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martin35
September 08, 2010, 14:45
Book burning as proposed by Pastor Terry Jones of the 50-member Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fla. is self abuse on the church steps as far as I can see, any gratification will be to the self abuser in my opinion.
This act must in today's climate have consequences, the insurers of DWO church property must be re-accessing that policy.
What might the second dovish act of defiance to Islam be?

Sampson1986
September 08, 2010, 14:56
Who cares?

ggiilliiee
September 08, 2010, 14:59
the man is an idiot and a traitor ,and should be treated as such ...any of our troops get hurt over this flatlander moron ..he should be held responsible ..

if it ws such a great idea ,why arent the troops burnin them in the streets in iraq and afganny..??

i hope he drops ....got ten bucks says if ya smell his mustache ...it smells like TIMMY ....

JM
September 08, 2010, 15:19
Burning the foul ,cult book called the koran should be as American as apple pie. Islam is Americas greatest enemy. The idiots and traitors are those that won't let our soldiers kick the livin sht out of the jihadis so they can come home.

martin35
September 08, 2010, 15:27
the man is an idiot and a traitor ,and should be treated as such ...any of our troops get hurt over this flatlander moron ..he should be held responsible ...
Thats a good point. I have not seen a comprhensive explanation for this type 9=11 celebration.
As for putting the troops in more danger that was not a consideration for the last 10 years, How does one increase the rage of someone who is already enraged to the max. Maybe by setting fire to their books and then pee'n on them as a conciliatory gesture?

molotov
September 08, 2010, 15:28
I think he is within his rights but it is inherently a bad idea and not a very christian one at that.

martin35
September 08, 2010, 15:31
I think he is within his rights but it is inherently a bad idea and not a very christian one at that.
Really bad jugement is not yet illegal. Not enough available jail space.

ggiilliiee
September 08, 2010, 15:34
yer bible is 70% Koran ...man ...
and kickin ass hasnt worked too dam well has it ...now they only blow ya up 3 times a day instead of 5 ...burn the books and it will be 20 .

.just say to yourself ...hell there not my kids ...who cares ...and burn baby burn ....

Deltaten
September 08, 2010, 15:55
No ggiillee.. burn the book and draw all the rag-head radicals out into the light...makes for target rich environment ! Your "leave me alone" tactics won;t hold for long. Some day..probably too damm'd late, you'll wake the fugg up to the reality of Sharia Law and Dhimmihood

Back-up yer 1st amendment rights with yer 2nd am rights. It is about time *someone* has the bad taste to bedevil them in return. What...like burning a book is gonna piss 'em off more? What a hoot!! Yeah.. we burn a book for each head they cut off, each airliner they fly into an occupied building, every woman they stone for being raped !!! The moose limbs are looking for the slightest excuse. Give it to them!

Mebbe it'll make 'em soooo mad they'll do sumpin' really stoopid?? I think I'll go down to the town center and burn one (or more) off on Saturday.... justa see what happens.

Now; if he had decided to advertise for participants in burning down the local moose limb cultural center; I could see the uproar. !!

Lefties and their ilk can burn our flag, burn draft cards, put crucifixs in urine and Madonna in feces for art... no worries... freedom of speech. BUT.. let one incensed preacher put up a sign and the whole world goes ballistic.
WTF??

We simply can't agree on exactly where in the sand the line is drawn. This [misguided?] preacher is sounding a clarion call. Some will hear and become aware.... most will not. WHat's that qoute about.."first , they came for the Jews... then they came for the Catholics..." (sic) ??

You'd shoot an armed and violent intruder?? You'd dispatch a vicious dog? You'd fight like hell once they got to YOUR doorstep.... At what temperature *does* yer blood boil?

A stitch in time ............

They won;t stop til someone fugks them up worse than they screw with us. The sooner the better!

Sampson1986
September 08, 2010, 15:56
Originally posted by ggiilliiee
the man is an idiot and a traitor ,and should be treated as such ...any of our troops get hurt over this flatlander moron ..he should be held responsible ..


Were you dropped on your head as a child?

Terrorist bastards are going to try and hurt our brave soldiers regardless of if this clown burns the Koran or not. They hate us and no amount of ass kissing or diplomacy is going to change that. These assholes are like rabid dogs - you don't negotiate with a rabid dog, you put a .223 between its eyes and be done with it.

Beckman
September 08, 2010, 15:57
It's funny how all of those Lib-Dems who support the "free expression" of Muslims to build the Ground Zero Mosque -- or burn a US flag, for that matter -- are silent about free expression when it comes to burning a Koran.

How could an Afghani or a Muslim in another country know about what happens in a Fla. church, anyway? Are those Muslims psychic? No, they will know because the mass media will tell them if a Koran gets burned. Remember the fake Newsweek article about flushing a Koran down a Gitmo toilet? So, maybe the MSM should forgoe THEIR freedom of expression, and not report the Koran burning. Yes, the MSM should forgoe their freedom, instead of telling others to do so.

After all, the MSM has allot of experience censoring the news: They worked very had to censor negative stories about Obama.

Hey, here's a an even better idea: maybe the "religion of peace" should act peacefully and respect other people's rights. Why blame the Koran-burner for the violence of a bunch of intollerant, violent Muslims? The Muslims are the ones who are holding the world hostage. They are the ones responsible for the violence that they commit.

Is the Koran-burner responsible for any violent backlash, or is it the fault of the Muslims who actually engage in the violence? Is the Koran-burner undermining our war effort, or does the issue merely highlight how questionable it is to ally ourselves with Muslims who hate us and will stab us in the back at the smallest slight by any person in the US? Should we have those types of allies?

