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renaissance_warrior
November 14, 2010, 16:14
This has GOT to stop! I would be engraged as a parent. That is like child molestation!

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Heat
November 14, 2010, 16:59
I think that little girl has taught us all something very important--THIS is the way we ALL should behave when these thugs violate us--you'd see immiediate reforms in this whacked police state!

John Culver
November 14, 2010, 17:58
what the hell is this 'some sacrifices must be made'?!?!

Thats outrageous. I will NOT sacrifice my rights because some brainless govt fool wants to grope people in the name of 'security'

Heat
November 14, 2010, 19:56
Originally posted by John Culver
what the hell is this 'some sacrifices must be made'?!?!

Thats outrageous. I will NOT sacrifice my rights because some brainless govt fool wants to grope people in the name of 'security'

Thats the slave mentality talking, most people are conditioned to follow orders--like good little slaves

Holdn4aces
November 14, 2010, 20:35
97% of those who responded to this poll (http://blogs.reuters.com/ask/2010/11/12/are-new-security-screenings-affecting-your-decision-to-fly/) say they will be making alternate travel plans. It sort of makes you think of what John Books said in "The Shootist".

"I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."

renaissance_warrior
November 14, 2010, 20:38
Holdn, well said...

John Culver
November 14, 2010, 22:48
Would you object to a full-body scan or pat down at airport security?

CNN Poll

55% say they are fine with it

tis about right 55% of people are idiots

Bama Steve
November 14, 2010, 22:59
Why would a reporter's kid go-off twice in a metal detector anyways.

:wink:

Protocol sux in the face of the obvious idiocy of it but TSA personnel are a make-work-gov-jobs program and enjoy the mindset that comes with staffing it.

ratas calientes
November 14, 2010, 23:40
If someone wants to grope me, they better take me to dinner first.

I'm just sayin'. . . . . . . .

:shades:

deerollman
November 15, 2010, 00:14
Originally posted by John Culver
tis about right 55% of people are idiots

Man, are you ever the optimist...

SWOHFAL
November 15, 2010, 02:55
Originally posted by John Culver
Would you object to a full-body scan or pat down at airport security?

CNN Poll

55% say they are fine with it

tis about right 55% of people are idiots

CNN has a disproportionate number of commies present.

gunplumber
November 15, 2010, 09:17
I don't see a problem with it.

Now, this is in the context of searching passengers. Personally, I believe there should be no searching and everyone who wants to should carry their guns onto the plane, bus, or any other mode of transportation.

But if passengers are going to be searched as a condition of flying, then there can be no "exemptions." Everybody including the crew gets searched the same way.

Seems to me there are some parenting issues here. I suspect that the child has rarely been compelled to do something she doesn't like.

chet
November 15, 2010, 10:04
Methodology on airline security aside, I've seen other people's kids act this way during routine medical and dental procedures, trying on clothes in the store and my favorite, family picture time. Meltdowns happen.

The fact the kid wasn't taking behavioral cues from momma and dad has reverted to reporter with a camera instead of parent with a misbehaving child is very telling.

Is TSA inept? You bet. Do we need better airline security? Yep. It's on us to demand better. This screener obviously has the bedside manner of a horsehoe crab. Good luck finding quality help at TSA pay rates, though.



But equating this type of stuff to "child molestation" won't help your cause when it is clearly not sexual and not predatory.

carguym14
November 15, 2010, 11:33
Originally posted by ratas calientes
If someone wants to grope me, they better take me to dinner first.

I'm just sayin'. . . . . . . .

:shades:




Does McDonalds count? :wink:

ratas calientes
November 15, 2010, 13:24
Originally posted by carguym14





Does McDonalds count? :wink: No. It has to be real food. Even rats don't eat McDonalds.

JasonB
November 15, 2010, 17:46
Originally posted by chet

But equating this type of stuff to "child molestation" won't help your cause when it is clearly not sexual and not predatory.

