Assuming the Repubs win BIG, what will change?

[juanni]

Many here daily post the latest trite bitch fest about Obama and the Dems.

For example: How Obama bowed to some Chinese dignitary.
And they suggest that a republican victory in nov will bring about big changes.

Now is the time to make prognostications.
Assuming the repubs grab the House and possibly the Senate what BIG, SIGNIFICANT bills do you think they will go to the mat for?

By BIG and Significant I mean of the following types of what I consider urgent action.

1. Controlling the borders.
2. Taking on the illegal alien population. Serious deporting, real employer fines.
3. Drastically cutting federal spending, Defense, Domestic, whatever. No not a little trim here, nibble there.
4. Terminating ANY federal dept, like Education.
5. Tax reform, VAT, Flat tax, no tax whatever.
6. Taking on the fraud and corruption of Wall St. Money laundering for the Drug Cartel, Bribery, insider trading etc....
7. Taking on the FED, audit, abolish, PROCECUTE etc....
8. Ending the failed Drug War.
9. Ending TBTF by dismantling TOO BIG TO FAIL companies or something else that prevents the coming taxpayer disaster.
10. Repealing Health Care.


I don't think any of this issues will be the PRIORITY of a Republican controlled House or Senate. Maybe Health Care, but they know it will be vetoed, so why not.

Well Munster, Jokker and you other Obama bitchers, what do you see BIG changes to the failed status quo coming after a Repub victory?

And if you don't envision a BIG change, why bitch about Obama knowing the party you vote for really won't change much?



.............juanni

[Thorack]

juanni,

You hit the nail on the head the repubs dont want to tackle any of the below that would cost them votes too. What we need is conservatives that arent tied to a party. It wont happen any time soon, but maybe someday in the future we will have more than 2 parties.

Thorack

[d_s]

as far as what will change? is "none of the above" an option?

[newfalguy101]

Nothing, except for the letter behind the thieves names............

[leper]

there may be house or senate members to introduce something on every issue you've listed ,except the war on drugs, most will go un-noticed, some will get the media/public all worked up, in the end, as d-s noted, nothing will change.

[1gewehr]

Sorry for the cynicism, but I don't think the Republican Party has a clue. They are in it for the power, not because of ideology.

Personally, I would get rid of all but about ten Congress-critters and two Senators if I had my druthers. The rest are too much in favor of big-government solutions, vote-buying, and pork-barrel spending to be worth re-electing.

That is why it is imperative that we get people who are NOT party animals on the ticket in November. If your state primaries have not already passed you by, then this is your opportunity to get rid of the incumbents that brought us to this mess.

This is a great opportunity to accomplish TWO things;
1) Get control of the Congress away from that bunch of idiotic Marxists.
2) Show people what a REAL change is! If we get enough NEW conservatives in DC, then we CAN accomplish things!

My Top Ten things I would like to see Congress do:
1) Repeal ObamaCare entirely.
2) End ALL Federal support to corporations, charities, non-profits, etc.
3) Refuse government services to illegals, deport them when caught.
4) Pass the FairTax. (includes repeal of 16th Amendment)
5) Balanced-budget Amendment.
6) Term limits of 16 years (total - House, Senate, President, VP) in elected Federal office.
7) Amendment requiring 2/3 vote to increase spending.
8) Line-item veto.
9) Eliminate Departments of Education, Health & Human Services, Housing & Urban Development, and Labor plus ALL their programs. (Saves us $1.1 TRILLION dollars per year)
10) End the absurd 'War on Drugs'.

Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats want ANY of that!

[D P Six]

You are assuming that the US has not completely self destructed by 2012, in which case there will be no need for an election. If the country makes it that far, the Republicans will do their part and finish the job.

[d_s]

1gewehr has a pretty good list to start, But I still can't see any of it coming to fruition, for the longest time I've been trying to give the republicans the benefit of the doubt, but after the way they wrote off, marginalized and downright berated Ron Paul in the last election, and then went foward with supporting the McCain/Palin ticket, more or less was the last straw for me, they simply don't have a clue, and while I don't detest them like I absolutely HATE the progressives only because the R's don't push gun control and social programs perse, I have no hope that they will actually ever return to any sort of true fiscal coservatism, and as for the some of the social aspects they do decide to support, war on drugs, etc. just proves to me that while not as bad as the progressives in degree, they are more or less the same in type. So my support personally would go to anyone thats fiscally conservative and socially liberal, if Ron Paul would be so good as to run again in 2012, he would definitely have my vote this time around as well.

[308bolt]

Unless we get conservatives in office regardless of party affiliation, it's going to be the same shit with slightly different rhetoric.

[MtnWulf]

I don't expect any change in existing programs at all. Anyone who is hoping for the Republicans to develop a spine is sadly mistaken.

They MAY stop new legislation, but I'm not hopeful about that.

[garandguy10]

Nothing really changes, Republicans are masters of throwing away opportunities through bipartisanship, reaching across the isle etc.

All of Obama's new laws will stay in effect. The only possible thing that could happen is that Obama's next SCOTUS appointment will not be an ugly dyke, but he/she will be a raving communist.

[Mattrico]

What will change? What are you drinking??

Pretty much nothing. "...Meet the new boss, same as the old boss..." as the Stones so rightly sang.

Career polishittins are career polishittins, regardless of the letter they run under. They look after themselves first, last, and always, and to hell with the peasants who elected them.

[55bird]

The Who,not Stones,Petey Pervert Townsend,sung and played that stuff.
If we allow the current parties to control the candidates without new blood nothing will change.
New candidates in both parties is the only hope.

[StG58Freak]

Unfortunately you will not change a thing voting, it's beyond that and the problem is they know it but the People have not realized it or refuse to acknowledge it. The Founding Fathers would kick us all in the groin for not doing anything but bitching about the mess we're in.
Just my two cents, which isn't worth much these days

[martin35]

Well that's it then we can't live our lives as we have done for these many years, excepting that theory is tantamount to accepting the defeat of Democracy that Obama has set about doing.
1. Controlling the borders.
2. Taking on the illegal alien population. Serious deporting, real employer fines.
3. Drastically cutting federal spending, Defense, Domestic, whatever. No not a little trim here, nibble there.
4. Terminating ANY federal dept, like Education.
5. Tax reform, VAT, Flat tax, no tax whatever.
6. Taking on the fraud and corruption of Wall St. Money laundering for the Drug Cartel, Bribery, insider trading etc....
7. Taking on the FED, audit, abolish, PROCECUTE etc....
8. Ending the failed Drug War.
9. Ending TBTF by dismantling TOO BIG TO FAIL companies or something else that prevents the coming taxpayer disaster.
10. Repealing Health Care.
Without the revision of these destructive laws and practises we will have failed the greatest country to ever be formed on Earth.
A line is now being drawn that will cause some to act with great prejudice to the detriment of many who won't act or will act with the wrong self serving motives,
Some things listed were never meant to be fully implemented as promised but to trigger a socialist default agenda, the events of this next election will probably have a default reaction throughout this nation.
The present government is not too big to fail.

[gman]

Every time the Repubs win big they step on their dicks and fall all over themselves being nice to the communists who think they are stupid...and they are.

[martin35]

We are faced with a regime of immoderate politics and the time for moderation has passed.

[Topbanana]

LOL, ppl thinl things will change... :D :D :D

Patriot act... Wouldn't veto an "assault weapons" ban... Endless wars on concepts (drugs, poverty, terror)... Continued ignorance of the U.S. Constitution...

[Ricketts]

They are gonna trot out McCain again as their candidate.

Insanity.

Dipshits.

[d_s]

They are gonna trot out McCain again as their candidate.

Oh man, if they do, I'll literally fall out of my chair laughing, you'd think that nah, no one could be that stupid and detached from reality to try that nonsense again, but then again!!!

[Blackmore]

Originally posted by Ricketts
They are gonna trot out McCain again as their candidate.

Insanity.

Dipshits.

Did you see him the other day speaking from Iraq? Maybe he has just tired, but man, he looked like a feeble OLD guy in his 70's and none too healthy.

What a crappy choice we had two years ago! :uhoh:

[mitchellh]

Originally posted by juanni
Assuming the Repubs win BIG, what will change?

Nothing will change!


Originally posted by Ricketts
They are gonna trot out McCain again as their candidate.

Insanity.

Dipshits.


McCain and all career politician's are the problem.

[TheJokker]

it all depends upon the numbers.

if the democrats retain control of either house or if enough remain in sufficient numbers to block and obstruct than very little may change other than to put the brakes on the liberal agenda.


My Top Ten things I would like to see Congress do:
1) Repeal ObamaCare entirely.
2) End ALL Federal support to corporations, charities, non-profits, etc.
3) Refuse government services to illegal’s, deport them when caught.
4) Pass the FairTax. (includes repeal of 16th Amendment)
5) Balanced-budget Amendment.
6) Term limits of 16 years (total - House, Senate, President, VP) in elected Federal office.
7) Amendment requiring 2/3 vote to increase spending.
8) Line-item veto.
9) Eliminate Departments of Education, Health & Human Services, Housing & Urban Development, and Labor plus ALL their programs. (Saves us $1.1 TRILLION dollars per year)
10) End the absurd 'War on Drugs'.

i don't think there will be the numbers to repeal obamacare but there may be enough to defund it until 2012 when it can be repealed. i like most of the items on the list although while in principle i like a balance budget there have been times in our history when such an amendment would have been the handcuffs of death i.e. world war 2. add the EPA (10-11 billion) to #9. a line item veto might be unconstitutional and i think the fair tax might be great.

liberals "must" be eliminated from power before any of these things can really be accomplished.

[wileycsg]

Originally posted by TheJokker
it all depends upon the numbers.

if the democrats retain control of either house or if enough remain in sufficient numbers to block and obstruct than very little may change other than to put the brakes on the liberal agenda.



i don't think there will be the numbers to repeal obamacare but there may be enough to defund it until 2012 when it can be repealed. i like most of the items on the list although while in principle i like a balance budget there have been times in our history when such an amendment would have been the handcuffs of death i.e. world war 2. add the EPA (10-11 billion) to #9. a line item veto might be unconstitutional and i think the fair tax might be great.

liberals "must" be eliminated from power before any of these things can really be accomplished.

Oh, if only the republicans held both parts of congress and the Presidency! I know you're not very up on this politics thing but from 2000-2006 they did. Now tell us what wonderful legislation they passed. No, it was all blocked by the democrats? Then tell us what great things that proposed but couldn't get passed. Did the evil liberals force them to take a surplus and turn it into huge deficits? Go crazy with earmarks? Infringe on our rights? Turn the banks into casinos? How many bad budgets did Bush veto?

Maybe some day you'll grow up and see that you're not supporting the lessor of two evils. They're just a different shape of evil.

[308bolt]

Originally posted by wileycsg

Maybe some day you'll grow up and see that you're not supporting the lessor of two evils. They're just a different shape of evil.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/icons/icon14.gif http://www.falfiles.com/forums/icons/icon14.gif

[357ross]

If you are wondering what will happen, the march to hell will slow down a little, as far as I can tell. I think the problem is deeper than just politicians of either party.

[Gary Harwell]

The Dems are acknowledging they will be lame duck in November, but the bastards will inflict all they can before the new guys take their place. and I agree with Juanni, there will be no real change.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704293604575343262629361470.html?m od=WSJ_Op

By JOHN FUND

Democratic House members are so worried about the fall elections they're leaving Washington on July 30, a full week earlier than normal—and they won't return until mid-September. Members gulped when National Journal's Charlie Cook, the Beltway's leading political handicapper, predicted last month "the House is gone," meaning a GOP takeover. He thinks Democrats will hold the Senate, but with a significantly reduced majority.

The rush to recess gives Democrats little time to pass any major laws. That's why there have been signs in recent weeks that party leaders are planning an ambitious, lame-duck session to muscle through bills in December they don't want to defend before November. Retiring or defeated members of Congress would then be able to vote for sweeping legislation without any fear of voter retaliation.

