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View Full Version : Your input is important to us, Drum Mag Group BUY!


allied armament
November 08, 2010, 14:30
Group Buy Ends: 11/14/10

As you know we have just begun to release our X-FAL drum magazine to the public. However we need your feedback in order to best serve FAL owners in new product and design.

We are looking for a select group of Fal enthusiasts that are interested in a 50 round drum magazine that’s ready for market. We would like to offer a group buy of 40-50 units at a discount providing we can get feedback via this forum. Although we have tested these for over seven months and feel it’s met our criteria, we feel there is no greater community to build an alliance with. We will stand behind our product 100% and encourage you to work directly with our engineering department to make this the best product possible.

This thread will be dedicated to the confirmation and feedback of this product.

Price: Will be Pm'd to you, please do not repost it.

This is for two reasons, fairness to other clients who have payed more, and so people who stumble upon this thread and ask for the one time price. Still to this day I get asked if I have 1919a4 semiautos for $895, and I haven't sold one for that price in over two years.

Here's what I want from the people in this thread that do partake in this purchase.

1) A picture with the drum in your gun.
2) A write up of first impressions on overall quality.
3) A Short write up on the manual.
4) A write up on overall performance and ease of use.
5) Suggestions to what you'd like to see different or changed.
6) Video of you operating the drum in your gun (optional)

Note: Each person is limited to one drum in this buy.

Thank You,

James Malarkey

ww.Xs-Products.com

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/shadyirishmen/internetadd1sidefolderreduced.jpg

HERE IS THE FINAL LIST:

DeMilled Yes
Brunop Yes
L/FN Yes
BLINDone3 Yes
Psychomonkey Yes
Jaflowers Yes
gska3873 Yes
Grinder Yes
Kwthor Yes
Renovator Yes
snowhawk jockey Yes
Rollin Black Yes
Gunfanx NO
Ron_in_PHX NO
Klambpix NO
PrJ NO
MO-FAL NO
Tedg NO
Jaxxas NO
Jbrooks NO
Sig220 NO
Cava3r4 NO
Hoot G NO
Jimmbob NO

Sig220
November 08, 2010, 14:53
Boy, that is going to be a heavy booger!!!


Depending on the price, I would be interested.

MO-FAL
November 08, 2010, 14:55
I would love to be able to get in on this but unless your group buy price is really low I can't.

jaflowers
November 08, 2010, 15:07
I'm interested. Let me know the details....... i.e. price, when this will happen, what type of testing/information you'll need.

Cava3r4
November 08, 2010, 15:12
Boy, that is going to be a heavy booger!!! Depending on the price, I would be interested.

Ditto to the above.
Bob

Jaxxas
November 08, 2010, 15:16
Originally posted by Sig220
Depending on the price, I would be interested.

+1

dwarmbrodt
November 08, 2010, 15:46
And here I sit in New York, knowing I cant have one...

brunop
November 08, 2010, 16:04
I'm in. There is a heavy-barrel FAL that is crying for this.

I need to know price, date of group buy, and type of feedback required.

Peace.

IRONWORKER
November 08, 2010, 16:04
Originally posted by Sig220
Depending on the price, I would be interested.



+1

PrJ
November 08, 2010, 17:05
I would be interested in a FAL drum mag group buy.

John Crusher
November 08, 2010, 17:16
As others stated "price" and I'll run the crap outta' it . I've got lotso' Ammo to feed the beast. :p

Hoot G
November 08, 2010, 18:15
I'm interested.

Thanks!

ftierson
November 08, 2010, 18:32
Are you going to be selling them from Argentina or from someplace out of the country (given your other threads)?

Just curious... :)

Forrest

Rooster
November 08, 2010, 18:47
I'm interested

tothemax
November 08, 2010, 18:49
Im your huckleberry..

:cool:

ws65
November 08, 2010, 19:18
Originally posted by dwarmbrodt
And here I sit in New York, knowing I cant have one...
I'm with ya dwarm...Kommiefornia is the same way with high-cap mags :mad:

Renovator
November 08, 2010, 20:41
I'll see and call.

gmtech485
November 08, 2010, 20:44
Im interested, let us know how much.

klambpix
November 08, 2010, 20:44
I'm interested.

L/FN
November 08, 2010, 20:59
I'm interested in one too.

BLINDone3
November 08, 2010, 21:05
I'm in! Could use this for a fun project!!

gska3873
November 08, 2010, 21:10
I am interested.

58tbirdrod
November 08, 2010, 21:45
PRICE!!!!!!

DeMilled
November 08, 2010, 22:56
I've got two Izzy HBs that would look pretty sexy sporting those drums; count me interested.

MOTO
November 08, 2010, 23:01
Originally posted by Sig220
Depending on the price, I would be interested.

+ 20

rtracy111
November 09, 2010, 05:11
Again, Price Please!!!!!

MOTO
November 09, 2010, 09:17
It seems that at least 20-30 (if not more) people here would want to partake on a group buy if the price is reasonable. This could be a form of free advertising for the product once they start showing them off on different gun boards throughout the net.

The same drum for the H&K G3/91 can be found for as low as $230 new (& for a single piece). Can you guys do a lil' better than that for a confirmed group buy?

Thanks.

allied armament
November 09, 2010, 10:06
I'm going to PM everyone the price this evening, please do not repost it after I've pm'd you the number. This is for two reasons fairness to other clients who have payed more and so people do not stumble upon this thread and ask for the one time price. I still to this day get asked if I have 1919a4 semiautos for $895, and I haven't sold one for that price in over two years.

Hers is what I want from the people in this thread that do partake in this purchase.

1) A picture with the drum in your gun.
2) A write up of first impressions on overall quality.
3) A Short write up on the manual.
4) A write up on overall performance and ease of use.
5) Suggestions to what you'd like to see different or changed.
6) Video of you operating the drum in your gun (optional)

Note: We are going to limit each person to one drum in this buy.

I'm going to post this information in the first post.

preston1026
November 09, 2010, 10:17
please add me to the list for wanting the price for the group buy

jbrooks
November 09, 2010, 10:20
I'm interested. Please let me know the details.

This thing has to be able to withstand a few drops onto a concrete floor, loaded. The .223 C-Mag does. AMHIK! :)

My Soviet RPD metal drum has become disabled twice in drops. Last time fatally.


Thanks,

JWB

AZ Dave
November 09, 2010, 10:26
I've been waiting for years for a fal drum...I'm in.

palmettomoon
November 09, 2010, 10:37
PM me with a price each too. I'm interested in at least one.

Thanks

tedg
November 09, 2010, 10:55
Interested depending on price.

jimmbob
November 09, 2010, 11:36
Also interested depending on price. Thank you, jb

Psychomonkey
November 09, 2010, 11:38
Are these the pre production billet version? I already communicated with you about my interest in that. I am going to buy at least one drum, and if I can save a few bucks by helping with a testimonial then I am all for it. I just need to know what the pricing is going to be for a group buy. Hopefully there will be enough interested people. I'd hate to pass on the pre-production individual sale option, and go with the group buy, only to have it fall through. I've eagerly awaited your drum for many months, and don't want to miss out due to backorders.

Thanks

John Harris

allied armament
November 09, 2010, 13:02
No these will be standard models, and not the billet ones. We aren't going to do the pre-production billet ones now as we are not short on castings anymore.

Originally posted by Psychomonkey
Are these the pre production billet version? I already communicated with you about my interest in that. I am going to buy at least one drum, and if I can save a few bucks by helping with a testimonial then I am all for it. I just need to know what the pricing is going to be for a group buy. Hopefully there will be enough interested people. I'd hate to pass on the pre-production individual sale option, and go with the group buy, only to have it fall through. I've eagerly awaited your drum for many months, and don't want to miss out due to backorders.

Thanks

John Harris

olgier
November 09, 2010, 13:19
I'm interested depending on price point.

2barearms
November 09, 2010, 14:23
Put me down for one, pending price and delivery time frame.

Psychomonkey
November 09, 2010, 15:37
I received an email from James on the 7th concerning my interest in the pre-production drums that were/are being offered. I was sent an address with which to send payment. I just read on the forum that the pre-production billet units aren't being offered now that there are adequate cast units available. It has only been 2 days, have you pulled/sold all the billet units already?

allied armament
November 09, 2010, 16:01
Everything I've issued so far has only been for the standard product, I'm sorry if there was mis understanding as we only mentioned doing the billets on this forum in another thread. If you review my emails there is no mention of billet drums in any of my final advertisements. If you would like a refund when I receive payment please let me know.

Originally posted by Psychomonkey
I received an email from James on the 7th concerning my interest in the pre-production drums that were/are being offered. I was sent an address with which to send payment. I just read on the forum that the pre-production billet units aren't being offered now that there are adequate cast units available. It has only been 2 days, have you pulled/sold all the billet units already?

gunfanx3
November 09, 2010, 16:12
I would be interested and more than willing to give a review. Of course, the main factor would be price point. Let me know and I would confirm after that.