OK, make good on it. Take a camera along to film yourself, grab someone at random, then run your hand up and down their crotch and tell them it isn't sexual or predatory.

carguym14
November 15, 2010, 17:56
Originally posted by JasonB


OK, make good on it. Take a camera along to film yourself, grab someone at random, then run your hand up and down their crotch and tell them it isn't sexual or predatory.



Does he work for the TSA or the gov?

Cause that's the only way he would get away with that.

Cava3r4
November 15, 2010, 22:05
I've been driving for YEARS now.
ever since 1971 or 72 (whenever they put in metal detectors) I've been stopped due to shrapnel in my body from vietnam. Meanwhile, the tsa waves the arabs ahead of me...after all, we would NOT want to HURT their feelings now would we?
I wrote that very same thing to my Senators Kyle and McCain and my congressman Mitchell.
I asked them "why is is okay to stop me for 40+ years but it is NOT okay to stop some arab?"
I have yet to receive an answer from any of them.
Bob

SWOHFAL
November 15, 2010, 22:47
Originally posted by Cava3r4
I've been driving for YEARS now.
ever since 1971 or 72 (whenever they put in metal detectors) I've been stopped due to shrapnel in my body from vietnam. Meanwhile, the tsa waves the arabs ahead of me...after all, we would NOT want to HURT their feelings now would we?
I wrote that very same thing to my Senators Kyle and McCain and my congressman Mitchell.
I asked them "why is is okay to stop me for 40+ years but it is NOT okay to stop some arab?"
I have yet to receive an answer from any of them.
Bob

IOW, Go F--- Yourself.

chet
November 16, 2010, 00:10
Originally posted by JasonB


OK, make good on it. Take a camera along to film yourself, grab someone at random, then run your hand up and down their crotch and tell them it isn't sexual or predatory.

You probably consider yourself a rational guy. Why you would trot this out, I dunno.

If we ran your tired little rabbit down, that would mean every corrections officer and a good portion of US law enforcement are sexual predators as well since they conduct these types of searches too. Is that true? Well, gee Wally, that's not true. They are doing a job.

So the question is whether or not random manual searches (including ticklish parts) should be a part of a TSA screeners job. And, of course, we all agree it's not.

So why is the technique being used? Well, because one of the basic tools of police work - profiling - suddenly has a bad name in our little PC world. Now, we have to pretend that the waddling, quacking birds with webbed feet do not appear to be ducks to us and instead we must find some other reason to positively ID them. We must also spend copious amounts of time checking owls and chickens even though we know they aren't ducks the moment we saw them. Once this "methodology" is engrained, we can never, ever train our replacements to ID ducks because we can't do it ourselves and our institution becomes a bureaucratic nightmare that could not ID a duck unless we take a DNA sample.

Stupid, yes. But it is because pinheads in this country refuse to believe that words, appearances, and actions have meaning. Instead, we really on emotion, much like you are doing now, Jason. And since you feel that simply saying "random manual searches are inefficient and ineffective " is not enough, instead you (and others) have to trot out memes like sexual molestation that have absolutely no bearing on the question at hand to make your case.

You have learned the object lesson well from the liberal left: frame the argument first so your opponent can never be seen as reasonable. Attaching a deviant sexual connotation to something that is so obviously not sexual would thrill the community organizers of the world. The Boy Scouts of America even changed the name of the classic merit badge "Stalking" to the much more benign "Tracking" for this very reason!

The harm in making your point like this is that you confuse the public as to what molestation actually is so that now every doctor, every tailor, every teacher that might touch someone in the course of their duties now becomes a predator in their eyes. MASSIVE institutionalized protectionism (of the institution not the victim) now becomes standard. Everything is dumbed down to the lowest common denominator and zero critical thinking is required so no attorney anywhere can mischaracterize any action and everyone can point the finger at their superiors.

