More Good News-- An Emerging Plutonomy

[Gary Harwell]

Here is another one for the O to sink his teeth into, don't know just yet, but he will find some way. I had never heard of a plutonomy ,or forgot, until this news article. Has this ever happened anywhere in recent times, last 4 hundred years? Rome comes to mind looking way back. Look where they went.

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/110258/us-economy-is-increasingly-tied-to-the-rich

[carguym14]

I have never heard of a plutonomy either-learned something new.

Sure doesn't bode well for the future.

[ggiilliiee]

pssssst ...i think we ARE rome ...ceasear ,senators taxpayers ...corrupton ...
whats different ...

[rowjimmy]

There are over 50,000 registered falfilers. What if we all moved to Idaho, Wyoming or Montana and seceded? I know its been tried before (secession)with poor results, but WTF? What do we really have to lose? Our Sacred Honor if we do nothing?

[nwobhm]

Originally posted by ggiilliiee
pssssst ...i think we ARE rome ...ceasear ,senators taxpayers ...corrupton ...
whats different ...

Yup.

[offshore44]

Originally posted by rowjimmy
There are over 50,000 registered falfilers. What if we all moved to Idaho, Wyoming or Montana and seceded? I know its been tried before (secession)with poor results, but WTF? What do we really have to lose? Our Sacred Honor if we do nothing?

I'd like to nominate Oregon instead for very selfish reasons...come on down! We have lots of resources, pretty decent infrastructure, good folks outside of Portland, Salem and Eugene, easy access to the ocean through more than one port and a small but sophisticated manufacturing base.

We didn't start to get liberalized (kalifornacated?) until about 1975 or so.

We have an easily defended river to the north, some pretty serious mountains to the south and Idaho and Nevada to the east. You could probably pull it off here.

[FAL freek]

American politicians and business tycoons are the new royalty. Look soon for the peasants to huddle around their estates to eek out a living selling high quality custom made goods to the new royalty for pennies of profit.

[gates]

Off - but you have UGLY wimmins in OR! spent the first 18 years of my life in that state - first day on Arizona States campus I sez - self - theres some UGLY women in Oregon!

[offshore44]

OK, I can't argue with that. There are some scary - ugly wimmins out and about.

If ya'all move here maybe we can work on that as well...

[Barbcue]

Originally posted by gates
Off - but you have UGLY wimmins in OR! spent the first 18 years of my life in that state - first day on Arizona States campus I sez - self - theres some UGLY women in Oregon!

I live just outside the Oregon Border in Cali..for a reason !

:D

[TheJokker]

vanderbilts, carnigie, rockafeller. big names from the beginning of the 20th century. america is great because "anybody" can become rich and join the plutonomy.

[wileycsg]

Originally posted by TheJokker
vanderbilts, carnigie, rockafeller. big names from the beginning of the 20th century. america is great because "anybody" can become rich and join the plutonomy.

Here I thought that America's people made it great. It seems you (along with the other neo-cons) believe that citizens must led and controlled by a few of our "betters"

[ggiilliiee]

ugly women ???gates/bbq that was the blue oyster bar!!!!!! ,,,those werent women ....

speak for your self ..sometime ugly attracts ....or ugly is as ugly, is gonna do ...

if i could only post my pictorial portfolio ..youd crak your POS T VAC, and ya know how tough it is for ya to find those PETITE models .....;)

oh yeah were hiring like crazy .....but we dont take flatlanders .....too weak .....for burly man work ...

[Eric Bryant]

A large disparity in wealth and income cannot be sustained in a democracy (or a democratic republic).

We can't all join the top 5%, and the upward mobility of the few is not enough to sustain our desired standard of living unless they are willing to share in the wealth. Plutocrats of times past were cut from a different cloth than our current upper class; it doesn't take anything more than an examination of income demographics to prove this point.

[ggiilliiee]

remember what happened to el douche bag ...the powerful ARE ONLY in power for life

and life can be short in a poorly lit parkin garage ..crappy cameras and all ...

HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING ....bonner should invest in a body armour company ......lots of treeline on a golf course ...
the funny part is all my life in the shops ..its always the rich boss who comes out into the shop to ask the peons how to make the shop more productive ...
as he was unable to change the tire on his Glan Rover ....his wife had to do it for him ...

im not worried , rich are just "targets" in bad times ...and 99% are instantly useless when the power goes off ..

