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View Full Version : Lawyer slain at range ......


Deltaten
July 22, 2010, 15:21
Heard this breaking news yesterday on the radio; but waited for corroboration.....

Patriot News story here* (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/07/homicide_victim_was_avid_gun_e.html)

Earliest radio reports mentioned police seeking info on suspect/s that "may be armed and dangerous". Now, it seems the investigation is entering boondoggle heaven or the PTBs are seeking non-disclosure due to the earlier reports.

There was also an report of another criminal act committed as recently as a week ago at the same DNR/PGC range. THis is possibly the theft reported above; but the early radio release sounded a bit more dire...with no facts to check.

Needless to say....be careful out there!! Ya never know who's gonna show up while yer shooting :redface:

SPEEDGUNNER
July 22, 2010, 15:30
This is exactly why when I am shooting at the range I am also discreetly carrying at the range...and that one isn't getting shot.

Deltaten
July 22, 2010, 15:47
**conjecture hat on**

Could it have been a disgruntled client...or one of his clients antogonists? I would assume personal injury lawyers *do* make some enemies!

Could it have been some ne'er-do-well miscreant that perchance was stalking ranges looking for weapons to steal? I seem ta recall a few stories of that sort of thing happening in the past several years; but no definite documentation on it.

I guess we could always mix in the jilted lover/cuckolded hubby factor; but given his looks and marital status... deep six that idea.

I sure hope a rapid resolution is found. Not too sanguine about lawyers, per-se; but to kill a "gunny" Lawyer is heinous.

richbug
July 22, 2010, 16:22
Please explain "A list of weapons Getgen had permits for has been compiled and is being compared to what weapons are at his home. "

This is PA right? Or do they mean a list of handguns from that illegal registry the PASP has?

Stranger
July 22, 2010, 17:05
In Oklahoma we had a guy kidnapped from a public gun range during a robbery. I am always on high alert at a public range, and not just because of poor gun control.

Deltaten
July 22, 2010, 17:19
Yeah Rich...PA

Makes me wonder too??? The "list" might be comprised of all the "five copies, press hard" ya used ta hafta fill out for the PASP. Nowadays, it just gets sent to PICS ... via NICS iif'n they are linked somehow?

Apparently, the are seeking evidence that a gun is (or guns are) missing. IT;s the one good thing about that sorta registration, I suppose. SOunds like the deceased might have been the sort to have a complete list somewheres ta compare to, also.

daschnoz
July 22, 2010, 18:54
I have shot at that range many times. They have a 200yd line. There have been quite a few instances of rifles being stolen from the shooting benches at the 200 while the shooters were down range checking their targets. The parking area is only about 60 or so feet from these benches. This is however, the first time I have heard of someone being killed (or even being shot at) over possession of the gun.

I hope they find the guilty party and convict him of every possible offense they legally can.

This (stolen guns) is one of the reasons why I joined a private range. I'm not saying that this could not happen there either (they don't exactly have a fence around the whole property), but it is less likely to happen on a range where access is controlled.

82ndRecon
July 22, 2010, 20:40
This is a little weird. A friend of mine I work with just came out here on a job and we had him over for dinner. He lives in Truckee, CA but shoots at a private range out by Reno, NV. He was telling me about an older guy that was out at the skeet range there when a car load of gang bangers drove up, shot the older guy and took his shotguns, three fairly high dollar kraigoff's etc., and drove away.

Half the time I'm at the range, and mine is private, I'm packing my 1911. From now on I think it's going to be a 100% of the time I'm packing when I'm out there.

SWOHFAL
July 22, 2010, 21:21
Originally posted by Deltaten
Heard this breaking news yesterday on the radio; but waited for corroboration.....

Patriot News story here* (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/07/homicide_victim_was_avid_gun_e.html)

Earliest radio reports mentioned police seeking info on suspect/s that "may be armed and dangerous". Now, it seems the investigation is entering boondoggle heaven or the PTBs are seeking non-disclosure due to the earlier reports.

There was also an report of another criminal act committed as recently as a week ago at the same DNR/PGC range. THis is possibly the theft reported above; but the early radio release sounded a bit more dire...with no facts to check.

Needless to say....be careful out there!! Ya never know who's gonna show up while yer shooting :redface:

I'm always wary of a rip-off and being shot at any unsupervised range. I always remember that the killers in the Miami FBI shootout got weapons from people they killed while target shooting and expect that the easiest way to rob someone with a gun is to come out shooting. I always keeps some extra guns ready, especially an EBR, when shooting so that there's something fresh and loaded.

I had some guys come out of a dirt road behind a very rural public range like a bat-out-of-hell once and set up to shoot once that put me ill at ease once, but they were just going to shoot some mannequin, which was against range rules, before any DNR officer might have come around. I did stop shooting and watch them for a while because they acted suspiciously at first.