And thus, organizations like TSA commit to inefficient and ineffective systems because they are more concerned with public perception and lawsuits than actually stopping a terrorist.

chet
November 16, 2010, 00:38
And btw, the solution to airport security is fairly simple:

1. Dismantle the national framework and replace it with local sworn officers working in their local airports. (Or- in my libertarian world only- sell all the airports to corporations and privatize the security).

2. Move the screen to the gates themselves.

3. Put 40% of the officers in plain clothes, 40% in uniforms, and 20% in electronic surveillance.

4. Remove all restrictions on profiling of all types. Allow officers full discretion to 'field interview' anyone within the airport for any reason. Allow officers to use critical thinking, experience, and history to formulate their opinions.

5. Award large bounties to officers who actually thwart terrorist activity or identify known terrorists in the airport. Promote them and allow them to train other officers.



Yes, it is likely that middle easterners and muslims may get their feelings hurt in an atmosphere of common sense profiling by law enforcement. I would encourage them to cry to Allah at the new 9//11 mosque which was constructed specifically for this purpose. Conversely, they may make overt displays of patriotism or volunteer for military service en bloc like the Americans with Japanese heritage did who faced FAR stiffer prejudice than muslims have faced and yet still managed to help their country win:

http://asiasociety.org/files/iamanamerican.png
http://media.discovernikkei.org/articles/2482/crossroad.jpg

Why have the muslims in the US not responded in a like manner? Easy. We have not forced them to choose where their loyalty lies. Instead, we have encouraged them to remain hidden and subject to the same random checks as the rest of us while we wring our hands over phantom "molesters".

JasonB
November 16, 2010, 05:17
Originally posted by chet



If we ran your tired little rabbit down, that would mean every corrections officer and a good portion of US law enforcement are sexual predators as well since they conduct these types of searches too. Is that true? Well, gee Wally, that's not true. They are doing a job.



Kinda figured this would happen. What crime had the 3 year old committed and/or was reasonably suspected of?

As for the rest, in the time it took me to type this, how much contraband moved freely over the southern border with no interest in stopping it? There are numerous other issues that are similar (such as admitting the desire for more and more control years before any of this kicked off and the simple fact we funded ever group/country at some point that we have been fighting in recent years), but why might paying attention to that detail make someone doubtful of the intent in this case?

JasonB
November 16, 2010, 05:25
Originally posted by chet
5. Award large bounties to officers who actually thwart terrorist activity or identify known terrorists in the airport. Promote them and allow them to train other officers.


When you catch them making false arrests on this one what punishment do they get?

chet
November 16, 2010, 08:48
Originally posted by JasonB


Kinda figured this would happen. What crime had the 3 year old committed and/or was reasonably suspected of?


Again, why do you expect me to defend something I disagree with? Do you still think we are on opposite side of this issue? Really?

I disagree with the mischaracterization of random searches as sexual in nature. How much more simple can I state it?

Originally posted by JasonB


As for the rest, in the time it took me to type this, how much contraband moved freely over the southern border with no interest in stopping it? There are numerous other issues that are similar (such as admitting the desire for more and more control years before any of this kicked off and the simple fact we funded ever group/country at some point that we have been fighting in recent years), but why might paying attention to that detail make someone doubtful of the intent in this case?

Interpreted, this means: "I cannot offer further on the subject at hand so I have decided to change the subject."

As for "false arrest". Please. There are volumes of juris prudence on PC,search, arrest, detention, and all the rest. Officers would be subject to all the same constraints that they are on the other side of the airport door. When law enforcement is localized, the officers and their superiors are accountable to the people they protect and live amongst. Why was that not evident to you?

gunplumber
November 16, 2010, 09:39
ROPers tie explosives to their children and sew it in their dogs.

If I was attempting to smuggle something, I'd stick it where I thought it least likely to be found. A kid's diapers (dirty = better) sound like a reasonable place to stash my heroin, explosives or whatever because I know there is a resistance of the typical American to look.

American's are entirely too sacrosanct about the body. I totally agree with Chet on this one. A search that does not include the crotch and ass crack and between/under a woman's breasts isn't a very effective search. That's like tearing a room apart but deliberately NOT Looking under the bed. Because it might offend someone?

