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Heat
September 26, 2010, 17:25
I Am Detained By The Feds For Not Answering Questions

http://knifetricks.blogspot.com/2010/04/i-am-detained-by-feds-for-not-answering.html

RT
September 26, 2010, 18:46
he should have told her he was there for sex. and to smoke opium.and he had a blast, and China has woman cheap, and she should go 1 day.

2barearms
September 26, 2010, 18:48
During times like these it's best to pick your battles carefully.

shlomo
September 26, 2010, 19:32
Originally posted by 2barearms
During times like these it's best to pick your battles carefully.

Surely you don't mean to imply that we have anything to fear from the benevolent protectors of our freedoms?

L Haney
September 26, 2010, 19:51
Originally posted by 2barearms
During times like these it's best to pick your battles carefully.

I think the guy did. He knew what was required and what was out of bounds. Called 'em on it. They backed down.

ETA: What was disappointing was that the other people within earshot didn't speak up when this happened. Maybe a half dozen serious people reminding the official that it really wasn't their business would help educate them.
I've had few encounters with Customs and the like, but after one I had to remind them to stamp my passport. They had become "unsettled" during our conversation and didn't ink me back into the country. That can get sticky down the road if you have several foreign entry stamps and no returns in between. You don't want to explain that.

jaykden
September 26, 2010, 20:49
i'll tell ya what, after coming home from AU and flying for 14 hours, i normally have a 2 hour layover at LAX before heading north to alaska, the LAST thing i want to do is mess around just to prove a point.

sure, its the guys "right" to refuse to answer those questions, but for my part? i just want through asap to get to my next connection.

besides, what stopping the border officer from making a nice little note on his computer that might affect future international travel?

i mean, all you have to say is "pleasure" or "business"... aint that big o deal.


otoh, my wife had a run in with the border officers coming in from canada, they wanted to know where she had worked for the previous 4 years.

she was pissed because she had worked several different jobs in that time and couldn't think of them all, so instead of lying, she got angry and told them it was none of their business. bear in mind, she's an AU citizen and we had not met yet (about a month before we met) so she was just coming in with a tourist visa... well, they verbally jumped her and pulled the JBT crap with her and ended up making her cry. her friend she was traveling with was trying to cool things off for everyone.

they finally let her through, but oh was she royally pissed off....


i'll say one thing, they treat US citizens WAY better than foreigners

shlomo
September 26, 2010, 20:52
Originally posted by jaykden

i'll say one thing, they treat US citizens WAY better than foreigners

Perhaps one day when you are hanging by your thumbs, you can take comfort in the fact that the next guy is hanging by his balls.

JasonB
September 26, 2010, 21:10
Originally posted by shlomo


Perhaps one day when you are hanging by your thumbs, you can take comfort in the fact that the next guy is hanging by his balls.

Glad I wasn't reading this one with the morning coffee. You nailed it shlomo.

John Culver
September 26, 2010, 21:11
Originally posted by jaykden
i'll tell ya what, after coming home from AU and flying for 14 hours, i normally have a 2 hour layover at LAX before heading north to alaska, the LAST thing i want to do is mess around just to prove a point.

sure, its the guys "right" to refuse to answer those questions, but for my part? i just want through asap to get to my next connection.



Which is exactly what they want.

They prefer people who dont know or care about their rights.

The more rights they take away in the name of convenience, the more people get use to it, THATS the point here.

People get use to the idea that they are suppose to answer whatever the thugs ask, when in reality they dont. After a while they just change the law to remove that right, since people are use to not having it.

John Culver
September 26, 2010, 21:17
Originally posted by jaykden


i mean, all you have to say is "pleasure" or "business"... aint that big o deal.



No, thats a HUGE deal. Your answer to that question, your ONE WORD, can and WILL be used against you in a court of law!!!

Doesnt take much to say that since you did some 'work' on your pleasure trip, that you made a false statement, and off to court you can go

Its really best to say nothing to those who have the power to end your rights.

Read his followup:
http://knifetricks.blogspot.com/2010/09/10-brief-responses-to-700-comments.html

wpsuth
September 26, 2010, 22:42
Black helicopters, 11 o'clock high...

jaykden
September 26, 2010, 23:21
Originally posted by John Culver


Which is exactly what they want.

They prefer people who dont know or care about their rights.

The more rights they take away in the name of convenience, the more people get use to it, THATS the point here.

