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gates
October 25, 2010, 20:19
to all the stuff I post here, pick out what you agree with, and for God's sakes, pass it on to your friends and family - the word MUST be spread. There will be NO change until people wake up! - contrary to what Bill thinks I am about, armed REVOLUTION is the LAST thing I, or ANY responsible citizen wants - if we can fix this WITHIN the system it's our responsibility to TRY!!

Bama Steve
October 25, 2010, 20:32
Ain't many "Responsible Citizens" left any mores - they is about a 48%/52% split and the low-end of the balance is cheatin' big time at the poll's.

If the responsible majority don't get what they turned out for this go around I'm thinkin' about a relocation of responsible souls to either a different country or a different sort of social order - however that needs to come-about.

I'm just really hoping that the next pandemic is a quick and merciful affliction . . .

:rofl:

Bawana jim
October 25, 2010, 20:37
Been gone a few weeks to get away from the barage of bad news. bought a fast harley and have been riding in the country.. Came back and nothing has changed, didn't exspect it too either. The election will tell the beginning or the end, hope you all stick around to see it:rofl: :rofl:

jim

gates
October 25, 2010, 21:27
I do NOT want to be forced to shoot fellow Ameicans - I'll do it, but if there is ANY way to avoid that we MUST try!

gates
October 25, 2010, 21:34
I know that Bama and it makes me profoundly sad...

Time to take a few weeks off.

Bawana jim
October 25, 2010, 21:37
Originally posted by gates
I do NOT want to be forced to shoot fellow Ameicans - I'll do it, but if there is ANY way to avoid that we MUST try!

You are going to have to define "American".

jim

gates
October 25, 2010, 21:58
Misguided folk like Bill! I will do it but cry like a baby after it's done! we MUST try to avoid this!

Bama Steve
October 25, 2010, 22:14
"Nobody's right, if everybody's wrong"

Step out of line, the man comes take you away".

:wink:

DABTL
October 26, 2010, 06:57
Originally posted by gates
Misguided folk like Bill! I will do it but cry like a baby after it's done! we MUST try to avoid this!

Right. It takes a real man to kill his fellow countrymen for their own good. Just keep rationalizing your insanity, it will all become clear soon.

M90A1
October 26, 2010, 09:12
Nope, insanity is trying the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results, like has already been done. This would be an entirely different tack. And, who said anything about "for their own good"? Some should consider the possible consequences of their actions.

DABTL
October 26, 2010, 10:36
Originally posted by M90A1
Nope, insanity is trying the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results, like has already been done. This would be an entirely different tack. And, who said anything about "for their own good"? Some should consider the possible consequences of their actions.

A really good point. Start shooting and see if someone doesn't kill you first.

M90A1
October 26, 2010, 11:06
You must be a really poor shot, or be tactically challenged, if that's the outcome you'd expect. :eek: ;)

DABTL
October 26, 2010, 11:08
Originally posted by M90A1
You must be a really poor shot, or be tactically challenged, if that's the outcome you'd expect. :eek: ;)

You might want to observe before jumping on the lunatic band wagon.

RG Coburn
October 26, 2010, 11:10
Originally posted by gates
Misguided folk like Bill! I will do it but cry like a baby after it's done! we MUST try to avoid this!

You won't even have to. They will willingly fall upon their own swords for obama.
Some will do it without being asked.

RG Coburn
October 26, 2010, 11:12
Originally posted by DABTL


You might want to observe before jumping on the lunatic band wagon.

We observed before leaping aboard the hopey-changey nutwagon. No leaping..No regrets...
Find his birth certificate yet?

MtnWulf
October 26, 2010, 14:05
Ultimately, it comes down to who will kill for their beliefs.

Whether for their freedom, as the American Patriots, or their religion, like the jihadists, or in the case of government, for power.

The government has already shown time and again they are willing to kill their own civilians when they contest government power and abuses.

A couple of posters here seem anxious for the government to start using MORE force against the citizens.

