1911 current status with Army

[Shootability]

Is the Army reissuing 1911s to combat units? Are they new guns or old ones? I keep hearing of contracts for new 1911s and parts but they are never confirmed. What is the real deal and where can I verify it?

[filman]

Do not know about the Army but a buddy of mine still the Corps had his
M9 replaced with a 1911.





filman

[TerryN]

Maybe in the sandbox, although the problem would be that there are no parts, mags, or ammo still in the system. Also, none of the current crop of Armament types would know how to repair them.

The only 1911A1s I see here in Korea belong to the ROK Army, and are stored in US arms rooms.

[Old Sarge]

I saw a couple of them in 2004 over in Iraq. But they were not in the hands of regular line troops. As far as I know there is not movement afoot to go back to the 1911A1. The Army killed the triles that would have been the best posability for it and ordered more M9s.

Old Sarge

[Ssarge]

I went to RangeMaster school at the Sig Arms Academy with a Marine Gunny from Okinawa. He ran the MEU's range and they used re-conditioned 1911A1s for some speciality troops. He said they were shooting around 3 million rounds a year through them, and at the time the Marines were looking for a commercial replacement. I think they are still looking...
As for the Army, Delta Force is the only unit I am aware of that issues a 1911 type pistol, and theirs are commercial, match tuned pistols.

[chet]

Originally posted by solvability
Is the Army reissuing 1911s to combat units? Are they new guns or old ones? I keep hearing of contracts for new 1911s and parts but they are never confirmed. Whjat is the real deal and where can I verify it?
The Marines have been issuing the MEU(SOC) .45 to Force, now MSOB's, since the late 80's. They started with selected GI 1911A1's already in the inventory and had the Precision Weapons people at Quantico work them over. Later, they replaced worn out units with Springfield's given the same treatment.
filman- I am not aware of any units that already have M9's in the TO&E being replaced with MEU(SOC)'s. Maybe your buddy made it into an MSOB?

I was at Security Bn, CamPen when they switched from 45's to 9's back in 93/94 and it was a sad frickin day, I can tell you that. What is sadness? Two Lance Coolies out behind the armory hammering WWII era mag's flat with ball peen hammers and original wooden crates re-filled with Remington Rands,Colts and an Ithaca or two being shipped off to some place to get torched in half.

Made me want to vomit.
Chet

[Sgt_Gold]

There is zero chance that the big Army is going to issue, reissue, or order parts for the 1911's they don't own any more. Most of the 1911's were crushed or torched, and those few that are still in the system are either in the hands of SOCOM, or are accurized target pistols. The NY National Guard still has a rack of target 1911's, and I see cadets from West Point at some of my local matches with USGI target pistols.

Originally posted by solvability
Is the Army reissuing 1911s to combat units? Are they new guns or old ones? I keep hearing of contracts for new 1911s and parts but they are never confirmed. Whjat is the real deal and where can I verify it?

[V guy]

Heard a local rumor.
Schumer our antigunner is trying to get a contract with Remington, to supply the military with new mil spec 1911's, the R1 model, or similar version.

Schumer has been instrumental to keep Remington in military contracts.

[Sgt_Gold]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

That's a good one.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Originally posted by V guy
Heard a local rumor.
Schumer our antigunner is trying to get a contract with Remington, to supply the military with new mil spec 1911's, the R1 model, or similar version.

Schumer has been instrumental to keep Remington in military contracts.

[Aifwikir]

At the end of WW2 the US army alone had over a million M1911A1's surplus from the war. The army used the 45 up until 1990 without buying any more since 1945 and according to estimates, they could have used them for another 40 years. NATO compliance was the only reason for the change.
The Clinton administration had most of the European 1911's dumped at sea after cleaning out the arms rooms there. I know of at least 2 Singer's and one US&S 1911 that didn't make it back and that was only out of my company's arms room.
The idea that the army is reissuing the 1911 is not likely. Most have been destroyed. Buying new will cost $700.00 per unit (old 1911's were $43.00 apiece.


:D
Aif

[Retired Bum]

I see that the diehard M1911 lovers are still alive and kicking.

There is no way that the DoD is going to spend big bucks on buying a 100 year old pistol design for military issue. That would be like replacing the Humvee with Model T Fords.

Now don't put me down as being anti M1911. I've owned many of them over a forty year period and own seven of them at present. But if I were a young trooper in the Army again I'd want a modern design in my pistol holster.

And so it goes.


The Retired One

[L Haney]

Originally posted by Aifwikir
At the end of WW2 the US army alone had over a million M1911A1's surplus from the war. The army used the 45 up until 1990 without buying any more since 1945 and according to estimates, they could have used them for another 40 years. NATO compliance was the only reason for the change.
The Clinton administration had most of the European 1911's dumped at sea after cleaning out the arms rooms there. I know of at least 2 Singer's and one US&S 1911 that didn't make it back and that was only out of my company's arms room.
The idea that the army is reissuing the 1911 is not likely. Most have been destroyed. Buying new will cost $700.00 per unit (old 1911's were $43.00 apiece.


:D
Aif

I remember seeing a data printout in the supply room in '79. 1911's last contract purchase date: 1945. Cost, IIRC was $50.00, M-16 cost on current contract, $333.00. M-2 HB 50 cal with one spare barrel, $9999.00, which I found strange. That was well over a years pay for me at the time.

[Aifwikir]

Originally posted by Retired Bum
I see that the diehard M1911 lovers are still alive and kicking.
There is no way that the DoD is going to spend big bucks on buying a 100 year old pistol design for military issue. That would be like replacing the Humvee with Model T Fords.