People get use to the idea that they are suppose to answer whatever the thugs ask, when in reality they dont. After a while they just change the law to remove that right, since people are use to not having it.

the point is, i just don't give a damn answering a coupla questions if it makes the process of getting through customs that much easier.

traveling is already a pain in the rear, you don't need to make it that much more difficult....

i DO know that i don't have to answer those silly questions. i know "my rights". but when you've been traveling with hardly any sleep from western australia (24 hours to that point) you are tired, you have a connection to make in 1.5 hours or you arn't making it home that night, that is NOT, I REPEAT, NOT the time to pick a fight with the JBTs over a stupid question.


and btw, the "thugs" don't change/make laws. thats what "lawmakers" are for...

:rolleyes:

jaykden
September 26, 2010, 23:23
Originally posted by shlomo


Perhaps one day when you are hanging by your thumbs, you can take comfort in the fact that the next guy is hanging by his balls.

that right there was funny, i don't care who ya'are...




:rofl: :rofl:

Heat
September 27, 2010, 00:03
I just read the follow up, have to agree with him, cops/LE/feds whatever, are NOT your friends..they are sworn to enforce a myriad of 'unlawful' laws and most of them dont care a whit about you, your rights, our history, our Constitution..they care about themselves and paying their mortgage and if they have to stick a flashlight up your ass and make you one miserable SOB then they will do it..I have NO sympathy for these volunteers who chose to work for our ever increasingly totalitarian govt..screw em

Heat
September 27, 2010, 00:05
Originally posted by jaykden


the point is, i just don't give a damn answering a coupla questions if it makes the process of getting through customs that much easier.

traveling is already a pain in the rear, you don't need to make it that much more difficult....

i DO know that i don't have to answer those silly questions. i know "my rights". but when you've been traveling with hardly any sleep from western australia (24 hours to that point) you are tired, you have a connection to make in 1.5 hours or you arn't making it home that night, that is NOT, I REPEAT, NOT the time to pick a fight with the JBTs over a stupid question.


and btw, the "thugs" don't change/make laws. thats what "lawmakers" are for...

:rolleyes:

It's interesting to know where you draw the line as to how important your rights and your heirs rights are..24hr flight with little sleep..wow!

SWOHFAL
September 27, 2010, 00:50
Originally posted by Heat


It's interesting to know where you draw the line as to how important your rights and your heirs rights are..24hr flight with little sleep..wow!


Yeah. You'll be up even longer than that in the detention center when they blast hard rock into your cell and keep the lights on 24/7 and the AC turned down to 60.

jaykden
September 27, 2010, 00:57
Originally posted by Heat


It's interesting to know where you draw the line as to how important your rights and your heirs rights are..24hr flight with little sleep..wow!

when did i tell you where i draw the line? huh?


you are that stupid as to think i'm "giving up all my rights" by answering a simple question of whether or not i traveled overseas for business or pleasure?


really?

wow...

that tin foil is killin brain cells....

:rolleyes:

Heat
September 27, 2010, 01:04
Originally posted by jaykden


when did i tell you where i draw the line? huh?


you are that stupid as to think i'm "giving up all my rights" by answering a simple question of whether or not i traveled overseas for business or pleasure?


really?

wow...

that tin foil is killin brain cells....

:rolleyes:

I didnt say it, you did..24hrs in a cushy seat while someone else flies your happy-ass back home was the line for you..just answer the questions so you can get to your warm bed..you said it, not me
No tinfoil hat need today partner, this shit is happening in 'realtime'--if you want to discount all this as conspiracy talk than explain it to the original author of the posted story and the countless others that get hassled

Heat
September 27, 2010, 01:09
Originally posted by SWOHFAL



Yeah. You'll be up even longer than that in the detention center when they blast hard rock into your cell and keep the lights on 24/7 and the AC turned down to 60.

tell that to the guys that sat for yrs in the Hanoi ****** and didnt roll over or the thousands that survived the Battan death march or the thousands that marched thru freezing temps and deep snow at Valley Forgebarefooted and lost toes, feet and their lives--this really highlights the complete pussification of this nations men, shit how embarrassing

John Culver
September 27, 2010, 01:40
when ya tired after a 24 hours of flights is a good time to really not answer their questions. As you'll likely forget something,, and there ya go, lying to a agent.