In the end the Founders were right, the Declaration of Independence spells it out, and the Bill of Rights confirms it.

We are responsible for our freedom.

As for the left, I now believe they are now Slavers. Their ideology is one of total control and enslavement. Maybe not with physical chains and shackles, but with laws and regulations covering every facet of our lives. And combined with financial slavery to banks, foreign governments and to the government itself thru taxation.

These paper chains will be the hardest to break.

:fal:

Bawana jim
October 26, 2010, 15:19
The progressives have hold of the system and are trying to force laws on us that should have been done by Constitutional Amendment rather that a one sided legistlative decree. If we don't take back from the progressives the peoples power then civil war is the ultimate outcome. At my age I will be interested in the outcome.

What happens should the progressives keep power is going to be funny when that power is turned on other progressives just like they turned on Juan Williams. The progressives will quickly turn this to another Nazi Socialist state.

Should the Repubs get power the people will constantly have to flush out the traitors to the constitution. As long as we can vote we still have that option.

jj

MtnWulf
October 26, 2010, 16:58
I have no faith the Repubs will do what is necessary.

I hope I am wrong.:fal:

alant
October 26, 2010, 17:00
Whoa there fellas, let's calm down a tad okay.

You don't like the results of the last election, wait a couple of years and try again. That's the way we do it here. If you can't deal with the results of elections you're living in the wrong country.

If a law is unconstitutional we have a process for figuring it out. It does take some time (a few years in many cases), but it works. Not everyone agrees of course, but they accept the decisions as legitimately arrived at.

There are a lot of people who have sworn to uphold the Constitution. Many of them have their own opinions about what is and isn't right, but for the most part they place their trust in the processes we have to sort thru these things.

Do you think the Democrats were happy with Bush, that they thought he was always acting within his constitutional authority? Hell no they didn't.

Did you hear them talking about secession or saying they would start shooting to get their way? No, you didn't.

Don't be too disappointed if a Republican legislature doesn't grant your top 3 wishes like it was a genie. Expect them to pay homage to THEIR special interests, THEIR backers. If a few Tea Party folks get elected along the way I expect they will be marginalized or co-opted by the GOP.

Don't be surprised if Obama moves to the center shortly after the election. He won't give up health care because he sees that as a huge part of the fiscal calculus, but he might come up with some centrist plans to bring spending back in line with revenues (cut spending AND increase revenue). He may offer a "grand compromise" which will not be to the liking of either party, but without some compromise on both sides we aren't going to get any agreement.

gates
October 26, 2010, 17:04
Alant this isnt about being unhappy with the last election - this is about feeling disenfranchised by the politicians refusing to do THE PEOPLES bidding - regardless of party - IF the Repubs take over AND things stay the same we will see what happens - this is not an R or D thing.

Bama Steve
October 26, 2010, 17:30
It was never about "D" nor "R".

Its about what is right/equitable and fair concerning the effort/risks applied by all involved.

That dichotomy is where we all seem to differ on approach to social/economic problems.

Them that wants something for nothing versus those that produce something of real tangible value.

Working for any level of government is a tax-based profession and produces little if anything at all save those in combat/support roles.

Suing people lines the pockets of only the lawyers - no-one else benefits from a productivity viewpoint in such an effort.

We are so off-track as a species/nation/culture/country as to make one wish to . . .

:rofl:

RG Coburn
October 26, 2010, 18:10
Originally posted by alant


Did you hear them talking about secession or saying they would start shooting to get their way? No, you didn't.


Uhmm...yes we did.

Bama Steve
October 26, 2010, 18:28
Yeah, and them beat-downs at election places were all the rage by the left, weren't they?

:biggrin:

Look inside your side of the equation . . . you know who you are - you just don't realize how bad you don't want to awaken this tiger any more than you have already - pushed the limit so far that you think you can push a lot further . . .

Get a grip or lose it all.

But that is they way junkies and socialized societies roll - and they all die miserably.

Have fun and be safe out there - its a real ******* world you're dealin' with you liberal ****-heads.

