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View Full Version : Jesus Christ, SIG, what the hell are you doing?


Manedwolf
January 21, 2010, 12:21
http://www.armstalk.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/l_1600_1200_B1AE5A1F-E000-42FE-B45E-485430D0DC09.jpeg

That is at SHOT. At their booth. Apparently, there were a lot of them, too.

Alien1
January 21, 2010, 12:44
not bad lookin but only without that black duhoomathingy under the bbl forward of the triggerguard. Nice 2tone nice grips decent size.

Sig220
January 21, 2010, 12:52
Hell, Mane.............thought you was mad at me whooping up on 411twit!!!

Continue........

Ssarge
January 21, 2010, 12:52
That's a tactical light. They make a "heavy duty" version as well. WTF would you want a SA .380 to be any heavier than absouletly necessary? :confused:

Outlaw Patriot
January 21, 2010, 15:06
I've been doing some searching, and supposedly, their booth at shot show was 1 226 E2 (new snap on grips that dont need screws and new controls for no apparent reason) 1 p220, and everything else was these blinged out abortions of the offspring of a sig and a 1911.

Its not necessarily a bad design, in and of itself, but it really is sad that sig has strayed so far from its roots as a no nonsense no frills maker of excellent firearms that were always accurate and reliable.

Quality control goes downhill, bling goes up, sig has been Kimberized.

B Wood
January 24, 2010, 07:55
Cohen and the former gang at Kimber destroyed SIG.

I have steadliy been selling off my SIG's as a result...and replacing them with H&K.

the past 5 years have been the worst for SIG.

I am done with them.

Just have three more West German Sig's to get rid of and a 556 and I am out of them.

That pistol at the SHOT looks like SHIT

Outlaw Patriot
January 24, 2010, 09:49
I'd hold on to your west germans if I were you, those are the "real" sigs.

I have a w german 226, a made in germany x-5 tactical, and an early production 556 with swiss parts that is quite accurate and boringly reliable.


I will not be buying any more of the "new" sigs. The old ones are great, I think the x-5 series is still held to a higher standard, and well, I think I just got lucky with the 556, but I won't be getting any more.

Manedwolf
January 24, 2010, 11:27
Same here. I have a West German 220 that will make boringly small groups all day, and a German-made 232, the one that is what a small .380 ought to be, actually, it's what the PPK should have been. ;)

SIGs used to be the equivalent of a Bentley. Sort of blocky, but incredibly well-made, a whisper of "This is REAL quality." Now they're more like a blackout Cutlass with 22" spinner rims and Wal-Mart speakers buzzing away in the back deck.

Oh well. I will not be buying any new ones, that's for sure. Old West Germans, sure, or if I ever get lucky and stumble across a 210, but that's it.

Also, as a graphics designer, the layout of the logo on the grip is crap. The two lines of text have no relation to each other or the oval, it's like someone just plopped an oval in the CAD designer, typed SIG, hit return, typed SAUER, and sent it off to CNC. Like their usual half-line descent of the second word just wouldn't fit, and they could care less. It doesn't have any connection to the descending line of the blinged-out checkering, either, or to the gun itself...it's crooked in relation to the bottom of the grip, and doesn't align with anything at any similar angle on the gun. That's one of the worst logo placements I've ever seen.

So they apparently aren't bothering to employ anyone with any design skills or experience, either.

Originally posted by Sig220
Hell, Mane.............thought you was mad at me whooping up on 411twit!!!

Continue........ :D

Squint
January 24, 2010, 17:23
Originally posted by B Wood
Cohen and the former gang at Kimber destroyed SIG.

I have steadliy been selling off my SIG's as a result...and replacing them with H&K.

the past 5 years have been the worst for SIG.

I am done with them.

Just have three more West German Sig's to get rid of and a 556 and I am out of them.

That pistol at the SHOT looks like SHIT

So, the new pimpish American branch of SIGARMS is so bad that it creates time warps which do damage to your 30 year old West German made Sigs. That is pretty bad. I need a West German made 226 to go with my 220. Should I just send you and address? I will pay the shipping.

HK went Pimp long before sig did.

Manedwolf
January 24, 2010, 19:27
Originally posted by Squint
HK went Pimp long before sig did.

Same thing there. My P7 is amazing, most intuitive (for me) gun ever made, and I can consistently get tiny groups with it one-handed...and the gas system makes doubletaps easy even with +P+ in it. Gunfighter's gun, for sure! But I would never buy a new HK.

Outlaw Patriot
January 24, 2010, 22:10
I think it isn't just a couple brands, I think its a general trend in firearms and other things to be moving towards a more short sighted bussiness model, all about how the company looks on paper financially and not about reputation or really making a superior product.

Corners get cut on all sorts of stuff, and quality control gets worse and worse. They just don't make em like they used to.

DK
January 24, 2010, 23:37
Piling On....

Yep, gimme a West German folded steel slide Sig any day. These new fangled ones just don't do it for me.

