black-and-white for your gerbils to translate. If there is a conflict between the Constitution, laws enacted pursuant to the Constitution, and/or treaties, then the SC gets to referee, as it has in the past.

Apparently your gerbils are overworked and tire easily, since you had to divide your ramblings into several posts. But your argument that the 10A trumps treaties has already been shot to Hell. When your gerbils come back from their smoke break, you might want to read Missouri v. Holland.
You also state that: "The people stirring up shit against SOA are the same ones that supported Marxist terrorism for the last four decades."

You haven't the slightest idea. Similar to ivory tower types. Your too close to the problem and too far away from what the people think. I served this country 8 years in the USAF. Honorably discharged. I swore to protect and defend the constitution of the United States from all enemies. Foreign and DOMESTIC. I wholeheartedly disagree with spending any amount of money on anything other than what the constitution allows the fedgov to do. If that makes me a Marxist in your little black book. Then so be it.
I think I have a little more than an idea. I've worked for and with the SOA for nearly two decades; I've trained the soldiers, I've advised their militaries. Guatemala, El Salvador, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, Venezuela...been there, done that.

Which, as a member of the Air Force, we know you certainly didn't. So the one out of his depth here is you, talking shite and showing your ignorant ass, and throwing your piddly little 8 years around. Meet my 25, with nearly 17 of them in Latin America, and I might listen to you. SOA Watch is a Marxist organization, founded by Liberation Theologists, and supported by progressives, communists, and other assorted leftist trash.

Yeah, you're pretty much a d1p$h1t.

L Haney
December 04, 2010, 14:27
Originally posted by Varangian


I think I have a little more than an idea. I've worked for and with the SOA for nearly two decades; I've trained the soldiers, I've advised their militaries. Guatemala, El Salvador, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, Venezuela...been there, done that.


Gotta' ask, as you're closer than me. Was I talkin' out my ass with what I said much earlier in this thread? I got my take from long conversations with people who did what you said you did. I have NO reason to doubt them, I have big reasons to put weight to what they said. Gonna' be funny if I know you.

Lowell

Varangian
December 04, 2010, 14:29
Originally posted by JasonB

Do keep talking, it is refreshing to see members of the military stating they believe it is fine for the federal government to violate the rights of the citizenry via simple majority votes.

The rest of your drivel is below notice, but this one is exceptional for its stupidity, even for you. You sound like those old biddies that come up to me while I'm trying to mind my own business to tell me, "Oh, thank you for our freedom!!!"

I want to choke the living shit out of them.

I do not think we are now involved in any conflict with any external enemy that seriously threatens our sovereignty or our liberty. The threat is from within; every time I go overseas for a while and come back, I find that I've lost more freedom and must pay more taxes.

Why? Because those old biddies sat on their asses while politicians took away our freedoms with simple majority votes and put a bigger shovel in our wallets.

They don't depend on me to protect our freedoms while I'm away...I depend on them. And they have failed me miserably.

That's you in that flock of guineas, pissing away our freedoms at every election. Don't bitch when you get what you voted for.

JasonB
December 04, 2010, 14:34
Originally posted by Varangian


The rest of your drivel is below notice, but this one is exceptional for its stupidity, even for you. You sound like those old biddies that come up to me while I'm trying to mind my own business to tell me, "Oh, thank you for our freedom!!!"

I want to choke the living shit out of them.

I do not think we are now involved in any conflict with any external enemy that seriously threatens our sovereignty or our liberty. The threat is from within; every time I go overseas for a while and come back, I find that I've lost more freedom and must pay more taxes.

Why? Because those old biddies sat on their asses while politicians took away our freedoms with simple majority votes and put a bigger shovel in our wallets.

They don't depend on me to protect our freedoms while I'm away...I depend on them. And they have failed me miserably.

That's you in that flock of guineas, pissing away our freedoms at every election. Don't bitch when you get what you voted for.

Considering there is no way in hell you are old enough to have fought in the revolutionary war you need not worry about me thanking you for any freedoms although I might damn you for playing your role in making sure what those people fought for has been reduced to privileges. At the instant that war was over, the main (maybe the only) threat to liberties has been internal rather than external.

Don't blame me, I didn't vote for anyone who indicated they wanted to take away any freedoms period.

Varangian
December 04, 2010, 14:35
Originally posted by L Haney


Gotta' ask, as you're closer than me. Was I talkin' out my ass with what I said much earlier in this thread?

No, you were tight.

And, as an aside, the huge cost of SOA that the progressive patsies here bitch about? Less than $14M. Can't even buy a single stripped-down Blackhawk helicopter for that.

Varangian
December 04, 2010, 14:36
Originally posted by JasonB


Don't blame me, I didn't vote for anyone who indicated they wanted to take away any freedoms period.

What politician campaigns on taking away freedoms?

But you were all over "making us safer", "spreading the wealth", and "fairness".

L Haney
December 04, 2010, 14:39
I've walked the campus. Ain't exactly posh. You ever been to the Atlantic side of Panama?

Varangian
December 04, 2010, 14:43
Originally posted by L Haney
I've walked the campus. Ain't exactly posh. You ever been to the Atlantic side of Panama?

Yeah, Ft. Sherman many times. I lived in Panama for 3 years.