Why should any American be asked to forgoe a basic right in order to appease our enemies, or humor a fickle foreign ally? Make no mistake, this IS terrorism. The Muslims are clearly using the threat of violence, the same violence that they uleashed over the Danish cartoons and against the Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh. This threat of violence has a clear political puprose: to terrorize a church in Florida from exercising its right to free expression.

martin35
September 08, 2010, 15:57
yer bible is 70% Koran
Close,, in as much as the Bible predates the Koran by several centuries, some books by millenniums,,, Mohamed studied Jesus and thought to his own self "I can do that".

edporch
September 08, 2010, 16:02
If somebody wants to buy a koran and do whatever with it, it's their right because it's theirs.

That said, it's not good judgement to have a public burning event, and I would agree that it's not very Christian.
(Christianity being a religion that believes in presenting the Christian truth to anybody receptive to it, but will not forcefully convert anyone)

I'll add that some years ago when "The Satanic Verses" came out, there were muslims at local bookstores trying to intimidate and threaten people not to buy it.
When I kept seeing this reported, it pissed me off that these POS think they have the right to tell me what book I can't buy.
I went to my local bookstore where it had been reported that people like this were hanging around and bought a copy of it.

I've never even read it, but it was a matter of principle.

martin35
September 08, 2010, 16:07
As far as I know Salman Rushdi is still in hiding for using his religious views to make a payday.

Retired Bum
September 08, 2010, 16:19
So how many of the MSM types will be there with camera crews to record the event? If the media just ignored that idiot and his crew there wouldn't be much of a problem as I see it. But what do I know, I'm just a straight white guy and my opinion counts for little these days. But that might change after November 2nd...

And so it goes.


The Retired One

edporch
September 08, 2010, 16:22
Originally posted by Retired Bum
So how many of the MSM types will be there with camera crews to record the event? If the media just ignored that idiot and his crew there wouldn't be much of a problem as I see it. But what do I know, I'm just a straight white guy and my opinion counts for little these days. But that might change after November 2nd...

And so it goes.


The Retired One

+1

molotov
September 08, 2010, 16:51
Book burning is disgusting.

I don't necessarily agree. I have torched a book or two in the privacy of my own home before. Didn't feel that the knowledge therein would do the reader any good.

Technically, I can agree with torching Korans but at this stage in the game a public book burning of that particular book is just bound to trigger a response from the muslim community.

juanni
September 08, 2010, 17:16
The pastor's book burning is just a smaller, less expensive version of US foreign policy......... equally shortsighted and stupid.


Burn away, the sooner we are bankrupt, and realize we won't be winning anything over there the better.



..............juanni

Stranger
September 08, 2010, 17:34
Originally posted by molotov
I think he is within his rights but it is inherently a bad idea and not a very christian one at that.

Jesus spent his adult years bringing light to the corrupt Jewish establishment. He had "crazy ideas" of right/wrong and sometimes performed violent deeds. I seem to remember that he made a lot of political hay when he overturned the money changers tables in the Temple. How is that for a "not very christian" action?

homelandprotector
September 08, 2010, 17:37
We should nuke all places where these genocidal maniacs live, make them fear us more then they hate us. :cool:

Doing that would burn more korans then they could count.

Brett
September 08, 2010, 17:49
Why burn it when it makes perfectly good toilet paper?

martin35
September 08, 2010, 18:44
Our native ancestors had a deliberate method of gaining prestige and exalting their image and adding feathers to their bonnets, it was called counting coup, accumulative counts of ineffectual touching of a enemy was ranked up there with a kill. That and a poorly run immigration policy may be why they are not still running things,,, not a effective use of finite resources.

JohnnyReb
September 08, 2010, 18:58
Originally posted by ggiilliiee
yer bible is 70% Koran ...man ...
and kickin ass hasnt worked too dam well has it ...now they only blow ya up 3 times a day instead of 5 ...burn the books and it will be 20 .

.just say to yourself ...hell there not my kids ...who cares ...and burn baby burn ....

We got nothing to worry about with you around ggilliee, popping those milk jugs at 500 and all ...

RG Coburn
September 08, 2010, 19:11
I see absolutely nothing wrong with burning a book,whether it be a koran,or a bible,or freakin' cookbook. Its just a thing. If you who are so uptight about it ,really want to make a difference in Afghanistan,let our people shoot,burn and blow up anything they need to,without restriction.
ROE is killing way more than burning books.

cowbilly
September 08, 2010, 19:11
Jesus took part in violent acts? Which bible are you reading?

Kicking corruption out of the church in the mannor he did as documented is hardly violence. Anger in itself is not a sin, it is simply an emotion like happiness or sadness.

It is funny how many of our leaders in the US are running scared because someone in Florida is going to burn a Quran or two. Only the media gives a rats for ratings. Bibles are burned everyday, christians in Africa and Asia are pursecuted for sharing their beliefs and no one says a thing. This happens because christians do not go around beheading non-believers as the followers of the Quran do nor do they blow themselves up and kill "non-believers" in order to get to heaven and have sex with X amount of virgins.

Yes, every religion has its wackos but which one demands submission or death? Which one promotes inequality in the treatment of women and non-believers? They've been burning our flag since the 1970s, and they think our constitution is toilet paper.

Now these same folks want to put a Mosque near ground zero and our leaders support it. Why don't we put a giant statue of Hitler to preside over the fallen at Normandy or a mitsibushi plant over the USS Arizona while we're at it.

We as a people are losing our spinal columns. You cannot maintain a different set of values and beliefs with the nation of islam and exist. Looks like peace through submission is the plan and I want no part of it.

molotov
September 08, 2010, 19:27
IMO: All knowledge is of value.

No doubt. Still, I have come across some knowledge that didn't edify or inform me anything I wanted to know. In fact, some publications carry some pretty disturbing or misleading stuff in them. I generally trash or burn them. Then again, when you thrift for books, you wind up with some junk now and then.

Sometimes, if nothing else, it gives an insight into the mind of the enemy.

I think that radical Islam, a small movement backed by subversive intelligence organizations of world powers are the enemy. With that monetary and ideological backing they have hijacked Islam and created the same divisions the media has created here.

My experiences with muslims, aside from what "terrorists" did to the country were positive for the most part and I hold no ill will towards muslims who practice their religion in peace.

Is the Koran-burner responsible for any violent backlash, or is it the fault of the Muslims who actually engage in the violence? Is the Koran-burner undermining our war effort, or does the issue merely highlight how questionable it is to ally ourselves with Muslims who hate us and will stab us in the back at the smallest slight by any person in the US? Should we have those types of allies?

Just noting that Beckman has a very powerful argument here. Well said.

ephv
September 08, 2010, 19:39
I cannot find any place in the New Testament instructions to the Church that we are to inflame the enemies of Christ. Burning the Koran is a publicity stunt by a poor church that cannot afford to fix their marque or the "lighted" cross on the front of their building.

Paul, in his instructions to the persecuted church in Rome was very clear as to what our response is to be. Those same Christians were used as lamp light on poles at night; burned alive for their stand for Christ.

Romans 12:14,18,20-21
[14] Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not....
[18] If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all
men.
[20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him
drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
[21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.


That "pastor" is doing a great disservice to both his church and to the name of Christ in particular. His actions are unscriptural.

If he wishes as a private citizen, to burn the book in protest he is within his Constitutional grounds but he is acting against Biblical directives as a so-called Christian.

Beckman
September 08, 2010, 20:31
Originally posted by molotov

...

Just noting that Beckman has a very powerful argument here. Well said. Thank you.

BTW, why is it that WE are the ones who need to be tollerant? How tollerant are the Saudis, our close allies and the world's supposedly moderate Arabs? Would they allow a non-believer into Mecca? Why is it that tollerance isn't a two-way street?

flopshot
September 08, 2010, 20:38
Originally posted by Beckman
Thank you.

BTW, why is it that WE are the ones who need to be tollerant? How tollerant are the Saudis, our close allies and the world's supposedly moderate Arabs? Would they allow a non-believer into Mecca? Why is it that tollerance isn't a two-way street?

no more calls please. we have a fuk'n winner.

flopshot
September 08, 2010, 20:45
when are all the muslim ass kissers going to realize that islam is not a religion but a political and legal system hiding behind religion ?
burn the ****'n books and let the chips fall. at some point this tolerance, inclusiveness and sensitivity shit needs to end so we can get to what is real. islam is a plague.

armed1
September 08, 2010, 21:10
These Arabs have been waiting for centuries to pay back the Christiains for the crusades, and exterminate their mortal enemies, Jews. Now is their time as we have enriched them by buying their oil, and have weakened ourselves by way of tolerance and political correctness. Make no mistake, their aim is world domination, not tolerance and co-existence. These "virtues" are weaknesses to them and they will strike us at our weakest point.

Know why they don't burn Bibles in Saudi Arabia?

JM
September 08, 2010, 23:13
Islam is a lie and the truth will kill it.

martin35
September 08, 2010, 23:56
Islamic conversion has been greater by volume than Christianity and Judaism in the modern era. Effective Islamic eradication would probably require total human extinction,,, but not to worry, except for the few people that I truly like.

Bprewit
September 09, 2010, 01:12
Every news story i see has something to do with how frightening it is the thought of the outrage of the muslims if he does this. Shit the American people are already beat and scared out of their minds of the evil muslims. I see them burning the American flag all the time yet we are not outraged and do violent acts against them. Burn the damn books and stop being afraid of them, and yes I have friends and family in the military who would love for the bleeding heart bullshit to stop and allow them to fight a war instead of having their hands tied. I will be flamed galore for this post I know but man why are we hiding our heads in the sand in fear of the almighty muslim?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

L Haney
September 09, 2010, 05:47
Originally posted by armed1

Know why they don't burn Bibles in Saudi Arabia?


Because they won't allow it in their country? Hard to burn something that's not there.

GuitarBob
September 09, 2010, 06:12
I hope all you people that are suggesting that we stop them from burning the koran, because someone might get hurt, are effectively supporting terrorism.

All you are doing is teaching the terrorists that terrorism works. In a way you're giving moral support to the terrorists even though you don't intend to.

For the guy that suggested our soldiers might get hurt over this I have to ask one question. What good does it do to have our soldiers fight against terrorism over seas if we cave into it over here? Why are our soldiers put into harm's way to spread freedom over seas if we our so willing to surrender it here?

GuitarBob
September 09, 2010, 06:16
Originally posted by armed1
These Arabs have been waiting for centuries to pay back the Christiains for the crusades, and exterminate their mortal enemies, Jews. Now is their time as we have enriched them by buying their oil, and have weakened ourselves by way of tolerance and political correctness. Make no mistake, their aim is world domination, not tolerance and co-existence. These "virtues" are weaknesses to them and they will strike us at our weakest point.

Know why they don't burn Bibles in Saudi Arabia?


Muslims waged war against Christians centuries before the crusades. Most of the near east used to be Christian at one time. Anyone want to guess what happened to those people?

FAL freek
September 09, 2010, 07:43
Originally posted by ggiilliiee
the man is an idiot and a traitor ,and should be treated as such ...any of our troops get hurt over this flatlander moron ..he should be held responsible ..

if it ws such a great idea ,why arent the troops burnin them in the streets in iraq and afganny..??
And Anerican soldiers aren't allowed to drink alcohol over ther either for fear of offending our "hosts". The entire world shakes in fear of sword waving religious zealot camel jockies who are only too happy to strap bombs on themselves to kill whoever they deem offensive. Folks been appeasing them for at least 50 years and they still kill everybody they can so they can get their way. All those years of drug abouse have really affected your brain.


