Obamunist & Environazis Want Cars to Achieve 62MPG by 2025

[SWOHFAL]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-epa-mileage-20101002,0,6803161.story

Welcome to one cylinder Smart Cars for everyone and another good reason to toss these POSs out. :rolleyes:

[martin35]

Will I still be able to leave it idling with the A/C on outside of Walmart while I shop?

[RG Coburn]

Cars should be getting that now. Its all the parasitic crap the engines have to power that nixes gas milage. I sold an old straight 6 engine to guy who had a Henry J,early 1950's. With the 4 banger in it,he could average 35 mpg.Thats 60 year old technology,with 6 volt ignition,carb,and points.
Strip vehicles of all the useless crap,make spartan cars with spartan options,and you will see mileage climb.

[JasonB]

If a car can be made that produces 305hp @ 31mpg today (Ford Mustang) I don't think improving on that should be too much of a problem nor would a car producing 152.5hp @ 62mpg be much of a burden.

As someone pointed out, the current way of doing it appears to be that we are being forced to subsidize people's lifestyles, perhaps just another form of corporate welfare. Very, very stripped down vehicles that can be repaired easily by teh operator with simple tools are still sold on the world market, but not here.

[Eric Bryant]

I would not expect the other party to do anything differently with regards to fuel economy standards. Keep in mind that the 35 MPG standard for 2016 was passed on Bush's watch. Like so many other areas of our government, there is an entrenched bureaucracy that will continue to do what they do, regardless of which party controls Congress and the White House.

I'm curious to see how the industry deals with 2016, seeing as how that is only one model cycle away. 2025 is then only two model cycles past that. Without some sort of major re-think of the passenger car, I really don't see this happening - at least not within the realm of mainstream offerings. But if you're offering a handful of electric cars with a fuel efficiency of infinite MPG, then I guess the average fleet numbers will work out fine :D

Originally posted by JasonB
If a car can be made that produces 305hp @ 31mpg today (Ford Mustang) I don't think improving on that should be too much of a problem nor would a car producing 152.5hp @ 62mpg be much of a burden.

The math doesn't quite work out that way.

[mutter]

Let's see:

1980's Geo Metro: 58 mpg

2005 chevrolet Metro:28 mpg

1967 Ford E100 supervan with 4.9 liter(300 straight six) 18 mpg

2005 Ford pickup with 2 liter 4 banger: about 18 mpg

Hmmm, I guess our engineers are getting stupider as they add more crap.

I've always wondered how a car can be eco friendly when you add enough worthless crap to the motor that you cut efficiency in half and thereby double fuel consumption.

[357ross]

It really doesn't matter who is in the white house, as far as the auto industry is concerned, it's the epa we have to deal with. The epa is who sets these arbitrary mpg numbers, and it is the epa who made it impossible to work on your own engine. In my opinion, this is one of the worst out of control agencies we have. They were a nessesary evil years ago, but have outlived their usefullness, and are now are becoming a master we must bow down to.

[xtremerange]

Good.

If your car runs on US produced natural gas or US produced electricity, then do whatever you want.

Stop sending money to the Middle Eastern countries to support terrorism, or to Venezuela to support that dictatorship. Even if the oil refined to make gas and diesel comes from Nigeria, Canada, Mexico or other friendly countries, taking that oil off the market makes the price higher so the terrorists still get the money.

The US can produce enough oil for our plastics and petro chemical industries.

[L Haney]

Originally posted by xtremerange

The US can produce enough oil for our plastics and petro chemical industries.

I'm not sold on that. Natural gas liquids, ethanes, are the major feed stock for plastics production. Methane itself is the major feed stock for fertilizer and explosive production, which we use truly huge amounts of. And we are well down the path of new base load electrical generation that runs off of natural gas. And two of those demands use huge amounts of methane. I just cannot believe the sustainability numbers I'm hearing tossed about. During peak demands, our national pipeline infrastructure HAS to deliver well above 100% of design capacity. So far, it has done so. But downsizing will have an effect, which will show at the worst possible time. Put a few extra blankets in the closet.

[indy_Muaddib]

1907 model T 25 mpg

2007 Crown Vic 25 mpg

anybody see a problem with this?

[Brett]

Cars are too damn heavy these days. If I remember correctly Honda S2000 two seater 2800 lbs. Subaru WRX 3800 lbs. Mustang GT was 2 tons, now 3800 lbs. Mini Cooper S was 2300, now 2700 lbs.

[John Culver]

Originally posted by indy_Muaddib
1907 model T 25 mpg

2007 Crown Vic 25 mpg

anybody see a problem with this?

No, its called emissions and safety standards, NEITHER of which the Model T would meet, nor will any car from the 90's

You can make a very efficient car but it will NOT meet the emissions standards, you can also make a car that has very little emissions but it will have little power and not great mileage.

This is the main problem with bringing diesels to the US, emission laws forbid them.

Much of the equipment in moderns cars cannot be removed, it is federally mandated safety equipment. Multiple airbags, ABS, side impact protection, rollover protection, stability control, ALL federally mandated now.