[cpd109]

From the article:
By contrast, the bottom 80% by income account for 39.5% of all consumer outlays.

Guns, bullets, beans?

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by wileycsg


Here I thought that America's people made it great. It seems you (along with the other neo-cons) believe that citizens must led and controlled by a few of our "betters"

you are a stupid liberal communist. are "rich" people non-americans who have no rights? how many rich people were once poor and became rich because of the opportunities america provides. do they stop being great once they become rich?

rich = employers
attack the rich = attacking employers
attacking employers = attacking employees

why do you hate the workers of america?
(because you are a dirty liberal socialist)

[shlomo]

The magic of America is that everyone can be above average, and become part of the top 5% income earners.

So sayeth the Jokker (sic), so let it be done.

[wileycsg]

Originally posted by TheJokker


you are a stupid liberal communist. are "rich" people non-americans who have no rights? how many rich people were once poor and became rich because of the opportunities america provides. do they stop being great once they become rich?

rich = employers
attack the rich = attacking employers
attacking employers = attacking employees

why do you hate the workers of america?
(because you are a dirty liberal socialist)

Yeah. I guess you're right. Believing that common workers are citizens just like the wealthy makes someone a communist.:rolleyes: Also, if you use enough equal signs then a plutocracy must be the best way to go. Stupid is as the jokker does. :rofl:

[chrsdwns]

Plutonomy is an accurate description of where we are heading.

There is a definite shift towards the concentration of power, political and economic, in the hands of very few people and these same people are taking advantage of the current economic crisis to extend and consolidate this hold on power.


Government is go to end up owning a substantial portion of the residential real estate market which they will use to extend the participation of the Section 8 government funded housing market to a much wider segment of the population in a drive to impose back door socialism.

On the private side, investor groups and banks are in a position to take the profits from the bail out, stimulus and market manipulation to and use that liquidity to buy up huge tracts of distressed real estate (caused in large part buy those same destructve programs) when the market crashes and no one else has the liquid cash to purchase them.

In effect, they will be in a position to use borrowed Government Money supplied by money borrowed taxpayers, to buy assets from those same taxpayers for pennies on the dollar once they have run the selling prices into the ground by destructive economic policies combined with the mother of all liquidity crisis such as was seen in Sept 2008- only this time there will be no quick fix and we are now totally out of money for stimulus funding to prop up the system.

So what the government would not control, their wealthy cronies and collaborators (both foreign and domestic) in the private sector would control.

If it happens, we can consider it the hostile takeover of the collective assets of the people of the United States.

This is one path we very well may be going down.

I hope I am wrong in this analysis , but all of the pieces seem to be falling into place for this to play out and it would seem to be in line with what we have seen over the last several years..

[Gary Harwell]

" only this time there will be no quick fix and we are now totally out of money for stimulus funding to prop up the system."
_______________
I agree with your post ,except they will continue to print until they run out of ink, then they will work a deal with China to sell off federal lands to buy more ink. Nothing is stopping them now. They will not stop until they have TOTAL(arian) control. There was a headline today that without revolution, Americans is finished. The Fall elections are meaningless .Only the names will change to protect the guilty. . As other smart people here have said before, it is way too late for revolution.We are way too far down the road to correct this mess.

http://www.infowars.com/the-ecstasy-of-empire/

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by shlomo
The magic of America is that everyone can be above average, and become part of the top 5% income earners.

So sayeth the Jokker (sic), so let it be done.

bill gates = rags to riches

the list of similar stories is rather long. it's part of the formula that makes america great. you can take the side of capitalism on this issue and stand with me or embrace unions and socialism and stand with wileycsg.

are you a traditional america or a eurotrash wannabe?

[shlomo]

http://rightwingnuthouse.com/images/r4063126796.jpg

I love it when the slider is working.

[ggiilliiee]

jokker ...florida =social security state ...why do you live there ...are you a pinko ?? commie ..lesbian activist ???..mutant hog waxer ...what are you ....bet ya do work for those disgusting ssi folks collecting "their" money NOT YOURS .....get it in your frikin head ...there is a frikin 2.7 trill surplus ...in ssi .wont even be any trouble till 2037 ..but your boys spent it on tax breaks for bill dummass gates ...(got rich sellin stupid fuks 3k systems that are outdated in 9 months .awesome dude ..
you vote boner head in and buddy youll get your chance to work ...rite up untill your 75 ..(a round of golf will be alot more then )...if ya make it that long ...but ya wont cause all the regs will be tossed out the door ...and youll be crab bait like the guys on the oil rig and the mines ....but then again yer in fl ..how could ya get hurt workin there ...ya dont produce anything of value ...cali oranges are much better ..thats about all yer state has .start producing something important ...then bitch .