:biggrin:

MtnWulf
October 27, 2010, 07:42
Whoa there fellas, let's calm down a tad okay. Alant

Worried? I think most Americans have moved from being pissed off to being at a state of calm, cool and reasoned anger at what's going on.

That means they are going to act, and do so at the polls next week and they will expect RESULTS.

This is America, we will do whatever is necessary to preserve our freedoms and all the benefits thereof.

If this bothers you then maybe you should find some overseas socialist paradise to move to.

Cuba is a short boat ride away.:fal:

alant
October 27, 2010, 18:56
Originally posted by gates
Alant this isnt about being unhappy with the last election - this is about feeling disenfranchised by the politicians refusing to do THE PEOPLES bidding - regardless of party - IF the Repubs take over AND things stay the same we will see what happens - this is not an R or D thing.
Not about R's and D's? Then WTF does this quote mean?

Originally posted by gates
Misguided folk like Bill! I will do it but cry like a baby after it's done! we MUST try to avoid this!
It will make you cry, but the ones you are going to be forced to shoot are folks like Bill! Now maybe I misunderstand what you mean by "folks like Bill" but it sure looks like those would be the D's "this isn't about".

Better watch out, God may have to turn your ankle.

gates
October 27, 2010, 19:23
I think I clarified that idea in another thread - I wouldnt shoot Bill unless he had joined a mob marauding down my street seeking to loot pillage and rape - if that were the case yep - I'd blast him. The background was that if things don't get fixed we will collapse and the leechfuks - most happen to yes - be Democrats -( though I'm not going to be checking party affiliation if that happens) would have their foodstamps and welfare checks cutoff and start rioting. More likely, the checks will NEVER be cut off - they just won't have any purchasing power.

alant
October 27, 2010, 20:36
Post collapse marauding leechfuks are fair game in most people's book. I had this picture of you shooting liberals from a helicopter for sport or bounty.

http://padresteve.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/liberal-hunting.gif

gates
October 27, 2010, 20:40
Nah - Bankers yes - a well behaved Liberal - nope. Actually I take the Banker part back - they will probably be hung from lamp posts:-)

Bama Steve
October 27, 2010, 22:24
The useless are shaking in their underwear in 80 degree temperatures. . .

I hope the true winds of change coming will sweep them from our sight.

Alant - go fvck yourself and take your position with you.

That is all . . .



:wink:

gates
October 27, 2010, 23:04
Steve - problem or solution - don't propagate the former - it may feel good but it is counter productive. If you disagree thats cool - just don't do it in MY threads - I'm looking for solutions bro - not tired partisan BS.

Bama Steve
October 27, 2010, 23:44
I don't mean to present any more problems, Gates - on the contrary.

I do however see a correctable mindset within those who support a social welfare mentality while having not made any attempt to better themselves in the process.

I will be quiet for now and accept your request as long as the useless do likewise.

:rofl:

(ain't gonna happen).

gates
October 28, 2010, 00:58
Steve go read my "Wake Up" post in politics... you're falling into the trap.

Bama Steve
October 28, 2010, 01:13
Read it but you seem to think we are all alike while we are obviously not at this point.

Take the powers that-be outta the equation and the chasm still remains.

We are either a Constitutional American Republic or we are a fragmented bunch of multi-nationalists with separate cultures.

This ain't political.

That's the part you are missing or I am over-focusing upon . . .

gates
October 28, 2010, 01:57
Bro - there are TWO levels of reality going on here - FIRST, and at the TOP - TPTB - THEIR goal is to strip the wealth from the middle class - same same in the 1930's - THAT group would be the bankers facilitated by the POLITICIANS they bot - the SECOND level of reality is how they control the PROLS - that would be US -

YOU are focused on the LATTER - we are ALL American's - first and foremost! and we are being ROBBED! you are concentrating on the minutiae! which is EXACTLY where they want your focus to be!- they WANT you to hate on the scum sucking illegal alien getting freebies from the state or the octomoms state handouts! - who EXACTLY do you think made those benefits available in the first place dude? you're being played! go read and watch those links I posted - you CANNOT refute what I posted after you see that! shit, 60 SMART people have viewed that thread so far and not ONE! has tried to challenge what I posted - why ? because it's the TRUTH!