[RG Coburn]

What sense are emissions laws if you have to burn twice or more the amount of fuel to acheive it?

[cowbilly]

C'mon guys, it is the government, what could possibly go wrong.

[randy762ak]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q81/randy762ak/the-new-cars-demotivational-poster-.jpg

It really doesn't matter who is in the white house, as far as the auto industry is concerned, it's the epa we have to deal with. The epa is who sets these arbitrary mpg numbers, and it is the epa who made it impossible to work on your own engine. In my opinion, this is one of the worst out of control agencies we have. They were a nessesary evil years ago, but have outlived their usefullness, and are now are becoming a master we must bow down


The things I would do to the enviro Nazis is un printable here !! All the liberal anti gunners who are enviro nuts got jobs through there buddies at EPA==You think you will find one conservitive at the EPA--No way...

[JasonB]

Originally posted by randy762ak


It really doesn't matter who is in the white house, as far as the auto industry is concerned, it's the epa we have to deal with. The epa is who sets these arbitrary mpg numbers, and it is the epa who made it impossible to work on your own engine. In my opinion, this is one of the worst out of control agencies we have. They were a nessesary evil years ago, but have outlived their usefullness, and are now are becoming a master we must bow down


The things I would do to the enviro Nazis is un printable here !! All the liberal anti gunners who are enviro nuts got jobs through there buddies at EPA==You think you will find one conservitive at the EPA--No way...

Not sure if any of them have ever been necessary. I don't think it has ever been legal for a pee on to take their household waste and haul it over to the nearest business owner's property and dump it without running afoul of numerous traspassing laws so it seems applying that in the opposite direction on the social ladder would have been one way of dealing with the problem without a single new agency.

[jerrymrc]

Has anyone thought of the flip side of this?

My Take. Not going to get into actual numbers but you will get the idea.

So 2010 cars get 20 MPG and gas is $2.50-$3.00 per gallon.

2017 and cars have to get 50 MPG. gas is $3.00-$3.50 per gallon.

2020 rolls around and gas is $3.75 per gallon. Our leaders raise the tax $3 per gallon because the new cars are getting such great MPG that we can raise the tax because you are still paying the same amount to drive the same distance that you did 10 years ago.

Of course people driving older cars are SOL. Go by a new one the leaders will say.

Just a thought looking at where we are going.

:eek: :beer:

[Bama Steve]

I had posted a similar postulation upon running an experiment with different grades of gasoline recently.

I get more miles per tank with 93 octane than I do for the same quantity of 87 octane.

The cost in MPG is roughly the same regardless of the $/Gal.

They had this figured out long ago and now they have reduced our MPG by going back to Ethanol . . . for additional cost.

The big corps own the .gov and the .gov is crooked as hell for doing so.

The problem is neither of them - it is collectively us for allowing it to continue.

[Heat]

Originally posted by Brett
Cars are too damn heavy these days. If I remember correctly Honda S2000 two seater 2800 lbs. Subaru WRX 3800 lbs. Mustang GT was 2 tons, now 3800 lbs. Mini Cooper S was 2300, now 2700 lbs.

I think my 73 GMC 1Ton standard cab, 8ft bed pickup weighs 4,800lbs dry..new trucks outweigh it by quite a bit..lots of body moulding, big seats..big everything
and I hear guys complaining about the mpg..not much better than my carb 350..simply put, people drive too darn much, comes with having to much time for leisure and fiddle-farting around. I use my truck for hauling to dump, getting groceries..not cruising

[V guy]

Before I retired, I was forced to drive a natural gas Honda Civic. The thing would only go 120 miles between fill ups and FAR less at 70 mph. It had a 5 gallon tank.
It also was flat out at 70 mph. Natural Gas or methane is a poor idea for motor vehicles.

I rented a car a few weeks ago for a 1000 mile round trip; rented a car from Enterprise--4 days unlimited mileage for $114.00. How can they do that?

Anyway, they gave me a Hybrid. I did not know what a Hybrid was--it was a Toyota Prius.

Aside from the strange dashboard and wierd controls, it was ok-- I drove it 75 mph all the way on cruise and got 47 mpg!!
I finally became aware that it had an electric motor and a 4cyl engine, I think.

I am an an old hot rodder with a heavy foot, and it was ok as far as I was concerned. I drove it hard like a 4 cyl car has to be driven, always on the floor, and then back to cruise-- and road raced it a bit---has a bad push on off ramps, but it really stops--amazing brakes.

So- it can be done and might be ok as long was we can still have our old cars as a hobby.

[Eric Bryant]

Originally posted by indy_Muaddib
1907 model T 25 mpg

2007 Crown Vic 25 mpg

anybody see a problem with this?

Yeah - the Crown Vic has windows, heat, AC, a radio, will cruise at 75 MPH in comfort, and won't kill you in an 20 MPH accident.

[Stranger]

Originally posted by mutter
Let's see:

1980's Geo Metro: 58 mpg

2005 chevrolet Metro:28 mpg

I didn't think they made "Metros" after 2001. Are you talking about the abortion they call a Chevy Cobalt?