Ya know while the Arabic countries were colonies and the Colonial masters dealt with them accordingly they didn't seem to get too out of hand. Since they've gained their independence they behave like unruly teenagers who just got the keys to the car. It's way past time dad came back with the belt.

cowbilly
September 09, 2010, 08:44
Some would like to lay blame on this preacher if Soldiers are killed. How about blaming the ones planting the IEDs, training/becoming suicide bombers and shooting RPGs. They have been doing that for 30 years prior to this incident.

Wrong is wrong, right is right. The pastor has made his point before even lighting a match regarding the relegion of Islam.

The Bible says to turn your check, use soft words, be kind to your enemies but it does not say lay down nor does it say to tolerate wickedness (eg. Jesus kicking out the profiteers from the church), (The Quran teaches you to lie to your enemy and smite them if they don't convert, contrary to the Bible's teaching).

There are times when someone needs to stand up and get peoples attention. I don't know if I agree with his methods or not but it has become effective as we are now discussing this as a nation. Even the President is calling for him to stop.

It does not help relations with the "followers of the Quran" but nothing would or ever will as long as we have a constitution. Unless you convert to the religion you are considered an outsider and an enemy.

This incident is showing our greatest weakness, our leadership.

Varangian
September 09, 2010, 08:51
Originally posted by ggiilliiee
kickin ass hasnt worked too dam well has it ...now they only blow ya up 3 times a day instead of 5 ...burn the books and it will be 20 .

.just say to yourself ...hell there not my kids ...who cares ...and burn baby burn ....

What a pussy. "Let's not do anything to piss the Muslims off, and maybe they'll only kick us in the nuts instead of in the head..."

You're part of the problem. STFU and let people who are willing to stand up to Muslim aggression do their thing.

V guy
September 09, 2010, 09:13
It is the eve of 911, and by god, I am mad as hell all over again.

I suggest a method to make everyone feel better about this burning.

You see, to make a koran, you just have to write the word KORAN on a rectangular piece of cardboard. There is not much inside anyway, as we all know.

To the world of ragheads, this is the same thing as a KORAN, just the instant kind, as the word koran is magic to them and represents the very same thing.

That way, on the 11th, everyone can, if they wish, throw the instant KORAN onto the campfire or whatever source of pyro that you choose.
It is the idea sometimes, and the act othertimes.

You WILL feel better afterwards.


--Oh yeah, drawing a picture of muhammad and allah inside the cover performing deviant acts would be a plus, too. It is not necessary to dress as a CRUSADER, as people might confuse the KKK sheet with it, nowadays. The anniverszary of 911 demands decorum and a damned burning of that damned book and it must be universal to give the rag heads a what for and how to attitude.

Not one more American soldier will be attacked or killed by the announcement of Koran burning.
The jr level ragheads in the pipeline always intended to attack anyway and sooner is better than later.

Just trying to be helpful.
I will have a campfire on 911 for sure.

Sailor553
September 09, 2010, 09:37
Petraus is the guy that said this would harm the troops?

K.O.A.M.
September 09, 2010, 10:07
You can blame the media for this whole thing. This attention whore of a pastor called a press conference and said "I'm gonna burn Qur'ans". Our attention whore serving media has publicized it worldwide. This attention whore now has everyone talking about him, which is exactly what he wanted in the first place.

cpd109
September 09, 2010, 10:14
Lots of good, accurate (in my mind) things being said here. What hasn't been said is that after burning the koran, the congregation will leave the church for home and dinner. Later, the congregation will come back in shifts, armed, to wait of the moose limbs to show up to burn the church down. They will then protect their church. BTW, I am pretty sure this (burning the church down, or trying to) would be defined as a hate crime since the mose limbs are picking on the church.

What is radical to one person is taking a stand to another.

Legally, the koran can be burned in this country as freedom of expression. But it may have consequences, here and in Iraq and Afghanistan. At least over there, the soldiers are armed and alert for attacks. Here not so much.

"Islam is a set of laws and government hiding behind religion." That makes sense to me and fits what I have read about it.

JM
September 09, 2010, 10:23
Islam needs to be purged from America. Muslums can only exist as a disruptive minority or as a oppressive majority. The mosque is primarily a political meeting place to recruit new members and plan violence and murder advocated by the vile book called the koran. All mosques in America need to be shut down and all Americans denounce Islam or face deportation back to their Islamic hellholes they came from. Burning that damned book called the koran is American as Apple Pie and certainly will be in the near future when the SOB's nuke or destroy and kill tens of thousands of real Americans. If any one of you here lose your wife or children or family member to a koran crazed Islamist, I guarantee you will be burning that damned book!

Stranger
September 09, 2010, 10:56
Originally posted by cowbilly
Jesus took part in violent acts? Which bible are you reading?

Kicking corruption out of the church in the mannor he did as documented is hardly violence. Anger in itself is not a sin, it is simply an emotion like happiness or sadness.

Yeah, Jesus got angry, threw a fit and people just left. And the cords he used as a whip ? I suppose you think he was just flagellating himself? :rolleyes:

V guy
September 09, 2010, 11:31
Islam is not a religion by any definition of it, unless the MAFIA was a religion, or the German SS.

The Worlds great religions, like Bhuddism, Hinduism, Judiasm and Christianity all define the general parameters of a religion and its relationship to society at large.

Islam has no basic moral tenets, for it modifies the ten commandments with its Sura's and its demonic treatment of "infidels", women and medical aid workers.

What IS needed in this country is a definition by the IRS to define a religion, other than by simple declaration of religion.
We are talking about tax status only, not banning free speech.

Any simple analysis of Islam would show that it is a RICO conspiracy first and a gang second.

Take away their tax status and let the chips fall where they may.

