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John Culver
August 18, 2010, 16:31
Apparently some Atheists got their panties in a wad at the honoring of some Utah cops memorial, so the courts banned them

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50132157-76/crosses-court-utah-highways.html.csp

martin35
August 18, 2010, 18:34
I'm not clear on the function of these highway crosses, are there crosses on the cop's grave sites? One cross was enough for Jesus. Billboards are not normally allowed on highway right-of-ways they must be erected on private property by contractual lease or serve a needed public service,,,, maybe a simple sign asking "are you ready for judgement day?",,, naw that has to be painted on a rock,,, the point of dozen anonymous memorial crosses on highways is not only contentious but vague of purpose.

Sailor553
August 18, 2010, 19:16
And, after a short time - seldom maintained.

onebigelf
August 18, 2010, 19:27
I'm just getting tired of this crap. There is no constitutionally protected right not to be offended. How about if we just stop listening to the courts? Put the crosses up anyway and send the judge a letter telling him to go pound himself. See if he can find a cop willing to enforce his libtard blow job ruling.

John

Bama Steve
August 18, 2010, 20:49
Originally posted by onebigelf
I'm just getting tired of this crap. There is no constitutionally protected right not to be offended. How about if we just stop listening to the courts? Put the crosses up anyway and send the judge a letter telling him to go pound himself. See if he can find a cop willing to enforce his libtard blow job ruling.

John

THAT!

jeffrey
August 18, 2010, 22:54
Originally posted by Sailor553
And, after a short time - seldom maintained.

What a mealy mouthed answer.

Forget the fact that someone lost a loved one at that location, the Sailor is offended because no one took a string trimmer to the dandelions around the little cross.

martin35
August 18, 2010, 23:31
There is no constitutionally protected right not to be a nit wit either.
I've seen crosses tattooed on gang banger ears, foreheads, necks and other parts, they invoked no reverence in me.
A public right of way strewn with any and all manner of symbols thought significant will not serve the public interest.
If we had religious police they might use the cross symbolically.
True Christian faith does not use the cross as a in your face provocative symbol, a middle finger hand signal called the bird is universally understood,,the cross and star of David are used as symbols of faith,,,there is a appropriate decorum for most human interactions but some will never have need of them,,, just it's my way or the hi way.
The swastika, the spaghetti benders bundled hatchet, the rising sun, the crescent moon and star when used for evil intent bring shame to those symbols, discretion of a appropriate place and time of display require the use of some small intelligence.
Improper display or use will demean a symbol.

gman
August 19, 2010, 02:36
The Fairbanks-Northstar Borough banned memorials as they are a safety risk. One fellow decided to put one up after the judge told him not too. Cost fellow $5k. He put up another, cost him $10k. He kept it up until the judge had simply bankrupted the family and enriched the Borough.

There comes a point when you have to accept a loved one has passed and it is time to move on with your life.

I have no idea what the deal is with the memorials, it seems silly to me. What would the country look like if this "thing" had started back in the '20's? The US would be a garbage-yard.

juanni
August 19, 2010, 06:32
Originally posted by martin35

A public right of way strewn with any and all manner of symbols thought significant will not serve the public interest.


Bullseye!

Originally posted by gman


I have no idea what the deal is with the memorials, it seems silly to me. What would the country look like if this "thing" had started back in the '20's? The US would be a garbage-yard.

Bullseye #2!



.................juanni

Sailor553
August 19, 2010, 08:01
jeffy,

You missed the point. My response was to Martin's "the point of dozen anonymous memorial crosses on highways is not only contentious but vague of purpose." post.

Read more of Martin and gman's replies and learn - dipshit.

Hint: I'd wager that here in Texas there is hardly a few roads that do not have "crosses" strewn all over them. Seems every time someone is killed in an auto collision (even on private property) someone else finds it necessary to place some sort of "memorial" to the deceased. More often than not, these "memorials" become litter. Further, I do not require any constant reminders of someone's demise. If I did, I'd erect a tent at any one of the very many memorials in our Nation's Capital or any one of the many veteran's cemetaries. In the meantime, I will have to settle for traversing the burned asphalt where two young ladies were burned to death in their Jeep just outside of the entrance of one of the devopments were I work daily.

Ironically, I have yet to see any single "highway memorial" that displays a Star of David.

Feel free to travel here and provide monthly maintenance for these displays.

Blackmore
August 19, 2010, 08:32
Nearly 30 years ago when I was driving US 2 in western MT and eastern ID there were painted rebar crosses on the roadside. Even little ones for kids (I assume). Are they still there? Got to the point you could predict where you'd see them based on how curvy the road was.

