GOP Destroyed America

[wileycsg]

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/110297/reagan-insider-gop-destroyed-us-economy

""How my G.O.P. destroyed the U.S. economy." Yes, that is exactly what David Stockman, President Ronald Reagan's director of the Office of Management and Budget, wrote in a recent New York Times op-ed piece, "Four Deformations of the Apocalypse.""


This a piece that DeanP tried posting a couple of times but got pulled for technical reasons. Mods, this is only a link to a site and a section from it that is allowable under the fair usage laws. This post does not violate any copyright laws.

[juanni]

Yes, the GOP did its share along with the demos.

Now can we all just embrace failure and corruption and vote in another round of Status Quo of Failure/Corruption repubs this november to replace the Status Quo of Failure/Corruption dems and make Jokker and the Ruling Elite happy? :wink:



..............juanni

[2barearms]

Wiley,

A Democrat couldn't create a private sector job if you paid them.

We all can't work at Universities, Municipalities, Courts, Police, Firefighters
Teachers, Bureaucrats and the like, none of this stuff creates any cash
flow. Yet the bunch that's in the top slot now continue to expand an
already bloated government. More than 10% of the available work force
is employed by the City, State or Federal Government. This notion that
the GOP sank America is Crap, look at who Goldman gave the most money
to. Both parties and many individuals profited from the collapse of the
Real Estate, Insurance and Financial business. The Democrats are desperate
to find the October Surprise as long as it doesn't get printed in August.

[juanni]

Originally posted by 2barearms
Wiley,

This notion that the GOP sank America is Crap, look at who Goldman gave the most money to.

Yes, but now Wall St has shifted 2/3 of their political donations to the repubs.
They smell a Nov victory and are greasing the palms and getting in line.



..............juanni

[D P Six]

.....Read my lips GHWB put Slick Willy in office, Trailor Park Willy put in GWB, GW's compassionate conservatism gave us the 1st Kenyan President. And President O has all but guaranteed a renewed Republican conservative in the Oval Office. We are in a dance of endless madness.

[martin35]

Reusing condoms gives me a rash.
Steven Livingston wrote in the 3-21-10 Washington Post;
David Stockman's 1986 tell-all, "Triumph of Politics." Ironically, it is an excellent example of someone whose telling of the day-to-day facts is accurate, while he remains clueless about central aspects of the story -- a classic case of how a smart person can reach dumb conclusions. The main thesis, conveyed in the title, is that "politics" derailed serious fiscal reform in Ronald Reagan's first term. Imagine that! Politics -- seen in action in Congress and the White House! Who would ever think such an unusual thing would occur in Washington, D.C.? This strange detachment from reality is matched by Stockman's contempt for and misperception of Reagan, whom he found shallow and extreme -- judgments that subsequently appear poorly founded. As he wrote in his book, "I would never be comfortable with what I viewed as the primitive, right-wing conservatism of my grandfather or Goldwater -- or Reagan." And this: "I considered [Reagan] a cranky obscurantist whose political base was barnacled with every kook and fringe group that inhabited the vastly deep of American politics." (This, from the person who wanted to abolish the modern welfare state in toto.) And he proved his unfitness as a Reaganite by becoming, in his own words, "the Trotsky of the supply-side [economics] movement." It seems he figuratively put the ice pick in his head himself.
I agree.

[gates]

When will the sheeple wake the fuk up?

[martin35]

Most sheep just bleat when being castrated,,,, some take a dump or a leak or both as a extra dividend.

[TheJokker]

typical wileycsg (super-liberal blaming conservatives)...

summary: cutting taxes creates crushing debt. of course it totally ignores the massive welfare/entitlement state created by liberals.

blaming pro-business government policies and american business for the failure of socialism is typical of wileycsg. american business is the solution not the problem, commie...

[superjc]

Spending creates debt. What universe do these people live in? Oh right, the universe of "Other people's money must constantly flow downstream in a golden utopian ponzi that is not bound by the mathematical rule that the ponzi base must always widen exponentially... actually who cares, as long as I GET MINE".