Now don't put me down as being anti M1911. I've owned many of them over a forty year period and own seven of them at present. But if I were a young trooper in the Army again I'd want a modern design in my pistol holster.

And so it goes.


The Retired One

I take exception to the idea that the 1911 is out dated! The 1911 is JUST as viable today as it was 100 years ago!! So what if it isn't made of plastic! It works when others would quit! Why does the 1911 show up and WIN at so many varieties of matches, even today? It works and it's accurate!


:D
Aif

[Retired Bum]

The M1911s used to win matches these days are a far cry from the old worn out pistols I saw while in the Army back in the 1960's. I have a Colt '70 Series Gold Cup custom fitted with a match grade Barsto barrel/bushing unit by the crew at 29 Palms. Yes, it will put 185 grain FMJ semiwadcutters into 2.5 inches at 50 yards in my Ransom Rest. But I sure wouldn't want the Gold Cup in my holster if I were using it for a duty weapon. Winning matches is one thing, having a reliable service pistol that will go bang everytime you pull the trigger is something else.

You shouldn't have to have a "reliablity package" done on your service pistol in order for it work properly. This is why if I were inclined to pack a .45 Auto it would be my Sig P220 which is box stock.

It is too bad that a segment of the M1911 crowd is IMHO unable to seperate fact from myth.

And so it goes.


The Retired One

[Sgt_Gold]

I never needed a 'reliability package' on any of the USGI 1911's I carried and shot as a Soldier because they were all in spec. It's all the non spec guns and parts that private companies have turned out over the years that have led to the 'myth' that the 1911 is unreliable. If you gun wasn't made right, it ain't gonna work right.

Originally posted by Retired Bum
You shouldn't have to have a "reliablity package" done on your service pistol in order for it work properly. This is why if I were inclined to pack a .45 Auto it would be my Sig P220 which is box stock.

It is too bad that a segment of the M1911 crowd is IMHO unable to seperate fact from myth.

And so it goes.


The Retired One [/B]

[Aifwikir]

I won military matches with a NM M1911A1 (consisted of a better set of fixed sights and a trigger job) using WW2 metal cased ammo. Nothing fancy, just a good solid, accurate pistol.

:D
Aif

[Stoney]

If they rattle, the'll shoot, but you don't always know where the bullet will go!:cry:

[lawdog]

The last 1911 issued to me by the Army was in 1986 while I was in the 82nd and then in '87-88 we were transitioned to the M9. I don't know what rare arms room some folks might have been in, but let me tell you that every last 1911 I saw on Bragg during that time had hard miles on them and far exceeded their life. Don't think for a second that just because you have a gazillion of something really means you have a gazillion of something worth having. What the Army had was a gazillion of semi-usable pieces and parts, not necessarily quality weapons.

Bringing those gazillion .45s up to speed would have been as costly as replacing them with the M9. There is no way on God's Green Earth that the military could have gone another 40 years on what it had without a complete re-arsenalling and or replacing of that weapon line.

I'm not saying the 1911 or M9 is better than one or the other, just that the 1911s in service had reached the end of the line. Should they have been replaced in kind? Don't know. Others can beat each other up fighting that debate. I'm stayin out of it.

[Retired Bum]

In 1967 I was in Vietnam and got shanghied into making a "courier run" to DaNang to help bring back a bunch of classified material. My issue weapon was a M14 so the NCO in charge of the run told me to get a .45 and hip holster. No problem with that. Two of the men living in the same hootch I did were issued M1911s and I borrowed one for the flight to DaNang.

The pistol was a M1911 made by Colt and had been made in 1918. It rattled like a bucket of bolts when I shook it. The ammo was old EC 42 steel case and looked nasty. But beggars can't be choosers so I strapped it on and got on the old C-47 and flew down to DaNang and back. That old Colt had to be the worst example of a beat to hell service pistol I have ever seen. I was glad to hand it back and reclaim my M14.

And so it goes.


The Retired One

[regular guy]

Hey, i'm "over here" right now, and my team has 12 Kimber Custom TLE II. They were here and we fell in on them. To a man we use them over the M9. But thats us, not the big Army. The Army will never go back, but given the choice we all (my team) go with the 1911.

[Ssarge]

Originally posted by Retired Bum
The M1911s used to win matches these days are a far cry from the old worn out pistols I saw while in the Army back in the 1960's. I have a Colt '70 Series Gold Cup custom fitted with a match grade Barsto barrel/bushing unit by the crew at 29 Palms. Yes, it will put 185 grain FMJ semiwadcutters into 2.5 inches at 50 yards in my Ransom Rest. But I sure wouldn't want the Gold Cup in my holster if I were using it for a duty weapon. Winning matches is one thing, having a reliable service pistol that will go bang everytime you pull the trigger is something else.

You shouldn't have to have a "reliablity package" done on your service pistol in order for it work properly. This is why if I were inclined to pack a .45 Auto it would be my Sig P220 which is box stock.

It is too bad that a segment of the M1911 crowd is IMHO unable to seperate fact from myth.

And so it goes.

The Retired One

The M1911A1 was my primary weapon for 7 years in the Army. I shot on Battalion, Brigade, Regimental and Divisional pistol teams with my stock issue 1911A1. I never had a stoppage, jam or problem with an issue pistol. I normally had Remington Rand or Ithica pistols. They had honest wear but were far from wornout. I have a RR my father brought back from WWII. I have carried it on duty and have fired thousands of rounds through it, again without a hitch. All I did was use Flitz metal polish to hand polish the feed ramp and it feeds even the CCI Flying Ashtray round reliably. That is my "reliability package" and has been all required. No myth involved.