TheOtherChris
August 19, 2010, 11:32
There are several things to consider here.

The 12-foot high white crosses with 6-foot horizontal crossbars are affixed with the patrol's beehive logo and a biography of the deceased trooper. That hardly constitutes litter.

First erected in 1998, monuments were paid for with private funds and erected only with the permission of the troopers' families. Nearly all of the 14 crosses are on public land and are well maintained.

The two men behind the cross project selected crosses for the memorials because the image of a cross can simultaneously convey a message of death, remembrance, honor, gratitude and sacrifice.

In 2006, the Utah Legislature passed a joint resolution declaring the cross a nonreligious secular symbol of death. Keep in mind that the majority of Utah's religious population are Mormons who do not use the cross as a religious symbol.

Outlaw Patriot
August 19, 2010, 12:02
Originally posted by martin35
I'm not clear on the function of these highway crosses, are there crosses on the cop's grave sites? One cross was enough for Jesus. Billboards are not normally allowed on highway right-of-ways they must be erected on private property by contractual lease or serve a needed public service,,,, maybe a simple sign asking "are you ready for judgement day?",,, naw that has to be painted on a rock,,, the point of dozen anonymous memorial crosses on highways is not only contentious but vague of purpose.

Crosses on the side of roads isnt a religious thing, its to remind people that there has been a fatal accident there, as in this road is capable of killing you easily if you dont pay attention.

I can tell you that they are very sobering if you're a little distracted, they work.

Originally posted by Blackmore
Nearly 30 years ago when I was driving US 2 in western MT and eastern ID there were painted rebar crosses on the roadside. Even little ones for kids (I assume). Are they still there? Got to the point you could predict where you'd see them based on how curvy the road was.

Yep, thats where this whole thing started, and they've been doing it for years. Maybe it works better up there since there are so few people.

The point has ALWAYS been to sober drivers up and remind them they are doing something potentially fatal.

The UT memorials sound different though 12 feet high and three across? Thats about 4 times the size of the MT crosses.

gman
August 19, 2010, 13:29
Originally posted by Sailor553
jeffy,

the burned asphalt where two young ladies were burned to death in their Jeep just outside of the entrance of one of the devopments were I work daily.



That sounds like a really bad accident. What happened? Did they get rear-ended and the tank go up?

martin35
August 19, 2010, 14:18
Jesus standing in the middle of the road will not stop foolish drivers and I never stop to read the significant small print on roadside crosses,,, I'm usually going someplace, if I can remember where it makes my day.
My heart can't hold all the memorial salutations for the passed over ,,, I'm too busy trying not to pass over my self and get what's coming to me,, I just genuflect and let'm go.
My life's heroism was unremarkable, so no sign of my ever being here will add to or prolong my historical relevance or remembrance, nor do I want it to.

Sailor553
August 19, 2010, 16:20
gman,

It was during a Spring Break down here on the Gulf. Around sunset two young gals in Wrangler turned in front of an oncoming pickup. The pickup slammed into them broadside. The Jeep crossed the road and landed on the opposite road shoulder and exploded. I was living in the development where the Jeep Landed. We heard a "boom".

I stepped out onto the 2nd floor deck and could see the fire. I wasn't sure if it was a car on fire or the small telephone company hut. I got my 10x50 binnochs and could see it was a Jeep. I couldn't see inside because of all the orange flames and black smoke.

I called 911 and headed to the front gate. I arrived at the same time the volunteer fire guys were stretching a 2" hose out. They sprayed the flames out. It was after the fire was out that we could all see the charred bodies of those two gals.

That Spring Break had two fatals from fire and a few more headon fatals. Every year some kids loose their lives down here. Friends will erecr these memorials and maintain them till they graduate (I guess). Texas is littered with such memorials.

I'll remember you - Martin.

martin35
August 19, 2010, 23:01
I'll remember you - Martin ,,,, and water your resting place.
You are thoughty for a sailor.

gauraprema
August 20, 2010, 06:39
I asked some folks why they put the crosses and flowers there and (mind you these were deep south black folk)and they said to help the soul find peace in case they were lost by the violence of the accident.I did'nt dispute just gave condolence and went my way.Now we have big white crosses all over the road sides in the blue ridge mountains and I like them as they are 3 and white and just give me a good feeling.One day some ass wipe will say we are littering when we put little flags on the graves of our family who were killed overseas in diferant wars.My experience with atheist is they pray at the time of death.Just my own experience but when I was in elementary school we prayed and said the pledge of allegiance "one nation under god,indivisible".JOHN 3:16

martin35
August 20, 2010, 11:22
There is a freedom from religion also,,, only it doesn't pay dividends because it requires no investment,,, put the wrong symbols in front of me and I'll wish a saddle horn accident on you..

jeffrey
August 21, 2010, 01:44
Sailor,
I did read the posts you mentioned. Well written and reasoned,yes. And, like your post, they seem totally ignorant / uninterested in the motives behind placing roadside memorials, and more interested in demonstrating disdain for the crosses. Some believers may irritate the sensibilities of unbelievers by their overt displays, but I think the vast majority try not to offend. So either the cross itself, or its' use as a memorial bothers you? That's ok. It won't kill you to be bothered.