Remember that video of the "Nazi" cops searching a woman at a stop? It was you tubed as "molestation" when it was quite clear the cop used the back of his hand and explained each step of what he was doing. I'd argue the ineffectiveness of the back of the hand. Doctors don't palpate with the back of their hands and blind people don't read brail with the backs of their hands - why not?

I think the FBS is an effective way to scan someone. If they don't like it, then a pat-down search of the whole body. Or just post sighs "we won't look in your genital region".

Americans could influence the DHL in one instant. The moment the American people en masse refuse to fly unless a, b, and c, happen. They will happen. But most Americans will put their personal "need" before the big picture. There will be no boycott. Nothing will change. We had a shoe bomber and an underwear bomber. Just pray we don't get an asshole bomber.

http://www.warriortalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11822&stc=1&d=1289878692

shlomo
November 16, 2010, 09:50
Originally posted by gunplumber
Just pray we don't get an asshole bomber.

Getting rid of Bill might be worth it.

justashooter
November 16, 2010, 11:38
Originally posted by chet


that would mean every corrections officer and a good portion of US law enforcement are sexual predators

according to a police psychologist i know, a large percentage of them are. he listens to them talk about it on a regular basis, and tries to "re-parent" them, with mixed results.

chet
November 16, 2010, 12:55
Originally posted by justashooter


according to a police psychologist i know, a large percentage of them are. he listens to them talk about it on a regular basis, and tries to "re-parent" them, with mixed results.

Actually, your psychologist acquaintance has shown that he/she is a deeply flawed individual by passing on private and incomplete patient information which he knew would mislead you---unless of course you are going to link to some statistical info that would back this comment up. You're not though, huh?

If he was trying to be clear, he would have quantified the total number of officers in the departments he serves versus the total number of sexual predators he has treated from those departments. He would also explain how those people are no longer sworn officers due to his diagnosis. Since he didn't, you should have known he/she was full of crap. But, you swallowed it hook line and sinker instead. justashooter-not a finicky eater. Check.

The most telling comment is the re-parent thing: the fact that your acquaintance views himself not as a doctor but as the "parent" of adult sexual predators leads me to think he should strongly consider surrendering his license and letting his peers have a crack at shrinking his skull. The fact that pedophilia is transgenerational is more than a little ironic here. This is not a dude I would engage in idle conversation if I was you.

StarPD
November 16, 2010, 17:09
Actually, a smuggler of some sort WAS caught with it in his anus. IIRC, it WAS explosives. I don't think I'd want to be the guy who found it.

jdluton
November 16, 2010, 17:35
Originally posted by gunplumber



American's are entirely too sacrosanct about the body. I totally agree with Chet on this one. A search that does not include the crotch and ass crack and between/under a woman's breasts isn't a very effective search.

http://www.warriortalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11822&stc=1&d=1289878692

Good point about said search being ineffective.... but. What reasonable suspicion was given to begin a search in the first place?

Would American's be accused of being too sacrosanct about their homes if the TSA were to demand we let them in to search and "make sure" we were not dangerous?

gunplumber
November 16, 2010, 17:59
Originally posted by jdluton


Good point about said search being ineffective.... but. What reasonable suspicion was given to begin a search in the first place?

Would American's be accused of being too sacrosanct about their homes if the TSA were to demand we let them in to search and "make sure" we were not dangerous?

I don't think a search prior to engaging in a voluntary activity is the same as being secure in one's home/person against unreasonable search.

I recognize that there is some gray area in an airport which is a part-public, part private, part government facility. I do not support stopping people on the street and instituting a Terry search without PC or RS.

You are not required to enter an airport.

Heat
November 16, 2010, 18:59
Originally posted by gunplumber


I don't think a search prior to engaging in a voluntary activity is the same as being secure in one's home/person against unreasonable search.