View Full Image
fund
Associated Press

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi
fund
fund

"I've got lots of things I want to do" in a lame duck, Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D., W. Va.) told reporters in mid June. North Dakota's Kent Conrad, chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, wants a lame-duck session to act on the recommendations of President Obama's deficit commission, which is due to report on Dec. 1. "It could be a huge deal," he told Roll Call last month. "We could get the country on a sound long-term fiscal path." By which he undoubtedly means new taxes in exchange for extending some, but not all, of the Bush-era tax reductions that will expire at the end of the year.

In the House, Arizona Rep. Raul Grijalva, co-chairman of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, told reporters last month that for bills like "card check"—the measure to curb secret-ballot union elections—"the lame duck would be the last chance, quite honestly, for the foreseeable future."
Related Reading

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* Obama: Full Campaign Mode
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* U.S. Challenges Immigration Law
* Foes Face Uphill Battle to Oust Steele
* Democrats' Peril GOP's Challenge

Iowa Sen. Tom Harkin, chair of the Senate committee overseeing labor issues, told the Bill Press radio show in June that "to those who think [card check] is dead, I say think again." He told Mr. Press "we're still trying to maneuver" a way to pass some parts of the bill before the next Congress is sworn in.

Other lame-duck possibilities? Senate ratification of the New Start nuclear treaty, a federally mandated universal voter registration system to override state laws, and a budget resolution to lock in increased agency spending.

Then there is pork. A Senate aide told me that "some of the biggest porkers on both sides of the aisle are leaving office this year, and a lame-duck session would be their last hurrah for spending." Likely suspects include key members of the Senate Appropriations Committee, Congress's "favor factory," such as Pennsylvania Democrat Arlen Specter and Utah Republican Bob Bennett.

Conservative groups such as FreedomWorks are alarmed at the potential damage, and they are demanding that everyone in Congress pledge not to take up substantive legislation in a post-election session. "Members of Congress are supposed to represent their constituents, not override them like sore losers in a lame-duck session," Rep. Tom Price, head of the Republican Study Committee, told me.

It's been almost 30 years since anything remotely contentious was handled in a lame-duck session, but that doesn't faze Democrats who have jammed through ObamaCare and are determined to bring the financial system under greater federal control.

Mike Allen of Politico.com reports one reason President Obama failed to mention climate change legislation during his recent, Oval Office speech on the Gulf oil spill was that he wants to pass a modest energy bill this summer, then add carbon taxes or regulations in a conference committee with the House, most likely during a lame-duck session. The result would be a climate bill vastly more ambitious, and costly for American consumers and taxpayers, than moderate "Blue Dogs" in the House would support on the campaign trail. "We have a lot of wiggle room in conference," a House Democratic aide told the trade publication Environment & Energy Daily last month.

Many Democrats insist there will be no dramatic lame-duck agenda. But a few months ago they also insisted the extraordinary maneuvers used to pass health care wouldn't be used. Desperate times may be seen as calling for desperate measures, and this November the election results may well make Democrats desperate.

Mr. Fund is a columnist for WSJ.com.

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[cowbilly]

We can fuss all we want to. The only way to change things is to vote Republican in November whether you like them or not. That is the only choice we have and it would not take much to improve the situation we are in right now.

Health care would have a good chance to get repealed if they take the House and Senate.

The only way to end the drug war is to stop enforcement, that is not a good idea nor will it happen.

They most likely will try to reduce taxes, that is always a winner and would be a wise move as taxes are sky rocketing for us all come 01 January 2010.

Cuts would be good for most all federal programs. Feds need not be involved with Education, that is a state thing. Some programs will be cut, not near enough, but some.

The big question is will they have enough votes to over-turn a presidiential veto? Probably not, but they will have to in order to cut taxes and repeal health care.

[Gary Harwell]

Can anyone name any major expenditure /program that has been canceled, removed, or disappeared in the last 20 years? .Gov only gets bigger, never smaller.

[V guy]

Maybe it is my imagination, but the silence out there by ALL the candidates and the tea party, is quite a contrast from last summers town hall meetings.

Quiet quiet quiet.

What is going on?
What am I missing?

[juanni]

OK, basically no one currently in this thread thinks there will be any BIG significant changes pursued by a repub House and/or Senate on the issues that the majority of americans support, and especially their base. :uhoh:

Jokker's expectations for his vote are a bit of foot dragging against the always vague and evil "liberal agenda", but nothing else.

And cowbilly, I guess predicts an attempted repeal of HC and tax cuts?? for his vote for "change".

Originally posted by cowbilly
We can fuss all we want to. The only way to change things is to vote Republican in November whether you like them or not. That is the only choice we have and it would not take much to improve the situation we are in right now.

They most likely will try to reduce taxes, that is always a winner and would be a wise move as taxes are sky rocketing for us all come 01 January 2010.


cowbilly, you must be insane, a govt employee or both. :tongue:
You can't have BIG Govt, BIG Defense spending and BIG Domestic spending and low taxes, because taxes are "sky rocketing" and cutting taxes "is always a winner".
Cutting revenue WITHOUT cutting spending only adds more to the deficit and our eventual default.
Yes, we know cuts would be "good", but I am talking about ACTUALLY cutting, Hack, Hack, Hacking not wishful thinking or politicians whispering warm and fuzzy words into your ear that make you coo. Only to do nothing.

The topic I posted is about PREDICTIONS of the repubs implementing or aggressively trying to implement the BIG structural changes needed and that not doing so will only continue to destroy american's standard of living, economy and freedoms.

So cowbilly, again what SPECFIC changes do you think victorious repubs will aggressively push, say in the first year, even if it will mean a veto, or never making it through the senate?


.............juanni

[cowbilly]

There have been several military programs cancelled or severely reduced. F22, F35, the Army's SP artillery system and land warrior system just to name a few. The problem is the money gets pulled from a legitimate research project/need to some other artsy social project.

[juanni]

Originally posted by cowbilly
There have been several military programs cancelled or severely reduced. F22, F35, the Army's SP artillery system and land warrior system just to name a few. The problem is the money gets pulled from a legitimate research project/need to some other artsy social project.

Really?
If those cuts hadn't been shifted to "artsy social projects" what BIG percentage of Federal spending would have been reduced?
Think BIG cowbilly, think BIG.
The country is in BIG trouble, teeny tiny little changes, won't add up to anything of significance.

And cutting or cancelling some future program that you never had the money for in the 1st place, and never would have had the money for, isn't the same as cutting spending HERE and NOW. :wink:



...............juanni

[garandguy10]

Originally posted by Ricketts
They are gonna trot out McCain again as their candidate.

Insanity.

Dipshits.

Not McCain, but Romney from Mass. Just a younger, more anti gun version of McCain.

[L Haney]

I would wager the deck officer of the Titanic ordered a "huge change" in the position of the rudder when the obstruction was sighted ahead. It made no difference in the outcome or the timing. We won't have any big changes effected here either. I don't care who is in charge.

[def90]

Change will never happen from either the Repubs or the Dems.. Neither side really has anything to gain by cleaning up the system and creating real fixes or solving the issues.

[bakerjw]

Nothing will change. Hence my saying that we can't vote our way out of this mess.

[littlehoot]

Originally posted by TheJokker
it all depends upon the numbers.

if the democrats retain control of either house or if enough remain in sufficient numbers to block and obstruct than very little may change other than to put the brakes on the liberal agenda.



i don't think there will be the numbers to repeal obamacare but there may be enough to defund it until 2012 when it can be repealed. i like most of the items on the list although while in principle i like a balance budget there have been times in our history when such an amendment would have been the handcuffs of death i.e. world war 2. add the EPA (10-11 billion) to #9. a line item veto might be unconstitutional and i think the fair tax might be great.

liberals "must" be eliminated from power before any of these things can really be accomplished.

none of the above is ever going to happen, too much of the populace thinks that its our responsibility to do so. IMO 30-40% of Americans are on the dole, with another 15-25% thinking that we should tax anybody with any thing more than what they have to pay for the same, its for the chir'ren, after all...

the best we can hope for is enough people get scared of the debt to pass a balanced budget amendment. if we are REALLY lucky, an amendment requiring congress/ white house to have to suffer the same stuff they push on us

[martin35]

I find this thread thought provoking,,, I spent 15 minutes composing a reply, but it turned into a self serving whine, so I will restart my thought processes.

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by juanni
...what do you see BIG changes to the failed status quo coming after a Repub victory?

And if you don't envision a BIG change, why bitch about Obama knowing the party you vote for really won't change much?

.............juanni

if you agree that change is needed and if you agree that the federal government must be reduced in size and scope than you must have a plan for doing so that is realistic and obtainable.

change is not going to happen in a single election cycle and you will not find support for change in the democratic party. there are fiscal conservatives within the republican party and there is growing support within the american people for reducing the size of government. global economic turbulence is forcing a great time of change.

the big change i see is the emergence of leaders with a plan i.e. paul ryan of wisconsin. there are several governors who are having success increasing employment and reducing spending in their states. as 1gewehr has pointed out over a trillion dollars can be saved by eliminating non-essential federal agencies and programs and that is not even considering a phase out of entitlement programs.

i believe what has become broken can be repaired but it will take patience and a long term commitment.

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by wileycsg


Oh, if only the republicans held both parts of congress and the Presidency! I know you're not very up on this politics thing but from 2000-2006 they did. Now tell us what wonderful legislation they passed. No, it was all blocked by the democrats? Then tell us what great things that proposed but couldn't get passed. Did the evil liberals force them to take a surplus and turn it into huge deficits? Go crazy with earmarks? Infringe on our rights? Turn the banks into casinos? How many bad budgets did Bush veto?

Maybe some day you'll grow up and see that you're not supporting the lessor of two evils. They're just a different shape of evil.

you are an idiot liberal...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fannie_Mae

On September 10, 2003, the Bush Administration recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis. Under the plan, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae. The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set capital-reserve requirements for the company and to determine whether the company is adequately managing the risks of its portfolios. The New York Times reported that the plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is broken. The Times also reported Democratic opposition to Bush's plan: "These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis," said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing." Congress, controlled by Republicans during this period, did not introduce any legislation aimed at bringing this proposal into law until the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, which did not proceed out of committee to the Senate.

...

On January 26, 2005, the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 (S.190) was first introduced in the Senate by Sen. Chuck Hagel. The Senate legislation was an effort to reform the existing GSE regulatory structure in light of the recent accounting problems and questionable management actions leading to considerable income restatements by the GSE's. After being reported favorably by the Senate's Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs in July 2005, the bill was never considered by the full Senate for a vote. Sen. John McCain's decision to become a cosponsor of S.190 almost a year later in 2006 was the last action taken regarding Sen. Hagel's bill in spite of developments since clearing the Senate Committee. Sen. McCain pointed out that Fannie Mae's regulator reported that profits were "illusions deliberately and systematically created by the company's senior management" in his floor statement giving support to S.190

democratic obstruction that cost the country over a trillion dollars. i bet you voted for barney franks...

[wileycsg]

" Congress, controlled by Republicans during this period, did not introduce any legislation aimed at bringing this proposal into law until the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, which did not proceed out of committee to the Senate."

Hey nitwit, you're supposed to give facts that support your argument, not mine.

Oh, I almost forgot. Want to talk about the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act of 2003 and how it was passed? Bet you don't. :wink:

BTW it seems that there's an awful lot of liberals on the board by your standard of having to blindly support the GOP or else you're a liberal.

[davedude]

And if you don't envision a BIG change, why bitch about Obama knowing the party you vote for really won't change much?


Speaking of bitching about obama, and I am glad you brought that up juanni :

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/07/the_dumbest_presidentever.html

Looks like anyone other than the current bozos would be an improvement, there is no way to get worse than obama and the current democratic controlled congress.

