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View Full Version : French Revolver - 250,000 rounds ?


dakdak
May 26, 2010, 13:42
I just read that the Manurhin .357 revolver, made in France, can withstand 250,000 full charge .357 loads before an overhaul is needed.

Is this true ?
Are these revolvers really that good ?

Since the importation ban still stands, how does one obtain one of these puppies (legally of course) ?

250,000 rounds is a "WOW" as far as I am concerned.

Retired Bum
May 26, 2010, 15:34
I couldn't tell you if the Manurhin could take that kind of round count or not. Sounds like the French are boasting to me. You know, like all of the wars that they have won...

What importation ban are you referring to? I haven't heard of any bans against any European nations in regards to handguns that meet the GCA68 requirements.

And so it goes.


The Retired One

dakdak
May 26, 2010, 15:41
I just read an article on the GIGN of France. They use them as one of their sidearms. The article was in a SWAT + WEAPONS type publication. It is a Harris Publication.

I bought the magazine to see the article on the Mossberg 590A1. Then I saw the other article and read what they said about that .357 mag.

I do not know why it would not be imported. The last time I saw a revolver of that brand in the United States was in the 1980's and I believe it was in 9mm...to match the short lived experiments by U.S. manufacturers with 9mm revolvers.

richbug
May 26, 2010, 17:01
The French said the Chauchat was a top notch firearm too.

Deltaten
May 26, 2010, 17:22
I recall when these were touted in SGN. As I recall, they were waaaay pricy! From the looks, they appeared to be fairly stout.

250k rds is not an unrealistic figger. I suppose I could estimate a round-count on my 1973-4 m66 and come damm'd close ta 65+k. Only repairs were a hammer/trigger set at about the halfway mark and a firing-pin "nose" and rivit a few years later. A set of wolf springs and still tight enuff ta work proper and get the job done! :D

bulletslap
May 26, 2010, 17:32
Most French Firearms are well built out of good materials, they are just kinda weird.

yarro
May 26, 2010, 19:07
They only shoot Norma 158gr ammo, which is hot stuff as I have shot two boxes of it that I have shot. They replaced S&W revolvers that were not holding up to the ~55k rounds shot through each gun a day. There guns are purpose built for them. Reports on the .38 revolvers that they still suffer from cylinder endplay just like S&W .38s. The revolver Super Redhawk .44 Mag heavy. All are very accurate with probably the best trigger pull of any series production double action revolver made. They are very expensive. The .38s aren't hard to obtain if you want to pay to have it imported. The .357s are harder to get a hold of. They still need regular armor maintenance to keep from breaking under use or suffering in the accuraccy department. Springs, firing pins, shims for endshake...

Though wonderfully made no one imports them because they are expensive for what they are. A used one runs around 2 grand here. A S&W custom shop gun would run half that and be as accurate with as good a trigger and be lighter. The newest versions no longer have forged frames, they are investment cast like Rugers. There are many photos of the French using them with scopes and bipods on the barrel.

The rest of the world's elite use autos as a side arm. Easily suppressed. Maintain them. Replace them when they wear out. Very French solution to a French problem.

-yarro

yarro
May 26, 2010, 19:09
I meant to say each year not day. Only American gun writers claim to shoot that much in one day...

-yarro

dakdak
May 27, 2010, 12:03
Once Again the FalFiles comes through with the info.

I guess I am not going to see one of those in my collection anytime soon. At 2,000 or so, plus the search effort and so forth I will take a pass and maintain what I have.

Thanks everybody and especially to "yarro" for that background info.

SWOHFAL
May 28, 2010, 00:27
The MR-73 is the Manurhin revolver you're speaking of, which is a modded S&W pattern design. They make variants based on the Ruger Security Six also. The MR-73 is still in production, last I heard, but the easiest way to get one is to contact the Australian importer and arrange for him to export it to you - apparently a few folks have done this.