I recognize that there is some gray area in an airport which is a part-public, part private, part government facility. I do not support stopping people on the street and instituting a Terry search without PC or RS.

You are not required to enter an airport.

I think this is setting a precedent for them..they push and push and see how far they can go and then when and if there is public outcry they slow down or stop..temporarily..they they start going again! Feeling up children, nuns, women--xraying us as well is just way over the line..I'll bet they havent found a damn thing either.Its all part of conditioning us to be more and more slave like--I dont think searching us they way they do has a damn thing to do with safety, it's about making us more slave/sheep-like..I dont trust these mothafukers as far as I can throw them--fed govt and all their little depts of this and that are nothing but tyrants in the making

gunplumber
November 16, 2010, 19:15
I agree - it is part of conditioning the populace and creating "make-work" government jobs.

I'm just saying that if you accept that passengers entering an aircraft should be searched, then whether one is a child, a nun, or an imam shouldn't make a damn bit of difference in the method and extent of the search. It should be an emotionless, by-the-numbers routine

Now of course, I'd feel a lot safer if my fellow passengers were bringing AKs (ok, maybe not a CAI AK) on board and have been on charter flights where I had to pick up my M60 every time the beverage cart went by, because it was blocking the isle. Nobody was hijacked.

Or let the airlines decide what their security policies will be and let the free market determine which policy the flying customers like.

I suspect, it will remain "what's cheapest?" rather than who provides the service that best matches a customer's philosophy.

While I am all for profiling, I doubt those dolts working for the TSA are perceptive enough to read people. Combine that with a common fear of flying creating high anxiety in travelers, it would be easy to misinterpret body language.

alant
November 16, 2010, 20:11
How many terrorists have been caught going thru airport security? How many explosive devices have been found by X-raying carry on bags and shoes? None that I've heard of. TSA wouldn't be shy about taking credit.

If there were as many suicide minded terrorists as we seem to be afraid of, and they have access to explosive, with knowledge of how to best apply them, why aren't they:

- waiting until the airport is busy
- straping on their suicide vest
- detonating themselves in the middle of the security line (before they go thru the checkpoint)

MOST of what TSA does is security theater - it gives the uninformed public a false sense of security so they keep flying. In reality there are damned few terrorists that get as far as an American airport - approaching zero.

Could it be the terrorists WANT us to continue the security theater act by TSA? They want us to go broke and become divided because of obsessive security. We are following their plan.

daschnoz
November 16, 2010, 20:43
Has anyone thought of this....

1. Fed.gov puts these outrageous security procedures in place.
2. People stop flying because we choose to not be molested.
3. Airlines start to go bankrupt.
4. Fed.gov steps in with a bail out and now owns the "commercial" airlines in addition to the car manufacturers.

This administration doesn't do something unless the end result is more power for fed.gov.

2012 can't get here fast enough.

Bama Steve
November 16, 2010, 20:45
1. PROFILE - Vigorously - make any Islamic leaning/muslim/rag-head dislike traveling anywhere in the Western hemisphere regardless of their citizenship/national origin/etc - profile based upon skin color, beards, clothing, behavior, religion, activity, associations - anything that makes it hard to be or support Islamic fundamentalist extremism. Crush their culture so they will police their own garbage - they KNOW who is doing it but are acquiescent to the behavior - this must stop and all pressure must be applied to cease this bleeding. (1st-aid - 101).

2. See # 1 above.

3. See # 2 above.

4. Contact your reps with this message.

5. Contact your reps with this message.

6. If you disagree - go find another place to live or see # 4 above.

7. Vote well and stay in contact with your reps to keep them aware that they are being watched - do not let the pressure off-of this bunch, ever.

Now, Go have a beer and chill-out.

:biggrin:

carguym14
November 16, 2010, 20:48
Originally posted by alant
How many terrorists have been caught going thru airport security? How many explosive devices have been found by X-raying carry on bags and shoes? None that I've heard of. TSA wouldn't be shy about taking credit.