[one hand clapping]

As long as the REAL POWERS can keep the sheeple seeing the issues of the day in a polarized fashion, they win. They OWN and have created BOTH sides of the isle. It will only be a "none of the two party canidates" election that MIGHT save us. However , given that the supply chain for the sheeple -food ,drink-smokes-electricty-gasoline-drugs, is OWNED ultimatly by the REAL powers, the sheeple will not rise up, but will devore themselves if the valves are shut off because a revolt was taking place..[which they will not start]

OHC

[juanni]

Originally posted by one hand clapping
As long as the REAL POWERS can keep the sheeple seeing the issues of the day in a polarized fashion, they win. They OWN and have created BOTH sides of the isle. It will only be a "none of the two party canidates" election that MIGHT save us.

Bullseye. :whiskey: :whiskey: :whiskey:




...............juanni

[juanni]

Originally posted by TheJokker


summary: cutting taxes creates crushing debt. of course it totally ignores the massive welfare/entitlement state created by liberals.


You ignore excess spending creates DEBT and the massive Warfare industry.


I guess that 1/2 of a brain that you are always talking about can only comprehend 1/2 the problem.




...............juanni

[fastback65]

Originally posted by one hand clapping
As long as the REAL POWERS can keep the sheeple seeing the issues of the day in a polarized fashion, they win. They OWN and have created BOTH sides of the isle. It will only be a "none of the two party canidates" election that MIGHT save us. However , given that the supply chain for the sheeple -food ,drink-smokes-electricty-gasoline-drugs, is OWNED ultimatly by the REAL powers, the sheeple will not rise up, but will devore themselves if the valves are shut off because a revolt was taking place..[which they will not start]

OHC

+1 F****ng A!

[cowbilly]

Ok Juanni, all crap aside, why so anti-military? The Government's only true mandate is defense and your against it, in fact almost every post you make has a jab at the military.

Just askin'.

[juanni]

Originally posted by cowbilly
Ok Juanni, all crap aside, why so anti-military? The Government's only true mandate is defense and your against it, in fact almost every post you make has a jab at the military.

Just askin'.

I am not anti military.
I am anti big govt!

You can't support a massive Welfare and Warfare state without massive taxes, destroying the rights of the individual and eliminating the open free market.
It is both Welfare and Warfare that is the problem.

Defense is not meddling in every other countries internal affairs, military bases all over the planet, unconstitutional wars and handing out cash and weapons to anybody and everybody........ and having 1/2 of the world's total military spending.





...................juanni

[cowbilly]

I'm against big government too. The welfare state has to go but military bases are necessary in order to reach out and touch someone. I know you have heard the old famous quote, "If you want peace then prepare for war". Being prepared is everything and that costs money. Your freedom comes at a high price, both blood and money. We cannot operate in this world from a position of weakness, to do so is folly.

[D P Six]

[i] having 1/2 of the world's total military spending.
[/B] And we are still unable to produce a clear cut military victory over the last 65 years. Could it be that militarism and foreign entanglements are proving to be the wrong fork in the road taken?

[martin35]

And we are still unable to produce a clear cut military victory over the last 65 years. Could it be that militarism and foreign entanglements are proving to be the wrong fork in the road taken?
Could it be we have confused warfare with a love-in or a feel good Boy Scouts merit badge?
Limited objectives achieve limited objectives of ever diminishing limits to the point where quitting can be deemed a win to win friends. Act like a limp wristed wimp and folks will treat you like a wimp. Stay out of the woods if you aint a grizzly. Grizzily Horibilus were only found on the North American Continent and putting duct tape on'm is risky as it should be.

[ggiilliiee]

our miitary has become obsolete...even with all the crap i made for em ;) .....we are still just walkin into the cannons ....

its not the fault of the troops ..they are heros ...along with all the folk who supply them with what they need to survive ....
but when your dealing with resources ...money talks ...the guy eating lunch with ya may kill ya later ....
we will win in iraq and afganny land about the same time they have complete proabition..

never going to happen
we better start thinkin like a hunter and let them amass ...then douche them ...douche them HARD

walkin down the street to see who gets shot first is not much of a tactic these days ....my opine ..