Anyway, the '94 three cylinder Metro engines made by Suzuki were still getting those number (~50 mpg). Our '98 four cylinder Metro still pulled a respectable 40 mpg.

[Stranger]

Originally posted by cowbilly
C'mon guys, it is the government, what could possibly go wrong.

LOL!

[evan price]

If you look at cars today versus cars 20 years ago- emissions is 95% better or so. Cars produce a lot more horsepower than they did 20 years ago. Remember the 1984 Ford 5.0 motor? What was that, 135 horsepower in a V8?

They were inefficient and poorly designed.

Now cars are so much better designed that 200,000 miles on the odo isn't a death sentence. It's not uncommon to have a commuter car with 200+ horsepower.

People buy horsepower, not fuel economy.

If people would realize that they don't need as much car, then they could get better MPG. How many times do you see people commuting to work by themselves with a 3/4 ton 4x4 truck that's never had the tailgate down or had a hitch hooked up to it or been further off road than to wax it? Do you need 300 rwhp to commute to work?

The Hybrid thing is a joke. Great for in the city. I could get 30+ MPG on a 3800 V-6 powered Bonneville and never set the cruise less than 75 mph with the A/C cranking and a nice ride.... A good economy car like the VW Golf or the Civic HF got 45+ mpg. Why spend a hybrid price tag for not much more mpg?

[John Culver]

Originally posted by evan price


If people would realize that they don't need as much car, then they could get better MPG. How many times do you see people commuting to work by themselves with a 3/4 ton 4x4 truck that's never had the tailgate down or had a hitch hooked up to it or been further off road than to wax it? Do you need 300 rwhp to commute to work?



Thats the problem, I dont need, or want someone (ESPECIALLY the govt) telling me what I need.

If I want to drive a 1-ton duallie to pick up a gallon of milk, thats MY choice, not yours, not the govts.

Are there more efficient ways to get a gallon of milk? sure, but thats not your choice to make, its mine.

[leek]

Switch to direct injected diesels and 62 mpg can easily be hit. VW jetta TDI , Ford mondeo and fiesta TDi diesels beat that standard now in 2010.

[SWOHFAL]

Originally posted by leek
Switch to direct injected diesels and 62 mpg can easily be hit. VW jetta TDI , Ford mondeo and fiesta TDi diesels beat that standard now in 2010.

But they keep bumping emissions standards to make this all but impossible.

[Heat]

Originally posted by John Culver


Thats the problem, I dont need, or want someone (ESPECIALLY the govt) telling me what I need.

If I want to drive a 1-ton duallie to pick up a gallon of milk, thats MY choice, not yours, not the govts.

Are there more efficient ways to get a gallon of milk? sure, but thats not your choice to make, its mine.

Now comrade, that type of attitude will NOT help you advance in the party!

[Heat]

Originally posted by W.E.G.
We're going to run out of gas sooner or later ANYWAY.

The sooner we use it up, the sooner all those "alternative fuels" are going to become a reality.

Right?

So bring back the fugkin' General Lee, and quit stiffing us with those pussy-mobiles.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/trivia/generallee.jpg
Screw MPG and EPA---I wanna drive this to the market:
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hjoCT6YvNnE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hjoCT6YvNnE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[John Culver]

Originally posted by SWOHFAL


But they keep bumping emissions standards to make this all but impossible.

yup and with the new ULS Diesel requirement its even harder.

Fuel injectors in the cat, EGR, urea injection, particulate filters in the exhaust, ESPENSIVE and heavy.

[evan price]

Originally posted by John Culver


Thats the problem, I dont need, or want someone (ESPECIALLY the govt) telling me what I need.

If I want to drive a 1-ton duallie to pick up a gallon of milk, thats MY choice, not yours, not the govts.

Are there more efficient ways to get a gallon of milk? sure, but thats not your choice to make, its mine.

I won't tell you what to buy- this is America!

But don't complain when gas goes to $5 a gallon.

Big boy rules.

(From the guy driving a 16 MPG Jeep Cherokee with 300,000 miles on it- I drive what I want to drive!)

[John Culver]

Originally posted by evan price


I won't tell you what to buy- this is America!

But don't complain when gas goes to $5 a gallon.

Big boy rules.

(From the guy driving a 16 MPG Jeep Cherokee with 300,000 miles on it- I drive what I want to drive!)

haha yup

oh and we aint running out of oil either, we are running out of places to ban drilling in though

Heck just today another 28 billion barrels of extractable oil was discovered in Iraq.

[Munster30]

Originally posted by SWOHFAL
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-epa-mileage-20101002,0,6803161.story

Welcome to one cylinder Smart Cars for everyone and another good reason to toss these POSs out. :rolleyes: Even worse is the White House ordering the private sector.

[evan price]

Originally posted by John Culver


haha yup

oh and we aint running out of oil either, we are running out of places to ban drilling in though

Heck just today another 28 billion barrels of extractable oil was discovered in Iraq.

We're not really running out of oil right yet, we're just running out of places where you can put a fence post in the ground and have a gusher hit you in the eye. The oil that is left will take more effort, more energy, and more creativity to extract.