Robert

Shinerguy
November 09, 2010, 16:26
I'll take one.... HELL YEAH!

Texas Jaguar
November 09, 2010, 17:05
I was raised to believe when things sound to good to be true they usually are.

I really, really hope I'm wrong but this whole thing smells to me.

This guy, surely someone knows him, offers something everyone wants but no one has. Now friends & neighbors here is what you want, at a special discount price to you.

In the process he ends up with your Email address and ultimately your home address and the fact you are all FAL owners. Some of you own more or many more than one, right?

I'm assuming he is soliciting money from you for an item sight unseen?

Ah never mind. What the hell do I know? I'm probably so full of crap my eyes are brown.

Viper Driver
November 09, 2010, 17:10
Please shoot me a price also. If it is good, I am in.

Ron_in_PHX
November 09, 2010, 17:12
As with most others I would be interested depending on the price.

Orangejulius
November 09, 2010, 17:26
I'd be up to a group buy if the price is right. Let's hear the price! :)

riffraff2
November 09, 2010, 18:15
Can the para stock be fully folded with the drum attached?

masman
November 09, 2010, 18:24
Originally posted by Texas Jaguar
I was raised to believe when things sound to good to be true they usually are.

I really, really hope I'm wrong but this whole thing smells to me.

This guy, surely someone knows him, offers something everyone wants but no one has. Now friends & neighbors here is what you want, at a special discount price to you.

In the process he ends up with your Email address and ultimately your home address and the fact you are all FAL owners. Some of you own more or many more than one, right?

I'm assuming he is soliciting money from you for an item sight unseen?

Ah never mind. What the hell do I know? I'm probably so full of crap my eyes are brown.

they're a legit buisness. i've talked to a guy whos played with their Cetme/G-3 drum and said it was well made.

L/FN
November 09, 2010, 18:27
Originally posted by Texas Jaguar
I was raised to believe when things sound to good to be true they usually are.

I really, really hope I'm wrong but this whole thing smells to me.
--------------
Ah never mind. What the hell do I know? I'm probably so full of crap my eyes are brown.

I've never deal with and have no association with Allied Armament, but I've seen them around for several yrs now it seems.
I'm only FAL's, but I'm sure some of the more varied weapons guy's would have already called AA out if they were not legit.

Ron E Smith
November 09, 2010, 18:30
I'm interested. Please PM the details

jugrunner
November 09, 2010, 18:36
I thought (?) the units on GunBroker were Billet ... ?

I'm reading in this thread that there will NOT be any Billet units available at ANY price ... ?

thx ...

MO-FAL
November 09, 2010, 18:39
Originally posted by Texas Jaguar
I was raised to believe when things sound to good to be true they usually are.

I really, really hope I'm wrong but this whole thing smells to me.

This guy, surely someone knows him, offers something everyone wants but no one has. Now friends & neighbors here is what you want, at a special discount price to you.

In the process he ends up with your Email address and ultimately your home address and the fact you are all FAL owners. Some of you own more or many more than one, right?

I'm assuming he is soliciting money from you for an item sight unseen?

Ah never mind. What the hell do I know? I'm probably so full of crap my eyes are brown.

TJ I think your concern is warranted but this company has built many different drums for other models and just finally got into the FAL business.

I really doubt the price on this drum is going to be "unbelievably" low. I havent received a PM yet but I am expecting a price that is out of the unrealistically low category but better than the typical factory price.

I'm hoping for unbelievable low or I can't afford it.

allied armament
November 09, 2010, 18:58
Unfortunately no, it really looks cool in that gun, but it would be better suited for a fixed stock set up.

Originally posted by riffraff2
Can the para stock be fully folded with the drum attached?

MO-FAL
November 09, 2010, 19:11
When can we expect a pm?

Grinder
November 09, 2010, 19:47
put me on the interested list

Psychomonkey
November 09, 2010, 19:52
Originally posted by allied armament
Everything I've issued so far has only been for the standard product, I'm sorry if there was mis understanding as we only mentioned doing the billets on this forum in another thread. If you review my emails there is no mention of billet drums in any of my final advertisements. If you would like a refund when I receive payment please let me know.



Lol, I have been posting all over that other thread you mentioned. My first post there concerning my interest was October 19th 2009...post# 112

I am totally sold on the drum. I thought I would be able to get a billet unit, but if not, then I am sure a cast unit will do. I have only heard good things about your product. I live not all that far from your manufacturing facility, and think it is great that a local outfit is supporting my FAL addiction.

It just would have been nice to get one of the special run billet units, kinda like a bonus for being supportive of something that some people scoffed at.


Thanks,

John

English Mike
November 09, 2010, 21:00
This is a "Group Buy" thread & as such belongs right here in the Group Buys section of the Marketplace forum.;)

KyGuntrader
November 09, 2010, 21:03
Iam intrested, price is factor.

allied armament
November 09, 2010, 22:08
Okay all interested at this point have been PM'd.

Please make sure if you have any questions to please ask now. We still have room on this group buy so if you're interested please post and I will send you the price.

allied armament
November 09, 2010, 22:14
I just wanted to give everyone one more tidbit of information so they know what they're getting. The X-FAL is Similar to the X-91 however due to the way the FAL operates vs the HK-91 we had to design a mechanical system to help assist in the operation. This is a new patent pending device. As well because the mag has to lock against the receiver and support itself, it required the installation of a billet machined insert. This will not only prevent premature wear with use in the magwell but also prevents wear on the mag iself. These two features are not found in our X-91 product, so I just wanted you to be aware of this and to realize the price of this product will never be priced as low as the X-91.

Psychomonkey
November 09, 2010, 22:29
Does the bolt hold open have to be removed to use the drum?

thedrickel
November 09, 2010, 23:04
Interested in 1

allied armament
November 09, 2010, 23:55
The bolt hold open does have to either be removed, modified, or replaced with L1A1 bho.

Originally posted by Psychomonkey
Does the bolt hold open have to be removed to use the drum?

Rollin Black
November 10, 2010, 01:06
Interested in the group buy, sending PM

DeMilled
November 10, 2010, 02:23
Do you have technical details on how a metric bolt hold open would have to modified?

Will the mod. affect the bolt hold open's opperation with a standard magazine?

MOTO
November 10, 2010, 08:58
Originally posted by DeMilled
Do you have technical details on how a metric bolt hold open would have to modified?

Will the mod. affect the bolt hold open's opperation with a standard magazine?

+1. Having this info would be very helpful in order to make a decision.

Thanks.

allied armament
November 10, 2010, 10:02
The easiest method is just to remove the Bolt hold open device, its held in by one screw. To modify it you have to take the pin off of it, the one that protrudes into the magazine well. Otherwise you can buy an L1A1 bolt hold open device for which does not have the nipple and you'll be good to go. I will have our engineer make a schematic of the part, so you can visually understand the differences.

allied armament
November 10, 2010, 10:27
Alright here is the current list of people who are on and off board:

Cava3r4 Yes
DeMilled Yes
Brunop Yes
L/FN Yes
BLINDone3 Yes
Psychomonkey Yes
Jaflowers Yes
MO-FAL NO
Tedg NO
Jaxxas NO
Jbrooks NO
Sig220 NO


Out of 46 pm's I've gottent 12 responses, please make sure to respond to me yes or no via PM if you got a price from me.

Thank you,

James M.

Cava3r4
November 10, 2010, 10:31
am I going to have to alter or take out my bolt hold open on either my:
STG-58 or
SAR-48
??
both are metric
Cav

Hole_Puncher
November 10, 2010, 10:48
Ok I'll take one depending on the price.

allied armament
November 10, 2010, 14:15
Here is what your bolt hold open needs to look like in order to operate with the drum:
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/shadyirishmen/bho.jpg

It cannot have the nipple on it. The one on the left, nipple. The one on the right an L1A1 without the nipple.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/shadyirishmen/bho2.jpg

We also just finished the manual I am going to try to load it too.

P806
November 10, 2010, 20:08
This would be great, but due to the modifications I have to say no.
Thanks tho.
P

allied armament
November 10, 2010, 23:38
Its a deal breaker for a few of you about the Bolt Hold Open, but there is really no other way to make a drum magazine operate in this gun with it. I should have the engineer chime in here so you can have a better understanding.

Another thing does anyone know how to post a pdf file?