Go back and read that retired IMF Official's piece I posted - It describes what is happening here TO A TEE! - this is not new stuff - it's been happening around the globe on a regular basis for a LONG time! the difference with US is the SCALE!

DABTL
October 28, 2010, 05:58
It takes a real man to decide which of his fellow countrymen to kill because he disagrees with them on politics.

You guys seem to be working on a list and checking it twice.

The problem, seems to me, is what happens if your fellow countrymen decide to defend themselves?

The last time anyone was as stupid talking as you guys, and then acted on the stupid talk, around 700,000 died.

But, then, it was worth it, I suppose. No one polled the dead on the matter.

MtnWulf
October 28, 2010, 07:43
It takes a real man to decide which of his fellow countrymen to kill because he disagrees with them on politics. Dumb Ass Bill The Libtard

Yep, Just like Clinton and Reno killing all those kids at Waco. But at least they aren't being "abused" anymore.

You guys seem to be working on a list and checking it twice.

I think the feds and their lefty supporters have been working on that for a long time. How many 4473s have you filled out, and have been turned into the ATF when your dealer closed his business?

The problem, seems to me, is what happens if your fellow countrymen decide to defend themselves?

Kinda funny. How many PETA and NOW nags have firearms and the training to use them? Everyone knows that you lefties will use the gov't to do your dirty work as you all are cowards.

The last time anyone was as stupid talking as you guys, and then acted on the stupid talk, around 700,000 died.

Yep, and Lincoln was a Republican too. Of course he did serve your purpose by strengthening the Federal government and killing off independent states. Bet your real proud of that. As for the 700K, just collateral damage for statist thugs.


But, then, it was worth it, I suppose. No one polled the dead on the matter.

You apparently think so, using it to flog southerners about slavery, which no one has done for over 140 years. Maybe you should poll blacks and ask them if they think it was worth it.

Then ask them why they support democrats who were the party of slavery.

gates
October 28, 2010, 08:51
Bill - you have not been listening or I have a problem communicating - there will be no armed revolution in this country - people are too apathetic, too fat, too distracted - so NO I don't think this will happen - IF we have an economic collapse that interrupts the food chain and zeros out peoples life savings then yes - people will probably react violently - and some will probably end up being shot - thats the only circumstance I could see using that kind of force - self preservation.

Bawana jim
October 28, 2010, 09:04
Originally posted by gates
Bill - you have not been listening or I have a problem communicating - there will be no armed revolution in this country - people are too apathetic, too fat, too distracted - so NO I don't think this will happen - IF we have an economic collapse that interrupts the food chain and zeros out peoples life savings then yes - people will probably react violently - and some will probably end up being shot - thats the only circumstance I could see using that kind of force - self preservation.

I suspect what makes him nervouse is people may not want to lose everything first before they turn to self preservation. When you look at who has caused this problem progressives have alot to fear:biggrin:

When you have people in charge doing this too you and can't vote them out are you going to let your family starve or force the evil bastards out? Will people turn on their neighbors or on who put us here? The vote this tuesday may just kick the can down the road but my opinion is people will do everything legal first but they will get control of the government.

jim

TheJokker
October 28, 2010, 09:11
http://www.oftwominds.com/blogoct10/grand-strategy10-10.html

Here is the key point I wish to emphasize: we will not "get" inflation or deflation by chance or mechanistic functions, but by a series of policy choices which will be made to benefit the Financial Power Elites and their functionaries in the Central State.

As I noted in Hyperinflation Is a Political Process (October 21, 2010), any policy which is driving inflation can be reversed politically at any time. Thus there is nothing inevitable in the current system except the following:

Demographics and the intrinsic limits of exponentially rising debt and consumption dictate that the status quo will implode at some point in the near future. Historical cycles suggest the point of implosion will occur around 2021-2022, but nothing is written in stone.