Bulletman
May 28, 2010, 01:22
Originally posted by bulletslap
Most French Firearms are well built out of good materials, they are just kinda weird.




That may be true, but how would we know? The French never lasted long enough to fire 250k rounds form anything in any major conflict they were in. As for design of weapons, how many of you out there are shooting French designed or built weapons today? I have a pretty good gun collecton and nothing in it is French.

An as richbug has articulated, "The French said the Chauchat was a top notch firearm too. " :wink:

SWOHFAL
May 28, 2010, 02:20
Originally posted by Bulletman





That may be true, but how would we know? The French never lasted long enough to fire 250k rounds form anything in any major conflict they were in. As for design of weapons, how many of you out there are shooting French designed or built weapons today? I have a pretty good gun collecton and nothing in it is French.

An as richbug has articulated, "The French said the Chauchat was a top notch firearm too. " :wink:

Maybe they just passed one gun down the line until everyone fired a shot.

bulletslap
May 28, 2010, 09:20
Originally posted by Bulletman





That may be true, but how would we know? The French never lasted long enough to fire 250k rounds form anything in any major conflict they were in. As for design of weapons, how many of you out there are shooting French designed or built weapons today? I have a pretty good gun collecton and nothing in it is French.

An as richbug has articulated, "The French said the Chauchat was a top notch firearm too. " :wink:

I have 4 French Long guns, a Manufrance Ideal, a Manufrance Robust, a Darne, and lastly a MAC. These guns are from 85-60 years old and I have shot the piss out of them. :smile:

Bulletman
May 28, 2010, 17:27
Originally posted by bulletslap


I have 4 French Long guns, a Manufrance Ideal, a Manufrance Robust, a Darne, and lastly a MAC. These guns are from 85-60 years old and I have shot the piss out of them. :smile:


WHAT??? No Lebells? Hey, glad you got all the piss out of your French firearms. They say it's very corosive to the bores.

richbug
May 28, 2010, 18:45
Originally posted by bulletslap


I have 4 French Long guns, a Manufrance Ideal, a Manufrance Robust, a Darne, and lastly a MAC. These guns are from 85-60 years old and I have shot the piss out of them. :smile:

Glad to hear someone finally shot them, rather than throwing them down and running away.

Tsm002
May 30, 2010, 18:55
Originally posted by Bulletman





That may be true, but how would we know? The French never lasted long enough to fire 250k rounds form anything in any major conflict they were in. As for design of weapons, how many of you out there are shooting French designed or built weapons today? I have a pretty good gun collecton and nothing in it is French.

An as richbug has articulated, "The French said the Chauchat was a top notch firearm too. " :wink:

I use and abuse an older MAS 49/56 in 7.5mm cal all the time. Same with a sporterized mas 36. I have ones that are never fired, either, and ones in between that are semi-sporterized.

ALL are incredibly reliable as long as no silly American has screwed them up trying to convert them to .308 from the original caliber. The MAS 49 series of rifles has an excellent track record in some of the most inhospitable environments the world has to offer through numerous campaigns. With only 6-ish moving parts and a receiver built like a freaking tank it's pretty hard to screw one up. The most common bitches about these guns come from the century .308 conversions that were poorly done OR from the use of soft primer commercial ammo causing doubling, easily fixed by blunting the FP a bit and irrelevant from a service standpoint.

The MAS 36 action is still in use today by the French Foreign Legion and French military in the FRF2 sniping rifle. The MAS 49/56 was in service for almost 50 years, being relegated to second line service with the adoption of the FAMAS in the Desert Storm era. The Mas 49/56 is still in active use along with the MSE stock and MSE upgrades as a DMR in .308 (rechambered by COMPETENT military armorers) with supposedly excellent performance. Many a competition in Europe has also been won with a MAS 36 or 49 action.