Dave Dude

[juanni]

Originally posted by wileycsg
" Congress, controlled by Republicans during this period, did not introduce any legislation aimed at bringing this proposal into law until the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, which did not proceed out of committee to the Senate."

Hey nitwit, you're supposed to give facts that support your argument, not mine.


:bow: :bow: :bow:

Jokker is so blinded by his republican loyalty, that even in black and white and by his own hand he refuses to see it. :sad:



...........juanni

[d_s]

there is no way to get worse than obama

Those are nearly the exact same feelings I heard so many people utter about Bush before obamatron got elected, only upside is that I got to say "I told you so, it got worse" until I was blue in the face :)

[raexcct2]

Nothing will change. The Republicans are the same horse dung (as the Dems) with a different letter by their name.

All about power and staying in power. If they reverse all the Democratic policies, they just worked themselves out of a job.

With idiots like Manchurian candidate, wannabe Democrat Steele in charge of the RNC, the Democrats are laughing at the American people and the upcoming midterms.

[coov1]

Just think what will happen if they don't win. Nancy, Barb, and Chucky will have a field with gun owners.

[martin35]

Each of us has a list we would like implemented, the pendulum of public opinion is moving in a opposite direction, if there will be a majority as effective in repairing the country as the one that sought to destroy it will have to be seen.
One advantage Conservatism has is a weakened Media that won't be able to sway public opinion as effectively as the Internet has done with the babel of the masses.

[davedude]

Just think what will happen if they don't win. Nancy, Barb, and Chucky will have a field with gun owners.

+1



democrats, knowing their opportunity to change America into a socialist police state is about to disappear are gearing up to ram thru all the shit the american people told them they do not want in a lame duck session after the elections. Be interesting to see how many rino's vote with them to implement cap and trade, card check, New Start nuclear treaty, a federally mandated universal voter registration system to override state laws, and a budget resolution to lock in increased agency spending among other socialist criminal money grabbin shit. obama plans to pass cap and trade in some kind of bullshit "committee" manuver during the lame duck.
If the 25 million non-voting asshat gun owners got off their lazy motherf**kin butts and voted at the house back to republican control, obama will be impeached and all the socialist crimes will be defunded until they can be repealed. Non-voting birdbrains f*ck themselves and everyone else and are to blame for allowing the current crop of criminals on both sides remaining in power.
Get off your butts and vote all the bastards out.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704293604575343262629361470.html?m od=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop#articleTabs%3Darticle


Dave Dude

[martin35]

democrats, knowing their opportunity to change America into a socialist police state is about to disappear Make that the socialist police state of insurrection and noisy chaos,,, a "duck you sucker holiday".

[abeljake]

We can not expect the Federal Government to solve any of these problems the Federal government has created. Both parties are complicit in our demise. To think that voting in R's in november will suddenly turn things around is foolish. This power grab by the federal government has been going on since the constitution was ratified, but has sped up since Wilson. The only answer and our only hope lies in the states. Here in Virginia we are working through the grass roots organizations to promote and elect state officials who understand the original intent of the constitution and that the true power was supposed to, and still does lie with the individual states. Read Tom Woods new book "Nullification" for a great explanation. it is our only hope, but will require some uncomfortableness for many people. are you truly ready to live without the safety net of the federal government? are you prepared when they drop the hammer on the first state that dares to stand up to them?

[juanni]

Originally posted by coov1
Just think what will happen if they don't win. Nancy, Barb, and Chucky will have a field with gun owners.

Like they are now?

Apparently all you ask of YOUR representive is they they oppose more gun regulation in exchange for YOUR vote and Your approval to do whatever they want otherwise.

Don't think they haven't considered the very small price of YOUR vote and their unlimited ability to profit from it.


................juanni

[Chalk_2]

Simple, the "Progressive Movement". Any thing but them....:beer:

[skwang]

Slightly optimistic, Gengriche's "pact with America" or what ever it is happened during the dark days of Clinton. Not saying the conservative types will make huge in roads but some of the most egregious stuff may get mitigated. Ok so I am not that optimistic as one step forward two steps back still gets us nowhere.

There is a difference between the D and R unfortunately the differences get washed a bit as they make their way to politics on the national level.

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by wileycsg
" Congress, controlled by Republicans during this period, did not introduce any legislation aimed at bringing this proposal into law until the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, which did not proceed out of committee to the Senate."

Hey nitwit, you're supposed to give facts that support your argument, not mine.

Oh, I almost forgot. Want to talk about the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act of 2003 and how it was passed? Bet you don't. :wink:

BTW it seems that there's an awful lot of liberals on the board by your standard of having to blindly support the GOP or else you're a liberal.

uhh... congress was not "controlled" by the republicans during this period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/107th_United_States_Congress

June 6, 2001: Senator Jim Jeffords, previously a Republican, declared himself an independent and announced he would vote with the Democrats, giving Democrats control in the Senate with a one-seat advantage. Democrat Tom Daschle became Senate Majority Leader.

don't try and pretend you are not a liberal. people who supported john kerry in 2004 are not conservatives.

[wileycsg]

Originally posted by TheJokker


uhh... congress was not "controlled" by the republicans during this period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/107th_United_States_Congress



don't try and pretend you are not a liberal. people who supported john kerry in 2004 are not conservatives.

Uhh.... you're talking about the 107th congress which was 2000-2002 for something that was proposed in 2003. :rolleyes: Republicans did control both parts of the 108th and 109th congresses which covered 2002-2006. I'm not going to piddle back and forth with you on this one insignificant matter and hijack the thread. You can point out some of the many other good things that the repubs did when they had control.

See, there's the difference between us. You make up crap (I didn't vote for Kerry). I merely point out that people who voted for Bush aren't conservatives either.

[raexcct2]

Some of us who voted for Bush voted for the lesser of two evils. It doesn't mean that we are not conservative; only that the choices both parties offered SUCKED.

[cowbilly]

If they (Ds and Rs) are both exactly the same, then why bother voting. You will have to pick one if you vote. The republican ticket is the only way to go no matter what we fuss about.

Turn the house and senate R. Then turn the R into constitutionalist's at the state level on up. It will take several election cycles but barring armed revolution, that is the only way to do it.

Big, huge cuts will not happen. You'll get 300 million here, 1 or 2 billion there but no massive cuts. We have allowed the federal government to get too big, massive cuts would destroy us, it has to be a precise racheting down back to the private sector. It is bad now but let's try to prevent a calamity.

We still have a chance to stop the bleeding and become that nation that God preserved for us. This is not a depression yet, talk to those who were around in the late 20s and 30s.

[Bawana jim]

I doubt the election will be fair or legal.

When Joseph Stalin said, "The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The People who count the votes decide everything," he pointed the way for the Democrat takeover of our electoral process!

No way they will let us vote them out, that is why they seem so smug and confident when they screw us. They know the fix is in.

jim

[davedude]

+1 cowbilly!

IMHO---- brainwashed by socialists to believe their one vote won't mean anything, conservatives by the millions sit home and allow a minority of crooks to rape them in the ass.

It's beyond stupid to not vote.

There are soooooo many unregistered conservatives out there, millions and millions. Those millions of potential conservative votes could wash away the stain of socialism and corruption in a goddamn landslide the likes of which have never been seen. Your one vote is extremely powerful, contrary to the "my vote won't count" propaganda that conservatives have been successfully programed to believe by leftist criminals and other crooks, both D and R.

Look at the crime that has been committed against the American people by the criminals infesting government, and you still will not vote them out? Gonna stand there like a dumbass and be raped in the ass and not do anything about it?

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogjuly10/con-of-decade07-10.html

The Con of the Decade Part I (July 8, 2010)

The con of the decade (Part I) involves the transfer of private debt to the public (the marks), who then pays interest forever to the con artists.

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogjuly10/con-of-decade-pt2-07-10.html

The Con of the Decade Part II (July 9, 2010)

The con of the decade (Part II) involves sheltering the Power Elites' income while raising taxes on the debt-serfs to pay the interest owed the Power Elites.


Vote all the bastards out in 2010. Then----- prosecute them and put them in jail.

Dave Dude

[juanni]

Originally posted by davedude


Look at the crime that has been committed against the American people by the criminals infesting government, and you still will not vote them out? Gonna stand there like a dumbass and be raped in the ass and not do anything about it?

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogjuly10/con-of-decade07-10.html

The Con of the Decade Part I (July 8, 2010)

The con of the decade (Part I) involves the transfer of private debt to the public (the marks), who then pays interest forever to the con artists.

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogjuly10/con-of-decade-pt2-07-10.html

The Con of the Decade Part II (July 9, 2010)

The con of the decade (Part II) involves sheltering the Power Elites' income while raising taxes on the debt-serfs to pay the interest owed the Power Elites.


Vote all the bastards out in 2010. Then----- prosecute them and put them in jail.

Dave Dude

You know Dave I was going to post that article, Thanks! :whiskey:

But that is the point of this topic starter, the middle class is being destroyed and the country looted by BOTH parties. There is no time left for continuing the status quo and CONTINUING to elect representatives that DON'T represent the american people.

Yet virtually everyone who has responded in this thread, EXPECTS the repubs if elected the majority in the House and or Senate will not represent their interests.
WTF????

We do not have decades to change course RADICALLY.

So why vote for the CONTINUATION of the corruption and looting?

Voters should be searching out TRUE conservative candidates and supporting them with money and sweat in the primaries and not waiting until November to choose a continuation of the corruption between the least of two evils.

Voting for a R solely because he is slightly better than a D isn't good enough to prevent the collapse.
And if someone is too LAZY or UNMOTIVATED to get out there and get solid conservative candidates and then thinks that since no more gun control has been enacted that they can always pick up their gun and demand change, BULLS**T.

Having the right to own a gun and the right to overthrow a corrupt govt is USELESS to a LAZY citizenry that let its country be looted, supported it vote after vote.




................juanni

[martin35]

The realization that the cupboard is bare or so depleted it can so longer suffice to serve all the mandated needs of the programs we a have allowed by our nonvoting acquiescence will at some point be brought home to even the most disinterested Americans. Destitution was a great and painful incentive in the 1930's to become involved.
The question is in what manner will the uncommitted choose to be involved? Creeping socialism seems the trend.
Every Democratic choice since Truman has been a revolting development to me and the Republicans barely tolerable including the affable Reagan and Ike, I am not inclined to make of them more than they were..

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by wileycsg


Uhh.... you're talking about the 107th congress which was 2000-2002 for something that was proposed in 2003. :rolleyes: Republicans did control both parts of the 108th and 109th congresses which covered 2002-2006. I'm not going to piddle back and forth with you on this one insignificant matter and hijack the thread. You can point out some of the many other good things that the repubs did when they had control.

See, there's the difference between us. You make up crap (I didn't vote for Kerry). I merely point out that people who voted for Bush aren't conservatives either.

making up crap: particpating in bush/kerry debates arguing aganst bush and now claiming you were not a kerry supporter. right now you are arguing aganst the republicans...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_party_controlled_the_US_congress_in_2003

House: 229 Republicans, 204 Democrats, 1 Independent
Senate: 51 Republicans, 48 Democrats, 1 "Other Party"


1) during the first two years of the bush presidency the republicans did not control congress
2) during the third and forth years of the bush presidency the republicans maintained weak control of congress to the extent that your state representative was about to block reform which in retrospect may have prevented a recession from turning into a depression.
3) democratic leadership failed us then and it is failing us now.

there are two choices: stop obama and the democrats or continue with their policies. as is your custom: you oppose those who oppose obama ergo you support obama.

we can observe the rise of the tea party movement and conclude that the political power of fiscal conservatives is on the rise within the republican party. by supporting the republicans we increase the probability that fiscal conservatism will provide the solutions to the problems we are facing. these are critical times and a commitment must be made one way or the other.

right now i'm thinking once again there may be hope for juanni. i suspect he's starting to think he may have underestimated the damage the democrats could do. i don't think you are ever going to take down the shine to teddy kennedy you have in your garage...