HERE IS THE NEW LIST:

DeMilled Yes
Brunop Yes
L/FN Yes
BLINDone3 Yes
Psychomonkey Yes
Jaflowers Yes
gska3873 Yes
Grinder Yes
Gunfanx NO
Ron_in_PHX NO
Klambpix NO
PrJ NO
MO-FAL NO
Tedg NO
Jaxxas NO
Jbrooks NO
Sig220 NO
Cava3r4 NO
P806 NO

HighRatMaster
November 11, 2010, 01:41
Price please.

allied armament
November 11, 2010, 10:32
Just Want to Let Everyone Know, I'm going to close this group buy on: 11/14/10

If you are not confirmed by this date you will not be able to get the group buy price. Thank you to everyone who has commited or sent me a response, I really appreciate the follow through.

olgier
November 11, 2010, 17:37
Sent a response. I'm passing also as I do not want to change out my BHO to use the drum.

allied armament
November 11, 2010, 21:25
For an extra $6 I can include a modified bolt hold open, so you do not have to modify the one in your gun.

Or you can order it here:

http://www.dsarms.com/L1A1-Bolt-Hold-Open-without-pin-Good-to-Very-Good---478/productinfo/478/

MO-FAL
November 12, 2010, 01:02
I regretfully had to pass and can see I am not the only person. The modifications didn't bother me I'm not a purist.

I was hoping for a really low price, kind of like a "thanks for being a guinea pig" reward. But I don't know the production cost on these drums so that might be a bare bones price.

I really hope you get more interest once they hit the market because I hate to see good bard research thrown down the drain due to various factors. Like I said in my PM good luck and I truly mean that in all my good graces.

If you ever get a factory "2nd" due to droppage or a bad finish pm me.

allied armament
November 12, 2010, 13:01
The list has been updated. Anyone who is on the Yes side please go ahead and send payment as we will be shipping these in about 7 business days.

DeMilled Yes
Brunop Yes
L/FN Yes
BLINDone3 Yes
Psychomonkey Yes
Jaflowers Yes
gska3873 Yes
Grinder Yes
Rollin Black Yes
Viper Driver NO
HighRatMaster NO
Olgier NO
Gunfanx NO
Ron_in_PHX NO
Klambpix NO
PrJ NO
MO-FAL NO
Tedg NO
Jaxxas NO
Jbrooks NO
Sig220 NO
Cava3r4 NO
Hoot G NO
Jimmbob NO

S2rt
November 12, 2010, 13:45
Interested, but it depends on the price...

kwthor
November 13, 2010, 06:57
Interested. Please send me price quote.

christopher393
November 13, 2010, 14:59
Im interested.

Tankdriver
November 13, 2010, 15:02
Originally posted by Jaxxas


+1

1 + also

allied armament
November 13, 2010, 15:36
I should have some video here in about an hour I'll post up!

allied armament
November 13, 2010, 19:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4XPcdp6Djk

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/v4XPcdp6Djk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/v4XPcdp6Djk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

video of a mag dump

allied armament
November 15, 2010, 11:17
Group Buy is Now Over.

Here is the comprehensive list of people who responded. With yes or no.

DeMilled Yes
Brunop Yes
L/FN Yes
BLINDone3 Yes
Psychomonkey Yes
Jaflowers Yes
gska3873 Yes
Grinder Yes
Kwthor Yes
Renovator Yes
Rollin Black Yes
snowhawk jockey Yes
Gunfanx NO
Ron_in_PHX NO
Klambpix NO
PrJ NO
MO-FAL NO
Tedg NO
Jaxxas NO
Jbrooks NO
Sig220 NO
Cava3r4 NO
Hoot G NO
Jimmbob NO

Thank you to those who have commited to the purchase. I have already received a couple payments and would like to get the rest by the end of the weekend as we are shipping these late this week, early the following week.

Please send payment to the address I pm'd you.

Looking forward to the feedback and the reviews.

James Malarkey

www.xs-products.com

allied armament
November 16, 2010, 11:37
Kind of a preview to what you will be getting.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cXD1ZDfmMRk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cXD1ZDfmMRk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

BigBoy1
November 16, 2010, 14:23
I have a registered selective fire FAL. Would you be interestd in an evaluation of the drum in both semi and full auto modes? Thanks.

Bill

allied armament
November 17, 2010, 13:28
Anyone who is sending in payment if you have already sent it great, if you have not sent it please make sure to send it by 11/18/10. If not please send payment to:

P.O. Box 1534
Scappoose OR 97056

As I will be back in Oregon from the 22nd until the 3rd for the holiday season.

Bill PM me

Originally posted by BigBoy1
I have a registered selective fire FAL. Would you be interestd in an evaluation of the drum in both semi and full auto modes? Thanks.

Bill

allied armament
November 17, 2010, 13:29
Nice video:

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/owtUaocuKCo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/owtUaocuKCo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Psychomonkey
November 18, 2010, 13:54
Back in Oregon from 22nd till after the 3rd? Uh-oh

So far my payment hasn't been delivered by the post office....sent it the 10th certified first class...so much for government reliability and efficiency.

Looks like I might be in a pickle...:(


John Harris

allied armament
November 20, 2010, 00:31
I just want to let everyone know a bunch of payments have come in over the last two days. I will put up a list of all people who have paid via first last initial and state. I should have this up tomorrow evening and I will update it on Monday evening.

allied armament
November 23, 2010, 00:19
Here is the current comprehensive list from 11/22/10 at 9pm. Any orders received after this date will be forwarded to our Oregon address.

Each person is listed by First, (Middle if given), Last Initial, Followed by the city and state.

K G, Griffin, GA
S P, Bernville, PA
E M D, Elmendorf AFB, AK
C C, Sierra Vista, AZ
K H, Ft. Wayne, IN
R E, Sante FE, NM
K M, Glendive, MT
M O, Irving , Texas
W S, Black River Falls, WI
Deuce 4, R.P. M. Rochester, WA
S W, Fairfield, IL
A B D, Fayetteville, NC
W L C, Elizabeth City, NC
D T, Bayfield, CO
G M, Tucson, AZ
M D, LaFayette LA
M S, League City, TX
P L, Graham, WA
L B, Spring Hill, KS
K W T, Newberg, OR
F & F, Iowa City, IA
B W, Austin, TX
J F, Cocoa, FL

allied armament
November 23, 2010, 03:00
Check out what made it into "Modern Warfare Black Ops Special Forces" I can gaurantee you that there has never been a .308 drum magazine before this game.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/shadyirishmen/drummag.png

allied armament
November 26, 2010, 00:00
Just wanted to post we are postponing shipping until Tuesday of next week due to the Holiday schedule.

L/FN
November 30, 2010, 13:01
Will these be shipping soon?
Sent my US Postal MO back on the 15th.

Larry Briggs

Jen
November 30, 2010, 18:46
Figures I see this AFTER the end date..

BLINDone3
November 30, 2010, 21:15
Can you update the post who you've received payment from?
Want to confirm you've received it before I go on Vacation next week!

allied armament
December 01, 2010, 01:55
I will update the sales receipts tomorrow, I'm working out of Portland Oregon and we will be shipping all of these tomorrow. My forwarded mail will be to me tomorrow afternoon, so that will sum it up. I should have all payments by then.

allied armament
December 01, 2010, 20:42
Heres the updated list only two more are added at the bottom:

K G, Griffin, GA
S P, Bernville, PA
E M D, Elmendorf AFB, AK
C C, Sierra Vista, AZ
K H, Ft. Wayne, IN
R E, Sante FE, NM
K M, Glendive, MT
M O, Irving , Texas
W S, Black River Falls, WI
Deuce 4, R.P. M. Rochester, WA
S W, Fairfield, IL
A B D, Fayetteville, NC
W L C, Elizabeth City, NC
D T, Bayfield, CO
G M, Tucson, AZ
M D, LaFayette LA
M S, League City, TX
P L, Graham, WA
L B, Spring Hill, KS
K W T, Newberg, OR
F & F, Iowa City, IA
B W, Austin, TX
J F, Cocoa, FL
K M, Shoreline, WA
R W, Collinsville, ILL

So one more update we are now shipping tomorrow we have been fitting and checking every one of these before we ship them out, so its a little more time consuming than expected.

allied armament
December 02, 2010, 20:15
They have all been shipped :bow: . All orders except one went priority mail (this was a person who sent payment for three), their order went parcel post. Expect them in two to three days, so worse case scenario Monday for delivery. I have delivery confirmations so if you do not get your package by then let me know and we can somewhat track it.

I'm going to try to put a video up on how to use your drum, it should be up Saturday evening.

Vaughn L. Allen
December 02, 2010, 22:21
James... Like Jen this is the first that I've seen of this post. I am in for one if you decide to do it again! The Polish AK parts that I purchased from you were awesome!

allied armament
December 04, 2010, 14:12
Once the reviews are in, we may have another group buy.

BLINDone3
December 04, 2010, 17:42
Received mine this morning!!! Quality and finish look fantastic! If I can just get these damn lights up for the wife I might make it to the range tomorrow for a test drive! Will try and posat pic's soon.