DK

dirtyrice
January 25, 2010, 07:07
*shrug* I think most sigs look way too blocky. But I don't own a sig or an h&k anything so I wouldn't know. I know my brother likes his hk45 alot. Mp5's are really accurate.

bykerhd
January 25, 2010, 10:43
Can't say I care for that SIG in the photo. But, I fail to see how or why my opinion of whatever SIG is building now would impact on what I currently own.
Why get rid of what you already have and KNOW to be very fine ?
Buy used or refurbished SIGs, if you don't like what they make now.
It's a no-brainer as far as I am concerned.

I think probably all of the manufacturers have gone through some sort of "Head up their Butts" episodes, or even periods. We force them to alter their schemes/strategies by choosing to buy their products, or not.
They either get the message, or go out of business. Simple.:wink:

dakdak
January 25, 2010, 15:09
I remember seeing a YouTube piece from those two guys in Kentucky or Tennessee that test guns and ammo and have their own little channel as well as a large wholesale/retail gun business. If I remember their site and names I will post it.

These two guys sell a lot of SIGs and heavily promote the SIG product line.
At one point the two owners/testers were talking about the SIG556 and how the SIG people asked them about the final design before releasing it to the public. According to the vendors, at that point SIG planned to sell the SIG 556 first and foremost in a configuration as close to the original as possible. They, the wholesalers/retailers, told SIG that was a bad idea. The vendors said..."If it's not tactical it's not practical".

Then, they gleefully said SIG took their advice and hung rails as well as an adjustable stock on the SIG 556 in hopes of selling a lot of SIG 556 rifles to vendors like them.

Sooo...I guess money talks.

RomanLeader
January 25, 2010, 21:20
Item on display looks like a toy. A very deadly toy!

Outlaw Patriot
January 25, 2010, 23:45
Originally posted by dakdak
I remember seeing a YouTube piece from those two guys in Kentucky or Tennessee that test guns and ammo and have their own little channel as well as a large wholesale/retail gun business. If I remember their site and names I will post it.

These two guys sell a lot of SIGs and heavily promote the SIG product line.
At one point the two owners/testers were talking about the SIG556 and how the SIG people asked them about the final design before releasing it to the public. According to the vendors, at that point SIG planned to sell the SIG 556 first and foremost in a configuration as close to the original as possible. They, the wholesalers/retailers, told SIG that was a bad idea. The vendors said..."If it's not tactical it's not practical".

Then, they gleefully said SIG took their advice and hung rails as well as an adjustable stock on the SIG 556 in hopes of selling a lot of SIG 556 rifles to vendors like them.

Sooo...I guess money talks.

I personally am very glad my 556 has a lighter weight lower than the 551 that takes ar mags with a straight in instead of rockntilt mag well. I am also quite fond of the magpul prs stock I put on mine.

These are all improvements to the original in my mind.

The lack of decent iron sights, cheap finish, and atrocious fore end are another matter.

Manedwolf
January 26, 2010, 09:42
Originally posted by Outlaw Patriot

The lack of decent iron sights, cheap finish, and atrocious fore end are another matter.

That's what lost me as a customer when it first came out. That heavy cheesegrater foreend that made the rifle tip alarmingly towards the floor when picked up, WAY too nose-heavy, especially when I've got a longer K2 that's perfectly balanced even in one hand...

Outlaw Patriot
January 27, 2010, 01:32
Originally posted by Manedwolf


That's what lost me as a customer when it first came out. That heavy cheesegrater foreend that made the rifle tip alarmingly towards the floor when picked up, WAY too nose-heavy, especially when I've got a longer K2 that's perfectly balanced even in one hand...

551 for end + magpul prs stock, and its very well balenced, even just the ctr instead of the prs and its still very nice.

Mine is very accurate (just shot a 2.5 inch 10 shot group at 300 yards recently, I expect that to be repeatable) and 100% reliable.

I mostly like the 556 because it just feels better to hold and shoulder than an ar for me.

dedkin
January 30, 2010, 16:49
I came across this post researching the sig product line. Although i am not going to post an opinion on their product i will comment on the original topic line of this post. It is my opinion that the use of ( Jesus Christ ) to open this topic line is not appropriate in any forum and my be offensive to people,myself included. Thanks ,dedkin.

younggun
January 30, 2010, 22:23
Originally posted by B Wood
Cohen and the former gang at Kimber destroyed SIG.

I have steadliy been selling off my SIG's as a result...and replacing them with H&K.

the past 5 years have been the worst for SIG.

I am done with them.

Just have three more West German Sig's to get rid of and a 556 and I am out of them.

That pistol at the SHOT looks like SHIT

Let me know what you got, I might take them off your hands.

B Wood
February 06, 2010, 07:28
I am down to 4 Sigs.

West German P228 with night sights. Excellent condition

West German P225 DAO - grey box.

P239

556 HOLO - NIB

Funny to see the comments on H&K going pimp....I have yet to see an H&K titanium, or pink finish, or beavertails on guns that don't need them. H&K's remind me more of how Sig USED to be...mainly concerned with producing 100% reliable guns such as the USP series, P2000 series, P30 series, etc.