[wileycsg]

Originally posted by TheJokker


making up crap: particpating in bush/kerry debates arguing aganst bush and now claiming you were not a kerry supporter. right now you are arguing aganst the republicans...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_party_controlled_the_US_congress_in_2003



1) during the first two years of the bush presidency the republicans did not control congress
2) during the third and forth years of the bush presidency the republicans maintained weak control of congress to the extent that your state representative was about to block reform which in retrospect may have prevented a recession from turning into a depression.
3) democratic leadership failed us then and it is failing us now.

there are two choices: stop obama and the democrats or continue with their policies. as is your custom: you oppose those who oppose obama ergo you support obama.

we can observe the rise of the tea party movement and conclude that the political power of fiscal conservatives is on the rise within the republican party. by supporting the republicans we increase the probability that fiscal conservatism will provide the solutions to the problems we are facing. these are critical times and a commitment must be made one way or the other.

right now i'm thinking once again there may be hope for juanni. i suspect he's starting to think he may have underestimated the damage the democrats could do. i don't think you are ever going to take down the shine to teddy kennedy you have in your garage...

You know, I blame myself. Every disagreement with the fool always ends up with him posting so much misinformation, faulty logic and outright lies that I can only shake my head, rather than try to spend alot of my time trying to explain things to a fool who is too thick and pigheaded to comprehend. Why did I think this time was going to end up different? Yes, fool, you're right. Anyone who doesn't think that Bush was perfect or the GOP is always beyond question is a communist.

For anyone else with half a brain, the question still stands. What good legislation did republicans pass?

[martin35]

There is no "good" legislation. My state legislature meets biannually and that's too often.

[wileycsg]

Originally posted by martin35
There is no "good" legislation. My state legislature meets biannually and that's too often.

I'll agree with you there. Right now we're heading to the best we can hope for; gridlock.

[chrsdwns]

The Democrats and Republicans are not the same.

There are alot of bad Republicans who need to go but there are absolutely NO good Democrats around anymore.

Republicans have tried to slow down the Democrat agenda on entitlements and socialistic policies which has been their only viable option given how badly the media has been in the tank for the Democrats.

Amercans have been falling for the Democrat Agenda shilled by our media but reality has finally caught up with the lie that we can all get a free ride to a free lunch.

There are now too many eaters and not enough cooks to go around.

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by wileycsg


For anyone else with half a brain, the question still stands. What good legislation did republicans pass?

the liberals with half a brain have already left; what's keeping you here?

your question was answered: financial reform to control the housing bubble was attempted but was blocked by liberals and lead by "your" state representative. in retrospect that was certainly the most important legislation of the past decade. bush and the republicans are not perfect but most here recognize that the alternative is much, much, much worse.

you have a long history here attacking the conservative agenda or defending the liberal position yet you deny being a liberal. how is that not being fundamentally dishonest? if you are not a liberal how about demonstrating a couple examples of conservative behavior?

obama is teaching America that anti-conservative liberals such as yourself are the problem and not the solution.

[Gary Harwell]

This is from Mort Zuckerman, a smart man who supported Obama, and even smarter one who is now smearing him. He is one of the wealthiest self made men in America. This is another excellent summary of our predicament, and their is nothing BJ can do to this man. BJ's fat a** wife is calling for more from the black community. They are getting desperate. This is a good read, nothing new to us here but nice having another orator call out the messiah.I am going to start a new thread so bear with me, it is just appropriate to this thread.

http://politics.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerman/articles/2010/07/02/mort-zuckerman-obama-is-barely-treading-water.html?PageNr=2



Mort Zuckerman: Obama Is Barely Treading Water
The president's problem is simple: the economy and jobs
By MORTIMER B. ZUCKERMAN
Posted: July 2, 2010
Print



The hope that fired up the election of Barack Obama has flickered out, leaving a national mood of despair and disappointment. Americans are dispirited over how wrong things are and uncertain they can be made right again. Hope may have been a quick breakfast, but it has proved a poor supper. A year and a half ago Obama was walking on water. Today he is barely treading water. Then, his soaring rhetoric enraptured the nation. Today, his speeches cannot lift him past a 45 percent approval rating.


There is a widespread feeling that the government doesn't work, that it is incapable of solving America's problems. Americans are fed up with Washington, fed up with Wall Street, fed up with the necessary but ill-conceived stimulus program, fed up with the misdirected healthcare program, and with pretty much everything else. They are outraged and feel that the system is not a level playing field, but is tilted against them. The millions of unemployed feel abandoned by the president, by the Democratic Congress, and by the Republicans.

The American people wanted change, and who could blame them? But now there is no change they can believe in. Sixty-two percent believe we are headed in the wrong direction —a record during this administration. All the polls indicate that anti-Washington, anti-incumbent sentiment is greater than it has been in many years. For the first time, Obama's disapproval rating has topped his approval rating. In a recent CBS News poll, there is a meager 15 percent approval rating for Congress. In all polls, voters who call themselves independents have swung against the administration and against incumbents.

Even some in Obama's base have turned, with 17 percent of Democrats disapproving of his job performance. Even more telling is the excitement gap. Only 44 percent of those who voted for him express high interest in this year's elections. That's a 38-point drop from 2008. By contrast, 71 percent of those who voted Republican last time express high interest in the midterm elections, above the level at this stage in 2008. And these are the people who vote.

Republicans are benefiting not because they have a credible or popular program—they don't—but because they are not Democrats. In a recent Wall Street Journal/NBC poll, nearly two thirds of those who favor Republican control of Congress say they are motivated primarily by opposition to Obama and Democratic policy. Disapproval of Congress is so widespread, a recent Gallup poll suggests, that by a margin of almost two to one, Americans would rather vote for a candidate with no experience than for an incumbent. Throw the bums out is the mood. How could this have happened so quickly?

The fundamental problem is starkly simple: jobs and the deepening fear among the public that the American dream is vanishing before their eyes. The economy's erratic improvement has helped Wall Street but has brought little support to Main Street. Some 6.8 million people have been unemployed in the last year for six months or longer. Their valuable skills are at risk, affecting their economic productivity for years to come. Add to this despairing army the large number of those only partially employed and those who have given up their search for work, and we have cumulative totals in the tens of millions.

Many people who joined the middle class, especially those who joined in the last few years, have now fallen back. It's not over yet. Millions cannot make minimum payments on their credit cards, or are in default or foreclosure on their mortgages, or are on food stamps. Well over 100,000 people file for bankruptcy every month. Some 3 million homeowners are estimated to face foreclosure this year, on top of 2.8 million last year. Millions of homes are located next to or near a foreclosed home, and it is the latter that may determine the price of all the homes on the street. There have been dramatically sharp declines in home equity, representing cumulative losses in the trillions of dollars in what has long been the largest asset on the average American family's balance sheet. Most of those who lost their homes are hard-working, middle-class Americans who had lost their jobs. Now many have to use credit cards to pay for essentials and make ends meet, and they are running out of credit. Another $5 trillion has been lost from pensions and savings.

But it is jobs that have long represented the stairway to upward mobility in America. For a long time, it was feared they were vulnerable to offshore competition (and indeed still are), but now the erosion is from economic decline at home. What happens as those domestic opportunities recede? Middle-class families fear they have become downwardly mobile and have not hit the bottom yet. The financial security that was once based on home equity and a pension has been swept away

n a survey just released, the Pew Research Center explored the recession's impact on households and how they are changing their spending and saving behavior. Nearly half the adults polled intend to boost their savings, cut their discretionary budgets, and cut their debt loads. The report concludes that the present enforced frugality will outlast the recession and its overhang. Fully 60 percent of those ages 50 to 61 say they may delay retirement. What does that mean for the young would-be employees entering the labor force over the next few years?

The administration's stimulus program, because of the way Congress put it together, has created far fewer jobs than anyone expected given the huge price tag of almost $800 billion. It was supposed to constrain unemployment at 8 percent, but the recession took the rate way above that and in the process humbled the Obama presidency. Some 25 million jobless or underemployed people now wish to work full time, but few companies are ready to hire. No speech is going to change that.

Little wonder there has been a gradual public disillusionment. Little wonder people have come alive to the issue of excess spending with entitlements out of control as far as the eye can see. The hope was that Obama would focus on the economy and jobs. That was the number one issue for the public—not healthcare. Yet the president spent almost a year on a healthcare bill. Eighty-five percent in one poll thought the great healthcare crisis was about cost. It was and is, but the president's bill was about extending coverage. It did nothing about the first concern and focused mostly on the second. Even worse, to win its approval he accepted the kind of scratch-my-back deal-making that suggests corruption in the political process. And as a result, Obama's promise to change "politics as usual" disappeared.

The president failed to communicate the value of what he wants to communicate. To a significant number of Americans, what came across was a new president trying to do too much in a hurry and, at the same time, radically change the equation of American life in favor of too much government. This feeling is intensified by Obama's emotional distance from the public. He conveys a coolness and detachment that limits the number of people who feel connected to him.

Americans today strongly support a pro-growth economic agenda that includes fiscal discipline, limited government, and deficit reduction. They fear the country is coming apart, while the novelty of Obama has worn off, along with the power of his position as the non-Bush. His decline in popularity has emboldened the opposition to try to block him at every turn.

Historically, presidents with approval ratings below 50 percent—Obama is at 45—lose an average of 41 House seats in midterm elections. This year, that would return the House of Representatives to Republican control. The Democrats will suffer disproportionately from a climate in which so many Americans are either dissatisfied or angry with the government, for Democrats are in the large majority in both houses and have to defend many more districts than Republicans. In any election year, voters' feelings typically settle in by June. But now they are being further hardened by the loose regulation that preceded the poisonous oil spill—and the tardy government response.

The promise of economic health that might salvage industries and jobs, and provide a safety net, has proved illusory. The support for cutting spending and cutting the deficit reflects in part the fact that the American public feels the Obama-Congress spending program has not worked. As for the healthcare reform bill, the most recent Rasmussen survey indicates that 52 percent of the electorate supports repeal of the measure—42 percent of them strongly.

It is clear that the magical moment of Obama's campaign conveyed a spell that is now broken in the context of the growing public disillusionment. Obama's rise has been spectacular, but so too has been his fall

[cowbilly]

Good read.

We have time to vote and change the Republican's back to a conservative party. The Republicans running in my area are very conservative and I support them. My state should get rid of 2 Democrats in the house. Those 2 were conservative democrats but they voted for Nancy Pelosi which nullifies them as conservatives in my book. Your choice will be D or R, there is no perfect candidate. Voting R will take out Reid and Pelosi's power, way less crap going up for Obama to sign into law.

It will take 4 years going this route if we stick to the strategy. We can stop the bleeding in November and start fixing the problem when Obama is out of office.

[Gary Harwell]

+1 on this one Cowbilly

[juanni]

The topic was WHAT are the repubs going to fight for if they win big...............................




but we are down to the usual pissing and moaning about Obama. :rolleyes:





.............juanni

[Bullwinkle]

NOTHING will change. IF and I mean IF the R's win BIG in NOV, the current congress will "LAME DUCK" their aganda through before January.

It is harder to UNDO it than to PREVENT.

It looks as though it will be TOO LATE. We need to PRAY, YES PRAY !!! and hold their feet to the FIRE if we are gonna get this country BACK !!!

[TheJokker]

as i mentioned if one wants to find fiscal conservatives who can emerge as leaders for the next decade one must look to the republicans. i mentioned the name of paul ryan:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Republicans-should-embrace-Paul-Ryan_s-Road-Map-98201434.html



For Republicans, the road map authored by Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin is the most important proposal in domestic policy since Ronald Reagan embraced supply-side economics in the 1980 presidential campaign. It's not only the freshest, boldest, and most comprehensive Republican thinking, it's also the most relevant. If Republicans adopt the road map as their basic ideological blueprint, it offers them the prospect of a landslide in the midterm election this year, followed by victory in the presidential election in 2012.