Varangian
September 09, 2010, 11:40
Funny, the President didn't grovel to stop
this (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/index.html?iref=NS1)

brunop
September 09, 2010, 11:41
Originally posted by molotov

I think that radical Islam, a small movement backed by subversive intelligence organizations of world powers are the enemy. With that monetary and ideological backing they have hijacked Islam and created the same divisions the media has created here.

My experiences with muslims, aside from what "terrorists" did to the country were positive for the most part and I hold no ill will towards muslims who practice their religion in peace.



Just noting that Beckman has a very powerful argument here. Well said.

Great post. Exactly.

cowbilly
September 09, 2010, 11:51
Don't pay attention to Hollywood Stranger. John 2:14, Matthew 21:12, Mark 11:15 and Luke 19:45 describe this incident. Scholars have studied the text and it would appear he made a small short whip (one used for herding, sheep, ox similiar to what would be used on a horse and not like a long whip with knots or nails or anything at the end as portrayed in some movies) and drove the animals out, says nothing about striking people. Many believe he used the animals to force/herd people out as the area was considered very large, (several acres). No injuries are reported, no evidence of your violent deeds. Again, which translation of the Bible are you reading?

What about "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is that too much as well?

Anyway, the preacher has made his point and appears victorious. He has made a lot of officials and celebrities look and sound like fools.

Most overlook that a vast number of people in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq (not as bad there) can't read and rely on the Imams/clergy to dictate the Quran to them.

ggiilliiee
September 09, 2010, 12:18
send the moron to iraq ..let him burn them there ...the man is an IDIOT ...

the way he chews his cud ...im thinkin TWEAKER ...and child molestor ...i hope he drops ...

hes either a total moron or hes being set up by the cheeneys in the world ..as ya dont get rich NOT killing people ...this is like a stupid bush plan ...errr uhhh LIE ..get the sheep worked up .
..see FOX news ...theyd be out of biz without sheeple ...flatlanders are SOOOO easily led ......like rats in a habitrail ...poor dum bastards ....like some of yer smiths ...heros in FL, but the dummest fark in the room out here ...IT's REGIONAL ...

Stranger
September 09, 2010, 12:23
Originally posted by cowbilly
Don't pay attention to Hollywood Stranger. John 2:14, Matthew 21:12, Mark 11:15 and Luke 19:45 describe this incident.

Other than the Gibson movie, I haven't seen any Hollyweird movies about Jesus. If there was a scene in Passion where Jesus hit someone, I don't remember it. Haven't heard second hand about a Hollywood movie where Jesus was depicted hitting anyone either. Have you?

You can bury your head in the sand all you like, but Jesus was a revolutionary violently opposed the PTB.

In my systematic theology courses we translated the original Greek and Aramaic texts comparing them to the KJV, NIV, and others. I would suggest you look at the original manuscripts before you start getting all uppity about what version of the english bible is more accurate.

You might also look up the word violence. It is an act of aggression and a display of force. Toppling tables, scattering coins/property, and yelling at people are all violent actions.

BTW, do you translate Genesis literally and believe it only took seven days to create the earth?

Enquiring Minds
September 09, 2010, 12:28
What Beckman, and Deltaten, and KOAM, and few others said, and said so well.

Personally, I relish this on several levels, and the interwoven ironies are just delish. For one, this pastor is now a "terrorist", and his "weapon" is the Zionist-owned MSM. He'll be brandishing it again.

Correction: his weapon is the hyperbolic anti-moozlim brainwashing deliberately designed and propagated by the MSM. You see, from time to time, our Media Mind Molders have to run a diagnostic "meme-check" on the GenModProp, to verify how much valence certain ginned-up conventional "wisdoms" still have on the Sheeple.

A few observations on Islam, and religions in general: Religions are not bestowed by any Higher Power, but rather, the PTBs of identifiable ethnic groups create religions that conform to the soul and psyche of their plebes. Islam group photos show few to none white faces, and not much wealth. Oh sure, a few become cardiac surgeons, and there's the Saudi sheiks and princes who had oil wealth dropped in their laps--these are the PTBs. But by-and-large, Islam is the belief (mind-control) system of the poor (low-IQ) brown peeps of the Eurasian continent.

Basically, peeps--here, there, everywhere--are "poor" because they can't "figure things out" (even agriculture) on any useful scale. The real danger of Islam is that it takes BILLIONS of poor (low-IQ) peeps, and "figures things out" FOR them. The evil brilliance of Islam is the significant "insulation" it wraps around those poor brown peeps once it ropes them in; i.e. insulation from access to larger knowledge, and harsh consequences for leaving the herd.

America's muslim population is about the tamest on Earth, nothing like Europe's, and even our few radical terrorists (underwear bomber, etc) appear to be the most inept on Earth. Bloomberg knows this. Nadler knows this. Mossad knows this. Believe me, nothing is going to be "hatched" in that so-called Ground Zero mosque that isn't known in advance to several non-muslims. :wink: The CIA station chief of this mosque will be on his book tour in 2030. :rofl:

Not sure why Detroit seems to be the epicenter of American Islam, but checking into that is on my to-do list... suspect it has to do with near zero property values in the area, and the aforementioned appeal of Islam to the chronically poor peeps of the Earth.

Back to grim ironies surrounding Islam in America, perhaps the most overarching of all is this: as our formerly great nation is driven into bankruptcy by Zionist Jew banksters, the number of native-born Americans joining Islam will INcrease dramatically. Oh yeah, because at least Hezbollah/Holy Land type groups will get the soup kitchens up and running... funded by oil wealth from... muslim countries... Oi, the irony. :mad:

Right Side Up
September 09, 2010, 12:42
Originally posted by Stranger


Jesus spent his adult years bringing light to the corrupt Jewish establishment. He had "crazy ideas" of right/wrong and sometimes performed violent deeds. I seem to remember that he made a lot of political hay when he overturned the money changers tables in the Temple. How is that for a "not very christian" action?