Thank you!!

DeMilled
December 04, 2010, 19:05
I also received my drum today, looks great and I'll start putting my review together ASAP. Thanks Allied Armament.


P.S. My Izzy HB looks just plain evil rocking the 50rd drum :shades:

allied armament
December 05, 2010, 12:46
I can't wait to see some photos. Just think when you inserted the drum into your HB, you were the very first person in the world to put a drum magazine into a FAL HB gun.... EVER! Pretty cool when you think of it that way.

gska3873
December 06, 2010, 12:08
I received my drum on Saturday and haven't had a chance to do a thorough review yet, I only had a few minutes today to do some initial inspection with it,(will follow with pictures and a more detailed review once I get a chance and time to get out and test it) but here are a couple initial observations I have. I have only limited this to a couple pictures since my camera isn't cooperating very well at the moment.

Overall fit and finish appear to be excellent on the drum.

I have test fitted it in a couple DSA type 1 receivers and lock up was nice and snug with very little play, if any, once inserted. Manually feed a few rounds from the magazine into the chamber and they fed and ejected smoothly.

I also first tried it in a couple of DSA L1A1 receivers so I didn't have to monkey with the BHO for a trial fit. What I can tell from this is that the drum magazine will not work in these as currently designed (at least on the two DSA L1A1's that I have on hand). When inserted into the magwell the machined insert (beak or lug) that engages the cutout in the receiver front magwell is not long enough to engage that cutout on the DSA L1A1 receivers that I have. This causes the front of the drum to sit low by approximately 3/32 to 1/8 of an inch which will make the tip of the bullet ram the receiver below the feedramps and not feed into the chamber. It looks like the machined insert on the front of the drum could possibly be replaced or supplied with one that resembles an L1A1 lug for swapping out between metric and inch pattern receivers. Not sure if these where designed to also be used on L1A1 receivers but those are my initial observations with them. Below are a couple pictures of what I was seeing with this (sorry for the crappy pictures but my camera is deciding to fight me right now).

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee107/dizzydad73/IMG_1170.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee107/dizzydad73/IMG_1171.jpg

allied armament
December 06, 2010, 13:16
I think we will be able to make different inserts for the L1A1 style receivers. Our plan is to pick up a receiver over the next week or two and make some adaptable inserts.

Just an FYI, make sure to put the drum in your gun to check fit while its unloaded. Once its loaded you may have to pull your bolt back to get it to lock in or turn the hand wheel.

If in the case that the mag unloaded does not lock into the gun, you can file in this area, for which we left long on the spec side in case receivers varied greatly.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/shadyirishmen/Drumill.jpg

Right Hand View

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/shadyirishmen/Drumill2.jpg

jaflowers
December 09, 2010, 12:00
so I received my drum mag last week. It will not seat fully or latch in completely in any of my 3 FALs, a G series, a Steyr FN HB and a Coonan arms build. The drum portion contacts the magazine well and doesn't allow for a fully seated fit. Has anyone else had an issue with theirs fitting? I tried talking to James and Scott from Allied but haven't heard back in a couple of days. I did remove a very small portion from the back latching point on the magazine but that did not work and I'm very hesitant to remove too much. Any suggestions??

jaflowers
December 09, 2010, 14:00
Well I removed more metal from the rear latching point and that finally worked. The magazine now locks into place on my Coonan receiver. I give it a workout either this weekend or next.

Jason

allied armament
December 09, 2010, 16:09
Jason,

Glad you were able to use the solution in the thread, sorry I hadn't gotten back to you yet. I think I was relying on a response from our engineer but he may have not gotten the email from me. Anyway, keep us posted.

Originally posted by jaflowers
Well I removed more metal from the rear latching point and that finally worked. The magazine now locks into place on my Coonan receiver. I give it a workout either this weekend or next.

Jason

gska3873
December 10, 2010, 15:59
Had a chance today to get out and run some rounds through the X-Series drum. The rifle in use is a 16.25" carbine built on a DSA type 2 receiver. Ammo was South African surplus. On to the review:

The manual is clear and concise. It goes into thorough detail about the operation and use of the drum without getting too jargoned and overburdened with information. Good pictures and parts breakdown also in case anything ever needs to be ordered for replacement. It is actually nice getting a manual with it when so many items do not come with one nowadays.

I already spoke of the overall quality in my previous posting but I will re-iterate that the drum seems very solidly made without any flimsy parts that will break easily. Only a couple of concerns or suggestions that I would have here are what I mentioned previously about the fit in an Inch pattern receiver and the drum could use a little extra clearance on the RH side of the magwell where it starts to radius into the round drum portion. I have attached a couple of photo's where you can see that there is a slight interference fit in this area that could be addressed in the casting.

Loading of the drum takes a little getting used to, but once you have done it a couple of times it isn't all that bad. The rotary dial on the front really helps in taking out the spring pressure for loading the rounds into the drum. The drum does (at least on this rifle) require a bit of a "slap" from the bottom to get it to fully seat in the magwell when it is loaded and the bolt/carrier are in the forward position. I didn't have the option of holding the bolt back as I just removed the BHO device from the rifle for today's function test. I loaded the drum and ran it twice, the first time the bolt/carrier cocked with ease but the second time it was a little stiffer which I am attributing to the overall spring pressure on the first cartridge against the bottom of the bolt. During both tests I did not have any failures to feed or failures to eject from the drum at all. It fed every round into the chamber with ease.

The couple of items I would like to see changed are an additional front insert that can be used for Inch pattern receivers. A little more relief on the RH side of the drum where there is the interference fit. I would also prefer not to have to disable or remove the BHO device when using the drum.

On to some pictures and a video:

Drum in rifle
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee107/dizzydad73/rifle.jpg

Interference fit on magwell
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee107/dizzydad73/drumclearance.jpg

Indentation marks on drum from interference fit
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee107/dizzydad73/drumwear.jpg

Video in use
<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid228.photobucket.com%2Falbums% 2Fee107%2Fdizzydad73%2FMVI_1179.mp4">

allied armament
December 10, 2010, 16:32
Great review, I really appreciate the data. Everything has been noted and we will get those changes into future production. That was perfect!

moses
December 12, 2010, 15:09
Can someone post a close up pic of the mag catch on the back of the drum?

allied armament
December 14, 2010, 00:34
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/shadyirishmen/IMG_2355Large.jpg

This is an old photo of an early prototype. do you need me to edit it?

moses
December 14, 2010, 02:12
No that's good. Just wanted to see if you guys put the angle on the mag catch tab and you did.
So I am assuming the bolt hold open interferes with the drum being inserted and also that the drum would have nothing to engage the bolt hold open if it was in the gun.

gska3873
December 14, 2010, 08:37
Johnny,

From looking at mine the rear of the housing would hit the BHO when inserting it into the magwell. I initially thought, hey, just notch out the rear of the housing but from examining it further it isn't that simple. The rounds actually sit a little further back in the magwell, if you will, then when they are in a standard FAL magazine so the actual rounds look like they would interfere with the BHO as well. This is just my guess, but it looks like it would have to had a fairly substantial re-design to the rear housing to add material to have the rounds sit a little further forward and then add some sort of channel all the way through it with a rear extension on the upper follower for it to engage the BHO device. I would also guess this wasn't done in order to keep as many parts/tooling in making these as common with the HK drum as possible in order to keep costs down not too mention the durability of the extension on the upper follower traveling the distance it would have to in the channel in the drum. That is all just speculation on my part though as I don't have one of the X-91 drums to compare it to.

allied armament
December 14, 2010, 10:11
You are exactly correct. We've tried notching it and the rounds still hit the ammunition. Also if we move the ammo further to the forend of the magazine the material thickness gets to thin.

Originally posted by gska3873
Johnny,

From looking at mine the rear of the housing would hit the BHO when inserting it into the magwell. I initially thought, hey, just notch out the rear of the housing but from examining it further it isn't that simple. The rounds actually sit a little further back in the magwell, if you will, then when they are in a standard FAL magazine so the actual rounds look like they would interfere with the BHO as well. This is just my guess, but it looks like it would have to had a fairly substantial re-design to the rear housing to add material to have the rounds sit a little further forward and then add some sort of channel all the way through it with a rear extension on the upper follower for it to engage the BHO device. I would also guess this wasn't done in order to keep as many parts/tooling in making these as common with the HK drum as possible in order to keep costs down not too mention the durability of the extension on the upper follower traveling the distance it would have to in the channel in the drum. That is all just speculation on my part though as I don't have one of the X-91 drums to compare it to.

billh1963
December 14, 2010, 10:55
Okay....I want one. Sign me up for the next buy!