For sure, that's a lot of weight for a policy statement drafted by a 40-year-old House member to bear. But the road map is perfectly timed to deal with the crises of the moment: economic stagnation, uncontrolled spending, the deficit and long-term debt, soaring tax rates, health care, the housing problem, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid.

...

For now, the road map has a relatively small but growing cheering section. A dozen House members have endorsed it. Sen. Jim DeMint praised it in his book "Saving Freedom." Jeb Bush likes it. On CNN last week, economic historian Niall Ferguson called Ryan "a serious thinker on the Republican right who's prepared to grapple with these issues of fiscal sustainability and come up with a plan."

The plan would give everyone a refundable tax credit to buy health insurance, allow individual investment accounts to be carved out of Social Security, reduce the six income tax rates to two (10 and 25 percent), and replace the corporate tax (35 percent) with a business consumption tax (8.5 percent). And that's not the half of it.

As ranking Republican on the House Budget Committee, Ryan was able to get the Congressional Budget Office to run the numbers in his plan. CBO concluded the plan would "make the Social Security and Medicare programs permanently solvent [and] lift the growing debt burden on future generations, and hold federal taxes to no higher than 19 percent of GDP." Pretty impressive results, I'd say.

The road map does one more thing. It would give Republicans an agenda if they gain control of the House or Senate in the midterm election -- or a mandate if they win both. "What's the point of winning an election if you don't have a mandate?" Ryan asks.

He doesn't expect a mandate in 2010. "I need to make sure these ideas survive this election," he says, and set the stage for "the most ideological, sea-changing election in our lifetime" in 2012. Merely survive in 2010? The road map can do better than that. How about thrive?


i invite everybody to spend 10 or 15 minutes and check out paul ryan and than compare him with obama.

juanni: why do debates of this nature end up talking about obama? because all coins have two sides and if you ignore one side you miss the total picture. many people who in 2008 were so consumed with anger for the republicans and missed the danger posed by obama are having seconds thoughts about those decisions. take the pledge: never again reject the lesser evil without first considering the consequences of the greater evil.

[cowbilly]

That question was already answered Juanni. The bleeding will stop. Will it get fixed? No, not right away. It will take a new president and another senate to fix it. Conservative Republicans are our best bet, but we have to remove the Democrats first, that may include voting for a Republican you don't like.

[juanni]

Originally posted by cowbilly
That question was already answered Juanni. The bleeding will stop. Will it get fixed? No, not right away. It will take a new president and another senate to fix it. Conservative Republicans are our best bet, but we have to remove the Democrats first, that may include voting for a Republican you don't like.

Nonsense.

A new repub controlled house may be able to stop the demos from inflicting NEW wounds, but there are plenty of existing gushers that are rapidly bleeding us dry.

That is why ACTION must be taken to treat those NOW, but the consenses is, they will simply be ignored.

If you think the economy is bad now, just wait til the bandaids of stimulus and perpetually extended unemployement benefits end, tax revenue plummet and QE2 begins.




................juanni

[cowbilly]

What is your plan to speed up the process and save the US? Do enlighten us.

[juanni]

Originally posted by cowbilly
What is your plan to speed up the process and save the US? Do enlighten us.

Huh???

You need to go back to post #1 where I (and down the thread other members) suggested a few of the MAJOR changes that are required to return our system to a Capitalist, Free Market model and dismantle the Big Govt, Crony Capitalist, Nanny State model that has imploded, and the damage is just starting to be seen.


............juanni

[juanni]

That was a good opinion piece not only because it highlighted Obama's failures but it also pointed out the non solutions offered by the republicans. :uhoh:

Distilled down, it is failure under the current leadership from both parties will continue.

Originally posted by Gary Harwell
This is from Mort Zuckerman, a smart man who supported Obama, and even smarter one who is now smearing him.


By MORTIMER B. ZUCKERMAN
Posted: July 2, 2010

There is a widespread feeling that the government doesn't work, that it is incapable of solving America's problems. Americans are fed up with Washington, fed up with Wall Street, fed up with the necessary but ill-conceived stimulus program, fed up with the misdirected healthcare program, and with pretty much everything else. They are outraged and feel that the system is not a level playing field, but is tilted against them. The millions of unemployed feel abandoned by the president, by the Democratic Congress, and by the Republicans.

The American people wanted change, and who could blame them? But now there is no change they can believe in. Sixty-two percent believe we are headed in the wrong direction —a record during this administration. All the polls indicate that anti-Washington, anti-incumbent sentiment is greater than it has been in many years.

Republicans are benefiting not because they have a credible or popular program—they don't—but because they are not Democrats. In a recent Wall Street Journal/NBC poll, nearly two thirds of those who favor Republican control of Congress say they are motivated primarily by opposition to Obama and Democratic policy. Disapproval of Congress is so widespread, a recent Gallup poll suggests, that by a margin of almost two to one, Americans would rather vote for a candidate with no experience than for an incumbent. Throw the bums out is the mood. How could this have happened so quickly?

The fundamental problem is starkly simple: jobs and the deepening fear among the public that the American dream is vanishing before their eyes.

Little wonder there has been a gradual public disillusionment. Little wonder people have come alive to the issue of excess spending with entitlements out of control as far as the eye can see.

Americans today strongly support a pro-growth economic agenda that includes fiscal discipline, limited government, and deficit reduction.



Americans today strongly support a pro-growth economic agenda that includes fiscal discipline, limited government, and deficit reduction.
Status quo republicans will not be delivering or even fighting for any of that.



...........juanni

[cowbilly]

How do you propose to expedite these changes? Your posts suggest we do not have time to vote for conservatives. You list a bunch of stuff that you think needs to happen but voting won't make it happen fast enough. The main point of your posts are "it needs to stop now".

Thus the question remains. What is your idea on how to initiate change as soon as possible? No insults needed.

[juanni]

Originally posted by cowbilly
How do you propose to expedite these changes? Your posts suggest we do not have time to vote for conservatives. You list a bunch of stuff that you think needs to happen but voting won't make it happen fast enough. The main point of your posts are "it needs to stop now".

Thus the question remains. What is your idea on how to initiate change as soon as possible? No insults needed.

I suspect we have passed the point where voting alone can turn things around without tax revolts, civil disobedience etc.... or worse.

However, if voting alone can be the cure.

Status Quo = the opposite of Mort's "Americans today strongly support a pro-growth economic agenda that includes fiscal discipline, limited government, and deficit reduction." or my terms Big Govt, Welfare/Warfare, Nanny state.

Ignoring the demos, clearly the repub leadership and party haven't fought for "fiscal discipline, limited government, and deficit reduction" in any serious way.

Conservatives need to actively search out and support candidates that are WAY outside of the Status Quo mainstream and well before the primaries. Passively waiting or ignoring the process until only Status Quo candidates are the ONLY viabile candidates left is too late.
How many new repub congresspersons that are elected this fall will ACTUALLY be conservative and fight the Status Quo? I suspect not many to none.

Vote out any and all incumbents that support the Status Quo from either party.

Refuse to support any Status Quo candidates from either party.

Anything less and you are supporting the Status Quo and FAILURE, regardless of how one Status Quo candidate may be slightly better than the other.
To believe otherwise is deluded.


.............juanni

[cowbilly]

Thanks for clearing that up.

I still say we need to get rid of the democrats at all cost first. Then weed out the Republicans and replace them with true conservatives. We are stuck in a two party system, we must use it to our advantage. The democrats can pass anything they want to and have been doing so depsite the outcries.

A vote for a conservative democrat is a vote for Pelosi or Reid, they stick together no matter what. Republican is the best choice, any other vote helps the democrats. Change must come from within the party that closely resembles our beliefs. The Republicans are not on target but they are close enough to correct.

The November election is the starting point, we have time. We still have a chance going that route, all is not lost (yet).

[juanni]

Originally posted by cowbilly

I still say we need to get rid of the democrats at all cost first. Then weed out the Republicans and replace them with true conservatives. We are stuck in a two party system, we must use it to our advantage. The democrats can pass anything they want to and have been doing so depsite the outcries.


Here is the problem, it doesn't work that way.

Once a party's incumbent is in, there is very little chance of ever getting them booted out for a better replacement.

Example: McCain.
Big Govt, pro TARP, Warfare/Welfare status quo republican,,,total failure.
He is not a conservative, yet the party (Sh*t Romney, Palin, etc.) rallies to support him, of course his only viable repub opponent is another Status Quo boob.

Dying, HUGE scandal or a Demo victory is the only way McCain will ever be purged.

The exceptions are like Bennet (UT) getting purged, but that only occurred because of Utah's unusual primary selection process.

We don't have a 2 party system, see the Constitution.
We have 2 Crime Families alternating control both with the same rackets and goals of feeding off the productivity of non family members in the hood. :uhoh:


..............juanni

[davedude]

I suspect we have passed the point where voting alone can turn things around without tax revolts, civil disobedience etc.... or worse.

If 80% of Americans stay home on election day AGAIN, commies and crooks will continue to ass-rape and loot America.


I think the dem criminals will try to pull an "October Surprise" of some sort.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/07/the_october_surprise_is_coming.html

Have you ever heard concern about republicans doing the same thing?

From the article:

But the party of haters, infiltrators, anti-capitalists, the party that is anti-freedom and anti-individual rights, is going to have to pull off something really catastrophic to stay in power this November. And they will, because it is abundantly clear now that they despise the premise of America and they mean to replace it with statism, the source of untold, incomprehensible human misery for centuries.

Bad republicans is one thing---but they are just clowns compared to the EVIL that is the face of the democrat party today.

Juanni, why didn't you comment on Jokers post about Paul Ryan's roadmap? Does it invalidate post #1 in this thread?

http://www.roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/

I don't see this being the same route as the commie police state democrats have planned.

Dave Dude

[cowbilly]

Health care, Kagan/Sotamayor (sp?) and cap and trade would not happen under a Republican House and Senate. Taxes may go up in some aspects but the Republicans would have renewed the Bush tax cuts.

No matter what the constitution says, we have a predominant 2 party system. You can argue all you want to, either a democrat or republican will be in charge of the house and senate.

It can work through the primary system. You have to beat this system within the rules of the game. Then once you've won the game you can get back to the constitution as it was meant to be.

The "or worse" portion of your plan need not happen if we beat them at their own game through the election process.

The sky is still up there and we can come out of this without all hell breaking loose.

[juanni]

Originally posted by davedude


Juanni, why didn't you comment on Jokers post about Paul Ryan's roadmap? Does it invalidate post #1 in this thread?


Dave Dude

Because Ryan's plan is just another bandaid stuck upon a patchwork of bandaids trying to fix the fiscal infection that has/is ever sickening our economy.

Corporate tax this, corporate tax that, 2 tax income rates, blah, blah. blah....
Oh he left out addressing that the ENTIRE TAX CODE that he is patching is carved out with tax breaks for the connected.

Dave, Goldman Sachs made $2.3 billion profits and legally paid 1% in WORLDWIDE taxes!
1% (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a6bQVsZS2_18)
Other companies do likewise.

Dave I want to make 2.3 BILLION and pay 1% in taxes!!!!!!!

Not sure what a Corporate comsumption tax would look like passed by a corrupt congress, but lets say we have 2 corporations.

One that manufactures a useful product and CONSUMES raw materials, gobs of energy, machines, tooling, trucks etc....

And another that "invests", shuffles paper, creates "innovative financial products" etc.. and really only consumes power to run the lights and computers and paper,,,,,, and well shedders of course.

Who do you think the tax burden will fall on? The producer of a real product or the savvy $2.3 billion dollar of profits investment firm?