[Gary Harwell]

Older thread here, but the details are in the headlines today. .. ties into a couple of other relevant threads at the top of this forum. The middle class is being systematically controlled. The Wally world figures are showing up in several commentaries. Another headline in Drudge says 1 in 6 now using gov. handouts. That's a lot of voters. There are people in need, but why not let the country flourish and help them. Because,that would not fit the socialist agenda. I agree, the ,the whites of their eyes...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/78e785dc-b3b2-11df-81aa-00144feabdc0.html

[Gary Harwell]

If you don't want to register for the link, it's on Drudge, along with a good contrast photo of Russia's leader and our non-leader.

[one hand clapping]

Joker the thing you are missing is that in the past americans gave each other a hand up. that chain was broken in the 70's on purpose. If we all kept moving up those on top would not have as much control, hense they took the mills apart and announced we were moving to a "service economy = serf's serving the top 4 %. I did not decide that , the rockefellers and morgans did. we've been SOLD OUT. get it , it is not a glass celing its now made of iron.

[L Haney]

40 Million on food stamps today. But, this aint' a depression.

[Eric Bryant]

The way to avoid welfare and excessive taxation of the rich is to make sure that a majority of voters own a majority of the country's wealth. Once the middle class is destroyed and its wealth transferred to a small minority, it becomes extremely difficult to implement sensible tax laws and avoid a transition to a welfare state.

As I see things, the rich have three options: 1) rebuild the middle class; 2) suffer from a forced redistribution of wealth; or 3) destroy the democratic republic and replace it with a fascist state.

[gates]

3

[carguym14]

Originally posted by gates
3


That's the choice I see them making as well..............:(

[Nick H.]

Eric, your insights are thought provoking.

I have felt for a long time that Karl Marx will win if our path continues on its present course. If, the perception of the voter is, "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer", then the voter will vote for people like Obama.

If we want capitalism to succeed, we need a strong middle class that feels successful. After WWII, America was very worried about the communist menace. Oddly enough, CEOs usually made less than 10 X the assembly like worker. America built a strong middle class and the workers were proud to work hard for their company and their country.

After the red menace faded from our collective minds, CEO salaries have grown to more than 100 X the assembly line worker. As Marx said, the workers will rise up and revolt. In this country they do it at the polls in November and we have seen the direction it is taking us.

I don't know how to fix the problem. I just feel like I am on a roller coaster and I just have to hang on and see where we end up. Even if I see we are going to crash, there isn't much I can do about it.

[Gary Harwell]

Pat Buchanan in his editorial today put a lot of this discussion in perspective and summary. Yes, it does look like a out of control roller coaster. There really is not going to be any real fiscal change after the elections this November. A message may be sent to the marxist in charge, but he is probably going to get the last laugh.

Where is Juanni btw?

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=38770

[brunop]

I don't know where Juanni is, but he'd agree with the last bit you posted...

"...there is not going to be any real fiscal change after the elections..."

because he's been saying the same thing for months or years.


Republicans brought you TARP. Jokker doesn't like being reminded of that. Republican-appointed Asst Sec Treasury said on National Television:

"...uh, we don't know where the money went."

Democrats (nationally) are Shyte. Republicans are Shyte Light. I'm still not signing up for that sandwich - no matter how many times Jokker and others remind me that it is better than the (only?) alternative.

I'd rather go hungry. Call me crazy. Or a dirty liberal socialist. Or whatever.

[brunop]

Meanwhile, is the writer a shill? Third paragraph:

"In the third quarter of 1990, the top 5% accounted for 25% of consumer outlays. That held relatively steady until the mid-1990s, when it started inching up past 30%. It dipped in 2003 and again in 2008, but started surging in 2009 amid the greatest bull market rally in history, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average rising nearly 50% in the last nine months of the year..." (emphasis mine)

Uh, I think the jury may still be out on that one. But I'm a dirty hippie liberal, so I may be wrong.

[brunop]

Finally, I would agree with Jokker on the early point that America is great because anyone can join the rich club.