Psychomonkey
December 15, 2010, 15:46
Any plans to show off the new drum at the next Portland gunshow?

allied armament
December 15, 2010, 19:19
Yes, Tactical Ammunition should have them at the gunshow this weekend. He has FAL, HK and AR .308 drums in stock and ready to hand over the counter.

allied armament
December 19, 2010, 15:33
I sent a fairly sizeable amount of these to members here, so I just wanted to see if there were more reviews coming or in the works. I know its the Holiday season so many of you are busy bee's with all the family stuff.

DeMilled
December 19, 2010, 19:59
Mine is in the works.
It'll be cool, just hang tight.

kwthor
December 20, 2010, 01:24
I'm swamped with the holidays, extra work and a home remodel.
I've looked at the drum (sweet) and put it back in the box. Then looked at it again and again. The only cycling I have time for is in and out of the box. It does work really well as I haven't dropped it yet. :D
Will get to it after the holidays. Thx for your patience.

allied armament
December 20, 2010, 01:45
Cool, I figured everyone was just busy. This is gonna be a rough holiday season, with every holiday being on the weekend. No ones gonna get any rest after work this year.

Psychomonkey
December 26, 2010, 17:09
Well,

After the debacle with the U.S. Post Office I decided I would go to the Portland Gun show and look for a drum. Tactical Ammunition had them just like James had stated. I bought one on the spot, and had no problem paying full price. I could have continued with my long drawn out group buy purchase, but it hardly seemed worth any further effort once I had one actually in my hands.

Now for some details:

The drum is a fine piece to behold and has the feel of a quality item. I had some interference issues with the mag well. Jaflowers and gska3873 made mention of the same thing. I broke out the dremel and removed a little material. The drum now fits great. I removed the firing pin, filled the drum and hand cycled through the entire thing...no problems.

Fast forward a couple of weeks

I took the FAL out today for some foul weather shooting and tried out the drum.

The first few rounds went fine when I fired it. I then handed the weapon to my father-in-law to try. He rapid fired 3 sets of 3 rounds, and it then jammed. The round had "nosedived" and would not travel forward after moving 1/4" from the aft end of the drum. I removed the drum, and inspected it. The bullet did not appear to be making contact with the front of the drum (above the mag catch), however the round did not want to move forward at all. I released some of the spring tension and re-seated the round. Upon re-seating the round the nose of the round rode visibly higher in the well of the drum.

At this point the wind had picked up and the rain was coming down in buckets. The test firing will be continued in the near future. I will also make sure to get some pictures.

Merry Christmas, and a happy New Year to everyone...
Now I'm going to tinker with my drum..


John

Psychomonkey
December 26, 2010, 17:49
Looks like the drum fits a little loose. If the drum moves just a little bit toward the stock, then the front portion of the drum above the mag catch sits too low, causing the round to jam below the feed ramp. What to do...
I'm not really in the mood to deal with any TIG welding right now. Hmmm

allied armament
December 26, 2010, 18:53
It looks like your right there in Portland Oregon, give our engineer an email. alliedscott@gmail.com and he will get you taken care of. If you ask him he can put you in contact with some of our old factory smiths or you can come out to the shop and he can get you fitted.

Originally posted by Psychomonkey
Looks like the drum fits a little loose. If the drum moves just a little bit toward the stock, then the front portion of the drum above the mag catch sits too low, causing the round to jam below the feed ramp. What to do...
I'm not really in the mood to deal with any TIG welding right now. Hmmm

allied armament
December 26, 2010, 18:55
It will be a win win for both of us if you contact him, he can get measurements for your mag catch so we can get us standard deviation for manufacturing.

gska3873
December 26, 2010, 20:02
Originally posted by Psychomonkey
Looks like the drum fits a little loose. If the drum moves just a little bit toward the stock, then the front portion of the drum above the mag catch sits too low, causing the round to jam below the feed ramp. What to do...
I'm not really in the mood to deal with any TIG welding right now. Hmmm

Psychomonkey, What type and magwell cut receiver is on your FAL that you tried the drum in?

Psychomonkey
December 26, 2010, 21:58
gska3873,

It is a DS Arms Type 1 receiver. I bought one of their STG58's a few years awhile back. I'll try shooting an email to the engineer as was suggested. I have to log off, so I won't be able to get into details with him tonight.


Thanks for the help.


John Harris

Psychomonkey
December 27, 2010, 20:30
I just sent an email to the engineer. I told him I'd be interested in taking my drum and rifle to him for measuring.


John

allied armament
December 28, 2010, 02:05
Awesome, let us know how it goes. He is a very easy going guy and very very smart, especially when it comes to weapon systems.

Originally posted by Psychomonkey
I just sent an email to the engineer. I told him I'd be interested in taking my drum and rifle to him for measuring.


John

moses
December 28, 2010, 15:58
Very possible it is just the mag catch is slightly out of spec, I wouldn't go changing any dimensions of the Drum.
I'd try a new/different mag catch as some have been molested/modified.
It's a cheap part that is readily available.

allied armament
January 04, 2011, 18:01
Did you make it in to visit our shop?

Originally posted by Psychomonkey
I just sent an email to the engineer. I told him I'd be interested in taking my drum and rifle to him for measuring.


John

gska3873
January 05, 2011, 16:21
Any word on the Inch pattern inserts for these?

allied armament
January 05, 2011, 20:16
Were still measuring dimensions from various rifles. Were probably a month out on building individual inserts as we need to have a meeting with DSA to see what all changes were looking at with various models. To date we've seen about 3 major differences that we will have to account for.

Originally posted by gska3873
Any word on the Inch pattern inserts for these?

def90
January 07, 2011, 10:27
Originally posted by gska3873

Video in use
<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid228.photobucket.com%2Falbums% 2Fee107%2Fdizzydad73%2FMVI_1179.mp4">

I think you hit it.. :biggrin:

gska3873
January 07, 2011, 10:40
Originally posted by def90


I think you hit it.. :biggrin:

Problem is, I needed all 50 rounds to do so!!!:D

moses
January 07, 2011, 18:51
Wish I could empty a 50 rd drum standing in my drive way!!!!

gska3873
January 07, 2011, 20:23
Originally posted by moses
Wish I could empty a 50 rd drum standing in my drive way!!!!

I wish I could too, would be nice to pay the neighbor "kid" back for all the loud music in the middle of the night!!! I do most of my shooting at a friends parents, where this was taken, or at my in-laws.

By the way Moses, thats a barrel you shortened for me a couple years ago. I would say it functions pretty darn well!!!

ptalar
January 09, 2011, 19:57
Originally posted by allied armament
For an extra $6 I can include a modified bolt hold open, so you do not have to modify the one in your gun.

Or you can order it here:

http://www.dsarms.com/L1A1-Bolt-Hold-Open-without-pin-Good-to-Very-Good---478/productinfo/478/

Malarkey,

Is the L1A1 BHO device a drop in replacement for the Metric BHO device? I just remove the screw and drop, remove the metric BHO and drop in the L1A1 BHO device? Please advise. I assume they are interchageable for fit but not function. But the L1A1 BHO will not interfere in operation of the metric fal other than not keeping the bolt open after the last round is fired. Please confirm.

ptalar

allied armament
January 09, 2011, 22:16
You are 100% correct.

Renovator
January 09, 2011, 22:18
I'm installing the L1A1 BHO on my DSA Type 1.

It drops in fine, the through screw is binding when tightening. (As if my screw is not perfectly straight.)

I believe the width of the opening in these inch BHO's are less than that of the one BGS I have on hand.

So, you may need a bit of filing on the insides of the BHO's slot, so it actuates freely.

Psychomonkey
January 10, 2011, 15:06
Originally posted by allied armament
Did you make it in to visit our shop?



Sorry for the delay in responding. Yes, I visited the shop and Scott took some measurements. Scott made me an insert and made some minor adjustments. The drum now fits nice and snug. When cycled manually the drum worked flawlessly. I still haven't had a chance to test fire the weapon but plan on doing so soon. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

jugrunner
January 14, 2011, 17:45
been watching this for some time now ... it's refreshing to see everyone working together on this product !! ... R&D at it's finest ... :bow: ... the folks at Allied seem like a "good bunch" ... :biggrin:

when the few minor bugs are worked out I'll own one !! ... or two ... :wink:

ETA: I would like to see more reviews ... ??????????? ...

ETA #2: I still want the Billet version !!

allied armament
January 15, 2011, 02:19
I check this daily to see if there are more reviews, so far its been pretty limited. I've sold a lot more outside of this group buy about 20 fold and all the feedback has been good, but definitely would like to see more from the guys in this bunch.