There needs to be tax reform, BIG TAX REFORM.
Eliminate ALL the loopholes, all the taxbreaks, all the IRS approved fraudulent accounting schemes and you will have a fair, simple tax code where businesses know what their taxes will be this year, next year, the one there after and they can dump their army of accountants and lawyers and not worry about what taxbreak their competitor is weaseling out of congress next week, ala UPS vs FEDEX.

And everyone would be paying their fair share.

Doing so would be yet another thing that govt could do to create a vibrant, predictable, free market economy.

I could go on, but why?



...............juanni

[cowbilly]

:beer:

[davedude]

Because Ryan's plan is just another bandaid stuck upon a patchwork of bandaids trying to fix the fiscal infection that has/is ever sickening our economy. Corporate tax this, corporate tax that, 2 tax income rates, blah, blah. blah.... Oh he left out addressing that the ENTIRE TAX CODE that he is patching is carved out with tax breaks for the connected.

Got to start somewhere Juanni. And it is head and shoulders better than the commie police state crimes democrats are trying to implement.

Dave, Goldman Sachs made $2.3 billion profits and legally paid 1% in WORLDWIDE taxes! 1% Other companies do likewise. Dave I want to make 2.3 BILLION and pay 1% in taxes!!!!!!!

Sure does pay for GS to be buddies with obama and turbo-tax timmy, doesn't it?

There needs to be tax reform, BIG TAX REFORM.

It's quite obvious you will not get that from Democrats.

Dave Dude

[TheJokker]

that is the major difference between juanni and i. juanni wants to roll back 40 years of socialism in one step which is politically impossible and may likely "kill" the economy. he rejects a plan that "is" politically possible and works in multiple stages. the fact that such a plan may actually work is irrelevant to juanni.

[juanni]

Originally posted by TheJokker
that is the major difference between juanni and i. juanni wants to roll back 40 years of socialism in one step which is politically impossible and may likely "kill" the economy. he rejects a plan that "is" politically possible and works in multiple stages. the fact that such a plan may actually work is irrelevant to juanni.

Assuming the Repubs win BIG, what will change?

Stay focused. ;)

The question isn't about The Democrats, it is about what will the Republicans ACTUALLY attempt to change.
Your answer to date is,,,,,,, basically nothing,,,,,but give them years and they will.
:rolleyes:



.................juanni

[Sailor553]

[QUOTE]roll back 40 years of socialism[QUOTE]
Let's count:
1970 to 2010 is forty years. The repubs led the way for how many of these years? Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and a pair of Bushes. Five presidents to the GOP and three to the Dems. Oops, the president in 1970 was? The Import Ban?

Apologies to the focus.

[308bolt]

Originally posted by Gary Harwell
This is from Mort Zuckerman, a smart man who supported Obama,

A modern paradox.

[juanni]

Originally posted by Sailor553
[QUOTE]roll back 40 years of socialism[QUOTE]
Let's count:
1970 to 2010 is forty years. The repubs led the way for how many of these years? Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and a pair of Bushes. Five presidents to the GOP and three to the Dems. Oops, the president in 1970 was? The Import Ban?

Apologies to the focus.

Well that is Jokker's focus. ;)

Democratic socalism = bad.
Republican socialism = ignored. :rolleyes:


..............juanni

[davedude]

that is the major difference between juanni and i. juanni wants to roll back 40 years of socialism in one step which is politically impossible and may likely "kill" the economy. he rejects a plan that "is" politically possible and works in multiple stages. the fact that such a plan may actually work is irrelevant to juanni.

I think your wrong jokker, I think juanni just blows smoke about reversing socialism and he truly is a democrat hack trying desperately to damage the opposition as much as possible any way possible.

He puts out just enough bullshit to create a smokescreen to hide behind, faking an interest in conservatism. But interspersed with the fake conservatism are partisan hack attacks on the right, like this thread. Meant to create despair and apathy and ignoring fact, it is a page written right out of the alinsky playbook. And it works too, check the mushbrains who fall for the propaganda. Juanni even inspired super-leftist sailor to poke his marxist-criminal supporting head out of the woodwork!

The fact is, despite all the problems with republicans, there is a huge difference between them and democrats and big changes from the current course set by criminal marxist democrats will be seen because American citizens are demanding it be so. Thats what scares the democrats so much, that maybe the conservative majority will get off it's fat ass and actually vote this time. No way the democrats can win if that happens. Juanni is quite obviously (IMHO) working to make sure non-voting conservatives stay non-voting by creating doubt and despair.

Dave Dude

[308bolt]

Dave,
IMO
Your faith is misplaced if you count on either party.
If your hoping for a conservative renaissance look to the alienated Dem moderates and the alienated Rep conservatives.
That coalition of people who have the long term welfare of our nation in mind, can succeed.
Our best bet for a revival of the United States appears to me as being the Tea Party and/or similar coalitions (which are comprised of moderates and conservatives) taking over the Republican party.
The only reason this might be possible is because of the beatings the Republicans have taken by the democrat party in the last couple of elections.
The nut bag far right caused the party great harm and it's still trying to regain it's balance.
Now that the nut bag far left has shown it's true colors the same will happen to them.
The nut bags of both parties have hung around so long they've become the leadership.
If we don't purge the fanatics from both parties our nation is going down hard.
It's going to be a close run thing.

[davedude]

Your faith is misplaced if you count on either party.

308bolt dude I heard that! Don't get me wrong, I am not a repubbot.

I want to vote all the bastards out except my house rep, Sam Johnson and maybe a few others.

Can you believe a bunch of so-called republicans voted to confirm Ms Marxist kagan even after she lied her ass off to them? Those guys need to be GONE. Then there are the two birdbrains from Maine and their stupid little brother from Mass who helped pass financial reform and i bet they didn't even f**king read the goddamn bill.

RINO season is open, no bag limits!


Dave Dude

[martin35]

Tantrum based politics piss me off, if you don't agree that pisses me off, if you do agree is it because you are pissed off or on?
Little wonder we are the worlds leading drug consumers of reality altering substances and mental cruise controls.

[308bolt]

Originally posted by martin35
Tantrum based politics piss me off, if you don't agree that pisses me off, if you do agree is it because you are pissed off or on?
Little wonder we are the worlds leading drug consumers of reality altering substances and mental cruise controls.

That's what it's all about.
Keep the wagon moving so it's easier to steer.

[juanni]

Originally posted by davedude


I think your wrong jokker, I think juanni just blows smoke about reversing socialism and he truly is a democrat hack trying desperately to damage the opposition as much as possible any way possible.

He puts out just enough bullshit to create a smokescreen to hide behind, faking an interest in conservatism. But interspersed with the fake conservatism are partisan hack attacks on the right, like this thread. Meant to create despair and apathy and ignoring fact, it is a page written right out of the alinsky playbook. And it works too, check the mushbrains who fall for the propaganda. Juanni even inspired super-leftist sailor to poke his marxist-criminal supporting head out of the woodwork!

The fact is, despite all the problems with republicans, there is a huge difference between them and democrats and big changes from the current course set by criminal marxist democrats will be seen because American citizens are demanding it be so. Thats what scares the democrats so much, that maybe the conservative majority will get off it's fat ass and actually vote this time. No way the democrats can win if that happens. Juanni is quite obviously (IMHO) working to make sure non-voting conservatives stay non-voting by creating doubt and despair.

Dave Dude

It was such a clever scheme until foiled by my nemisis, Dave Dude.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Dave if there is such a "huge difference" between the parties please do, here and now make your predictions of the "huge" Republican conservative agenda items that will be fought for by a freshly elected Repub congress.

Waiting for that "huge" list ............


..............juanni

[davedude]

Well ok Juanni---you asked and I deliver.


http://gopleader.gov/default.aspx

http://www.americaspeakingout.com/

http://republicanwhip.house.gov/

http://www.gop.gov/

http://policy.house.gov/

http://repcloakroom.house.gov/news/DocumentQuery.aspx?DocumentTypeID=1501

http://www.house.gov/budget_republicans/press/2007/pr20090401_gopbudget.pdf

http://gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/GOP_No_Cost_Jobs_Plan.pdf

http://www.gop.gov/energy

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

http://republicans.financialservices.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=601&Itemid=42

Chew thru that and let me know when you want more.

Here is a golden opportunity for you Juanni---stack up all the democrat positions side by side with republican positions and prove to me it's the same.

I can't say I am a fan of everything GOP, but there is hundred megatons of good stuff there that democrats are currently not offering.

Dave Dude

[martin35]

If Dave Dude had one more D name he would be a 3 D American,,,, a enviable diminsion of notoriety.
jaunni has already benighted him as that Damn Dave Dude,,, you need the special glass's to fully appreciate DDD,,,, like I do.

[juanni]

Originally posted by davedude
Well ok Juanni---you asked and I deliver.


http://gopleader.gov/default.aspx

http://www.americaspeakingout.com/

http://republicanwhip.house.gov/

http://www.gop.gov/

http://policy.house.gov/

http://repcloakroom.house.gov/news/DocumentQuery.aspx?DocumentTypeID=1501

http://www.house.gov/budget_republicans/press/2007/pr20090401_gopbudget.pdf

http://gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/GOP_No_Cost_Jobs_Plan.pdf

http://www.gop.gov/energy

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

http://republicans.financialservices.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=601&Itemid=42

Chew thru that and let me know when you want more.

Here is a golden opportunity for you Juanni---stack up all the democrat positions side by side with republican positions and prove to me it's the same.

I can't say I am a fan of everything GOP, but there is hundred megatons of good stuff there that democrats are currently not offering.

Dave Dude

Lord man, I ask of YOU what big, serious, conservative legislative bills YOU think a repub congress will seriously attempt to implement and you give video links to republican party propaganda. :rolleyes:

I am talking about ACTUALLY fighting for and implementing conservative change, where the rubber meets the road!!! Not more lipservice.
Doing ,,,,,, not gum flapping.

Can YOU even think for yourself?????

Go back post #1 and read the topic and the question..... and then come back with a list of SPECFIC ITEMS you think a repub congress will fight for say in the first 6 months or year.




..............juanni

[davedude]

Go back post #1 and read the topic and the question..... and then come back with a list of SPECFIC ITEMS you think a repub congress will fight for say in the first 6 months or year.

All I can do is point you to the list of stuff republicans are 'gum flapping' about Juanni, I don't have a crystal ball. There is, like I said, megatons of specific stuff in the links I provided. Straight from the horses mouth.

People are pissed and want the crooks infesting government rooted out and prosecuted. Heads on pikes. All the marxist crap nullified and repealed. I understand that.

Hopefully that anger will translate into some of the vast non-voting conservative majority getting off their asses, getting registered and f**king voting the commie bastards out.

Dave Dude

[juanni]

Originally posted by davedude


All I can do is point you to the list of stuff republicans are 'gum flapping' about Juanni, I don't have a crystal ball. There is, like I said, megatons of specific stuff in the links I provided. Straight from the horses mouth.

People are pissed and want the crooks infesting government rooted out and prosecuted. Heads on pikes. All the marxist crap nullified and repealed. I understand that.

Hopefully that anger will translate into some of the vast non-voting conservative majority getting off their asses, getting registered and f**king voting the commie bastards out.

Dave Dude

Yes Dave, we all know about the last 50 years of republican party gum flapping about smaller limited govt, etc.....
but we also know when in a position of power to ACTUALLY do something all the gum flapping amounts to only that.

So from a lack of specific any items, can we conclude you are like almost everyone else in this thread that believes no conservative legislative agenda will be aggressively pursued once a new republican congress is voted in?



.................juanni

[martin35]

Rules of Senority will restrain most, senority is the golden scepter of power in our houses of congress and is a stumbling block for any member without it.
America is a country of rules for success and for failure and oportunity is more narrowly defined by the powerful few as time goes by.
This threads question can only be answered by Nancy Reagan's wizened gypsy fortune teller who ran the last days of the Reagan alzhiemered administration,,, or by a Chinese fortune cookie, take your choice.