At the foundation of such a statement is the too-often-taken-for-granted fact that this is (has been) largely a meritocracy: a guy gets paid for what he brings to the table. He doesn't have to be a member of the House of Lords to get a loan, he doesn't have to be a member of a certain 'class' or caste to have educational opportunities. Finally, that even if he doesn't get rich, he has the opportunity to try. Frequently he finds something he loves to do, and sticks with it. Hello, Middle Class. And, on top of that, he is Above Average on the world scale AND (maybe) on Satisfaction Scale. Note that he is Below Average when compared to Federal Gov't Bureaucrat wages...

I don't think the "America is Great" statement ever originated from the idea that her people are great. I believe that it did, in fact, originate from the idea that America gives opportunity to all - regardless of their "birthright". This attracted people who wanted to take a risk to test their 'mettle' - and this is how we got the 'great' people. It is still happening: I give you Andy C., the gman, and Hagar as examples we all know.

Currently we are attracting people who see this as a good place to get a hand-out. And we are attracting people who see the legal/justice system as soft, and who are interested in preying on another group of citizens.

I don't think we are in danger of losing our 'greatness' by dint of the immigration/border problem. That poses huge risks, but that's a different topic. We are in terrible danger of losing our greatness if we lose our 'meritocracy' - and we are in danger thanks to the Bank and Federal policy and taxes (all three go together, of course).

[Gary Harwell]

Well articulated, +1

My comment is that the next generations will not even have the opportunity to move up, or even be part of the meritocracy. The plutocrat children will of course. The middle class is fast losing its bestowment or "inheritance" to its children and grandchildren.

[JohnnyV1966]

Originally posted by TheJokker




rich = employers
attack the rich = attacking employers
attacking employers = attacking employees

why do you hate the workers of america?
(because you are a dirty liberal socialist)


I think your comments are overly simplistic. Clearly the business elite and Investor Class have been getting their way for an awful long time in this country. Just look at all the Trade Deals that have been negotiated, Lowered Tariffs, Factories exported, Foreign Staff hired and importantly Domestic US staff fired. Expansion of H-1B visas? Foreign staffers hired and move to the US, US staff fired. One only has to read Bill Gates testimony to congress and compare that with the comments of Professor Norman Matloff. Failure to enforce our border? Just look at all those entering illegally, after all they perform jobs Americans wont do we are told. Clearly another lie as its more like jobs Americans won't do at "X" price so increase the supply of labor and employers win.

The repeal Glass-Stegal was another win advocated by the rich all in the name of Global Competititon. Glass-Stegal was passed out of excesses of the financial industry as a reaction to the unethical behavior of banks during the early 1920s and prior. After the act was repealed unethical excesses of the Financial Industry caused problems for the macro economy once again.

Who are you kidding Jokker?

Business Interests coupled with Governmental Powere = Fascism

[JohnnyV1966]

Originally posted by Eric Bryant
The way to avoid welfare and excessive taxation of the rich is to make sure that a majority of voters own a majority of the country's wealth. Once the middle class is destroyed and its wealth transferred to a small minority, it becomes extremely difficult to implement sensible tax laws and avoid a transition to a welfare state.

As I see things, the rich have three options: 1) rebuild the middle class; 2) suffer from a forced redistribution of wealth....

Plus One!

[JohnnyV1966]

Originally posted by Nick H.
Eric, your insights are thought provoking.

I have felt for a long time that Karl Marx will win if our path continues on its present course. If, the perception of the voter is, "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer", then the voter will vote for people like Obama.

If we want capitalism to succeed, we need a strong middle class that feels successful. After WWII, America was very worried about the communist menace. Oddly enough, CEOs usually made less than 10 X the assembly like worker. America built a strong middle class and the workers were proud to work hard for their company and their country.

After the red menace faded from our collective minds, CEO salaries have grown to more than 100 X the assembly line worker. As Marx said, the workers will rise up and revolt. In this country they do it at the polls in November and we have seen the direction it is taking us.

I don't know how to fix the problem. I just feel like I am on a roller coaster and I just have to hang on and see where we end up. Even if I see we are going to crash, there isn't much I can do about it.


No doubt about it. In 1965, your average CEO made between 25-40 times what the person at the bottom of the organization made.

Your comments are apt. Anyone who has any money at all should be very concerned as in time the poor will demand everything. Worst of all the CEO and Investor class are economically betraying their fellow Americans.