I instinctively push back when people want to ban things because of the reasons you and the other posts espoused. Just because Martin isn't "clear on their function",and doesn't think they serve the public good, and they aren't well enough maintained for you doesn't necessarily mean they need to be banned.

And that's Mister Dipshit to you, smegma breath.:o

raexcct2
August 21, 2010, 04:18
Folks,

The crosses are there for the UTAH Higway troopers who were killed in the line of duty. Google how many UTAH law enforcement personnel have been hit/rear-ended while stopped on the shoulder and you would be surprised.

The crosses are as a remembrance of the troopers who died during their performance of duties.

Stupid atheists need to just get a life or drop dead.

RG Coburn
August 21, 2010, 07:30
How in hell would an athiest group based in Texas have any standing in court to sue Utah? Not like the crosses are blocking their view of Russia.

Sailor553
August 21, 2010, 07:49
Mister dipshit,

We all are well aware of the motives behind the placing of those roadside memorials. As offered, come on down and provide the much needed maintainence for them. I, myself, have no disdain for crosses or narrow minded people for that matter. And, certainly no desire to ban them. Cept maybe those like the Taliban. Twas just an observation of the day - as was the reference to the Star of David. Personally, I like hearing the bells each half hour from the distant catholic church throughout the day.

Thanks for playing.

In Missouri, they name bridges after their fallen troopers. You get some time to reflect between water crossings before the next bridge comes in view. Here, we used to have a section of highway named after a MOH reciepient who was born, raised and lived in the area. They changed that section of road back to the name of a dead senator from the big city instead. The tourists are left with the photos and a small memorial at a local cafe where we congregate - should they happen in.

smegma...that's a good one. Paranoid perhaps? Lighten up Francis.

Blue Monster
August 21, 2010, 09:41
Tis yet another silly legislation. While I am a pagan they don't bother me and as mentioned if they deter one drunk I am all for them.

the spaghetti benders bundled hatchet

You mean the Fasces, the one on our Dime, our Dollar and on each side of the Speaker of The House?

jeffrey
August 21, 2010, 10:34
Originally posted by Sailor553
They changed that section of road back to the name of a dead senator from the big city instead.


Quite appropriate! Given the current crop, dead senators should be
celebrated.

gunplumber
August 21, 2010, 11:15
Originally posted by martin35
A public right of way strewn with any and all manner of symbols thought significant will not serve the public interest.

I agree. An infant was killed when their car was rear-ended and my intersection - 3 years ago. The family still piles teddy bears around the cross. I'm sorry they lost their child. I can think of no greater pain than to outlive a child. But the child isn't buried there. At what point does it represent a desire on the family's part to be celebrated victims rather than a memorial.

Tens of thousands of people die on our nations roadways every year. My daughter starts driving next year. I am concerned. She has a greater chance dying on the highway than a soldier in Afghanistan or Iraq. It is the most dangerous thing she will do in her life and I can't seem to instill in her the need to be obsessively vigilant.

So if its okay to put up a cross for one guy, then its okay to put up a cross for everyone. 10,000 crosses on the side of the road becomes a hazard, not a memorial.

You want a memorial, build it on private property. Or buy a billboard in an area zoned for it. The billboard would be more of a message anyway. I've seen several Officer dedication memorials through Palm Springs area.

Also the adopt-a-highway signs.

Sorry, but the fact that he was a cop does not elevate him above his fellow citizens, and I think the judge made the right decision in this case.

In AZ we renamed a freeway in honor of a fallen soldier. We've lost a lot of AZ soldiers, but this one was more important than the others because she was the first female, American Indian killed in Iraq. I find that offensive. Her sex and race are completely irrelevant, and placing her above all of her fallen comrades is both racist and sexist.

Naming bridges and roads for a particular person who died says that their life (and death) was more valuable than another's. In my opinion, some people's lives are "worth" more than others, but it is not a determination for the State to make and shove down the throats of its citizens.