[davedude]

So from a lack of specific any items, can we conclude you are like almost everyone else in this thread that believes no conservative legislative agenda will be aggressively pursued once a new republican congress is voted in? .................juanni

You can conclude anything you like Juanni. Looks like you will do that too, regardless of anything I post. You have that freedom for now, until criminal marxists figure out how to silence you. And they are working hard to do that, blatantly and out in the open.

Vote the bastards out.

Dave Dude

[juanni]

Originally posted by davedude


You can conclude anything you like Juanni. Looks like you will do that too, regardless of anything I post. You have that freedom for now, until criminal marxists figure out how to silence you. And they are working hard to do that, blatantly and out in the open.

Vote the bastards out.

Dave Dude

Well Dave, you could just post up a list of items YOU think a repub congress will aggressively pursue, after all that is the TOPIC.

Or you could just continue with the pointless obfuscation of your "criminal marxists" rants and tireless promotion of official republican party gum flapping.

Your choice.




................juanni

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by davedude


I think your wrong jokker, I think juanni just blows smoke about reversing socialism and he truly is a democrat hack trying desperately to damage the opposition as much as possible any way possible.

He puts out just enough bullshit to create a smokescreen to hide behind, faking an interest in conservatism. But interspersed with the fake conservatism are partisan hack attacks on the right, like this thread. Meant to create despair and apathy and ignoring fact, it is a page written right out of the alinsky playbook. And it works too, check the mushbrains who fall for the propaganda. Juanni even inspired super-leftist sailor to poke his marxist-criminal supporting head out of the woodwork!

The fact is, despite all the problems with republicans, there is a huge difference between them and democrats and big changes from the current course set by criminal marxist democrats will be seen because American citizens are demanding it be so. Thats what scares the democrats so much, that maybe the conservative majority will get off it's fat ass and actually vote this time. No way the democrats can win if that happens. Juanni is quite obviously (IMHO) working to make sure non-voting conservatives stay non-voting by creating doubt and despair.

Dave Dude

i believe that juanni truly wants to believe he is a conservative but his innate liberalism compels him to reject supporting anything conservative. he wants to be an honest critic but his own self-deception has twisted juanni into an anti-conservative liberal in denial.

wileyscg and sailor's support for juanni's position is likewise noted.

in chess there is an opening, a middle and an endgame. juanni rejects an opening as a beginning this november. he rejects anything that is not an endgame as unacceptable. such a position is of course absurd.

in 2008 the country purged the government of republican incumbents. in 2010 the purge is for democrats replaced with fresh faced republicans. while imperfect within the republican party are the ideals from which the reforms juanni promotes can be found. juanni may demand an "endgame" but i am content with an "opening" from which an endgame may occur.

november represents a new beginning for America…

[wileycsg]

I believe that jokker wants people to think that he's a true conservative but his blind devotion to the neo-con/GOP agenda is his own real agenda. He has no desire to be honest but hopes to fool anyone with the belief that the GOP is as close to good government that they are allowed to expect.

On a extremely conservative board, that only a very few such as davedude don't ridicule his opinions is likewise noted.

Reform must begin somewhere. jokker rejects such a thing be allowed to happen. He rejects any change in the past GOP policies as unacceptable. His position is of course absurd.

In 2008 the country purged the government of republican incumbents. In 2010 many democrats will be replaced. jokker promotes that the republicans go back to the same policies that failed them the first time. He's content with the neo-con form of government and thinks that everyone else should be too.

November could be a new beginning for America. "The fool" doesn't like that. He wants the same as it ever was.

[martin35]

GOP objectives were always the more appealing to conservatives, those who pretend to implement them have lost their appeal.

[DP]

Dave Dude is henceforth named Dammit Dave Dude....there by proclamation he is now 3D!!!!!!:rofl:

DP

[DP]

Didn't read the whole post - so didn't see where Juanni had already done that...$hit a day late and a dollar short as always!!!:mad:

However, Martin...when dealing with DDDs - it is important to wear safety glasses less yer eyes get poked out!!!:bigangel:

DP

edited cuz I caint spell fer crap!!

[davedude]

i believe that juanni truly wants to believe he is a conservative but his innate liberalism compels him to reject supporting anything conservative. he wants to be an honest critic but his own self-deception has twisted juanni into an anti-conservative liberal in denial.

Yeah I thought of that too. Either way, "twisted" is the correct word.

And speaking of absurd, Wiley went "full obama" on his last post. (ridiculous blatant lies). A la howard dean.

Dave Dude

[davedude]

However, Martin...when dealing with DDDs - it is important to wear safety glasses less yer eyes get poked out!!!

LOL! Thank you DP, made me laugh!

:bow:

Dave Dude

[martin35]

I asked my momma why I had 3 names and she said so she would have 3 names to call me when she got mad at me,,, Damn was one of my names too.

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by wileycsg
I believe that jokker wants people to think that he's a true conservative but his blind devotion to the neo-con/GOP agenda is his own real agenda. He has no desire to be honest but hopes to fool anyone with the belief that the GOP is as close to good government that they are allowed to expect.

On a extremely conservative board, that only a very few such as davedude don't ridicule his opinions is likewise noted.

Reform must begin somewhere. jokker rejects such a thing be allowed to happen. He rejects any change in the past GOP policies as unacceptable. His position is of course absurd.

In 2008 the country purged the government of republican incumbents. In 2010 many democrats will be replaced. jokker promotes that the republicans go back to the same policies that failed them the first time. He's content with the neo-con form of government and thinks that everyone else should be too.

November could be a new beginning for America. "The fool" doesn't like that. He wants the same as it ever was.

wileyscg = stupor liberal

attack republicans and defend democrats = 99.9% of your posts. how can we not assume you are a liberal? while an extremely liberal gun owner may be a conservative in massachusetts you are still an extremely liberal by most other states standards.

i seek a return to traditional american government therefore i oppose vehemently all things liberal. in order to oppose liberals i support the formation of a conservative majority including supporting conservative factions i may not necessarily agree with but the ends (denying power to liberals) justifies the means. "deny power to liberals' is my mantra.

wileycsg thinks michelle obama is hot…

[juanni]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
It is amusing that the biggist GOP cheerleaders and "we gotta vote for em", members, Jokker, 3D (Dammit Dave Dude), Munster (missing in action), Cowbilly,, etc....

refuse to or can't post up a simple, direct answer to the topic.
Now is the time to make prognostications.
Assuming the repubs grab the House and possibly the Senate what BIG, SIGNIFICANT bills do you think they will go to the mat for?

Instead it is the usual complaining about the evil demos, marxists, socialists, liberals, Obama or attempts at determining what was the real "hidden" reason why I posted this topic. :rolleyes:

They have become just like our politicians, ducking and avoiding an honest direct answer and attempting to steer the topic in all directions other than the original one.

3D, was great with 12 posts WITHOUT any predictions what so ever,,,only to finally say "he is not a fortune teller". :rofl::rofl::rofl:
Well 3D, if you can't make any predictions, why are you making 12 posts in a thread asking for SPECFIC predictions.

Ditto Jokker with his 10 posts of absolutely nothingness as far as the topic. Did manage to proclaim his love for Paul Ryan and his "roadmap" though. :love:



...............juanni

[101ABN327]

we all know about the last 50 years of republican party gum flapping about smaller limited govt, etc.....

Yeah, those damned Republicans and their socialized medicine scheme they served to America like a supposotory? Big government Republicans...:rolleyes:

[juanni]

Originally posted by 101ABN327


Yeah, those damned Republicans and their socialized medicine scheme they served to America like a supposotory? Big government Republicans...:rolleyes:

Off topic but,,

LBJ's original Medicare or the biggest expansion since, Bush's $1.2 Trillion Prescription Drug Plan? :uhoh:

or is $1.2 Trillion pocket change to you and should be ignored, because it was well,,,, a Grand Old Party plan?


..............juanni

[davedude]

I posted your answers juanus, you choose not to see.

A democrat tactic.


Dave Dude

[juanni]

Originally posted by davedude
I posted your answers juanus, you choose not to see.

A democrat tactic.


Dave Dude

No 3D you didn't. You posted a bunch of links to repub party gum flapping.

Here, lets' try this one more time.
Now is the time to make prognostications.
Assuming the repubs grab the House and possibly the Senate what BIG, SIGNIFICANT bills do you think they will go to the mat for?


Yes, you, or are you John Boner? :p

This is where you fill in the blanks.
1.________________
2.________________
3.________________

Come on 3D, you are now up to 13 posts in this thread, surely #14 will be the one where you actually stick to the topic.

waiting.............




...................juanni

[Col. Bat Guano]

There's one thing that I think that we are overlooking. Regardless of the flavor of slimeballs in Congress, there still exists the vast reservoir of government bureaucrats whose sole existence is to thwart common sense with multiple layers of regulations. Congresscritters may come and go, but bureaucrats are forever ... kind of like cockroaches in a post nuclear apocalyptic world.

[308bolt]

Juanni,

After reading this thread, just out of curiosity I have to ask.

What's your point?
Do you believe voting is futile or are you advocating for status quo?

Is there some other point that I've missed entirely?

[martin35]

If Republicans don't refuse to reinstate the same leadership repeal Health Care in it's entirety, address the borders with states rights for sovereign law enforcement and declare a National sentiment that recognizes the God of our fathers they will have the same crap to contend with in 2012.

[308bolt]

Originally posted by martin35
If Republicans don't refuse to reinstate the same leadership repeal Health Care in it's entirety, address the borders with states rights for sovereign law enforcement and declare a National sentiment that recognizes the God of our fathers they will have the same crap to contend with in 2012.

I wonder if they're getting the message yet.

[EricCartmanR1]

Originally posted by mitchellh


Nothing will change!




Truth!

[juanni]

Originally posted by 308bolt
Juanni,

After reading this thread, just out of curiosity I have to ask.

What's your point?
Do you believe voting is futile or are you advocating for status quo?

Is there some other point that I've missed entirely?

Well 308bolt, it is obvious the country is pissed off and going to take it out on the dems this time around, so the repubs should win big.

But I expect nothing of legislative significance to change, so although there is some satisfaction in seeing the demos booted but if nothing really changes legislatively with the legislature well what is the point, in booting them out or even enjoying the moment? :uhoh:

So, I wondered if others didn't share my lack of confidence in the repubs and maybe that explained why most here are so looking forward to the dem's ass kicking in Nov.

But the big surprise is that no one expects any real change.
I expected others to make grandiose predictions of big legislative victories, that sadly would never come true, but instead anyone with a relevant answer, predicted "nothing" for the list of repub bills that they would fight for.

So as this thread evolved, I find it perplexing that most here want to believe there is an alternative to the demos, but when we have to actually declare the anti demo agenda the repubs will fight for,,,, well there isn't any. Yet there will be much cheering over the repub victory.

It is dysfunctional, liking taking pleasure in that your fellow passenger on a sinking ship in the middle of the ocean doesn't have a life vest,,,,, but you don't either.

For myself, I will vote for the best candidates that support the constitution and limited govt from any party, and it usually is 3rd party and of course they never win.
But at least I didn't vote for "change nothing of significance" and then bitch that "nothing of significance changed" as the country goes off the cliff.

And it is going off the cliff.
One always wonders when an historical empire collapses/downgrades, why they were unable to change course, but instead just kept plodding along on to the cliff.

We are witnessing why.






.................juanni

[308bolt]

Juanni,

I think we have a chance.
A slim one but a chance nonetheless.
I haven't seen people this stirred up since the 60s.
This time it's the conservatives rather than the mindless liberals.
If the Republican party gets enough fresh blood they may be able to make some headway towards restoring the Republic.

I believe we're two elections away from something.
Maybe a restoration of the Constitution or maybe a Civil war.