1) there is a political component.

2) nothing is written in stone

3) political agendas are advanced by the majority party

the lesson of the tea party: it is possible for the citizens to demand change. everybody must commit to supporting and demanding the difficult and painful changes necessary. oppose the socialist policies making our country vulnerable to the economic turmoil occurring today and demand fiscal responsibility for tomorrow. change will come slowly but it is possible for dramatic change to occur over the next 10 to 15 years. it will take steadfast commitment.

gates
October 28, 2010, 09:14
Jim - IMO, it's gonna take ALOT more to get us to the "French" solution - first of all people need to understand what has been done to them - and who did it! I suspect we're a long way from that point.

gates
October 28, 2010, 09:20
Jokker - you are correct but ignore the other half of the equation - the current and coming batch of Republicans are JUST as bought off as the Dems - I'll say it again - go find me ONE Republican candidate that talks about the REAL issue - the fact that Banks and special interests run our country - they have committed the fraud of the century on the American people yet NOONE - on either side - has even MENTIONED the crime OR prosecuting those that robbed us - WHY do you think that is sport?

Bawana jim
October 28, 2010, 09:25
"French" solution

Then Americans will have to ask themselves are they ready to lose everything including the future of their families before they take the steps that need to be done.

What we have is a situation much like haveing a deadly snake around the house. Do you wait to get bit and die or do you address the snake with proper recourse:D The election is just throwing the snake out the door. Would the world be better off if the snake was thrown out of the country?

jim

Bawana jim
October 28, 2010, 09:29
Originally posted by gates
Jokker - you are correct but ignore the other half of the equation - the current and coming batch of Republicans are JUST as bought off as the Dems - I'll say it again - go find me ONE Republican candidate that talks about the REAL issue - the fact that Banks and special interests run our country - they have committed the fraud of the century on the American people yet NOONE - on either side - has even MENTIONED the crime OR prosecuting those that robbed us - WHY do you think that is sport?

The big guys have money and will spend it to make you lose if they think they are threatened. Telling people you are after them (and meaning it for real) tends to put people on the defensive. Get elected first then do what has to be done. However I too have little faith that the newbies will have the courage to do what has to be done.

jim

gates
October 28, 2010, 09:33
Jim - it's really just a normal cycle - go read that IMF piece again, he lays out the mechanics of how we got here - we just happen to be in the latter stages of this cycle, when we purge the system the cycle will start again and our great grandchildren will get their own K Winter - the question at hand is do we purge peacefully like Russia or do we go French - I'd lay a wager on the former.

Bawana jim
October 28, 2010, 09:45
The problem is in my opinion very complex. Far more complex than you would want to have a discussion about especially since you and I have no power to fix it. It would be time wasted and I would rather be like you spending that time doing things that count.

Your list of solutions are at best temporary. For men to control their own destiny they need government and ALL others who control the purse strings out of their lives. Teaching people to stay out of debt would change all our lives and take the power out of the bankers hands along with the government.

Money is power but if I can tell the banker to fug off then he has lost his power. If I can tell the government to leave my money alone then they lose their power. Right now both are stealing our power and wealth and are createing slaves of us. The French solution would end this quickly but like you say the country doesn't have the stomach for it...yet.

jim

gates
October 28, 2010, 10:01
Pragmatic fellow - me too.

Bawana jim
October 28, 2010, 10:13
The tool the government and banks have used to drive this country to slavery is inflation. Government creates it and banks control it. Destroy the governments ability to create inflation and people could build real wealth and power in their families. Look at prices over the long term and who benefitted.

Unfortunately for government the inflation bubble is on the edge of bursting. It will free the slaves but they won't have enough to eat. It's a big wreck comming more than a cycle. If it were a cycle then it may be fixable but government and the banks have pushed it too far. They know it and are buying commodities like crazy.