May not effect you then, but they can use it later

People need to stop thinking of federal agents as their friends. They exist to make you a criminal

Heat
September 27, 2010, 01:43
Originally posted by John Culver
when ya tired after a 24 hours of flights is a good time to really not answer their questions. As you'll likely forget something,, and there ya go, lying to a agent.

May not effect you then, but they can use it later

People need to stop thinking of federal agents as their friends. They exist to make you a criminal
Exactly!

evan price
September 27, 2010, 02:56
Originally posted by Heat


tell that to the guys that sat for yrs in the Hanoi ****** and didnt roll over or the thousands that survived the Battan death march or the thousands that marched thru freezing temps and deep snow at Valley Forgebarefooted and lost toes, feet and their lives--this really highlights the complete pussification of this nations men, shit how embarrassing

So telling a customs hack "Business or pleasure" is somehow right up there with being tortured in a POW camp?
SRSLY?

Best way to get through is to talk. Talk a lot. Tell them all about your trip. Even when they are waving you past. Just keep talking. Go over the menu. The waiters. Talk about the hotel and anyone you saw on the street. They'll gnaw their own arms off to get away from you.

shlomo
September 27, 2010, 04:38
"Just tell them something--any little piece of information."

"No, thank you. I'd rather die behind the chemical shed."

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/5000000/Evey-Imprisoned-v-for-vendetta-5083616-381-550.jpg

SWOHFAL
September 27, 2010, 05:22
Originally posted by Heat


tell that to the guys that sat for yrs in the Hanoi ****** and didnt roll over or the thousands that survived the Battan death march or the thousands that marched thru freezing temps and deep snow at Valley Forgebarefooted and lost toes, feet and their lives--this really highlights the complete pussification of this nations men, shit how embarrassing

Sorry, but severe sleep deprivation bypasses all the conscious centers of the brain that allow macho, stoic reactions to pain and deprivation. Why bother stringing someone up, working them over and hooking electrodes to his nuts when you can forget about them for a week or two with no sleep?

embatp
September 27, 2010, 10:50
great movie, shlomo....

jaykden
September 27, 2010, 14:38
Originally posted by John Culver
when ya tired after a 24 hours of flights is a good time to really not answer their questions. As you'll likely forget something,, and there ya go, lying to a agent.

May not effect you then, but they can use it later

People need to stop thinking of federal agents as their friends. They exist to make you a criminal

USE WHAT LATER??????



geeze, some of you guys are way off the deep end....

THERE AINT NO FRIGGEN CONSPIRACY THEORY WITH GOING THROUGH FRIGGEN CUSTOMS....


they ask a question or 2 and its on to the next person. legally you don't need to answer the question, but by the same token, it doesn't make it "illegal" for them to ask the question of what the purpose of your trip was. sure its wrong for them to push the matter, but they did let him go, right? i bet you are also against filling out the little entry card too... or have you ever even traveled internationally?


another thing, its really stupid to say that "all federal agents exist to make us all criminals"... thats just plain wrong. the customs officers exist to protect the border. you ever hear of border security much? oops, maybe you are against border security too!

John Culver
September 27, 2010, 15:59
Originally posted by jaykden


i bet you are also against filling out the little entry card too... or have you ever even traveled internationally?


another thing, its really stupid to say that "all federal agents exist to make us all criminals"... thats just plain wrong. the customs officers exist to protect the border. you ever hear of border security much? oops, maybe you are against border security too!

Actually you have to fill out such paper work to travel WITHIN the states now

No its not border security when you as a US Citizen are treated as a criminal.

Border patrol has the right to search/seize your laptops/phones upon entry without probably cause and without warrant. Thats not border security, thats criminal.

Heat
September 27, 2010, 18:24
Some people just plain dont get it--your a citizen, not a subject--show some testicular fortitude

English Mike
September 27, 2010, 19:31
I went through a version of this scenario back in May.

Seeing as I AM a furriner, answering their questions seemed like a good idea.
For some reason, they appeared to think I was planning on staying.:rofl:

shlomo
September 27, 2010, 19:37
Originally posted by English Mike

For some reason, they appeared to think I was planning on staying.:rofl:

Why should you be different from everybody else?

the gman
September 27, 2010, 21:29
Originally posted by shlomo


Why should you be different from everybody else?