As for the billet units, it will happen :biggrin:


Originally posted by jugrunner
been watching this for some time now ... it's refreshing to see everyone working together on this product !! ... R&D at it's finest ... :bow: ... the folks at Allied seem like a "good bunch" ... :biggrin:

when the few minor bugs are worked out I'll own one !! ... or two ... :wink:

ETA: I would like to see more reviews ... ??????????? ...

ETA #2: I still want the Billet version !!

M62/M76
January 15, 2011, 07:37
Yes, we need more feedbacks!

Grinder
January 16, 2011, 16:03
Sorry for the delay in my review. This is my busy time at work.

Manual was clear and well written
Quality of parts and manufacture/ machining is excellent.
I tried it in 3 of my most used various rifles= all work 100% with standard mags
#1. My GL Imbel with mint matching stg kit I built way back when= fits snug in magwell, but does not latch
#2. A para parts gun built on a good widows peak century receiver=doesn't fit in magwell. Tight at front
#3. My DSA LW carbine I built with STG and DSA parts
Fits snug in magwell and latches tight= needs a tap with palm of hand to latch
Interference noted on right side as listed in above review
I used this as my first testfire rifle

Temp = 25 degrees F
Ammo = '76 Port
25 rounds smooth as silk.

I just have to decide if I need to shorten the mag latch pad or the interference area on the right side to fit the Imbel

I will test for fit and function in some of my other rifles when time permits
Thanks

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/FAL_drum.jpg

allied armament
January 16, 2011, 16:13
That is a dirty girl! I like that color combination alot. I would recommend filing just a hair off the rear latch on the mag and should lock up in all of your guns. Keep us posted. Thanks for the report.

jugrunner
January 16, 2011, 19:29
that's cool as hell Grinder !! ... :biggrin:

ptalar
January 23, 2011, 15:58
I just got done fitting my drum to my metric fal. I was pissed at first having to do all this grinding to get it to fit but its worth it. I am going to have to send it back to Allied Armament for recoating. It will be an extra charge. I really had to man up to do the grinding with the dremel and a sanding drum tool. The drum required a lot of adult supervision on the sanding.

Does anybody know the Oregon address of Allied Armament so I can mail it up there for recoating?

Pictures attached below of the rifle and the drum.

ptalar/Phil

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/XFAL%20Drum%20Fit/DSC00758.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/XFAL%20Drum%20Fit/DSC00757.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/XFAL%20Drum%20Fit/DSC00756.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/XFAL%20Drum%20Fit/DSC00755.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/XFAL%20Drum%20Fit/DSC00754.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/XFAL%20Drum%20Fit/DSC00753.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/XFAL%20Drum%20Fit/DSC00752.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/XFAL%20Drum%20Fit/DSC00751.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/XFAL%20Drum%20Fit/DSC00750.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/XFAL%20Drum%20Fit/DSC00749.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/XFAL%20Drum%20Fit/DSC00748.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/XFAL%20Drum%20Fit/DSC00747.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/XFAL%20Drum%20Fit/DSC00746.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/XFAL%20Drum%20Fit/DSC00745.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/XFAL%20Drum%20Fit/DSC00744.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/XFAL%20Drum%20Fit/DSC00743.jpg

nyquil
January 23, 2011, 18:45
When will the metric version be ready?

jaflowers
January 24, 2011, 18:54
Okay. Finally had time to take this drum to the range and run some rounds through it. Here is my report.

1. Initial impressions of quality are that it is built very well and the finish is excellent. It did need a little bit of filing off the rear magazine catch to allow lockup in all 3 of my FAL's. Once that was done it locked up tight.

2. Firing was done in my Coonan Arms receivered FAL. This rifle functions flawlessly with all my 20rd surplus magazines as fast as you can pull the trigger. Out of the first 50 rounds loaded in the drum only a few actually fed and fired, the rest completely jammed up. I double checked the rifle with a quick 20 rounds from a surplus mag, no problems. I also noticed how much higher the rounds in the surplus mag sat in the receiver than the ones in the drum mag. I re-loaded the drum with 30 rounds and tried it again. This time I applied upward pressure on the front of the drum, it has roughly 1/16th of an inch of play. When pressure was applied upwards to the drum it worked perfectly. When I would remove pressure, i.e. holding the rifle by the forearm, the drum/rifle jammed up on almost every single round. I re-loaded the drum again with 50 rounds and let her rip while applying upward pressure at the front of the magazine. It fed flawlessly and burned through all 50 rounds.

3. Conclusion.... well I guess that remains to be seen. The drum, if in the gun properly, seems to run like a champ which seems to me to be the tough part for the design team. Now it just needs some tweaking to fit correctly in my rifle. I'm still going to check it in my G series and my FN HB to see if it seats up higher in the receiver so feeding will work smoothly. If not I'll be in touch with the designers to see if they can correct it or send me another.

Here are a few pictures of it in my Coonan receiver and also a couple close ups showing where it needed support to function.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/jaflowers/DSCF3608.jpg
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/jaflowers/DSCF3606.jpg
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/jaflowers/DSCF3609.jpg
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/jaflowers/DSCF3610.jpg

ptalar
January 24, 2011, 20:53
Originally posted by jaflowers
.

3. Conclusion.... well I guess that remains to be seen. The drum, if in the gun properly, seems to run like a champ which seems to me to be the tough part for the design team. Now it just needs some tweaking to fit correctly in my rifle. I'm still going to check it in my G series and my FN HB to see if it seats up higher in the receiver so feeding will work smoothly. If not I'll be in touch with the designers to see if they can correct it or send me another.




I have not test fired the drum. As a result of my fitting of the drum to the rifle it does not require a lot of force to insert into the mag well nor does it require a lot of force to remove it. It fits snuggly into the mag well. So I hope I don't have your problem with having to hold the mag up into the well in order for it to feed correctly.

moses
January 25, 2011, 16:38
Jaflowers, sounds like maybe you took a little too much off when you filed it and now it sits too low.
What type of feeding problem does it have when you don't put upward pressure on it?

jaflowers
January 25, 2011, 17:25
Originally posted by moses
Jaflowers, sounds like maybe you took a little too much off when you filed it and now it sits too low.
What type of feeding problem does it have when you don't put upward pressure on it?

Moses,
When I did the initial fitting I used a VERY small swiss file and took off very small amounts of metal till the magazine catch just clicked/locked the magazine into place. NO deremel and NO power tools used at all. I was very cautious/worried about removing too much so I really took my time doing it so as I wouldn't mess it up. The ONLY metal touched/removed was from the rear latching point on the drum.

The feeding problem..... As the rounds sit in the drum they are more on the right side, when looking down on the magazine facing foward, and contact the slanted face of the drum when feeding into the rifle chamber. The round will go foward past/off the slanted feed face of the drum and immediately jam in the rifle just to the right and below the two feed ramps machined into the rifles receiver. A light upwards pressure to the front/bottom of the drum causes the round to then chamber, even after it has jammed. I'm hesitant to "touch up" the feed ramps on my Coonan receiver gun until I confirm that it won't hurt the rifle or me. I'm guessing that it would only need about 1/32 to 3/64 of an inch of ramp metal removed low and to the right for it to function perfect. I will not remove and metal from my G series or my FN Heavy Barrel, that's out of the question. Still a bit of measuring and inspecting to do before I proceed with an attempted solution.

gska3873
January 25, 2011, 17:54
Is the front lip on the drum actually engaged into the notch in the receivers magwell?

On the inch pattern receivers that I have tried the fit of the drum in it will do the same thing. It will "feel" like it is fully engaged into the receiver (minus the up and down play of course) , but if you look at the front of the drum it may not be engaged due to overall length.

allied armament
January 25, 2011, 18:53
I'm going to have our engineer review all of this. The first question will be identical to this one, we may need to send you a different front insert. Depending on the specs there are about three different front inserts were going to need to make. The inch pattern guns seem to have the largest pocket in the front of the receiver. I will let you know his response and what we will need to do to get your gun rocking 100%. Thank you for the feedback this is all great stuff. We appreciate all of it.

Originally posted by gska3873
Is the front lip on the drum actually engaged into the notch in the receivers magwell?