This.


And add to it his threat to destroy the Temple.

What would Jesus do with the religion Islam? Probably the same thing. Threaten destruction.

ephv
September 09, 2010, 13:54
Stranger posted--


Yeah, Jesus got angry, threw a fit and people just left. And the cords he used as a whip ? I suppose you think he was just flagellating himself?


His actions were not a political statement. He was reacting to the corruption in the physical confines of the temple. His complaint was that they had made God's house of prayer a den of thieves. His actions were against the perpetrators who were members of the temple.

I would hope real Christians would respond with anger and indignation to drug pushers in the vestibule of their local church.

BTW, no one died as a result of His actions. He never raised His hands against the Roman occupiers and oppressors. He was always rebuking the leadership of the Hebrew nation and temple.

ephv
September 09, 2010, 13:56
Right Side Up posted--

And add to it his threat to destroy the Temple.

He never threatened to destroy the temple. His reference to destruction of the temple was the temple of His body which He said He would raise again on the third day.

ephv
September 09, 2010, 14:04
Stranger posted--

BTW, do you translate Genesis literally and believe it only took seven days to create the earth?

No; but it was a 6 day time period of His actions not 7. All it says is that during those 6 days He did what was described. The age of the earth at the beginning of His actions is up for debate. Personally, it makes no difference. I believe He did what it says He did. Any confusion is on my part.

ephv
September 09, 2010, 14:09
Right Side Up posted--

What would Jesus do with the religion Islam? Probably the same thing. Threaten destruction.

The Roman religious beliefs were not addressed by Him. He was focused on the Cross. The Romans worshiped the emperor and a slough of other false gods. He addressed worshiping the one true God. False religions didn't make Him nervous.

martin35
September 09, 2010, 14:29
Iman Feisal Abdul Rauf, the recently returned holy man running the Cordoba Project near the Twin Towers site says if America does not accede to Islamic desires it will not end well.
As I assess the various perceived provocations my country inflicts on Muslims there is no interaction we can engage in that will not cause a negative reaction.
Our charitable programs are as provocative as our policing programs to protect and effect self determination for Muslims.
Nothing we do will make safe or beguile the poisonous snake of Islamic fanaticism that absorbs the slightest movement as a reason to strike on behalf of a deadly ignorant belief.
In my opinion the Pastor and the Iman are fomenting sophist hype for a payday, there is a monetary aspect to all these as yet to happen events, both can probably be bought off.
Amen and Insallah.

John Culver
September 09, 2010, 14:34
so the book burning churches website was shutdown in the name of free speech today (apparently the white house had a talk with the host)

martin35
September 09, 2010, 14:59
so the book burning churches website was shutdown in the name of free speech today (apparently the white house had a talk with the host)
I wonder if all interveiws will be curtailed by the media?
Cordoba House Initiative. org is still up and running, peace be unto you.

cowbilly
September 09, 2010, 15:29
Stranger, just read the Bible is all I ask. Not uppity at all, just a correction to your claim. You comment on things as if you don't know what it really says. That is why I ask which version or translation are you reading.

I am well aware of the various translations and some mistakes especially old testament as it varies some from the Torah. Greek to latin issues as well. The overall jest of it is the same however. Salvation.

As to your comment about my "literal beliefs": A day with the lord is like a lifetime so I don't know if a day was measured by our terms or not. Did people really live to be 700 or 500 years old as it said in some texts? Probably not by our standard of time but I really don't know nor do you. The explanation of creation in Genesis is just as believable as any other theory, all require a degree of faith.

Your mild attempts at insults are not necessary and you are entitled to your beliefs as am I.

Good luck.

Beckman
September 09, 2010, 16:19
Originally posted by John Culver
so the book burning churches website was shutdown in the name of free speech today (apparently the white house had a talk with the host) Well, there is no limit to Obama's appeasement of radical Islam.

So much for the old saying about free expression: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." In Obama's USA, some peoples' freedom is defended to the death, while other people are thrown to the wolves.

Although almost all lawyers agree that burning the Koran is Constitutionally-protected freedom of expression, it should be noted that the Koran-burning church has been paid a couple of visits by the FBI:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100909/ap_on_re_us/quran_burning_52
Jones said earlier this week that agents have visited him twice since he announced his plans in July, the last visit about two weeks ago.Freedom isn't free when you get harrassed by armed federal agents. For what federal crime is he under investigation?

It should also be noted that Muslims are already burning the US flag in retaliation for what hasn't happened yet:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100909/ap_on_re_us/quran_burning_52
In Pakistan, about 200 lawyers and civil society members marched and burned a U.S. flag in the central Pakistani city of Multan, demanding that Washington halt the burning of the Muslim holy book. I guess those Pakistani Muslims are giving us a fine example of tolerance. Yes, we'd better be tolerant of them, OR ELSE!

martin35
September 09, 2010, 16:32
My cheap radio is reporting a pending accord by the Pastor and the Iman, the Pastor says he will meet with the Iman in New York to finalized a reversal of their controversial positions. We can put our Zippo's away.

Beckman
September 09, 2010, 16:32
Apparently, it's cancelled:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100909/ap_on_re_us/quran_burning
GAINESVILLE, Fla. The minister of a Florida church said he has canceled plans to burn copies of the Quran because the leader of a much-opposed plan to build an Islamic Center near ground zero has agreed to move its location. The agreement couldn't be immediately confirmed.

martin35
September 09, 2010, 16:49
Did ya ever refuel your Zippo just to have the flint pop out when you tried to use it?