AND THANK GOD THEY ARE COMING HOME !!!!!!!

aint a dam thing we cant do with a predator ...build up on the ZEUS system,fill the sky with them , and start burnin USA logo's in their freekin foreheads while they sleep .......

[juanni]

Originally posted by cowbilly
I'm against big government too. The welfare state has to go but military bases are necessary in order to reach out and touch someone. I know you have heard the old famous quote, "If you want peace then prepare for war". Being prepared is everything and that cost money. Your freedom comes at a high price, both blood and money. We cannot operate in this world from a position of weakness, to do so is folly.

Nonsense.

The more you support a military empire, the more enemies you make, the more you have to support the military empire.

It is a non ending and bankrupting cycle.

The bankrupting part is here, the ending the empire will follow.



..............juanni

[martin35]

Should we act precipitously before we see where Obama 's world wide groveling leads?

[cowbilly]

Strength is nonsense?

Juanni, you're wronger than two boys swappin' spit in the shower and that's wrong.

Empire my foot.

As to the military being unable to win comment: The military is not allowed to win, it has been that way since the Korean War.

[martin35]

Which world war was avoided by disarming?
If you have nothing worth protecting disarm,,,, being naked presents it's own dilemma.

[Munster30]

Originally posted by juanni


Nonsense.

The more you support a military empire, the more enemies you make, the more you have to support the military empire.

It is a non ending and bankrupting cycle.

The bankrupting part is here, the ending the empire will follow.



..............juanni See how well kumbayah is working. What OBL said about a strong horse and weak horse has been known from the beginning of time.

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by juanni


I am not anti military.
I am anti big govt!

You can't support a massive Welfare and Warfare state without massive taxes, destroying the rights of the individual and eliminating the open free market.
It is both Welfare and Warfare that is the problem.

Defense is not meddling in every other countries internal affairs, military bases all over the planet, unconstitutional wars and handing out cash and weapons to anybody and everybody........ and having 1/2 of the world's total military spending.

...................juanni

no... you are just "anti" or stupid.

being anti big government means making a commitment to making it happen with are well-thought out plan that has a responsible probability of occurring.

your plan of opposing the republican party in favor of a third party only results in the election of radical socialists. a plan that increases the size of big government is not a plan to reduce it.

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by juanni


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by TheJokker


summary: cutting taxes creates crushing debt. of course it totally ignores the massive welfare/entitlement state created by liberals.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You ignore excess spending creates DEBT and the massive Warfare industry.


I guess that 1/2 of a brain that you are always talking about can only comprehend 1/2 the problem.

...............juanni

anybody with half a brain would understand that "the massive welfare/entitlement state created by liberals" "is" spending that creates debt ergo "nothing" was being ignored.

[davedude]

The more you support a military empire, the more enemies you make, the more you have to support the military empire.

oh sure it is one big happy kumbaya land until Americans get there, right juanni?

kinda just stepped on your own dick, didn't you?

ha ha

Dave Dude

[Munster30]

Originally posted by davedude


oh sure it is one big happy kumbaya land until Americans get there, right juanni?

kinda just stepped on your own dick, didn't you?

ha ha

Dave Dude No he didn't Dave, that presumes he could pull off such a feat in the first place.
The other thing is that Juannie is an isolationist Paullian and like his crazy doctor ignores the realities of the 21st century and actually the 20th as well: the world has grown too small and interconnected and no super power can afford to be an isolationist nation without creating a vacuum and putting itself and its interests in danger.

[wileycsg]

Originally posted by Munster30
No he didn't Dave, that presumes he could pull off such a feat in the first place.
The other thing is that Juannie is an isolationist Paullian and like his crazy doctor ignores the realities of the 21st century and actually the 20th as well: the world has grown too small and interconnected and no super power can afford to be an isolationist nation without creating a vacuum and putting itself and its interests in danger.

Whereas munster30, believes that our military should always put the interest of Israel first.

Let's try this again. No one is saying let America go defenseless. However, as stated, we currently spend more than the rest of the world combined. This includes allies such as England, Canada and Australia. Americanthinker can spin that however it wants but those are the facts.

[cowbilly]

China has a much larger force numbers wise, their cost per Soldier is obviously lower. Once we pull out of Iraq and Afganistan our cost for our military will drop dramatically while still maintaining our numbers.