He speaks (well almost, he does come from Cumbria...:wink: ) English not Spanish.........:]

EinheitElf
September 28, 2010, 18:13
All TSA people need to be BITCH SLAPPED, I once told one to back off when he got too close into my personal space.....thought I was going to get into a fight....

Once when traveling with my mom she had a coughing spell-has a med condition and they would not let her have a water with her...so she was turning red/purple..finally one said 'ok get her some water..I jumped the frikkin rope, another started giving me shiit like 10' away and started spouting about 'entering a security zone' i told hime he would be 'entering his grave' if my mom went down and said 'back the **** off '...he barely let me go..I was prepared to deck him instantly...

another time Customs gave me shit when coming back from England and was hesitating on stamping my passport...told him 'look just stamp it you are holding up the 200 people behind me......'

One day I probably will be on a no fly list since I am so sick of their shit...there is no joy in flying anymore.....

I thought of showing up in a bathrob,boxers and flipflops to my next flight...wonder what they would say..


Yea whoever they have at the airports are basically former burger flippers that are now on a power trip and seem to try anything to screw up a good mood or trip.

tuck0411
September 28, 2010, 18:53
Originally posted by John Culver


Actually you have to fill out such paper work to travel WITHIN the states now


Traveling from state to state? Where is that happening?

L Haney
September 28, 2010, 19:08
Hasn't anyone else noticed how TSA had KILLED the festive mood that used to be involved in vacation travel? People used to be in high spirits, babbling at you about where they were going or where they were coming back from. Not 'enny more! People look like they are on the way to the gulag. Looking at the floor, speaking in subdued voices, a general feel of anxiety permeating the crowd. Phuck that. Searching granny's New Balance sneakers ain't making my flight safer. We need an airline to go private. Sell memberships that closely resemble fares. Every flight a charter. Private gate with TSA invited to bugger off. Put one mean mama jama up front in the plane with a Mossberg for security. Don't think any type of radical will buy a membership for those flights. That starts to catch on, put the TSA right out of business.

Stranger
September 28, 2010, 19:43
Originally posted by tuck0411


Traveling from state to state? Where is that happening?

The USBP has jurisdiction up to 100 miles inside the border. So, if a USBP agent wants to perform an inspection anywhere inside that area he/she can.

tuck0411
September 28, 2010, 19:50
Originally posted by Stranger


The USBP has jurisdiction up to 100 miles inside the border. So, if a USBP agent wants to perform an inspection anywhere inside that area he/she can.

Yeah, I'm aware of that, living up here in WA state within 100 miles of the Canadian border. But that's a little different than having to "fill out such paper work to travel WITHIN the states" as Mr. Culver put it. Or at least it seems to be different as I've never been stopped at one of these checkpoints. Do they require you to fill out paperwork before you can continue on your way? Suspect I'd have to tell 'em where to stick their paperwork in that event.

Sig220
September 28, 2010, 20:12
Originally posted by Stranger


The USBP has jurisdiction up to 100 miles inside the border. So, if a USBP agent wants to perform an inspection anywhere inside that area he/she can.

Yep and maybe that helps keeping the illegals out.

What John Culver posted was, "Actually you have to fill out such paper work to travel WITHIN the states now"

Just what are you talking about?? Please hurry, as I have a trip "within" the states coming up in about 3 weeks!!:sleep:

Sig220
September 28, 2010, 20:14
I have been stopped at one of those checkpoints, produce your license and away you go.......or at least I did. Of course the checkpoint was on the southern border.

shlomo
September 28, 2010, 20:16
Originally posted by Sig220


Yep and maybe that helps keeping the illegals out.


:eek:




























:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Sig220
September 28, 2010, 20:24
Originally posted by shlomo


:eek:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You don't live in a border state do you?? I never have claimed we have the best border security, but I applaud any efforts that help. YMMV

shlomo
September 28, 2010, 20:37
Originally posted by Sig220


You don't live in a border state do you??

You think that makes a difference? We're up to our ass in illegal aliens here in the Atlanta area. Ya can't swing a dead cat in Chamblee or along Buford Hwy without knockin' down a dozen frijoleros. Roswell Georgia has ten times more aliens than Roswell NM ever thought about. And I ain't even started on the Russians and eastern Europeans.

And you wonder why I laugh.

Next time it rains, I'm gonna stick a quarter on top of my noggin. At least it'll help some.