As a conservative I am troubled that we have the likes of Former CEO Carly Fiorina seeking a Senate Seat. As she was quoted by several media sources that "Americans no longer have a right to a job any more" Another republican is Rick Snyder who is running for Michigan Governor. You may remember while CEO of now defunct Gateway Computer he offshored 18,000 US jobs and the company lost two of its best strengths ie outstanding customer service and a fantastic computer. Gateways Assets were sold to Acer Computer a Taiwanese firm. Gateway shareholders lost everything. Rick got his Golden Parachute and now seeks elective office as a "Jobs Creator" Perhaps for the Chinese but not those in the United States. Another republican is a man named Portman of Ohio another who works for the Outsourcing Industry and wants our vote.

These people should be barred from ever holding public office in this country as they seem to be dismantling this great nations economic engine piecemeal in the name of higher profits while condeming the nation and its citizens to third world status with their hand streteched out. Nothing conservative about them or their concern for National Security. J

[brunop]

Originally posted by JohnnyV1966



I think your comments are overly simplistic. Clearly the business elite and Investor Class have been getting their way for an awful long time in this country....

The repeal Glass-Stegal was another win advocated by the rich all in the name of Global Competititon. Glass-Stegal was passed out of excesses of the financial industry as a reaction to the unethical behavior of banks during the early 1920s and prior. After the act was repealed unethical excesses of the Financial Industry caused problems for the macro economy once again.

Who are you kidding Jokker?

Business Interests coupled with Governmental Powere = Fascism

Nailed it.

Capitalism with a small 'c' is what we all practice. Capitalism with a big 'C' is for Capitalists (bankers), and it is a different set of rules - wherein they buy assistance (policy. laws, etc.) from our reps to ensure their (both parties') futures.

Capitalism with a big 'C' is fascism today. The difference is that GM is a very public exception to the rule as opposed to the 'norm'. But the hidden Fed & Investment Bank control on the entire market (black box companies injecting liquidity into the market, quantitative easing, etc.) is governmental support for the new (old) Robber Barons.

Jokker doesn't like the unwinding of the simple world view, but Capitalism today isn't the capitalism our forefathers gave us, just as foreign policy today isn't the Do Right policy of WWII that our grandfathers fought for. Uncomfortable, but true.

[brunop]

Originally posted by JohnnyV1966



No doubt about it. In 1965, your average CEO made between 25-40 times what the person at the bottom of the organization made.

Your comments are apt. Anyone who has any money at all should be very concerned as in time the poor will demand everything. Worst of all the CEO and Investor class are economically betraying their fellow Americans.

As a conservative I am troubled that we have the likes of Former CEO Carly Fiorina seeking a Senate Seat. As she was quoted by several media sources that "Americans no longer have a right to a job any more" Another republican is Rick Snyder who is running for Michigan Governor. You may remember while CEO of now defunct Gateway Computer he offshored 18,000 US jobs and the company lost two of its best strengths ie outstanding customer service and a fantastic computer. Gateways Assets were sold to Acer Computer a Taiwanese firm. Gateway shareholders lost everything. Rick got his Golden Parachute and now seeks elective office as a "Jobs Creator" Perhaps for the Chinese but not those in the United States. Another republican is a man named Portman of Ohio another who works for the Outsourcing Industry and wants our vote.

These people should be barred from ever holding public office in this country as they seem to be dismantling this great nations economic engine piecemeal in the name of higher profits while condeming the nation and its citizens to third world status with their hand streteched out. Nothing conservative about them or their concern for National Security. J

Didn't nail it.

Fiorina is right - Americans don't have a "right" to have a job. In past generations a person was taught and prepared to have to compete for a job. If you own an s-corp landscape business, and your Northern European descended employees tell you they need a raise just at the very moment you've been questioning their time sheets, but one of your Mexican-American foremen says that he's got ten buddies who will do the job for the old (current) pay and that they will bust their butts, will you fire your white American employees? I would.

Unions are the reps for your white American employees in this story. No wonder that companies are trying to take advantage of using hard working, competitive people who WANT the job of building your computer or cell phone or whatever. Especially since these big manufacturing concerns are trying to compete with other companies (German, French, Swedish, Finnish, British, etc.) that are using the SAME LABOR RATES. Did you want these American companies to close their doors permanently because they can't compete?

If you want off-shoring to stop: a) bye-bye unions (won't happen), b) reality check in wages (won't happen - by the way, do you know that German wages are still at the same level as 1996?), c) tax cuts (won't happen).