If there were as many suicide minded terrorists as we seem to be afraid of, and they have access to explosive, with knowledge of how to best apply them, why aren't they:

- waiting until the airport is busy
- straping on their suicide vest
- detonating themselves in the middle of the security line (before they go thru the checkpoint)

MOST of what TSA does is security theater - it gives the uninformed public a false sense of security so they keep flying. In reality there are damned few terrorists that get as far as an American airport - approaching zero.

Could it be the terrorists WANT us to continue the security theater act by TSA? They want us to go broke and become divided because of obsessive security. We are following their plan.


Osama has to be laughing his ass off.

A suicide vest wearing tango doesn't even have to go to the airport-holidays are coming up.Nice crowded mall and you would kiss retail sales goodbye as everyone would be afraid to go out.Or steal a fuel tanker truck and crash it into a Wal Mart and blow themselves up.Or shoot up a mall full of people with automatic weapons somehow smuggled across from Mexico.Or steal a small plane,pack it full of explosives,and crash it into a large plane taking off near a city.

Anything like these happen and you'll see TSA at malls,large stores,major highways,etc...

I agree the false sense of security does nothing but condition people for the next round of restrictions coming our way.

alant
November 16, 2010, 21:20
Or 5 guys with AKs go to 5 different elementary schools in 5 different states. Might as well close down all schools until they can be made secure.

Or mad cow disease is brought to cattle shows in Texas and Montana, distributed via injection and in due time found (perhaps a tip to USDA). Beef, what's not for dinner. Price of chicken and pork skyrocket. McDonalds goes out of business. Cololnel Sanders makes General!

Or a couple of airliners are brought down by shoulder fired SAMs smuggled across our southern border. What's TSA gonna do 'bout THAT?

Yeah, it takes little imagination once you've got operatives inside the country.

Bama Steve
November 16, 2010, 21:23
Alant - What was your point?

carguym14
November 16, 2010, 21:27
I see his point as this is all a dog and pony show (bread and circuses)-something to make the public think they are doing something.

In reality,if they want to hit us again,they can easily.Manhandling old women and little kids does nothing to make us safre.

But hey,look at all the jobs they created!!

JasonB
November 16, 2010, 21:34
Originally posted by chet


Interpreted, this means: "I cannot offer further on the subject at hand so I have decided to change the subject."

Noticing the fact that the South American border is wide open and the fact we have openly funded the very same people we are fighting is the same subject.


Originally posted by chet

As for "false arrest". Please. There are volumes of juris prudence on PC,search, arrest, detention, and all the rest. Officers would be subject to all the same constraints that they are on the other side of the airport door. When law enforcement is localized, the officers and their superiors are accountable to the people they protect and live amongst. Why was that not evident to you?

Probably because there are news stories daily about police who violate the laws they enforce on every one else not getting punished for their offenses. Toss in a monetary award and that crap will sky rocket.

JasonB
November 16, 2010, 21:38
Originally posted by gunplumber


I don't think a search prior to engaging in a voluntary activity is the same as being secure in one's home/person against unreasonable search.

I recognize that there is some gray area in an airport which is a part-public, part private, part government facility. I do not support stopping people on the street and instituting a Terry search without PC or RS.

You are not required to enter an airport.

Give it time. There is an ever growing number of things that require jumping through hoops first. After all (according to many,) you have no right to travel or do other things unless it is enumerated.

gates
November 16, 2010, 21:40
Mark (GP) - what if what they are doing is fuking pointless - any tango worth a shit is going to cram a pound of semtex up his ass - you gonna be ok with body cavity searches before jumping a domestic commercial flight? fuk no you aren't - the Israelis seem to have a pretty good system - why don't we give it a whirl? I'd be VERY VERY interested in who makes those backscatter machines and WHO in congress has an interest in seeing them implimented nationwide - thats got to be a hell of a profitable deal if you are "lucky" enough to score it...