They know that when hyperinflation hit's it will be what you have in your possession that is the only wealth you have. Why do you think the groups traveling around the country are buying all the collectables?

jim

gates
October 28, 2010, 10:18
Jim in a credit based economy you MUST have inflation or the system collapses - the trick is to keep it at around 2% - if you don't have inflation you don't have an expanding money supply - you can't REPAY the interest on the debt and it goes BOOM - THAT is why the Fed and banks fear DEFLATION so much - good for the people - kills the banks:-)

Bawana jim
October 28, 2010, 10:36
Originally posted by gates
Jim in a credit based economy you MUST have inflation or the system collapses - the trick is to keep it at around 2% - if you don't have inflation you don't have an expanding money supply - you can't REPAY the interest on the debt and it goes BOOM - THAT is why the Fed and banks fear DEFLATION so much - good for the people - kills the banks:-)

Like I said, I believe it is the system that led to debt slaves. Look where this type of economy took us. You may think you have wealth because you have money but that can dissapear overnight. Then they make you start all over. I believe that the only real wealth is in tangibles. If you don't have it in your possession then it will leave your power at their will.

In my opinion China and every other country we have debt with has companies here in America buying our tangibles for dollars they know are either going to be worthless or worth little. They may start buying land when it gets cheap enough but right now people have been set up to lose all their possessions by inflation.

jim

Bawana jim
October 28, 2010, 10:47
Being simplistic here:biggrin: I wanted a new Harley so I started looking. The model I wanted was about $14,000 new. I don't use credit so I had been saveing cash up to buy it (easily done since I have no debt). Well I found an add in the newspaper that had a 09 in the model I wanted.

I went to the guys house and the bike had 22 miles on it. He was 82 and had made his fortune in realestate but his health failed him right after he bought the Harley. I bought it for $9,000 cash. No banks involved and very little government intervention (lic and title)

My point is if man is out of debt then he is free to use his wealth for his enjoyment. Debt is what keeps inflation going. People get out of debt and the world is theirs.

I don't believe I am taking from your op but giving the answer to the whole state of affairs. If we are out of debt then we have the power to vote on our taxes and the ability to not use the banks, both of which run our lives if we are in debt.

jim

gates
October 28, 2010, 11:11
Nope - I agree with you - the PROBLEM is that we have had wage stagnation over the last 20+ years so tptb decided HEY if we can't have wage growth - because of "free trade" "globalization" wage arbitrage lets blow bubbles that give the unwashed masses the IMPRESSION they were getting ahead - most people would have bought that Hog with their HELOC because they don't make enough money or have enough self control to AMASS any SAVINGS - problem today is the HELOC is gone and whatever equity you THOUGHT you had has gone POOF... oops... now what.

Bawana jim
October 28, 2010, 12:17
Just exspressing your point in my thinking, it's their game and if you play it you lose. I chose to not play their game. I saved money to get into a house and paid it off in 12 years. I gave myself a big raise by paying it off and saved a ton of money. All the money I bring home now is mine and I have no fear because I have no debt.

As you said there was no getting ahead by going in debt, only the banks win.

Stagnation to a man out of debt isn't a big problem. Like I said I gave myself my biggest raise by paying off the house. I have real purchasing power now:D

However I believe the real trick is going to be getting through Hyperinflation. It is all going to be timing and wheather the country exsplodes or not.
When they hit us with the hyper it should drain the wealth very fast in America. The big guys will hide their wealth overseas and use it to buy all they can after inflation wipes out the nation.

Keeping the needs under control so inflation doesn't wipe you out early ie buying food supplies and all the commodities ahead of inflation. Useing money to pay taxes on the home rather than haveing to waste it with inflation. (57 mpg on the hog so I won't care about the price of fuel :rofl: )

So your original post ask what things we would pass on we think are important and to pass them on. I feel I am ahead of the curve and looking back, best to get out of their game.

jim

gates
October 28, 2010, 12:31
Thats good advice.