FAL freek
September 09, 2010, 17:38
Originally posted by Stranger
BTW, do you translate Genesis literally and believe it only took seven days to create the earth? Thought the Almighty made the world in 6 days and on the 7th he rested. :wink:

But it also makes no mention of whose day they use for measurement, Gods or mans. It also says in the Bible that Gods time frame is much longer than ours. Strange that the order that God made things is the same order that scientists agree things happened.

Stranger
September 09, 2010, 17:43
Originally posted by ephv

His actions were not a political statement. He was reacting to the corruption in the physical confines of the temple. His complaint was that they had made God's house of prayer and den of thieves. His actions were against the perpetrators who were members of the temple.


His actions were a political statement because the Jewish religious leaders were the Jewish political leaders. The people he was accusing perverting the law were the lawmakers themselves. It wasn't like he was accusing the local pastor of not carrying about the poor, he was accusing the local pastor, who also happened to be mayor, of stealing from the poor. Just like Islam, the Jewish faith tradition is one of theocracy. You can't dissect their religion from their government.

Originally posted by ephv

I would hope real Christians would respond with anger and indignation to drug pushers in the vestibule of their local church.


I would hope a "real Christian" would invite drug pushers into the congregation and attempt to minister to their needs. Heck, if they are in the vestibule you already have their foot in the door. That's the hardest part.

Originally posted by ephv

BTW, no one died as a result of His actions. He never raised His hands against the Roman occupiers and oppressors. He was always rebuking the leadership of the Hebrew nation and temple.

No one was killed directly by Jesus. However, a lot of people took offense at Jesus actions. No one is going to be directly killed by the pastor if he chooses to burn a Koran. However, a lot of people are going to take offense at the action. See similarity in the situations?

Stranger
September 09, 2010, 17:46
Originally posted by ephv

No; but it was a 6 day time period of His actions not 7. All it says is that during those 6 days He did what was described.

The rest was a part of creation week. :wink:

Its interesting to see so many using revisionist theology. Suddenly, a day isn't 24 hours its is whatever time it needs to be. Perhaps the writers just didn't understand what God was telling them... I don't think you will like where that leads.

Brian in MN
September 09, 2010, 18:28
Originally posted by Beckman
Apparently, it's cancelled:


GAINESVILLE, Fla. The minister of a Florida church said he has canceled plans to burn copies of the Quran because the leader of a much-opposed plan to build an Islamic Center near ground zero has agreed to move its location. The agreement couldn't be immediately confirmed.





Too early to say if anyone really agreed to move the Islamic center. May be that that guy is smarter than the press has been giving him credit for. Even if there is no deal by simply announcing that he has a deal he has successfully linked the very real insult of that center being built so near a site of the mass murder of thousands to the threatened insult of the burning a book. The whole world is now paying attention to that little slap in the face that Islam was trying to give us in NYC.

I have to wonder if there won't be a bit of a backlash at the White House for their heavy handed tactics. The press may be a tad liberal but they are generally pretty touchy about the first amendment.

Right Side Up
September 09, 2010, 18:37
The man has the political right to burn a Koran if he wants. It's amazing how many people burn American flags. I wonder if a single person has ever been called by the Secretary of State over it.

Man I get tired of all the coddling towards Muslims. Hey, they attacked US, on OUR soil. Our bravest people go over there and give their lives to uproot evil. We give billions upon billions to their countries. They still hate us. I don't know why politicians and reporters have defended Islam so much over this deal. It really bothers me.

I guess the Muslims have kicked our asses. It's been ten years and we still haven't figured out Afghanistan. I might as well just lay on my back like a submissive dog when a Muslim walks by me.

Brian in MN
September 09, 2010, 19:27
If this is something that rubs your fur the wrong way I really encourage you guys to go out and by a Koran during the next week. What you do with it is your business but if sales of that book spike this week all across the US we will be sending a message about our first amendment rights.

molotov
September 09, 2010, 20:23
Iman Feisal Abdul Rauf, the recently returned holy man running the Cordoba Project near the Twin Towers site says if America does not accede to Islamic desires it will not end well.

Coordinated multiple dirty bomb attacks.

As I assess the various perceived provocations my country inflicts on Muslims there is no interaction we can engage in that will not cause a negative reaction. Our charitable programs are as provocative as our policing programs to protect and effect self determination for Muslims.

The USA has a reputation of operating dirty, using aid programs as cover for spies and other infiltrators. The world has lost trust of our leaders. Can't imagine why.....

Nothing we do will make safe or beguile the poisonous snake of Islamic fanaticism that absorbs the slightest movement as a reason to strike on behalf of a deadly ignorant belief.

Until the mainstream muslim takes Luther like opposition to the Imams and other Islamic leaders in terms of denouncing the violence and handing over perpetrators, I fear you are right.

STGThndr
September 09, 2010, 20:53
That gilli person must be a real IDIOT of the first water if it thinks that the Bible is "70 percent "koran". The Bible was written and codified by the church long before mahound came around. The writer of that accursed book stole much from Judaism and Christianity in the making of his false religion. he should have stuck with sleepin with young chicks.

ephv
September 09, 2010, 20:53
Stranger,
It sounds as if you think I disagree with the 24 hour days of creation. It says "the evening and morning of" each day listed. That appears to be a 24 hour cycle. I have no problem with it.

DP
September 09, 2010, 20:58
There are no "political rights".

If there were the Muslims would be well within their "political rights" to burn him.

So according to you, political rights would givea person who disagrees withanother who wants to exercise their 1st amendment rights(however stupid and disrespectful) in a manner that truly threatens no one - that you could "burn" them??? Doesn't fit with what I thought was free speech in this country....

DP

JM
September 09, 2010, 22:28
Get ready--WAR is imminent! Forget about the coming elections. Obama is fueling the fires to spread this firestorm. He knows the elections will castrate him so a civil war will protect his power. While Americans are arguing over what is obvious-- He wins--you loose!