JasonB
November 16, 2010, 21:46
Originally posted by gates
I'd be VERY VERY interested in who makes those backscatter machines and WHO in congress has an interest in seeing them implimented nationwide - thats got to be a hell of a profitable deal if you are "lucky" enough to score it...

While I can't stand him after his support for semi-auto bans, Michael Savage did have some details on that racket. Michael Chertoff and Alfonse D'Amato were mentioned.

tuck0411
November 16, 2010, 21:47
Yep, what Car said. And it's not about making us safe, it's about making money:
http://gizmodo.com/5689759/tsa-full+body-scanners-protecting-passengers-or-padding-pockets

You can pretty much bet the plan is to put these scanners everywhere they can get away with it, in the same way remotely controlled security cameras are showing up everywhere. If anyone's being made safe by this kind of thing, it's the powers that be.

gates
November 16, 2010, 22:32
It's about time guys.

gauraprema
November 17, 2010, 01:21
It does seem very silly to only give the impression that the air travel industry is what is unsafe.The soviets had and may still have people here for many years.As you say its not too hard for a real terrorist to arm themselves with semtex or sams or almost anything needed for a actual attack on US soil.They drove a truck into the marine barracks in berut and that was pretty effective.They if they wantred or had the ability to do so could just as easy do the same here.It is not hard to get high explosives in this country if you have money or a connection with cartels.Already the ms13 guys are training in this country with auto's as well as stolen explosives from jobsites.But to put you hand down a 3 year old girls clothes was once considered unthinkable in the USA but now we grumble a bit but what are or can we do?Are there any citizens left who would stand against the fedgov and say" no more"?If there are then find each other and work together in the best way you know how be it under or above ground.I remember always having a rifle in the back window of our truck and now if you do that you may be pulled over and arrested or have it confiscated.It is the people who actually have the power and not only by voting but by striking boycotting and organising larger groups to do the same.Many condemned the tea party but at least they are doing something.Personally I like when in the book the turner diaries when they were few but stood against many,Im not to into the whole theme of the book but in it you can see what can be done with a single engine plane.With all the shows like 24 and all the alerts and almost bombings they report it seems they are pushing folks to take valium just to get through the day.Even the japs wouldnt invade the USA as they knew the people were armed and would fight but would we now?Some would for sure but it seems that something dark is moving the fedgov away from the godly nature of the countries origin to the place of fear which leads to panic then to insanity.Nowadays everyone is being told they need some kind of pill.We are under attack but from our own system.I will take shelter in the word of god and his saints and hope to find others who will be doing the same with true hearts and deny the fear mongers.Be safe

John Culver
November 17, 2010, 03:11
hope you dont mind them saving the naked pictures of your little girl/boy as it seems some machines have been doing so.

chet
November 17, 2010, 09:36
We can jingle jangle all day about the mechanics of internal building security.

Won't make a difference. The rest of America doesn't care.

If they did, more politicians in fear of losing an election would have run on TSA reform. I am not aware of any man from any party that did.

Almost a decade of ineptitude, massive waste and folks get mad now? Don't get it.



A friend of mine and former TSA screener who is also former Air Force guy, B.A., and all around good dude. He wanted to help his country again after 9/11 so he left the justice system and joined TSA as a security officer/screener before they had even begun issuing uniforms. He went to work in a plain white polo and blue slacks alongside the NG.

Within weeks he was struck by the gross and willful incompetence of his superiors. Since many of his coworkers were also prior military and many were SNCO's and officers, he found they shared his sentiment. It was as though ineptitude was a job requirement for management.

Finally, after having found his manager reading the paper in a terminal restaurant instead of responding to a screen station problem, he blew up and asked her how someone like her with no prior experience, no education, and no apparent skills could ever have been promoted to manager. She calmly replied without looking up from the paper "Remember on the TSA application where it asked if you were applying for screener or manager position? I marked management. " Turns out anyone who marked management was hired for management and anyone who marked screening officer was hired as a screener, regardless. Think about that. Then think about this: he was flat out told: "You will not select people in muslim attire for random searches. Period." That's when he hung it up.