Christian
July 22, 2010, 21:46
If you are referring to the Pennsylvania State Police Application/Record of Sale form, then yes. That is what is used for the registration that they do here. Both PA and PSP were sued for having this program however the judge in the case ruled that it is not considered registration because long guns are exempt and this only applies to in state purchased handguns. It is also very interesting as to what is currently linked to the PICS system. Most people would be surprised at how much information is collected about them.

Christian

one hand clapping
July 22, 2010, 22:01
I have ALWAYS kept my 686 SW on/near my side when at a public range for that exact reason. Hell, I even keep one on me when I'm out on mine or down the road at the 300m spot. Never know when someone might think its time to take advantage. One of my two worst nightmears is either turning around after checking my target and seeing some miscreant picking up one of my rifles and aiming OR spotting said local punk and not having any rounds left.
OHC

Deltaten
July 22, 2010, 22:12
11:00 news sez that he was using his new semi-auto with silencer when he was shot multiple times and his weapon taken....
Last month's robbery was of a LMT M-4 (clone) w/ all the doo-dadds "fully auto capable" (? as captioned) with Yankee Hill suppressor. Apprising all gun dealers to keep their peepers peeled!! yeah right! Like some mope is gonna taker it to a dealer?? Pawn shop mebbe or the downtown corner.

Sounds like somebody is collecting suppressors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

martin35
July 22, 2010, 23:50
Sounds like somebody is collecting suppressors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sounds like somebody is collecting information about people with firearms.

V guy
July 23, 2010, 10:59
I have never had to worry much about the range, except vaguely, someone running off with a valuable gun while you are out there putting up targets.

Expensive shotguns have been lifted many times from the racks at big trap meets for sure, but this is totally different.

Now it may be time to be armed, while at the range.
Gun ranges are of necessity, in the boonies.

Gang bangers must have figured out that shooting the gunowner at the range is AOK. No instant check.
You just need 3-4 sidways hat wearers, and wheels.

EBR's, pistols etc just lie on the bench. Far too attractive for slime to ignore.
This idea has to grow exponentially, as it sweeps the minority community.

I guess it is time for a designated shooter guarding the guns while targets are being replaced.

The nature of the attack will be a vehicle, driving slowly----then a lightning strike for sure---- as they have to get the guard and get the guns in 20 seconds or less AND SHOOT EVERYONE THERE.

Very Mau Mau for sure. "Getting armed fo da ruv'lutrion"

flopshot
July 23, 2010, 11:21
so this place has been hit several times and there's no cameras ?
who the hell would go there alone with a rep like that ?

Dean P
July 23, 2010, 12:38
What part of the state is this in ?

If Middleton we have kinfolk at New Cumberland we visited a few weeks back.

daschnoz
July 23, 2010, 13:03
PA State Game Lands #230, Cumberland County

http://tinyurl.com/23svnde

one hand clapping
July 23, 2010, 13:19
If it starts to develope a pattern [ like two more hits ] AND depending on if the owner has "permitts " for full auto or suppressors, then its time to set some TRAPS --- get a manaquen and dress it up, fix video camera on it , and place weapons around [Of course use parts and faux items to "look like " good peices] set up a "self defense" position and wait. If the shit- heads show and try to kill your friend, the alone shooter , the fire team can then respond. won't take but two times for the ass hats to get the message.

JohnnyMac
July 23, 2010, 14:30
The Izaak Walton League chapter to which I belong, has an idiotic rule that we can't carry concealed on the chapter property! It is a rule I choose to discreetly ignore.

Now it's a members-only range and vehicle entry is controlled by an electric gate and security key-pad. However, anyone on foot can walk around the vehicle gate, and get anywhere on the property. We've had problems in the past with local teenagers sneaking onto the property to party in the middle of the night.

Back in ROTC in college, I used to assist our instructor cadre when we had live-fire training. We used to pick up the M-16's from the local NG armory, and transport them to an unused quarry that served as a rifle range. The bolt carrier groups were separate from the rifles. The first time we left the armory, one of the cadre instructed me to put the BCG's in two of the rifles. He said, "Never transport weapons without the means to defend their possession." He then had me load four magazines, two of which went in his pockets, and two of which went in mine.

I always carry a loaded pistol when transporting any of my firearms.

JMc

Douglas S Graham
July 24, 2010, 08:17
This range is about 5 miles from my house, and I have shot there quite a few times. I wouldn't let my gun on the bench if I was alone, too close to the parking lot, as mentioned. Most of the time I have been there, there have been lots of folks around shooting.