Insider
September 10, 2010, 04:40
Originally posted by Right Side Up
The man has the political right to burn a Koran if he wants. It's amazing how many people burn American flags. I wonder if a single person has ever been called by the Secretary of State over it.

Man I get tired of all the coddling towards Muslims. Hey, they attacked US, on OUR soil. Our bravest people go over there and give their lives to uproot evil. We give billions upon billions to their countries. They still hate us. I don't know why politicians and reporters have defended Islam so much over this deal. It really bothers me.

I guess the Muslims have kicked our asses. It's been ten years and we still haven't figured out Afghanistan. I might as well just lay on my back like a submissive dog when a Muslim walks by me.
Muslims hate dogs.

DP
September 10, 2010, 06:34
308....I think I see where you're coming from now. Simple little semantics, but a definite difference in meanings. A right isn't political - you either have it or you don''t....but under some political systems, human rights are perhaps freer to be expressed or used than others - so politics will definitely play a role in one's rights or oppression of said rights!!!:(

DP

martin35
September 10, 2010, 06:54
As things stand the two self serving "holy men" are more media opportunist than holy, and knowing controversy sells the media provides the magnification of their sophistry.
Greek word of mouth Sophists existed before Christianity or Islam, they were paid to shape public opinion for office candidates and political positions,,, some improvement we have made huh?. BS at the speed of light and the truth at the speed of smell.

martin35
September 10, 2010, 12:12
Being willing to fight and make someone die for your rights is the only way they can be preserved.

Bama Steve
September 10, 2010, 12:50
If you die as a result of your defensive action; do you have or had the right?

Jailguard
September 10, 2010, 13:13
I say burn them and lets kick this bitch off. I am so tired of everyone being afraid to make the Muzzis mad.

Beckman
September 10, 2010, 13:42
Originally posted by Jailguard
I say burn them and lets kick this bitch off. I am so tired of everyone being afraid to make the Muzzis mad. Here, here...

The threats of violence by radical Islamists are nothing other than political blackmail. We should never, ever forget what happened to Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, who was murdered by a radical Muslim that didn't like Theo's work.

Should we imitate Neville Chamberlain and appease the violent Muslims, or should we show defiance?

martin35
September 10, 2010, 14:01
Some few years back a member had a tag that I poorly paraphrase.. "fight through them and make them fear us more than they hate us" that spirit was regulated with rules of engagement.

Bama Steve
September 10, 2010, 15:37
Originally posted by 308bolt


If you run to protect your life rather than fight for what you believe in do you have rights or for that matter a life?

I always admired Patton's point of view and I certainly take it to heart but to win often takes all you have with nothing kept in reserve for retreat.

I certainly subscribe to Gen Geo. S. Patton's philosophy however, my question was merely rhetorical.

Just a conundrum, nothing more . . .

lima
September 10, 2010, 15:52
Originally posted by Deltaten
It is about time *someone* has the bad taste to bedevil them in return. What...like burning a book is gonna piss 'em off more? What a hoot!! Yeah.. we burn a book for each head they cut off, each airliner they fly into an occupied building, every woman they stone for being raped !!!

While slightly offensive to muslims, I like this idea since the hard core zealots seem to understand this threat better than a show of force. "You made me do it akbar - allah will not be pleased with you"

I also like the idea of wrapping all the remains of suicide bombers in bacon before disposing of remains. Ta-da! - allah says no 72 virgins for you -ha ha!

Reminds me of that bit about Jack Black Pershing that has been floating around the web for a while:

"HOW TO STOP ISLAMIC TERRORISTS...... it worked once in our History...

Once in U.S. history an episode of Islamic terrorism was very quickly stopped. It happened in the Philippines about 1911, when Gen. John J. Pershing was in command of the garrison. There had been numerous Islamic terrorist attacks, so "Black Jack" told his boys to catch the perps and teach them a lesson.

Forced to dig their own graves, the terrorists were all tied to posts, execution style. The U.S. soldiers then brought in pigs and slaughtered them, rubbing their bullets in the blood and fat. Thus, the terrorists were terrorized; they saw that they would be contaminated with hogs' blood. This would mean that they could not enter Heaven, even if they died as terrorist martyrs.

All but one was shot, their bodies dumped into the grave, and the hog guts dumped atop the bodies. The lone survivor was allowed to escape back to the terrorist camp and tell his brethren what happened to the others. This brought a stop to terrorism in the Philippines for the next 50 years.

Pointing a gun into the face of Islamic terrorists won't make them flinch.

They welcome the chance to die for Allah. Like Gen. Pershing, we must show them that they won't get to Muslim heaven (which they believe has an endless supply of virgins) but instead will die with the hated pigs of the devil."

Brett
September 10, 2010, 17:20
This could become an annual 911 event. Soak the quran in bacon grease and set it ablaze in the front yard.

Bama Steve
September 10, 2010, 17:31
This FLA "Pastor" has set the entire planet on notice and awaken those within Islam who wish to live in peace rather than pieces - they fear it as much as the apologists/acquiesce'ers do here.

We're on the right path to a world-wide "WTF are we doing?" moment.

Now them Iranians and their nuke shit - that's another story, altogether . . .

martin35
September 10, 2010, 20:00
Symbolism is not satisfying for me I need the physical confrontation to be fulfilled and chewing my spinach twice seems a waste of effort.

Brett
September 10, 2010, 20:28
I think pigskin quran book covers should be made available, maybe with a picture of mohammed embossed on the front. The perfect Christmas gift.

Bama Steve
September 10, 2010, 20:46
Don't forget the "Bomb-shell" logo . . . .

:biggrin:

martin35
September 10, 2010, 23:40
Think of it as training.
Mess with me and I'll burn your training manual?,,, I'd rather pinch your momma's butt as a provocation.