People are worried about getting scanned? How about worrying if a plane gets hijacked? Suicidal terrorists are not hard to predict. They fall into very narrow behavioral and psychological profiles. Heck, the old automated CAPPS system that just looks at ticket purchase and payment method flagged 2 of the 4 hijackers on Flight 77 out of Dulles. If the computer system had been programmed to assess additional points for arabic names on either the ticket or by the paying party, I wonder how many would have been flagged? Probably all of them. BTW, the airport re-screened their bags but no one pulled them aside for questioning. Why not? PCism run amok.


We are dealing with a very small and relatively limited terrorist network. If we gave up nation building and PCism, how long would it have taken the most powerful nation on earth to bag these guys up and discourage the rest?

carguym14
November 17, 2010, 10:08
Originally posted by chet
We can jingle jangle all day about the mechanics of internal building security.

Won't make a difference. The rest of America doesn't care.

If they did, more politicians in fear of losing an election would have run on TSA reform. I am not aware of any man from any party that did.

Almost a decade of ineptitude, massive waste and folks get mad now? Don't get it.



A friend of mine and former TSA screener who is also former Air Force guy, B.A., and all around good dude. He wanted to help his country again after 9/11 so he left the justice system and joined TSA as a security officer/screener before they had even begun issuing uniforms. He went to work in a plain white polo and blue slacks alongside the NG.

Within weeks he was struck by the gross and willful incompetence of his superiors. Since many of his coworkers were also prior military and many were SNCO's and officers, he found they shared his sentiment. It was as though ineptitude was a job requirement for management.

Finally, after having found his manager reading the paper in a terminal restaurant instead of responding to a screen station problem, he blew up and asked her how someone like her with no prior experience, no education, and no apparent skills could ever have been promoted to manager. She calmly replied without looking up from the paper "Remember on the TSA application where it asked if you were applying for screener or manager position? I marked management. " Turns out anyone who marked management was hired for management and anyone who marked screening officer was hired as a screener, regardless. Think about that. Then think about this: he was flat out told: "You will not select people in muslim attire for random searches. Period." That's when he hung it up.

People are worried about getting scanned? How about worrying if a plane gets hijacked? Suicidal terrorists are not hard to predict. They fall into very narrow behavioral and psychological profiles. Heck, the old automated CAPPS system that just looks at ticket purchase and payment method flagged 2 of the 4 hijackers on Flight 77 out of Dulles. If the computer system had been programmed to assess additional points for arabic names on either the ticket or by the paying party, I wonder how many would have been flagged? Probably all of them. BTW, the airport re-screened their bags but no one pulled them aside for questioning. Why not? PCism run amok.


We are dealing with a very small and relatively limited terrorist network. If we gave up nation building and PCism, how long would it have taken the most powerful nation on earth to bag these guys up and discourage the rest?



TSA isn't going away.Like all the other departments in the fedgov,it's here to stay.Gives the gov more power and shows the people/sheeple that "they are doing something".We are in the minority.

The slippery slope is an escalator.........

alant
November 17, 2010, 13:17
Originally posted by Bama Steve
Alant - What was your point?
That there are more dangerous threats than we're ever going to address with airport security.

jdluton
November 17, 2010, 17:45
Originally posted by gunplumber


I don't think a search prior to engaging in a voluntary activity is the same as being secure in one's home/person against unreasonable search.

I recognize that there is some gray area in an airport which is a part-public, part private, part government facility. I do not support stopping people on the street and instituting a Terry search without PC or RS.

You are not required to enter an airport.

I hear what you are saying but we are, after all, dealing with the Federal Government. This will be used to further encroach upon our liberties.
What happens when some ass-hat drives a bus into a crowded market? Or takes over a train/subway and derails it? Will we be molested anytime we use public transportation? How about sporting events? Someone could wrap some C-4 around their pecker and take out a couple rows of fans...better X-Ray/fondle everyone at the door. Going to sporting events is of course.....voluntary....