The French military and foreign legion has been actively involved in far more conflicts in Africa than most other nations over the last 50 years, especially North Africa. The MAS 49/56 series rifles, the FRF1 sniping rifle and the MAT-49 SMG all proved to be incredibly reliable and capable weapons in those environments. This is a lesson we're just learning in these last 10 or so years as we have begun deploying to arid desert regions where dust and wildly varying temperatures have played havoc with some of our weapon systems. The MAS 49/56 is so ridiculously simple it just keeps on chugging. If the AR/stoner mechanism is a simple DI mechanism, then the MAS 49/56 mechanism is an even simpler DI mechanism. The thing can run on little to no lube for extended periods of time, the mags are way overbuilt and so are the receivers. Same with the MAT 49; overbuilt and very KISS in its design. We don't see many MAT 49's because frankly they're subguns and most of them are still in use in the PDW role or for gendarme use alongside the FAMAS.

We don't see the FAMAS here because of US regulations. GIAT exported a VERY few semi FAMAS rifles here and they didn't sell very well because they were "french" and because the import of them was cut off RIGHT after it started. Last semi FAMAS from GIAT that I saw go up sold for over 12k. VERY rare beast over here. But all reports I've heard from the current revision are VERY good and it's been deployed in numerous conflicts worldwide, unlike other weapon systems that people cream themselves over all the time like the 6.8 and 6.5mm. The FAMAS has a MUCH better track record than the HK416 series that mall ninjas are creaming themselves over right now, but hey, it's French, so it's gotta suck, right?

I suspect that the biggest reason a lot of us aren't shooting french weapons is because of the stigma surrounding the french military, something which is frankly bigoted and undeserved. Import export regs are also probably a HUGE factor in this. Some little known facts about the French military:

*Third largest in Nato
*Largest in the European Union
*Third largest nuclear force in world behind only the US and Russia
*Third highest military expenditures in the world
*Conscription used until 1996, placing a high value on the defense of France, French citizens abroad and on French territories
*Has been on constant deployment in more countries and for longer times than most other NATO military forces total

People also fault the French for being "wussies". If you actually look at France critically, you'll see that it's one of the few EU countries with a right to bear arms in its governing documents. Up until the mid-90's you could even legally get full auto there on a variance through a process MUCH easier than we can. Even now as far as the EU goes they have VERY loose firearms laws. The French nation as a whole is not that different from ours; they have serious immigration problems, a history that is full of revolution and patriotic thoughts, a populace that is very often against larger governments (France was a HUGE critic of the Euro and the EU before caving in) and a HUGE independent streak (Pulled out of NATO for a short time over objections of independence, military cartridges were NOT brought in line with NATO due to a belief in performance and economy over NATO conformity, even now their issue 9mm rounds load pressures in excess of NATO 9mm; odd thing is the French modifications made to the MP5 and M9 series weapons to handle these more powerful loads which are often AP are now becoming standard in normal manufacture as more and more nations see the value in simply using hotter 9mm AP loads instead of adopting a whole new PDW caliber)...and a huge emphasis on freedom and liberty. Criticizing one's government is a pastime in France just as it is here.

Frankly, blaming France as a whole because of a minority of people is the exact same as other countries painting the US as the great satan because we have a few idiots who don't value their freedom here and will sell this nation down the river.

The French are also still using quite a few of their older weapons and, like many other nations, are forced to destroy them because of binding treaties. Hell, we destroy a huge number of weapons each year as well. Whoopee.

So...they've lasted long enough to shoot over 250k rounds...check.

Weapon design? There are piles of the guns still in use all over. Also, just because you can't get a given design over here doesn't mean it's garbage. It has more to do with import/export regs than anything else. There are very few full auto transferable AKM's available in the USA. I guess that means they're garbage guns that just have a crappy design. Ditto for transferable m4's. Must be a terrible weapon with no utility at all. And those m249's? Man, haven't seen very many of those being shot by falfilers members. They must suck along with the M240's.