I'll wager all great civilizations had more than a few false starts before they went into the shitter.
Hell, we're barely 200 years old.

[martin35]

I wonder if they're getting the message yet. It's real hard to listen when your mouths running and your teleprompter is scrolling ahead.

[davedude]

Juanni there is no way for me to predict the future. Sorry dude. You are being unreasonable to demand predictions.

The links I posted contain detail in the extreme of legislation Republicans are looking to act on. Posted online for all to see, unlike democrats who promise transparency but deliver none.

Obviously the majority of Republicans are feeling the flames of heat from the conservative majority on their asses and are moving the right way. No pun intended.

Everything depends on the vast majority of non-voting conservatives actually using their power and voting. The power they have been brainwashed to believe does not matter or will have no effect. The power that YOU are trying very hard to dismiss as ineffective.

You work against the very thing you claim to want. And put lots of effort into it, as this thread reveals.

The marxists and rinos depend on Americans NOT voting to remain in power. The marxists are free to run roughshod on our rights and steal our property only because huge numbers of conservative non-voters let them stay.

That sh*t needs to change right now or we are f*cked.

It will take several election cycles to clean out the criminals but it can be done easily if all American conservatives use the power of their votes.

Vote the bastards out Juanni.

Dave Dude

[martin35]

DDD, it's a spit and argue forum, and juanni spits and argues for a living, he's ridin' one of those ass wiggle propelled skateboards,,, and you do pretty well also.

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by juanni


Well 308bolt, it is obvious the country is pissed off and going to take it out on the dems this time around, so the repubs should win big.

But I expect nothing of legislative significance to change, so although there is some satisfaction in seeing the demos booted but if nothing really changes legislatively with the legislature well what is the point, in booting them out or even enjoying the moment? :uhoh:

So, I wondered if others didn't share my lack of confidence in the repubs and maybe that explained why most here are so looking forward to the dem's ass kicking in Nov.

But the big surprise is that no one expects any real change.
I expected others to make grandiose predictions of big legislative victories, that sadly would never come true, but instead anyone with a relevant answer, predicted "nothing" for the list of repub bills that they would fight for.

So as this thread evolved, I find it perplexing that most here want to believe there is an alternative to the demos, but when we have to actually declare the anti demo agenda the repubs will fight for,,,, well there isn't any. Yet there will be much cheering over the repub victory.

It is dysfunctional, liking taking pleasure in that your fellow passenger on a sinking ship in the middle of the ocean doesn't have a life vest,,,,, but you don't either.

For myself, I will vote for the best candidates that support the constitution and limited govt from any party, and it usually is 3rd party and of course they never win.
But at least I didn't vote for "change nothing of significance" and then bitch that "nothing of significance changed" as the country goes off the cliff.

And it is going off the cliff.
One always wonders when an historical empire collapses/downgrades, why they were unable to change course, but instead just kept plodding along on to the cliff.

We are witnessing why.
.................juanni

name something big that will result by voting for some obscure 3rd party candidate? we know they will not be elected so they will have no chance of advancing any agenda.

"your" way has no effect at all on the problems our country is facing and as in 2008 actually results in making matters much, much worse. by contrast "our" way has a reasonable probability of "beginning" meaningful reform. before you can "finish" you must first begin.

"our" plan has a real probability of working; your plan is guaranteed to fail. that's the difference between you an me.

[shlomo]

Originally posted by davedude
Juanni there is no way for me to predict the future. Sorry dude. You are being unreasonable to demand predictions.

Dave Dude
If you have no clue, how do you determine who gets your vote? Is it simply determined by who the candidate is not?

He asked what you think they'll do. Not for a guarantee.

[Sailor553]

Too bad neither party is able to put forth a (any) suitable candidates. I suggest (and have for my entire tenure here at the Files) that We simply vote all and any incumbent out of office. If your ballot has more than one other candidate choice - then you are in luck. Repeat for a few election cycles.

The message sent is clear.

[juanni]

Originally posted by shlomo



He asked what you think they'll do. Not for a guarantee.

:D

Thanks, but after 15? posts in this thread it is obvious 3D will not answer a simple question, which of course is the topic. :(



..............juanni

[juanni]

Originally posted by TheJokker


name something big that will result by voting for some obscure 3rd party candidate? we know they will not be elected so they will have no chance of advancing any agenda.

"your" way has no effect at all on the problems our country is facing and as in 2008 actually results in making matters much, much worse. by contrast "our" way has a reasonable probability of "beginning" meaningful reform. before you can "finish" you must first begin.

"our" plan has a real probability of working; your plan is guaranteed to fail. that's the difference between you an me.

Yes, Jokker you just keep on voting for the party of Nothing Will Change, which of course is just what you want, nothing to change.

I will continue voting for change, but until more voters join me, well of course... nothing will change. :wink:


But change is a coming, from not changing the status quo it will be sovereign default or hyperinflation and accompanied with gobs of civil strife.
We may not have long to wait.





.............juanni

[davedude]

If you have no clue, how do you determine who gets your vote?

http://gopleader.gov/default.aspx

http://www.americaspeakingout.com/

http://republicanwhip.house.gov/

http://www.gop.gov/

http://policy.house.gov/

http://repcloakroom.house.gov/news/...mentTypeID=1501

http://www.house.gov/budget_republi...1_gopbudget.pdf

http://gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/...t_Jobs_Plan.pdf

http://www.gop.gov/energy

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

http://republicans.financialservice...d=601&Itemid=42




He asked what you think they'll do. Not for a guarantee.




http://gopleader.gov/default.aspx

http://www.americaspeakingout.com/

http://republicanwhip.house.gov/

http://www.gop.gov/

http://policy.house.gov/

http://repcloakroom.house.gov/news/...mentTypeID=1501

http://www.house.gov/budget_republi...1_gopbudget.pdf

http://gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/...t_Jobs_Plan.pdf

http://www.gop.gov/energy

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

http://republicans.financialservice...d=601&Itemid=42

Dave Dude

[shlomo]

Originally posted by davedude


http://gopleader.gov/default.aspx

http://www.americaspeakingout.com/

http://republicanwhip.house.gov/

http://www.gop.gov/

http://policy.house.gov/

http://repcloakroom.house.gov/news/...mentTypeID=1501

http://www.house.gov/budget_republi...1_gopbudget.pdf

http://gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/...t_Jobs_Plan.pdf

http://www.gop.gov/energy

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

http://republicans.financialservice...d=601&Itemid=42









http://gopleader.gov/default.aspx

http://www.americaspeakingout.com/

http://republicanwhip.house.gov/

http://www.gop.gov/

http://policy.house.gov/

http://repcloakroom.house.gov/news/...mentTypeID=1501

http://www.house.gov/budget_republi...1_gopbudget.pdf

http://gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/...t_Jobs_Plan.pdf

http://www.gop.gov/energy

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

http://republicans.financialservice...d=601&Itemid=42

Dave Dude

Okay. Somebody else does your thinkin' for you, and tells you which way to march.

Got it.

[juanni]

Originally posted by shlomo


Okay. Somebody else does your thinkin' for you, and tells you which way to march.

Got it.

Yep. :sad:




....................juanni

[davedude]

Okay. Somebody else does your thinkin' for you, and tells you which way to march. Got it.

Due diligence Shlomo, due diligence. You were not capable of inferring that? I am not surprised, really.

The links I provided are the BEST CLUES AVAILABLE TODAY on what the republicans might do.

Can't get any better.

And I know what juanni is doing, shlomo. Thanks for your help anyways.

Dave Dude

[shlomo]

Originally posted by davedude


Due diligence Shlomo, due diligence. You were not capable of inferring that? I am not surprised, really.

And I know what juanni is doing, shlomo. Thanks for your help anyways.

Dave Dude

I made the inference a long time ago. Just kinda shocking to get an actual admission.

I appreciate your honesty, Dave.

[Temp]

The system of government which has evolved in the U.S. is the basis for all of the problems this country has,..and the system of government will never fix the problems.

All you can count on is that American culture, as we have known it all of our lives, is going to end,..but that doesn't mean that the world will end.

American citizens will simply learn to adopt a *much* more austere lifestyle,.... and that fact can't be voted away.

Harry Browne summed it up a few decades ago and if you haven't already accepted his wisdom,.....it's time.

“When you know that you're capable of dealing with whatever comes, you have the only security the world has to offer”

[martin35]

“When you know that you're capable of dealing with whatever comes, you have the only security the world has to offer” ,,,quote via Temp by Harry Browne
That's a very good quote and holds some truth.
Stoicism is a useful attitude, abject resignation less so,,,, Brain leaked by martin35
I know I will eventually die,,,, that really piss's me off and evokes a instinct to survive,,,, that may be the only primary overabundance I was endowed with,,,, along with a undeniable manly countenance.

Long time no hear temp whose house you been hauntin'?

[101ABN327]

Originally posted by juanni
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
It is amusing that the biggist GOP cheerleaders and "we gotta vote for em", members, Jokker, 3D (Dammit Dave Dude), Munster (missing in action), Cowbilly,, etc....

refuse to or can't post up a simple, direct answer to the topic.
Now is the time to make prognostications.
Assuming the repubs grab the House and possibly the Senate what BIG, SIGNIFICANT bills do you think they will go to the mat for?

Instead it is the usual complaining about the evil demos, marxists, socialists, liberals, Obama or attempts at determining what was the real "hidden" reason why I posted this topic. :rolleyes:

They have become just like our politicians, ducking and avoiding an honest direct answer and attempting to steer the topic in all directions other than the original one.

3D, was great with 12 posts WITHOUT any predictions what so ever,,,only to finally say "he is not a fortune teller". :rofl::rofl::rofl:
Well 3D, if you can't make any predictions, why are you making 12 posts in a thread asking for SPECFIC predictions.

Ditto Jokker with his 10 posts of absolutely nothingness as far as the topic. Did manage to proclaim his love for Paul Ryan and his "roadmap" though. :love:



...............juanni

If they inact ZERO laws WE WIN! I'm for repealing a bunch of the BS laws already on the books and closing the doors on a bunch of useless government agencies like EPA, DHS, ATF, etc...

[juanni]

Originally posted by 101ABN327


If they inact ZERO laws WE WIN! I'm for repealing a bunch of the BS laws already on the books and closing the doors on a bunch of useless government agencies like EPA, DHS, ATF, etc...

Well if you want to call gridlocked into unsustainable spending and defaulting on the debt, hyperinflation and civil strife winning. :uhoh:

Yeah, everyone here says they are for cutting govt, but so far no one thinks a new republican congress will do so.

And you?



..............juanni

[martin35]

Without a veto proof legislature a Republican win can only result in a status quo. for two years.

[juanni]

Originally posted by martin35
Without a veto proof legislature a Republican win can only result in a status quo. for two years.

Hey Martin that condition was noted 145 posts ago.

I am not asking what will they get enacted into law, I am asking what conservative bills they will get out a repub controlled legislature. ;)

Trunicated to, no excuses for not making it that far.



.............juanni

[martin35]

Hey Martin that condition was noted 145 posts ago.
And now for the second time you have a definitive answer one up wind, one down wind.

[jeffrey]

Originally posted by shlomo

If you have no clue, how do you determine who gets your vote? Is it simply determined by who the candidate is not?

He asked what you think they'll do. Not for a guarantee.

Does juanni have a new sidekick?:rolleyes:

Is this like Dabble and that other guy, whatshisname? :eek:



Anyway, this has been pretty well hashed out and no one can give the answer juanni needs, so...

Let's talk about which is better for wtshtf, 9mm or 45acp?:shades: :biggrin:

[shlomo]

Originally posted by jeffrey


Does juanni have a new sidekick?:rolleyes:


Caught me. Here is a recent pic of the two of us:

http://sidoxia.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/minime.jpg

I'm the good-looking one.

BTW, neither 9mm or .45acp can hold a candle to sharks with "lasers".