Currently own 3 H&K USP Compacts, 2 - P2000SK's, as well as a H&K mp5. The older West German Sigs were vey much along the same lines....but just find myself more of an H&K guy these days

Rudolf
March 07, 2010, 02:13
I'm gonna be the lone gunman here but I am happy with my 2009 226 and 220 with beaver tail and rails.

reliable....super damn MESSED UP SMOKED UP SOCIAL INJUSTICE ACCURATE TO BOOT.

plus with the .22 kits for it...it's cheap to shoot..I love it....

I'm sorry everyone has had issues with theirs but I am happy with mines...and sig CS...

easily the cheaperest firearm to get a threaded barrel for my cans....it's been a pleasure shooting suppressed with the 220 and 226...

NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER

moses
March 07, 2010, 17:09
I have 2 new 2009 228's, a 229, 2022 and a 220 all function great! I also have a few older West German Sigs that also work great!

To say you are selling your older Sigs because you think the new ones suck doesn't make very much sense.

HK for men who don't know the difference.

B Wood
March 07, 2010, 19:35
You misunderstood moses

My older Sigs have been great. They are from a time when Sig made serious pistols. I found that Sig customer service on other issues was poor at best, and also found myself looking at Sig products that simply do not make any sense to me...they have been "kimberized"

During the time when I saw Cohen changing Sig, I also found H&K getting very serious about their weapons....so I largely switched. MUCH happier with H&K.

I still have my old Sigs...and most likely will keep them...but I am not thrilled with Sig management or direction these days.

oleblu72
March 09, 2010, 12:22
Originally posted by dedkin
I came across this post researching the sig product line. Although i am not going to post an opinion on their product i will comment on the original topic line of this post. It is my opinion that the use of ( Jesus Christ ) to open this topic line is not appropriate in any forum and my be offensive to people,myself included. Thanks ,dedkin.

You beat me to it Dedkin that was a poor choice of words ,lots of other words in the English language that could have been used.


Mark

Manedwolf
March 11, 2010, 15:24
Originally posted by oleblu72


You beat me to it Dedkin that was a poor choice of words ,lots of other words in the English language that could have been used.


Mark

You can be offended, but you don't have a right not to be offended.

That's a widespread exclamation in popular culture and elicits no notice on any form of media ratings by anyone.

When you write a thread, you can use other words, then. :)

moses
March 11, 2010, 15:30
While I would have used other words myself, I agree that you have the right to use those words if you want.

If people don't like it just don't read it.

Last I checked it wasn't forbodden to use the words "Jesus Christ"

Jesus Christ BTW is the way, the truth and the light!:bow:

oleblu72
March 11, 2010, 15:34
Its your right this is the United States of America, at least until the Chinese repo her.

Mark

MACV
March 11, 2010, 17:28
I like my SIG pistols. I'd compare the quality of them to any other gun on the market. Im still looking for a used 220. Hard to find around here.

tombirdman
March 28, 2010, 14:58
Originally posted by Rudolf
I'm gonna be the lone gunman here but I am happy with my 2009 226 and 220 with beaver tail and rails.

reliable....super damn MESSED UP SMOKED UP SOCIAL INJUSTICE ACCURATE TO BOOT.

plus with the .22 kits for it...it's cheap to shoot..I love it....

I'm sorry everyone has had issues with theirs but I am happy with mines...and sig CS...

easily the cheaperest firearm to get a threaded barrel for my cans....it's been a pleasure shooting suppressed with the 220 and 226...

NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER

:cry:

I have no complaints, what so ever, with my Sigs and HKs. Sorry they aren't American made but, I guess, in a way they are.

I have a Sig556 SWAT, Sig220R, Sig229 DAK R, HK P7M8, HK USP C 45acp,
HK SL8-1 and I think they are 100% perfect !

Also have a buch of FN products and they are also great !

There are really a bunch of great guns available.
We are all really lucky !

Tom

:bigangel:

.

JohnnyReb
March 28, 2010, 21:14
I am Sig-less!

Oh happy day! :tongue:

evan price
March 30, 2010, 04:19
I saw that exact same P238 at my local gun porn distributor Sunday, and my exact words to the counterman were "What kind of hillbilly-fu** has his own CNC but can't make grips that look any better than that sh*t?"
I thought it was some sort of used gun traded in after it had been Bubbafied with some grips he made up in the tool crib after his shift was over.

Every day, my German folded-slide Sigs just look better and better. Even the 1990's P239 still lights my fire. Would love to find a P228 sometime, but not got the coin for it just now.

tombirdman
March 30, 2010, 07:46
[QUOTE]Originally posted by B Wood
[B]You misunderstood moses

My older Sigs have been great. They are from a time when Sig made serious pistols. I found that Sig customer service on other issues was poor at best, and also found myself looking at Sig products that simply do not make any sense to me...they have been "kimberized"

During the time when I saw Cohen changing Sig, I also found H&K getting very serious about their weapons....so I largely switched. MUCH happier with H&K.

I still have my old Sigs...and most likely will keep them...but I am not thrilled with Sig management or direction these days.


KIMBERIZED = IMPROVED - I LIKE ALL KIMBERS !