:P

Keep it up, though. It keeps the price of these things down. Honestly, the MAS 49/56 in its original caliber is easily the equal to the FN49 and the M14. Easily. Accuracy wise, it has serious potential that can easily outstrip the M14 series simply due to its operating system, something that's been proven with the MSE series of modifcations. Why isn't anyone else using them? Because everyone has their own designs and the rifles were already in house. The FN49 is slobbered over here, yet has FAR less of an operational history than the MAS 49/56 series.

Those of us that look past the veil of bigotry rely on the France hate in order to keep the French ammo and guns cheap. If the secret gets out too much you'll see mint, in wrap MAS 49/56's selling for a hell of a lot more than 400-500 bucks. So just keep going :)

Bulletman
May 31, 2010, 00:23
Originally posted by Tsm002


I use and abuse an older MAS 49/56 in 7.5mm cal all the time. Same with a sporterized mas 36. I have ones that are never fired, either, and ones in between that are semi-sporterized.

Sounds like you will never run out with all of those "unfired extras." Good for a lot of "use and abuse."



*Third largest in Nato

Well, let's see. The French were not even in NATO from 1966 to Mar of 2009. What is that? Something like 43 years or so?
Not a whole lot was offered during that time, was it?



So...they've lasted long enough to shoot over 250k rounds...check.

Acknowledged! But from the same firearm? Uncheck.



Those of us that look past the veil of bigotry rely on the France hate in order to keep the French ammo and guns cheap. If the secret gets out too much you'll see mint, in wrap MAS 49/56's selling for a hell of a lot more than 400-500 bucks. So just keep going :)

I am sure you are safe with your secret. ENJOY!

Bigotry? I lived in france for over two years. Learned to speak the language well enough to get by. Made many friends whom I still keep in touch with. Listened to them aggresively criticise their Gov. Saw the French Government dissolved and reformed nine (9) times while I was there. You don't need to defend the French to me. But thanks for trying!

Tsm002
May 31, 2010, 12:37
Good to know!

Now if only the price of the ammo would drop...that's the only thing that really gets me. I wonder how easy it would be to do a good .308 conversion, especially on one of the bolt guns...couldn't be too difficult. Then again, .308 isn't that much cheaper than 7.5 french these days. Which is lame.

Bulletman
May 31, 2010, 23:11
Originally posted by Tsm002
Good to know!

Now if only the price of the ammo would drop...that's the only thing that really gets me. I wonder how easy it would be to do a good .308 conversion, especially on one of the bolt guns...couldn't be too difficult. Then again, .308 isn't that much cheaper than 7.5 french these days. Which is lame.


Tsm002, do you reload? I suppose you do. Are dies available for your 7.5 "French Calibers?" Not flaming you, I really never have noticed. Might be the way to keep shooting is by loading your own.

Sure you have done this or considered doing it. Either way, best of luck with finding your ammo.:smile:

Still interested in knowing if you have any LeBells in your collection?

thunderchicken
June 01, 2010, 10:57
Originally posted by bulletslap


I have 4 French Long guns, a Manufrance Ideal, a Manufrance Robust, a Darne, and lastly a MAC. These guns are from 85-60 years old and I have shot the piss out of them. :smile:

nice guns and utterly under appreciated

Heat
June 05, 2010, 11:36
Originally posted by Tsm002
Frankly, blaming France as a whole because of a minority of people is the exact same as other countries painting the US as the great satan because we have a few idiots who don't value their freedom here and will sell this nation down the river.
Criticizing one's government is a pastime in France just as it is here


Good post!

Brian in MN
June 06, 2010, 00:17
Big plus one on the 49/56. If they had designed it to look like an FAL rather than a K-43 they really would have had something. ...20 round mag and pistol grip. Only the French would put the magazine catch on the magazine. :rolleyes: I have never had a jam and am consistently amazed at how well I can shoot with those big clunky iron sights.