Sig220
September 28, 2010, 20:46
Originally posted by shlomo


You think that makes a difference? We're up to our ass in illegal aliens here in the Atlanta area. Ya can't swing a dead cat in Chamblee or along Buford Hwy without knockin' down a dozen frijoleros. Roswell Georgia has ten times more aliens than Roswell NM ever thought about. And I ain't even started on the Russians and eastern Europeans.

And you wonder why I laugh.

Next time it rains, I'm gonna stick a quarter on top of my noggin. At least it'll help some.

You think they are worse there then in TX??:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

By your comment, I would think you think any effort to stop them is laughable.

For the most part I think THEIR efforts are laughable, but I sure ain't going to bitch when they try. I was talking to some INS agents one time and told them where they could load the buses with illegals yet they act like they are not interested........at least those two weren't.

shlomo
September 28, 2010, 20:56
Originally posted by Sig220
By your comment, I would think you think any effort to stop them is laughable.

No. I think meaningless efforts to stop them is laughable. I would applaud any effort that had an actual measurable effect. This is feel-good publicity.

Anybody who lives around here can name a dozen places where you could go with a squad and a bus, and pick up 12 to 50 illegals (each) any time you choose. When that starts happening--and regularly--I'll stop laughing at internal checkpoints that card Sig220 and me.

L Haney
September 28, 2010, 21:02
Originally posted by shlomo

Ya can't swing a dead cat in Chamblee or along Buford Hwy without knockin' down a dozen frijoleros.

Watch it there, bub. I like cats.

Sig220
September 28, 2010, 21:07
In my younger years, I and my south Louisiana girlfriend went across the border to Mexico on the way back we were at the border checkpoint when one agent pulled me to the side and asked if the girl in the car was American. (She was a tanned, dark haired beauty) The only answer I could come up with is to warn him not to ask her he didn't want to see what a pissed off coon ass would say or do. :uhoh:

That seemed to speed up business at the checkpoint and we were on our way!!

:rofl:

Beckman
September 28, 2010, 21:49
As far as I'm concerned, if those questions are voluntary, then you shouldn't be penalized for refusing to answer, as was Mr. Lukacs. However, by penalizing and detaining him, the feds made it clear that "voluntary" has a few different meanings.

It's one thing to voluntarily decide to answer voluntary questions, it's another thing to answer questions because you have a valid reason to believe that you'll be illegally detained if you refuse to answer. In the second case, you're being illegally coerced into answering a question. In Lukacs's case, he was definitely threatened with indefinite detention if he didn't answer the "voluntary" questions: It could be two, three, four hours. Hes gonna sit there until he cools down.

It would be one thing if the border agent had said, "The following questions are purely optional. You may either answer them or not." But that isn't what happened to Mr. Lukacs.

The reality is that voluntary is anything but, and illegal detention is used as a means of coercion in order to get compliance. I suspect that those who decide to answer -- and claim that it's no big deal to do so -- really mean that it's best to answer the "voluntary" questions instead of being illegally detained.

Heat
September 28, 2010, 22:59
isnt illegal detention punishable, sort of like kidnapping?

SWOHFAL
September 28, 2010, 23:12
Originally posted by Sig220



For the most part I think THEIR efforts are laughable, but I sure ain't going to bitch when they try. I was talking to some INS agents one time and told them where they could load the buses with illegals yet they act like they are not interested........at least those two weren't.

It's just like the WOD - if they were too successful, it would mean the end of lifetime employment and a reduction-in-force.

John Culver
September 29, 2010, 01:38
Originally posted by Sig220


Yep and maybe that helps keeping the illegals out.

What John Culver posted was, "Actually you have to fill out such paper work to travel WITHIN the states now"

Just what are you talking about?? Please hurry, as I have a trip "within" the states coming up in about 3 weeks!!:sleep:

Jail + fines if you do not fill out such paperwork before entering the state of Hawaii

There are also border checkpoints when entering the state of California (from nevada or Oregon) where you are required to stop and answer questions before entering.

LYCAN
September 29, 2010, 06:35
Originally posted by SWOHFAL



... when they blast hard rock into your cell and keep the lights on 24/7 and the AC turned down to 60.


who told you about my sleeping habits...

Sig220
September 29, 2010, 08:16
Is THAT all you got John??

I remember in my younger years being stopped at state border and them asking about produce, veggies and crap we might be carrying.

I have not been there (HI) but flying from LAX or any other airport in the US you do not have a US entrance form to fill out.