I teach Sunday School for the 13-year-olds at church. I asked the kids just last Sunday what their favorite day ever was. Kids said stuff like: a) um, I don't know, b) when my mom and dad leave me alone, c) I get to play video games all day. Then the kid who is here from Korea with his family on a one year sabbatical: "For an entire year I studied and took extra class work to prepare for an entrance test for a school specializing in foreign diplomacy candidacy for students; last week I found out that I had been accepted. I was honored and excited about my accomplishments." In perfect, almost accent-free English. Wanna know which kid I hope to hire some day?

I don't know anything about Gateway's history, but I know that they were in a cut-throat industry playing against Asian giants that are manufacturing in China and paying Chinese labor rates. You know who the problem is, right? It isn't Gateway: it is all the Americans that buy cheap Chinese crap. How about all the US vets that bitch and moan about no jobs, and American manufacturing, and US security, and blah, blah, blah, but they go shopping at Wal-Mart and buy EXCLUSIVELY CHINESE-MADE STUFF? Of course Gateway is going to try to compete, or their shareholders will FIRE THE CEO, and the doors will close forever - no American jobs OR off-shore jobs.

Americans are the source (and the answer) to America's problems. It isn't the CEOs: they are trying to keep their million-dollar jobs. They can only do it by making a profit - the shareholders will vote them out otherwise. American shareholders, usually. And American consumers vote with their dollars. That's the way it works.

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by brunop
Finally, I would agree with Jokker on the early point that America is great because anyone can join the rich club.

At the foundation of such a statement is the too-often-taken-for-granted fact that this is (has been) largely a meritocracy: a guy gets paid for what he brings to the table. He doesn't have to be a member of the House of Lords to get a loan, he doesn't have to be a member of a certain 'class' or caste to have educational opportunities. Finally, that even if he doesn't get rich, he has the opportunity to try. Frequently he finds something he loves to do, and sticks with it. Hello, Middle Class. And, on top of that, he is Above Average on the world scale AND (maybe) on Satisfaction Scale. Note that he is Below Average when compared to Federal Gov't Bureaucrat wages...

I don't think the "America is Great" statement ever originated from the idea that her people are great. I believe that it did, in fact, originate from the idea that America gives opportunity to all - regardless of their "birthright". This attracted people who wanted to take a risk to test their 'mettle' - and this is how we got the 'great' people. It is still happening: I give you Andy C., the gman, and Hagar as examples we all know.

Currently we are attracting people who see this as a good place to get a hand-out. And we are attracting people who see the legal/justice system as soft, and who are interested in preying on another group of citizens.

I don't think we are in danger of losing our 'greatness' by dint of the immigration/border problem. That poses huge risks, but that's a different topic. We are in terrible danger of losing our greatness if we lose our 'meritocracy' - and we are in danger thanks to the Bank and Federal policy and taxes (all three go together, of course).
finally... somebody gets it...

we don't need to attack the rich because they are doing what they have always been doing. the rich are americans too and should be free to do what they please within reason. what is wrong is socialism that diverts money from the middle-class to the poor and "favored" demographics. trickle-down from the wealthy can trickle-down to the middle-class who earn it or it can be given away to those who are already a burden on society. there is not enough money for everybody.

liberal elites love it when the unwashed masses turn their anger on the rich instead the real villains.

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by ggiilliiee
jokker ...florida =social security state ...why do you live there ...are you a pinko ?? commie ..lesbian activist ???..mutant hog waxer ...what are you ....bet ya do work for those disgusting ssi folks collecting "their" money NOT YOURS .....get it in your frikin head ...there is a frikin 2.7 trill surplus ...in ssi .wont even be any trouble till 2037 ..but your boys spent it on tax breaks for bill dummass gates ...(got rich sellin stupid fuks 3k systems that are outdated in 9 months .awesome dude ..
you vote boner head in and buddy youll get your chance to work ...rite up untill your 75 ..(a round of golf will be alot more then )...if ya make it that long ...but ya wont cause all the regs will be tossed out the door ...and youll be crab bait like the guys on the oil rig and the mines ....but then again yer in fl ..how could ya get hurt workin there ...ya dont produce anything of value ...cali oranges are much better ..thats about all yer state has .start producing something important ...then bitch .

i'm from north florida. my county is so "old south' that local elections are still dominated by conservative democrats even though it votes over 80% republicans in national elections.

north florida = lots and lots of timber and cattle. "most" of florida is nothing like miami.