On the inch pattern receivers that I have tried the fit of the drum in it will do the same thing. It will "feel" like it is fully engaged into the receiver (minus the up and down play of course) , but if you look at the front of the drum it may not be engaged due to overall length.

jaflowers
January 25, 2011, 19:26
Okay. Here are some pictures of my drum and it in action...... or lack there of.
First picture is of the rear of the drum showing just how much metal I removed to get it to latch in.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/jaflowers/metalremoved.jpg
Next we have where the point of the bullet is deflecting against the front ramp of the drum. Sometimes it will hang here if I do not apply upward pressure at the bottom front of the drum.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/jaflowers/loadedmag.jpg

Here it is, jammed in the gun, against the feed ramp of the magazine.
Best picture I could get of it without removing the DSA scope cover(a pain).
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/jaflowers/roundshittingmagface.jpg
Lastly here it is jammed up with the point of the round just a hair below and to the right of the feed ramps of my receiver. This is what I described in my earlier post.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/jaflowers/roundshittingunderfeedramp.jpg

I think if the front insert latching point were just a bit lower it would force the magazine up in the front and it would run smooth for me. Maybe this is something Allied can look at. Possibly shipping all 3 of the front insets you have made with each magazine so each purchaser can "custom fit" it to their rifle. Just a thought. Still a work in progress for me.

ptalar
January 26, 2011, 10:11
I would suggest that Allied/Xs take some sheetmetal magazines that fit L1A1 and Metric Fals of various receiver manufacturers like Enterprise and do a dimensionalysis of about 10 sheet metal magazines to get a nominal dimension and a tolerance for manufacture. That way they could be assured that the cast aluminum or machined drums they make work with metric and L1A1 Fals without any modifications. Allied/Xs should of been more thorough in their approach on developing design requirements for the design effort.

These magazines should be interchangeable and replaceable without any modification. That is one of the hallmarks of weapon design. Especially rifle magazines.

Well, I sent my drum up to Allied/Xs in Oregon for recoating. They should receive it today in Oregon. I sent it priority mail. I will report findings on the recoating and how much it cost me for recoating on this thread.

jaflowers
January 26, 2011, 13:15
Well just to check I removed the bolt hold opens on my G series and FN HB and tried the drum in them both. Manually cycling the bolt with a full drum installed, neither of the original FN rifles had any jams or problems. The magazine does seem to lock up tighter in them both, no upward pressure needed for them to cycle perfectly. Guess I'll have to look at my Coonan receiver a bit more and decide if I need to do a little work to the feed ramp. Any suggestions or advice would be very much appreciated.
Here's a little FAL porn for everyone.
Original G Series FN/FAL
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/jaflowers/DSCF3628.jpg
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/jaflowers/DSCF3627.jpg
Origianl FN Heavy Barrel
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/jaflowers/DSCF3633.jpg

ptalar
January 26, 2011, 13:41
Originally posted by jaflowers
Well just to check I removed the bolt hold opens on my G series and FN HB and tried the drum in them both. Manually cycling the bolt with a full drum installed, neither of the original FN rifles had any jams or problems. The magazine does seem to lock up tighter in them both, no upward pressure needed for them to cycle perfectly. Guess I'll have to look at my Coonan receiver a bit more and decide if I need to do a little work to the feed ramp. Any suggestions or advice would be very much appreciated.
Here's a little FAL porn for everyone.
Original G Series FN/FAL
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/jaflowers/DSCF3628.jpg
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/jaflowers/DSCF3627.jpg
Origianl FN Heavy Barrel
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/jaflowers/DSCF3633.jpg

I changed out my Bolt Holding Device to the L1A1 style. That is all the changes I did and plan to do. Unless you intend to use the drum all the time, modifiying the mag well to fit the drum may render it inoperable for regular mags. Just a thought.

jaflowers
January 26, 2011, 14:28
Originally posted by ptalar


I changed out my Bolt Holding Device to the L1A1 style. That is all the changes I did and plan to do. Unless you intend to use the drum all the time, modifiying the mag well to fit the drum may render it inoperable for regular mags. Just a thought.

I have NO plans on modifying the magazine well in the one rifle that doesn't work right. I may do a little work on just the one feed ramp but that would be it. Have to wait till the weekend to play with it some more.

jaflowers
January 30, 2011, 12:25
Well I compared the feed ramps on my two original FN rifles to my Coonan receivered FAL. The length of the ramps were almost double on the FN's than on the Coonan. This explained why I needed to push upwards on the magazine for it to fully function in my Coonan. I did a little ramp work with my trusty Dremel, I hate using that on a gun but somtimes it's necessary, and now the drum functions perfectly in all my FAL's.

In summary, I'm very happy I purchased the drum magazine. It seems to be a very well built product and fills the role I wanted it for. It also brought to light an out of tolerance issue on my Coonan. Thanks James for all your help and advice.


Jason

ptalar
January 30, 2011, 15:57
My drum is back up in Oregon getting recoated. James and Scott are going to test fire the drum to make sure it feeds properly. I really appreciate that since I did not test fire it after fitting the drum to my rifle. That is good customer satisfaction at work. I don't mind taking a risk when I know the factory is going to help me make it happen.

I will report back on the recoating when I get the drum back.

allied armament
January 31, 2011, 12:28
That is good information to know. Ramp work on AR-15's is a very common practice. For the beginner here is a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMe0_HgkYEQ The fal however has the ramps built into the receiver, so its a completely different animal, however the underlying practice would still be the same.


Originally posted by jaflowers
Well I compared the feed ramps on my two original FN rifles to my Coonan receivered FAL. The length of the ramps were almost double on the FN's than on the Coonan. This explained why I needed to push upwards on the magazine for it to fully function in my Coonan. I did a little ramp work with my trusty Dremel, I hate using that on a gun but somtimes it's necessary, and now the drum functions perfectly in all my FAL's.

In summary, I'm very happy I purchased the drum magazine. It seems to be a very well built product and fills the role I wanted it for. It also brought to light an out of tolerance issue on my Coonan. Thanks James for all your help and advice.


Jason

nyquil
January 31, 2011, 12:41
allied armament:

Are you guys ever going to make this product a "plug and play" product for "metric" receivers? I'm not sure, but there seems to be a lot of us here with DSA "metric" receivers that are interested.

Thanks again for spending the time to work things out. Operating a small company myself gives me a better understanding of the resources and the commitment necessary to develop this product.

When you start selling thousands of these a month people will forget about how difficult (and costly) this product was to develop.

Good luck either way.

jaflowers
January 31, 2011, 15:22
Originally posted by nyquil
allied armament:

Are you guys ever going to make this product a "plug and play" product for "metric" receivers? I'm not sure, but there seems to be a lot of us here with DSA "metric" receivers that are interested.



So far as I can tell, all of the initial group buy drums are for metric receivers. The one I have fits in my G series, Stery import FN Heavy Barrel and my Coonan. All of them are metric receivers.

ptalar
January 31, 2011, 15:34
Originally posted by jaflowers


So far as I can tell, all of the initial group buy drums are for metric receivers. The one I have fits in my G series, Stery import FN Heavy Barrel and my Coonan. All of them are metric receivers.

My FAL is metric and it has been a pain in the a_ _. But were making progress.

allied armament
January 31, 2011, 23:38
Well that is the ultimate goal, but with so many manufactures it makes it really hard. Luckily the people on this forum have been very resourceful to help us get the data sets we need.


Originally posted by nyquil
allied armament:

Are you guys ever going to make this product a "plug and play" product for "metric" receivers? I'm not sure, but there seems to be a lot of us here with DSA "metric" receivers that are interested.

Thanks again for spending the time to work things out. Operating a small company myself gives me a better understanding of the resources and the commitment necessary to develop this product.

When you start selling thousands of these a month people will forget about how difficult (and costly) this product was to develop.

Good luck either way.

ptalar
February 14, 2011, 09:10
Malarkey,

When am I getting my drum back?

allied armament
February 17, 2011, 12:01
Replied to email.

Originally posted by ptalar
Malarkey,

When am I getting my drum back?

gska3873
February 17, 2011, 12:14
Any word yet on when the inch pattern inserts will be ready for these?

allied armament
February 20, 2011, 02:56
We have a large backlog of drum orders, once they are filled we will begin making the inserts. I'm not sure of exact dates, but I will post when we are ready.

kwthor
February 22, 2011, 19:33
I received my drum in Dec and have just now been able to get some time to look at it. While I was waiting I ordered a BHO from DSA so I would be ready when the time came. It looks like a British Mark III type BHO (see post #71).

For starters, I agree that initial impressions are very favorable as to finish and what looks like a very durable and rugged construction. The manual is concise and to the point in the first few pages so one can begin to use the drum with minimal introduction. It also has more info in succeeding pages if additional details are needed. I would like to see a definition of “break-in” for the lubrication and trouble shooting sections.

Fal: STG-58 on Entreprise receiver
Ammo: CBC 1976 7.62 FMJ

The initial insertion into the magwell was very tight. I had to push the front section in with some little force in order to get the insert into locking lug in the front of the mag well. This scraped some of the finish from the mag tower and front insert. It also deformed some of the sharper corners of the mag tower. I did not do any filing or scraping. When seated the drum feels like it locks in nice and snug. I did not have the clearance problems pictured in post #112. The rear mag catch lever locks perfectly into place on the drum. The following pictures show wear patterns related to mag insertion of drum into an Entreprise metric receiver with bolt closed.

http://s1110.photobucket.com/albums/h448/kwthor1/xfal-review/?action=view&current=DSCN0656.jpg
http://s1110.photobucket.com/albums/h448/kwthor1/xfal-review/?action=view&current=DSCN0656.jpg#!oZZ2QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2F s1110.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh448%2Fkwthor1%2F xfal-review%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DDSCN0648.jpg

Can't seem get pics in here :(

allied armament
February 22, 2011, 21:42
Email me the photos and I'll post them for you: James@alliedarmament.com

Originally posted by kwthor
I received my drum in Dec and have just now been able to get some time to look at it. While I was waiting I ordered a BHO from DSA so I would be ready when the time came. It looks like a British Mark III type BHO (see post #71).