JasonB
December 04, 2010, 14:50
Originally posted by Varangian


What politician campaigns on taking away freedoms?

McCain and Obama both mentioned their desire to ban firearms while stumping and both voted for the bailouts just weeks before the election so they weren't deceptive on what they wished to do. Which one did you vote for?


Originally posted by Varangian


But you were all over "making us safer",



http://dvc.org.uk/wiggum1.gif

Nope.


Originally posted by Varangian


But you were all over "spreading the wealth"

As mentioned in this thread, I am opposed to foreign aid of any kind. I am also opposed to corporate welfare/crony capitalism/political capitalism/mercantilism and I am also opposed to the only form of welfare conservatives oppose which started in the 1930's, long after various entitlement programs for the advantaged had been running. Any other variations of spreading the wealth that I have missed?




Originally posted by Varangian


But you were all over "fairness".

In terms of what? I don't recall anything fair being mentioned by either of the candidates you likely supported so we need some more details.

L Haney
December 04, 2010, 14:52
Know anything about Amador, (SP) west of the Bridge of the Americas?

Varangian
December 04, 2010, 14:59
Originally posted by L Haney
Know anything about Amador, (SP) west of the Bridge of the Americas?

Amador's on the Atlantic, used to be General Officer housing and golf course, but I hear it's some kind of high-end development now.

L Haney
December 04, 2010, 15:08
Pacific entrance to the canal. Spent 10 days there as a civvie guest not long after the "disagreement". They were still plastering up the bullet holes.

Varangian
December 04, 2010, 15:42
Originally posted by L Haney
Pacific entrance to the canal. Spent 10 days there as a civvie guest not long after the "disagreement". They were still plastering up the bullet holes.

Yes, Pacific. You got me caught up in Googling what became of Ft. San Lorenzo.

Pistolwiz
December 04, 2010, 16:03
Originally posted by Varangian

Pretty much. You're one of those who like to play word games when the Constitution says something you don't agree with, and then screech from the branches when someone else does the same with parts you do agree with.

Typical shithouse lawyer hypocrite.

I'll let that stand on its own as a monument to Tard Engrish. I think you meant the opposite of what you typed, but only the gerbils running around between your ears know what you were trying to say.

And I said specifically that treaties do not override the Constitution; they are co-equal with it, it's there in black-and-white for your gerbils to translate. If there is a conflict between the Constitution, laws enacted pursuant to the Constitution, and/or treaties, then the SC gets to referee, as it has in the past.

Apparently your gerbils are overworked and tire easily, since you had to divide your ramblings into several posts. But your argument that the 10A trumps treaties has already been shot to Hell. When your gerbils come back from their smoke break, you might want to read Missouri v. Holland.

I think I have a little more than an idea. I've worked for and with the SOA for nearly two decades; I've trained the soldiers, I've advised their militaries. Guatemala, El Salvador, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, Venezuela...been there, done that.

Which, as a member of the Air Force, we know you certainly didn't. So the one out of his depth here is you, talking shite and showing your ignorant ass, and throwing your piddly little 8 years around. Meet my 25, with nearly 17 of them in Latin America, and I might listen to you. SOA Watch is a Marxist organization, founded by Liberation Theologists, and supported by progressives, communists, and other assorted leftist trash.

Yeah, you're pretty much a d1p$h1t.

Your showing that you have a vested interest in the way things are.

Your insults show weakness.

The fact that you don't answer questions of the law. With the law. Shows you have no idea except what you were taught. And like all flat earthers. You will stick to what you were taught untill you die. I can't/won't change you. But others reading these posts will be changed. They can see the truth even though you can't.

The constitution does say what it says. Just like you said. But now that you've seen that what you were taught is wrong....... You throw BS. Instead of facts.

Dabs has done the same thing for years. He's much better at it than you are. If your gonna throw insults....At least make them funny. K?

L Haney
December 04, 2010, 16:17
Originally posted by Pistolwiz



The constitution does say what it says.

The constitution does nothing. It is a mute document. It relies on the actions of the citizens for its animation. Some do, some do nothing. That hasn't changed since ink was laid on parchment. Careful who you revile. Words to the wise are heard and measured. Words to fools are wasted breath.

Pistolwiz
December 04, 2010, 17:36
Originally posted by L Haney


The constitution does nothing. It is a mute document. It relies on the actions of the citizens for its animation. Some do, some do nothing. That hasn't changed since ink was laid on parchment. Careful who you revile. Words to the wise are heard and measured. Words to fools are wasted breath.

That sir.... is an undeniable truth. The 9th amendment even specifies what you say: "rights retained by the people." To "retain" them is to defend them from those that want tyranny/mommy state. To retain something is to prevent it from getting away. Rights don't fly away like an unclipped hen. They are taken from those that wish not to defend...err....retain them.

L Haney
December 04, 2010, 17:42
Agreement can exist in the strangest of circumstances. It lessens not from its finding.

Pistolwiz
December 06, 2010, 01:05
Originally posted by L Haney
Agreement can exist in the strangest of circumstances. It lessens not from its finding.

Since your waxing somewhat philosophic.........:shades:

Truth is stranger than fiction.... Anon(?)

People will swallow a huge brick of lies as long as it's covered in sweet things that make it palatable. Rather than taste one little bitter grain of truth. And the truth is most always bitter....

Me.