It seems you exaggerated your claim of "such" paperwork needed for travel "within states". When "such" paperwork is referring to the federal entry declaration.

martin35
September 29, 2010, 15:43
Kind of stupid to feel so inflated with self importance you have to give a official a hard time when they are doing their job in a way designed for the maximum security of their country, upon reentry I have always been asked if I visited certain areas of a country shown on my pass port where contagious diseases were reported and if shots were required I was once quarantined for 2 days not having one shot on my shot record insert, not every passport is legitimate I have been told, being a troubling making speed bump in line ahead of me would probably get some stern advice from me.

tuck0411
September 29, 2010, 15:59
Originally posted by John Culver


There are also border checkpoints when entering the state of California (from nevada or Oregon) where you are required to stop and answer questions before entering.

That much is true. Last time I visited CA via I-5 (probably more than 10 years ago) they were asking if I had any produce on board. Apparently, they're worried about bugs coming in on produce from out of state. I don't recall any other questions, though, but maybe they've added a few since I was last down there.

jaykden
September 29, 2010, 16:14
Originally posted by martin35
Kind of stupid to feel so inflated with self importance you have to give a official a hard time when they are doing their job in a way designed for the maximum security of their country


YOU SIR, HAVE GIVEN UP YOUR RIGHTS!!!!!!

:uhoh: :D

tuck0411
September 29, 2010, 16:19
Originally posted by jaykden



YOU SIR, HAVE GIVEN UP YOUR RIGHTS!!!!!!

:uhoh: :D

It would appear so. "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." -- commonly attributed to Ben Franklin.

jaykden
September 29, 2010, 17:42
some of you guys make me laugh.

either you want a more heavily secured border, or no border sercurity at all...


which is it?

martin35
September 29, 2010, 20:17
YOU SIR, HAVE GIVEN UP YOUR RIGHTS
In my opinion I reckon I have made better use of my rights than most here, a civil question does not violate my rights to think otherwise is just dumb and in need of a immature confrontation, I see no heroics in the subjects behavior just a tantrum at being "inconvenienced" and a self important delusion, knowing when your rights are being violated seems to be beyond some people.
There are many legitimate reasons for asking about the place visited and the reason why.

tuck0411
September 29, 2010, 20:34
Originally posted by martin35
YOU SIR, HAVE GIVEN UP YOUR RIGHTS
In my opinion I reckon I have made better use of my rights than most here, a civil question does not violate my rights to think otherwise is just dumb and in need of a immature confrontation, I see no heroics in the subjects behavior just a tantrum at being "inconvenienced" and a self important delusion, knowing when your rights are being violated seems to be beyond some people.
There are many legitimate reasons for asking about the place visited and the reason why.

And there might be as many legitimate reasons for wanting to keep that information private. The whole concept of being quizzed upon re-entry to the U.S. is kind of silly anyway, isn't it? I mean, assuming you had actually committed some crime while out of country, do they really expect you to volunteer that info? "What were you doing in China?" "Oh, I was passing classified information to the Chicom military, what of it." How many times has that probably happened? Zilch, I'm sure. As the blogger pointed out, this sort of questioning isn't about gathering actual useful information, it's just about control and intimidation. Screw that, they work for us, not the other way around.

evan price
September 30, 2010, 02:23
Originally posted by tuck0411


And there might be as many legitimate reasons for wanting to keep that information private. The whole concept of being quizzed upon re-entry to the U.S. is kind of silly anyway, isn't it? I mean, assuming you had actually committed some crime while out of country, do they really expect you to volunteer that info? "What were you doing in China?" "Oh, I was passing classified information to the Chicom military, what of it." How many times has that probably happened? Zilch, I'm sure. As the blogger pointed out, this sort of questioning isn't about gathering actual useful information, it's just about control and intimidation. Screw that, they work for us, not the other way around.

No, it's done to assess the general composure of the answerer. Just watch cops doing it with suspects. If you sound off like you got a pair and don't act fidgity, sweaty, nervous, and generally suspicious, they are not going to bother you. Their job is to look for stuff that is out of place. Stuff that don't seem right gets a more close inspection.

martin35
September 30, 2010, 11:05
Their job is to look for stuff that is out of place. Stuff that don't seem right gets a more close inspection.
But what about my being inconvenienced, aren't I supposed to puff up and piss my pants to show my complete lack of knowing what is transpiring at a port of entry. Any real transgressions can be addressed by reporting same or even by filing suit in a court of law, but first one might ask what is the inconvenience in aid of?