For starters, I agree that initial impressions are very favorable as to finish and what looks like a very durable and rugged construction. The manual is concise and to the point in the first few pages so one can begin to use the drum with minimal introduction. It also has more info in succeeding pages if additional details are needed. I would like to see a definition of “break-in” for the lubrication and trouble shooting sections.

Fal: STG-58 on Entreprise receiver
Ammo: CBC 1976 7.62 FMJ

The initial insertion into the magwell was very tight. I had to push the front section in with some little force in order to get the insert into locking lug in the front of the mag well. This scraped some of the finish from the mag tower and front insert. It also deformed some of the sharper corners of the mag tower. I did not do any filing or scraping. When seated the drum feels like it locks in nice and snug. I did not have the clearance problems pictured in post #112. The rear mag catch lever locks perfectly into place on the drum. The following pictures show wear patterns related to mag insertion of drum into an Entreprise metric receiver with bolt closed.

http://s1110.photobucket.com/albums/h448/kwthor1/xfal-review/?action=view&current=DSCN0656.jpg
http://s1110.photobucket.com/albums/h448/kwthor1/xfal-review/?action=view&current=DSCN0656.jpg#!oZZ2QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2F s1110.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh448%2Fkwthor1%2F xfal-review%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DDSCN0648.jpg

Can't seem get pics in here :(

allied armament
February 23, 2011, 01:44
Here are the photos:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/shadyirishmen/DSCN0656Large.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/shadyirishmen/DSCN0649Large.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/shadyirishmen/DSCN0648Large.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/shadyirishmen/DSCN0653Large.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/shadyirishmen/DSCN0650Large.jpg

Inch Mag compared to a Metric to illustrate the difference between the lugs.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/shadyirishmen/DSCN0666Large.jpg

L/FN
February 23, 2011, 11:38
Regarding filing on the drums rear catch that engages the mag catch lever.
Maybe the way to go on this issue is to shape the top of the drum so it will sit high enough so the catch catches. Lowering or having the back of the drum low is more likely to cause the bolt to ride over the round.

jaflowers
February 23, 2011, 12:43
Originally posted by L/FN
Regarding filing on the drums rear catch that engages the mag catch lever.
Maybe the way to go on this issue is to shape the top of the drum so it will sit high enough so the catch catches. Lowering or having the back of the drum low is more likely to cause the bolt to ride over the round.

That is one issue that I havenot had with mine at all. After the initial filing/fitting of the rear catch the drum has worked perfect in my FALs. Never have had the bolt fail to pick up a round from the magazine.

moses
February 23, 2011, 16:10
I would honestly say the problem here is most likely the Entrepeise receiver more so than the AA drum. Just looking at the pics you can see the quality of the machining of both the receiver and the drum. The drum I think is the clear winner. I have worked on many an Entreprise receiver and most have been out of spec in at least one area.

On more than a few occasions we have had to weld & file the mag catch to make it longer in order to keep the mag high enough in the Entreprise receiver for it function correctly.
I plan on having a disclaimer for my mags that they are only guaranteed to work in FN, Imbel, DSA, Argie, and other FN licensed manufactured receivers.

I do not think AA should be taking any heat for their drum not working in an Entreprise, Century or some Coonan receivers. They cannot control the quality of those receivers and those receivers have had known issues over the years.

Weg, I think the best thing to do would be to insert the drum all the way and if the top of the drum is sitting flush with the bottom of the bolt rails and the mag catch lug is not engauging then it would be ok to file the lug on the drum to get the mag catch to lock.
If the top of the drum is not flush with the bottom of the bolt rails then it could cause a bolt over the round feed problem by filing down the mag catch lug.

There is no way AA can make a drum that will fit "in spec" receivers and "out of spec" receivers, and I do not think they should be expected to.

acpat
February 23, 2011, 17:56
I do not think AA should be taking any heat for their drum not working in an Entreprise, Century or some Coonan receivers. They cannot control the quality of those receivers and those receivers have had known issues over the years.


There is no way AA can make a drum that will fit "in spec" receivers and "out of spec" receivers, and I do not think they should be expected to.

+1

jaflowers
February 23, 2011, 18:29
Originally posted by acpat
I do not think AA should be taking any heat for their drum not working in an Entreprise, Century or some Coonan receivers. They cannot control the quality of those receivers and those receivers have had known issues over the years.


There is no way AA can make a drum that will fit "in spec" receivers and "out of spec" receivers, and I do not think they should be expected to.

+1

I agree, and as one of the ones partaking in the initial group buy I figured there would be some fine tuning needed. I will point out though that 2 of my FALs are 100% original FN's and the drum did not initially fit either of those until a little filing was done on the rear magazine catch. This was also true for my Coonan receiver FAL. Now, after a little bit of work and troubleshooting, it runs perfect in all three rifles and I'm very happy with it.:biggrin:

kwthor
February 24, 2011, 01:16
Originally posted by moses
I would honestly say the problem here is most likely the Entrepeise receiver more so than the AA drum. Just looking at the pics you can see the quality of the machining of both the receiver and the drum. The drum I think is the clear winner. I have worked on many an Entreprise receiver and most have been out of spec in at least one area.


+1

FYI, I bought this receiver in the late 90's so I don't know how it would compare with today's production.
I have attempted to continue testing the drum and found that bullets will not slide up the bullet guide. The guide is way too steep so the bullet tip jams into the ramp and stops. How do I determine the correct angle for both left and right feeding? (BTW, I also tested this with regular metric mag).

ptalar
February 24, 2011, 22:10
Originally posted by acpat
I do not think AA should be taking any heat for their drum not working in an Entreprise, Century or some Coonan receivers. They cannot control the quality of those receivers and those receivers have had known issues over the years.


There is no way AA can make a drum that will fit "in spec" receivers and "out of spec" receivers, and I do not think they should be expected to.

+1

I have a metric fal receiver by enterprise on my fal and I have had no issue with installing any sheet metal mag in my receiver. I only had a problem with the allied armament drum. I was able to modify the drum to get it to fit but I ended up butchering it. The expectation is Allied Armament needs to make the drum fit like any sheet metal mag. I don't expect Allied Armament to design for defective receivers that are mismachined and are way out of tolerance, but then the gun may not work anyway. But I do expect AA to make a drum magazine that works with all metric receivers that are built to spec. and within tolerance. That is the expectation.

allied armament
March 01, 2011, 18:24
Now that were starting to catch up from shot show were going to be working on the FAL for inserts and whatever improvements we need to make. Kwthor, can you pm your contact information I'm going to have our engineer contact you.

ptalar
March 05, 2011, 10:39
Originally posted by allied armament
Replied to email.



Malarkey,

Any status update on when I am getting my drum returned to me?

allied armament
March 06, 2011, 02:06
Hey I was just gonna fire you back an email. I should have an answer Monday.

ptalar
March 08, 2011, 22:43
Originally posted by allied armament
Hey I was just gonna fire you back an email. I should have an answer Monday.

I never heard back????

allied armament
March 25, 2011, 16:49
Allied Armament now xs-products is building a new website and they want customer supplied photos and videos of guns and drums. Please email the content to: james@xs-products.com

They plan to have a contest for best photo and best video. The prize is not determined yet but keep that in mind.

Thanks Guys

James Malarkey

gska3873
April 14, 2011, 08:27
Are we ever going to see the inch pattern inserts for these so they will work in inch pattern receivers as originally advertised for the group buy?

allied armament
April 19, 2011, 21:22
Yes Yes Yes, were just waiting for production to catch up before we put them on the burner. We also just did some full auto testing we are going to have some higher spring tension drums available soon for the guns running short full auto guns.

denny
April 20, 2011, 01:03
Still want an L1a1 & metric combo.
Denny

ptalar
April 23, 2011, 16:46
Here is my FAL w/Drum from Allied Armament.

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/FAL/DSC01077.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/FAL/DSC01076.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/FAL/DSC01075.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/FAL/DSC01074.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/FAL/DSC01073.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/FAL/DSC01072.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/FAL/DSC01071.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz96/ptalar/FAL/DSC01070.jpg

allied armament
April 25, 2011, 00:06
That is one sweet looking piece!