The Patriot put up a picture of the "full auto capable" AR with silencer. Asshats.
They are the most anti-gun rag out there. I canceled my subscription with them years ago because of this.

The victim was highly regarded, according to the paper, and left behind a male child that he was VERY close to. What a shame....

Scary times we live in.

gunplumber
July 24, 2010, 10:40
Freed said he was aware of Getgen's expertise with ammunition from having reviewed an application Getgen made for a suppressor, or silencer. That application requires a lengthy explanation of why the suppressor is being sought.

CLEO signoff for an NFA purchase or manufacture. "For collecting and all lawful purposes." is the canned answer. Hardly "lengthy."

lpo
July 24, 2010, 20:00
http://bushnell.com/products/trail-cameras/trophy-cam/

This is the best trail camera I've found for security purposes where you need something you can take with you to monitor your car or other property. It has about a 40' range for the motion sensor. The infrared LED's can been seen at night so it's best for daylight use unless used with other illumination. It shoots very good 1 minute videos and is fairly easy to conceal.

Bama Steve
July 24, 2010, 20:29
Area weapon.

Take it ALL out . . .

wyatt earp
July 24, 2010, 22:18
More news here: Range victim (http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/Autopsy-results-released-in-rifle-range-shooting/rJo8ianQAEGbqaaNuQJ4Kg.cspx)

rcnpthfndr
July 25, 2010, 01:01
D.S. Graham, did this happen at the public range just outside of Carlisle?

Douglas S Graham
July 25, 2010, 09:24
Yes sir. Close to town, VERY close to me. Of course, he doesn't want to come to MY house uninvited. ;) . RCN, hope you are doing well. How does that custom rifle shoot???? Best regards, Doug.

StarPD
July 27, 2010, 14:06
I never shoot anywhere, at a range or out in the desert without a loaded sidearm with me at all times, especially when checking targets. My shooting buddy Larry used to make fun of me until we watched the movie about the Miami shootout and the robbery and shooting of a target shooter alone out in the field. Ever since, Larry now carries a loaded handgun when we check targets when shooting. I laugh when he tells me: "David Soul isn't going to shoot ME!"

No one is going to shoot me when I'm checking targets either, not without getting return fire.

Randall
July 27, 2010, 15:57
He was a lawyer? Hmmm. It's a start...

daschnoz
July 31, 2010, 10:35
UPDATE!!!

Suspects in custody.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/07/prime_suspect_in_custody_in_en.html

http://www.wgal.com/news/24460221/detail.html

Hootsmon
July 31, 2010, 10:51
Amazing.

They should have a close look at the state correctional facility in Carlisle.

You just know there's something rotten going on in there.

SPEEDGUNNER
July 31, 2010, 20:00
Any idea of motive? Where these two asshats like the DC sniper? Random, or targeted shooting of lawyer? Keep us posted as there is more to the story.

Stranger
July 31, 2010, 20:21
Originally posted by SPEEDGUNNER
Any idea of motive? Where these two asshats like the DC sniper? Random, or targeted shooting of lawyer? Keep us posted as there is more to the story.

How about an officer who thought he would get some free gear by shaking down the guy with a bogus "those are illegal" claim and an attempted confiscation. Then when the lawyer resisted he wound up on the wrong end of a firearm.

Power tripping LEOs have been known to do lot of illegal things. :|

xcpd69
July 31, 2010, 21:05
Originally posted by Stranger


How about an officer who thought he would get some free gear by shaking down the guy with a bogus "those are illegal" claim and an attempted confiscation. Then when the lawyer resisted he wound up on the wrong end of a firearm.

Power tripping LEOs have been known to do lot of illegal things. :|

How about you keep your cop bashing down in the gutter where it belongs. :rolleyes:

You know, with VERY little digging one can come up with REAMS of stories about College Profesors and teachers illegal and abusive activities. Seems like weekly there is a new scandal involving a teacher or professor, either screwing students or shooting up a faculty meeting.

Blow an exam? Blow the prof.

Pissed professor? Blow away other professors..

Academia is full of corruption, it seems.

Luke6:42

Stranger
July 31, 2010, 21:34
Originally posted by xcpd69


How about you keep your cop bashing down in the gutter where it belongs. :rolleyes:



Why don't you go back to defending corrupt officers and turning a blind eye to blantant criminal activity. At least I can recognize when someone in my profession does something wrong and am willing to call them on it.

BTW, Lonny, you would do well to remember that victims of corruption will see a big difference between a corrupt instructor giving a student an ill gotten A/F versus a corrupt officer putting a person in prison for 10 years, or killing them. I thought I would bring that up as it doesn't seem like you know the difference.

xcpd69
July 31, 2010, 22:09
With no evidence at all, you up and decide that some cop killed that lawyer.