Once again, what is wrong with the US have a strong military? Who cares what the rest of the world spends? Why is that relative to our situation? We have 300 million people to defend and A LOT of assets as well as business interests (for you economy watchers).

To cut our military any more is insane, we can barely handle what is going on right now. This suggestion of drastically cutting the military is pure stupidity and levied by those who simply don't understand the rules of the playground.

Russia, China, North Korea and Iran are not our friends. There are a great many countries that are on the fence and will support (and do business with the strongest ally). We still stand for something and we are alone in that ideal. We already have weak leadership, a weak military will set us up for failure for good.

The economy will rebound once the government learns to take a step back. Panic and kneejerk cuts will not solve the current economic woes.

[Heat]

Originally posted by juanni
Yes, the GOP did its share along with the demos.

Now can we all just embrace failure and corruption and vote in another round of Status Quo of Failure/Corruption repubs this november to replace the Status Quo of Failure/Corruption dems and make Jokker and the Ruling Elite happy? :wink:



..............juanni

2012 will see the same dopes here touting their NEOCON/AIPAC candidates

[juanni]

Originally posted by Munster30
No he didn't Dave, that presumes he could pull off such a feat in the first place.
The other thing is that Juannie is an isolationist Paullian and like his crazy doctor ignores the realities of the 21st century and actually the 20th as well: the world has grown too small and interconnected and no super power can afford to be an isolationist nation without creating a vacuum and putting itself and its interests in danger.

Yes the world has grown small, a superpower can no longer meddle and manipulate 1/2 way around the world with impunity and fear of retaliation.

As long as we keep thinking and acting like we can, we will the target of those that resent such actions.

Funny, but when the president of Mexico recently gave his 2 pesos of opinion about americas immigration policies and how illegals are entitled there was outrage that a foreign leader should be telling us what to do.

Yet most here think that the US can overthrow govts, bribe foreign leaders, dictate other nations internal/external polices, support terrorist groups, support oppressive dictators and that no one will be resentful and take action. :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:

Such insanity while our list of enemies grows.




..................juanni

[Munster30]

Originally posted by wileycsg


Whereas munster30, believes that our military should always put the interest of Israel first.

Did I say that? You assume too much Willy.

[davedude]

Such insanity while our list of enemies grows. ..................juanni

So it's the perfect time to disarm huh juanni?



Dave Dude

[TheJokker]

juanni cry's about american manufacturing moving offshore and is quick to point the finger of blame. slashing the military budget will slash funding and support for high technologies presently funded by military spending.

military spending is actually good for the economy and is constitutionally mandated therefore juanni/wileycsg/leftists are opposed.

juanni/wileycsg = "the new dabtl"

[juanni]

Originally posted by armarsh
Our military consumes 6% of the federal budget. If you want to really reduce deficits, look to entitlement spending first - it is something like 30%.

6% ?????

Come back when you have a clue. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:




...............juanni

[juanni]

Originally posted by TheJokker
juanni cry's about american manufacturing moving offshore and is quick to point the finger of blame. slashing the military budget will slash funding and support for high technologies presently funded by military spending.

military spending is actually good for the economy and is constitutionally mandated therefore juanni/wileycsg/leftists are opposed.

juanni/wileycsg = "the new dabtl"


Insolvency is good for the economy?? :rolleyes:


..............juanni

[juanni]

Originally posted by armarsh


Military spending was 6% of GDP (2008), including war funding. Entitlement spending was 11.2% of GDP. Sorry - I said 6% of the federal budget.

My point is just as valid: entitlements consume much more than what the military does, even fighting two wars. It makes sense to start cutting there.

Accepted. :)

But if you total military/defense/foreign aid including the depts like Energy, NASA, that basically are defense, pensions, benefits, medical care, VA loans, GI Bills, cleaning up military toxic waste and interest being paid on past accumulated war debt/military spending the whopping total is now close to 50% of Federal spending. :eek:

That is unsustainable and must be cut.




.................juanni

[davedude]

Juanni you would love the military industrial complex portrayed in the Warhammer 40,000 series of books. Whole planets dedicated to manufacturing war material to support never ending war. Your type of environment.

Would you be so adamant about cutting military spending if you were actually in the military and deployed on the front lines?

I think not. Your bird-brain dream of socialist kumbaya happy land will never happen. Man will always be at war, and America will have the big military stick for a long time to come. You WILL help pay for it too. Better get over it.

As a matter of fact, you are paying my salary. Thank you.

Dave Dude

[juanni]

Originally posted by davedude
Juanni you would love the military industrial complex portrayed in the Warhammer 40,000 series of books. Whole planets dedicated to manufacturing war material to support never ending war. Your type of environment.

Would you be so adamant about cutting military spending if you were actually in the military and deployed on the front lines?

I think not. Your bird-brain dream of socialist kumbaya happy land will never happen. Man will always be at war, and America will have the big military stick for a long time to come. You WILL help pay for it too. Better get over it.

As a matter of fact, you are paying my salary. Thank you.

Dave Dude

Wow Dave that is a lot of goofy extrapolalating.
Cutting a massive defense budget in half hardly makes us defenseless and "socialist kumbaya happy land", but thanks for sharing that your paycheck is dependent on a bankrupt taxpayer and real reason for your desire to maintain unsustainable military spending. ;)

If anybody has to get over anything, it is YOU.
Defense is going to be slashed, it has to be.

May I suggest brushing up your resume early, before the rush. :p



..............juanni

[TheJokker]

the "american way" of doing things through two centuries has proven to be a model for success. we have strayed from that path and it is time to correct the problems. not by coincidence juanni and liberals are calling for military cuts instead of social programs. they are ignoring both the economic benefits derived from military spending but also the probable results from a leaderless world when the balance of power spins out of control. historically speaking very bad things happen when america isolates.

why are we even discussing cutting military spending from a historically modest level when quasi-communist programs are spinning out of control? why not rebuild america in a manner consistent with the "american way" of generations past?

1) embrace capitalism and make america the most pro-business friendly country in the world

2) cut the size and scope of the federal government to a size that is affordable (i.e. eliminate socialist programs and agencies)

rather than undoing the damage and staying true to the american formula juanni and his ilk would have us ditch the girl we brought to the dance for a euro-trash skank.

[davedude]

Wow Dave that is a lot of goofy extrapolalating. Cutting a massive defense budget in half hardly makes us defenseless and "socialist kumbaya happy land", but thanks for sharing that your paycheck is dependent on a bankrupt taxpayer and real reason for your desire to maintain unsustainable military spending. If anybody has to get over anything, it is YOU. Defense is going to be slashed, it has to be. May I suggest brushing up your resume early, before the rush. ..............juanni

extrapolating? I knew you would like that Juanni. Just imagine, war on a galactic scale, and the unrestrained mother of all military industrial complexes feeding it.

I am all for cutting waste in the defense industry juanni, and I recommend we lay off all the liberals infesting it first.

A juanni style socialist kumbaya happy land never existed and never will. There has always been war and will always be war. What is it with you liberals that you must bend over and spread ass cheeks to the worlds worst despots?

I do semiconductor material science research Juanni. Been funded by YOU for twenty years now. But not dependent on it. Ever use a Iphone or Ipad? Any broadband rf communications? Sat com equipment? Our stuff is in the hottest of teh hot consumer crap right now too. Hey, guess what juanni, I just got a big profit sharing check, our last quarter was friggin awesome. We cannot make enuf stuff and we make shit no one else in the whole f*cking world can. They all are scrambling to figure out how we do it.

Do you like superbright LEDS juanni? Nitride based semiconductor materials systems are teh hot right now. Cutting edge.

I will wait until after november juanni, to worry about my resume. The folks that need to worry are the public sector unions and all the rest of the socialist blood-sucking leach-f*ckers. Thats the sh*t that will be slashed dude. Socialism is dead, get over it.

Dave Dude

[juanni]

Originally posted by TheJokker


why are we even discussing cutting military spending from a historically modest level

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

CraZy talk.

The historically modest level you refer to is post WWII spending of opposing the Soviet Union, perpetual wars.... Korean, Vietnam, Gulf I, Iraq, Afghan, Intenational meddling at every level in every region, expanding of world wide military bases ALL supported by post WWII economic superiority and ever escalating deficts that are never repayed or reduced.

That post WWII economic support has come to an end and so will the planets appetite for buying our debt.





................juanni

[Sailor553]

Bob Gates weighs in... (http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/08/16/robert-gates-plans-a-last-hurrah-to-control-defense-spending-bef/?icid=main|htmlws-main-n|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.politicsdaily.com%2F2 010%2F08%2F16%2Frobert-gates-plans-a-last-hurrah-to-control-defense-spending-bef%2F)

[martin35]

GOP Destroyed America
More accurately the GOP has not saved America ,,,,, from Liberalism and Socialism. In that failure to moderate the GOP was conversely moderated towards it adversaries. Gates seems to be a man of circumspect pragmatism who is more a evenhanded in his bureaucracy than most in his position.

[ThunderGod]

The question is: do we learn from Rome, or do we appease the Visigoths for another season?

[martin35]

The question is: do we learn from Rome, or do we appease the Visigoths for another season?
Our Visigoths are protected by our Constitution,,, the Visigoth's constitution is not as restrictive with extended rules of engagement.

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by juanni


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

CraZy talk.

The historically modest level you refer to is post WWII spending of opposing the Soviet Union, perpetual wars.... Korean, Vietnam, Gulf I, Iraq, Afghan, Intenational meddling at every level in every region, expanding of world wide military bases ALL supported by post WWII economic superiority and ever escalating deficts that are never repayed or reduced.

That post WWII economic support has come to an end and so will the planets appetite for buying our debt.

................juanni

not so crazy...

look at the 19th century: manifest destiny and expansion westward, mexican and indian wars, teddy roosevelt and big stick foreign policy, america has been an expansive, militaristic nation.

with the stock market crash america pulled back into isolationism to recover but at what cost? america and europe had the chance to stop hitler when it was economical to do so but waited and paid a very, very, very heavy price to do so in dollars and lives.

the federalists became politically extinct for advocating the folly you are suggesting...

[juanni]

Originally posted by TheJokker


not so crazy...

look at the 19th century: manifest destiny and expansion westward, mexican and indian wars, teddy roosevelt and big stick foreign policy, america has been an expansive, militaristic nation.


Yes we have, and yet you see no connection between our expansive, militaristic history and our constantly growing list of enemies. :rolleyes:



..............juanni

[martin35]

The imposing will impose on the unimposing and imposing alike, but usually save the most imposing for last the imposition,,, if you don't want to be imposed on be the most imposing in the woods. (I'm having this embroidered on a sampler)

[juanni]

Originally posted by martin35
The imposing will impose on the unimposing and imposing alike, but usually save the most imposing for last the imposition,,, if you don't want to be imposed on be the most imposing in the woods. (I'm having this embroidered on a sampler)

Those that have imposed on others while financially strong should expect like treatment when they have eventually become financially weak. :wink:




................juanni

[martin35]

Those that have imposed on others while financially strong should expect like treatment when they have eventually become financially weak.
When you are tap city don't expect those who owe you to step up,,, what part of the world was never given of US aid? To some degree I agree with you our irresponsibility is it's own reward.

[Tailback]

1) I really wish the mods would every now and then do an ISP scan and check for duplicate usernames.

2) Read the constitution and get back with me on which branch of Govt. controls spending and taxation. Hint...it changed party ownership in January of 2007 and for extra credit you can compare the spending of it's predecessors in the 44 months prior to January 2007 to the 44 months since.

[juanni]

Originally posted by Tailback
1) I really wish the mods would every now and then do an ISP scan and check for duplicate usernames.

2) Read the constitution and get back with me on which branch of Govt. controls spending and taxation. Hint...it changed party ownership in January of 2007 and for extra credit you can compare the spending of it's predecessors in the 44 months prior to January 2007 to the 44 months since.

3) The President has the power to VETO, but only if he takes the cap off the pen.

Get back to us on which President didn't veto any spending bills for 6 YEARS!


Both parties are guilty, so are the voters that support them.



.............juanni