Beckman
September 30, 2010, 11:32
Originally posted by martin35
YOU SIR, HAVE GIVEN UP YOUR RIGHTS
In my opinion I reckon I have made better use of my rights than most here, a civil question does not violate my rights to think otherwise is just dumb and in need of a immature confrontation, I see no heroics in the subjects behavior just a tantrum at being "inconvenienced" and a self important delusion, knowing when your rights are being violated seems to be beyond some people.
There are many legitimate reasons for asking about the place visited and the reason why. The issue isn't whether there are "legitimate reasons" for asking "civil" questions, nor is it an issue of convenience. The issue is that a US citizen is not obligated to answer those questions, but when the blogger declined to answer, he was punished.

The issue isn't whether the blogger was "heroic." The issue was that the border agents abused their authority and punished a person who chose to exerecise his right to remain silent. The agent made if very clear that the blogger's detention was a form of punishment: It could be two, three, four hours. Hes gonna sit there until he cools down.

Whether you've, as you claim "made better use of my rights than most here," is not only your opinion, it's also irrelevant. The issue is what happened to the blogger after HE made use of HIS rights: He was punished by the border agents.

Maybe one day, if you get punished for exercising YOUR RIGHTS, there will be some internet blogger who will write about how YOU are merely throwing a "tantrum" and wasting everybody's time because YOU are under a "self important delusion" that YOUR rights are important. That's what the anti-gun people continually say about those of us who believe in the importance of the Second Ammendment.

tuck0411
September 30, 2010, 12:22
Originally posted by evan price


No, it's done to assess the general composure of the answerer. Just watch cops doing it with suspects. If you sound off like you got a pair and don't act fidgity, sweaty, nervous, and generally suspicious, they are not going to bother you. Their job is to look for stuff that is out of place. Stuff that don't seem right gets a more close inspection.

That may be the ostensible reason, but I'm suspicious that many of them aren't just into a general power trip and enjoy harassing civilians ("silly villains" is the term used, I think). As Beckman so ably pointed out, they harassed the blogger for no other reason than that he exercised his right to remain silent. He apparently wasn't acting "fidgity, sweaty, nervous, and generally suspicious", but just wanted to be left alone. For that, he got detained and verbally harassed.

Some may think it's wise to just go with the flow and put up with their crap, but I'd point out that a right not exercised will soon disappear. It may disappear anyway, but we don't need to be, nor should we be, complicit.

L1A1rocker
September 30, 2010, 20:44
Suspicionless checkpoint:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ID70BoDTL4

Heat
September 30, 2010, 23:52
Originally posted by L1A1rocker
Suspicionless checkpoint:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ID70BoDTL4

..and sadly the majority of the sheep that call themselves 'patrotic' Americans dont have a problem with living in a society where govt agencies stop you at will..

JasonB
October 01, 2010, 00:02
Originally posted by martin35
Kind of stupid to feel so inflated with self importance you have to give a official a hard time when they are doing their job in a way designed for the maximum security of their country, upon reentry I have always been asked if I visited certain areas of a country shown on my pass port where contagious diseases were reported and if shots were required I was once quarantined for 2 days not having one shot on my shot record insert, not every passport is legitimate I have been told, being a troubling making speed bump in line ahead of me would probably get some stern advice from me.

It is probably the fact that to believe border security is legit would also require believing that adult South Americans are naturally occuring in and/or spontaneously generate within the CONUS.

John Culver
October 01, 2010, 01:10
Originally posted by tuck0411


That much is true. Last time I visited CA via I-5 (probably more than 10 years ago) they were asking if I had any produce on board. Apparently, they're worried about bugs coming in on produce from out of state. I don't recall any other questions, though, but maybe they've added a few since I was last down there.

They have added 2:
Where are you coming from?
Where are you going to?

They will attempt to detain you if you do not answer

That being said, half the time the checkpoints arent manned lol

Going to hawaii if you do NOT fill out the form, or it fails the audit, they will charge you

Its mainly for produces etc, but also your location (to/from) and why you are there

1911guy
October 01, 2010, 05:09
Good for you. Administrative information (name etc) only is what they get, nothing more. Those who said it is about power not terrorism are correct.