As for "defending corrupt and blatent criminal activity," I don't.

What I also don't do, which you and the others constantly do, is automaticly assume guilt and are ready to lynch without trial, any cop involved in anything.

I am just litterally sick of you and those like you, ever ready to sling a tarry brush on the entire Law Enforcement Community for the actions of a statisticly small minority of rotten apples. And when you run out of incidents, you make wild accusations like the one I jumped in about.

I'm done. No more discussion. Bash away to your hearts content.

Outlaw Patriot
July 31, 2010, 22:29
And people give me funny looks because when I'm at the range I wear my 226 on my hip, loaded with 20 rounds of gold dots, and when I walk downrange at the rifle range, my 556 is slung on my back.

Stranger
July 31, 2010, 22:29
Originally posted by xcpd69
With no evidence at all, you up and decide that some cop killed that lawyer.

As for "defending corrupt and blatent criminal activity," I don't.

What I also don't do, which you and the others constantly do, is automaticly assume guilt and are ready to lynch without trial, any cop involved in anything.

I am just litterally sick of you and those like you, ever ready to sling a tarry brush on the entire Law Enforcement Community for the actions of a statisticly small minority of rotten apples. And when you run out of incidents, you make wild accusations like the one I jumped in about.

I'm done. No more discussion. Bash away to your hearts content.

Are you stupid, covering for corrupt officers, or did you just not read the news article?

Here is the headline from the news article, "Corrections Officer Charged With Killing Lawyer."

In fact, there are TWO officers who have been charged. The other has only been charged as an accomplice for holding stolen goods. HE WAS CAUGHT WITH THE DEAD LAWYERS FIREARMS AND SUPPRESSOR. How much more guilty can the guy be? (I am sure that you, someone who loves giving LEO blowjobs, will claim the officer was likely only "holding the items for safekeeping" until he could give it to authorities.)

When an officer gets charged it is a big deal because most of us have observed the "Good Fellas" mentality that typically pervades PDs wherein officers don't get charged with anything unless the crap is really going to hit the fan if they don't.

Stranger
July 31, 2010, 22:50
Originally posted by Outlaw Patriot
And people give me funny looks because when I'm at the range I wear my 226 on my hip, loaded with 20 rounds of gold dots, and when I walk downrange at the rifle range, my 556 is slung on my back.

At the private range I am a member at there is a strict policy of "no firearms downrange". This also included CCW firearms. However, the bi-yearly changed "secret" code to open the gate is apparently widely distributed to non-members.

There was a big deal one year when a guy was carrying concealed while down range and when he got back to the line he unholstered it. Someone happened to see this and made a big stink about it at the next meeting. While the "offending member" was ultimately admonished he kept his membership (he nearly got his membership revoked after he adamantly asserted his right to carry in flowery terms to the board of directors). The president had to announce a new "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy for CCW.

Enquiring Minds
August 05, 2010, 04:26
"Only the police (and Corrections Officers) should have guns..."

Sounds like most on this board have figured out Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? i.e. your own vigilance and firepower.


INdirectly, this poor lawyer was killed by the old-womanish Bolshevik law known as NFA34, which artificially inflates the value of simple devices like suppressors into the stratosphere. Amerika, Land of the Fee, Home of the Nave.

one hand clapping
August 05, 2010, 22:45
We should bring back the public stocks for slime like this. If proven guilty, put'em in stocks on the courthouse lawn for a couple of years. with some of those " flap in the back " union suits, After folks see what happens after awhile to them [ just think- kids-eggs tomatoes,dogs ,birds ,insects, perverts ,etc - of course we wouldn't want to be inhumane so every other week the vol-firemen could come and hose em down to maintain hygene]. some of the other degenerates might crawl back into the swamp they crawled out of. or at least curtail their criminal actions.

One Hand Clapping

JohnnyReb
August 09, 2010, 14:32
Looks like the perp was collecting guns for the revolution, so he said....

http://www.salon.com/news/pennsylvania/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2010/08/09/peake_stockpiling_guns

AndyC
August 10, 2010, 02:22
Originally posted by one hand clapping
We should bring back the public stocks for slime like this. If proven guilty, put'em in stocks on the courthouse lawn for a couple of years. with some of those " flap in the back " union suits, After folks see what happens after awhile to them [ just think- kids-eggs tomatoes,dogs ,birds ,insects, perverts ,etc - of course we wouldn't want to be inhumane so every other week the vol-firemen could come and hose em down to maintain hygene]. some of the other degenerates might crawl back into the swamp they crawled out of. or at least curtail their criminal actions.

One Hand Clapping
Wow! What an excellent idea! :D :beer: