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moonbat60
September 23, 2009, 15:42
Hey guys !

I just got an email from MSAR, saying that the MCS ( pistol caliber carbine / AUG clone ) will hopefully become available at / after the SHOT show.

Just letting you know...............

:fal:

Pete

Squint
September 23, 2009, 23:18
I just want a 20" barrel for less than $300

Stranger
September 24, 2009, 08:42
When AR barrels are $150-300, why would you expect to be able to buy a specialty rifle barrel for only $300?

Stranger
September 24, 2009, 09:28
BTW, MSAR has also said it is going to put out a run of E4's in 5.45x39 and 7.62x39. They will be compatible with the 5.56 E4 rifles so you can swap barrels and bolts to your hearts content. Apparently, they are going to be using the C-Products magazines.

Squint
September 24, 2009, 09:55
Originally posted by Stranger
When AR barrels are $150-300, why would you expect to be able to buy a specialty rifle barrel for only $300?

Hell, DSA is selling whole uppers for $265.

Stranger
September 24, 2009, 10:15
Originally posted by Squint


Hell, DSA is selling whole uppers for $265.

You mean a standard barrel, gas block, and piston tube? Uppers are going for $375-450.

There is more to an AUG/MSAR barrel that just those three parts. If you want a fluted barrel you are already looking at $500. In addition, those DSA barrels aren't chrome-lined either, which adds a lot to the price of a barrel.

BTW, there was a guy here on the Files who sold a 16" MSAR barrel for $200.

Squint
September 24, 2009, 19:15
I had no idea that fluting a barrel added so much to the cost. I think it detracts from the barrel’s looks but I know it reduces the weight of the barrel without sacrificing much strength. I guess I should have waited until the 20" STG-556 came out before I bought one.

K.O.A.M.
September 24, 2009, 19:34
I'm just hoping they'll do one in .357 Sig like they said they would. March/April is about the right time for me to buy a new gun.

olgier
September 25, 2009, 19:11
i just looked at an MSAR on GB, 1250.00 / 1300.00 BIN...no bids............. 1 hr left. that's alot less than i paid for mine!

K.O.A.M.
September 26, 2009, 09:06
I was glad to get out of my full sized one when I did.

Lee Carpentieri
October 02, 2009, 19:08
I wonder how MSAR is supposed to be doing all this when I heard their going to move to Asheville N.C. real soon. Plus the financial problems their having and some lawsuits facing them it will be amazing if they can get anything out the door. Their was a long thread over on Sturmgewehr.com about people complaining about quality control and warranty issues on the MSAR's products and even the owners responses seemed like a smoke screen being laid out and used the excuses of newer products to cover for the problems there having in all sectors of the business's day to day operations.

Squint
October 02, 2009, 23:39
I have a second generation model. I have only fired about 500 rounds but so far so good. The only problem I've had was trouble getting the firing pin out of the bolt the first time i took it apart. The end of the firing pin spring caught on something inside the plastic piece at the rear of the bolt carrier and bent slightly when I did manage to get it out. I called MSAR and they sent me a new firing pin and spring for free. That is pretty good customer service. I am still using the original spring and firing pin. The replacement is still sealed in the bag for future use. I have never had any malfunctions while firing it and it is more accurate than my AR-15. I love this rifle.

Stranger
October 03, 2009, 00:36
Originally posted by Lee Carpentieri
I wonder how MSAR is supposed to be doing all this when I heard their going to move to Asheville N.C. real soon. Plus the financial problems their having and some lawsuits facing them it will be amazing if they can get anything out the door. Their was a long thread over on Sturmgewehr.com about people complaining about quality control and warranty issues on the MSAR's products and even the owners responses seemed like a smoke screen being laid out and used the excuses of newer products to cover for the problems there having in all sectors of the business's day to day operations.

Well that is certainly a metric ton of bullshit to drop on a thread. Do you have coroborating sources you would like to show? Any threads to post?

You show no hard information or sources and yet you shit all over MSAR.

From what I have seen, the folks here on the Files certainly have nothing but compliments to heap on the MSAR product. The few MSAR rifles I have had a chance to shoot have been solid and accurate.

Do you actually own one, or are you just blowing shit mist?

JohnnyReb
October 03, 2009, 21:09
I love my 20" gen 4. It shoots a hell of a lot better than my Sig.

I'd move from from PA to NC too, hell I'm already here.

sturmgrenadiere
October 04, 2009, 08:15
Stranger

For a month or so there's been a lot of hubub on ar15.com in the bullpup section (if I recall) and on usaaug.com on this topic, which has proven to be very polarizing as far as rabid MSAR loyalist segment vs the sky is falling crowd, with a fair amount of legitimate people just looking for a few answers. Lee is not dropping a metric ton of bullshit unless by bullshit you mean a lot of lengthy threads and topics on this subject.

May I respectfully recommend you do a little research on the forums I noted in order to draw your own conclusions. But that was a pretty heavy handed reply to Lee who merely stated what he read and is pretty well known as a level headed guy.

Regards

Ben

Stranger
October 04, 2009, 15:44
Originally posted by sturmgrenadiere
Stranger

For a month or so there's been a lot of hubub on ar15.com in the bullpup section (if I recall) and on usaaug.com on this topic, which has proven to be very polarizing as far as rabid MSAR loyalist segment vs the sky is falling crowd, with a fair amount of legitimate people just looking for a few answers. Lee is not dropping a metric ton of bullshit unless by bullshit you mean a lot of lengthy threads and topics on this subject.

May I respectfully recommend you do a little research on the forums I noted in order to draw your own conclusions. But that was a pretty heavy handed reply to Lee who merely stated what he read and is pretty well known as a level headed guy.

Regards

Ben

Even level headed men can get caught up in perpetuating non-sense. Lee's comment and innuendos are no less heavy handed than my response.

I am by nature a skeptic but my experience with the MSAR product has proven to be a positive one. It is a rifle that works. I was so confident that I bought two. The one that I didn't sell has been an excellent shooter.

That being said, every new firearm has its startup hiccups. My first Sig 556 came from the factory with a loose optics rail which I didn't discover until I was about ready to pitch it into the lake. I am sure MSAR will make it right otherwise they will suffer the consequences (e.g. no one will buy their rifles).

Lee's comments seem to be innocuous but he insinuated that MSAR is a company about to go under (i.e. you won't be able to get parts or use your warranty).

Claiming that a new product doesn't work is death to a new manufacturer.

If you don't see the defamatory nature of these comments you are either blind or in cahoots with Lee/Steyr.

sturmgrenadiere
October 04, 2009, 21:39
I am in cahoots with neither, or any party on here, nor blind. And I own an STG556 myself and think it is a handy rifle. Given my current geographic situation, I approach all of this as casual conversation among friends. I took Lee's post merely as "I heard this". I read yours as "Lee, you are not only crazy but deceptive". My reply was merely in support of the reality that there is indeed a lot of scrutiny and drama on a few AUG/MSAR boards about some of the peculiarities with some STG556 rifles and the company. I have no dog in the fight, but gave you solid cueing to find what Lee was referring to. Mine was not an attack on you. He talks about a company, you clicked off safe and attacked him. Big difference. Do check out those forums. I assure you a lot of it is conjecture and whining, but perhaps there is some truth shrouded in all the fuss.

Regards

Ben

Squint
October 05, 2009, 09:20
I read the AR-15 MSAR thread for months before I bought my STG-556. Basically it was two (really vocal) bitchers with and axe to grind and 40 or 50 satisfied customers.

Lee Carpentieri
October 07, 2009, 11:14
STRANGER, To attack Ben/ sturmgrenadiere like that is really low, As Ben is well respected on the Fal Files and is serving his country right now with the U.S. Marine corps. just like I did from 1968 to 1974 in the U.S. Army. So don't put words in peoples mouths like you did and try and read between the lines like you did to me, As all your doing is showing your immaturity. If I was you I would apologize to Ben as Ben and I have never met, But if he ever needed anything I would be more than willing to help as I'm that type of person that knows where Ben has to go in harms way and I've been in harms way to many times to talk about. I just call it like I see it and I've been around the weapons industry for over 35 years now. Enough said.

Ben As always, Sir, Gods speed no matter were your flying in a safe return. Semper Fi.

JohnnyReb
October 07, 2009, 12:45
Here is some more MSAR news:

They made a big price cut at the beginning of September. :beer:

Stranger
October 07, 2009, 13:45
Originally posted by Lee Carpentieri
Stranger, Lets start here, Pete Athens who was the partner in MSAR has filed in Federal court against Tony Marfone for over 160K. Thiers two steel companies in Florida that have filed against Tony Marfone for over 500K together. Thiers a dealer in Arizona that took Tony Marfone to Federal court for 80K for failure to produce the knifes that the dealer ordered and paid for up front, Tony declared a loss after the last hurricane we had in Florida three years ago and yet got a really big insurance settlement that was taken from him and held by the Federal courts due to a lot of lawsuits against him and Microtech and MSAR and the fact the minute Pete left MSAR the weapons being built turned to shit in a nutshell. Pete was trained by Steyr and has two of the former Gun South Inc. people that were trained by Steyr to work and build from scratch an AUG in Austria before GSI went out of business, Pete still does more business with Steyr than anybody in the trade. Heres another little tidbid STRANGER, MSAR was offered by Steyr 3 times to build the new Steyr Aug A3 and Tony got real greedy and Steyr told him to F OFF after the third meeting. So my info isn't from the internet but from people in the firearms INDUSTRY DIRECT to which I have a lot of friends in that industry considering I do consulting work for them. Plus I've owned three Steyr Aug's, One A1, One A1 Special receivered Aug That was a full-auto with a real transferable FA trigger pack and One A2 Aug. I sold all three in the last two years and made money with them. Wait until your Msar STG-556 kicks a piece of brass out and it hits you in the face, Because it will if you own and shoot it long enough. So who's in your own words blowing a SHIT MIST IN WHO'S FACE NOW STRANGER. Like Ben said, Maybe you should look around at what people are saying about MSARS customer service and warranty repairs and considering MSAR/Microtech has been in business over ten years now, It's not like their a young start up company and even some of their former employees are talking on the internet as of late about what is happening at MSAR and its owner. I know the owner personally and after what I've heard from industry members, I've put some distance between myself and the owner.
Less I forget, Call CNC and ask them why they had to Repocess thier CNC from MSAR and the laser water jet cutter also and both of those machines had a six month delayed payment and yet after one year they both got REPO'ED which is public record with the state of PA. Now, I'd like to see Tony succeed in business, But his business ethics have alot to be desired and as the old saying goes, You don't borrow from Peter to pay Paul, Because Peter wants his money back with high interest that won't be paid back. I could tell more about some people in the arms industry including more about the owner of MSAR, But I feel I've already said enough. I just hope that nobody has to go through what others have had to go through with MSAR as of late.

Thanks for the information. Now go **** yourself.

All I did was ask questions. I never said, "You are full of shit." I asked, "Are you full of shit?" All you had to do was answer no. How hard is that?

The information you present is awesome if its all true. However...

You insinuated that MSAR is being sued because of deffective RIFLES, when in fact it is because the owner might be a douchebag/thief. The vast majority of buyers have been very pleased with their rifles, although I don't think they would agree with the owners course of action. Do you see the difference. Even dickheads sometimes produce something of value.

However, you DID do exactly what I stated you did by posting defamatory information without backing it up. Now that you have offered up some reasons for being skeptical about MSARs prospects we can all weigh the material and come to our own conclusions.

I conclude that you are a douche who got her panties in a wad after someone said, "Prove it." Go clean the sand out of your vag Sally. You will feel much better. :smile:

Stranger
October 07, 2009, 13:47
Originally posted by Lee Carpentieri
STRANGER, To attack Ben/ sturmgrenadiere like that is really low...

If you think I "attacked" Ben you must have a metric ton of sand up your hoo-hoo. Either that or you are smoking crack again.

You haven't fallen off the wagon again have you? :?

Remember, wash out the sand and you will be much more comfortable.

moonbat60
October 07, 2009, 17:49
Did ( or does ) Steyr build an AUG in a pistol caliber that is available on the US market ?

I'm not interested in a gun with a conversion unit though, I'd like to have a dedicated pistol caliber AUG type gun.

:fal:

Pete

Falkov
October 08, 2009, 21:23
.Wait until your Msar STG-556 kicks a piece of brass out and it hits you in the face, Because it will if you own and shoot it long enough.


What? The rifle is NOT safe for use? Where did you get this information from?

Somehow, this will turn out just like the thread at AR15.com website

Stranger
October 09, 2009, 10:18
Originally posted by Falkov
.


What? The rifle is NOT safe for use? Where did you get this information from?

Somehow, this will turn out just like the thread at AR15.com website

Maybe he means that if you try to shoot an MSAR left-handed that has the ejection port on the right side brass will smack you in the face.

He classifies that as a design flaw. :rofl:

Lee Carpentieri
October 10, 2009, 06:10
Its called natural wear and tear on the LOCKING PIECE sleeve that holds the bolt to the carrier. The 901 series and the later improved 906 series of the Steyr Augs both do this along with the MSAR STG-556 as the MSAR is the same internally as the Steyr Aug EXCEPT with external add on's like the forward assist and the mounting points for the rails on either side of the receiver.
Now here's what to look for when your done shooting the Aug and your doing a cleaning of the weapon including the internal parts of the bolt carrier group, The locking sleeve looks like a half moon shaped sleeve that holds the bolt in and on the back end of the sleeve the old style sleeve had the two little S shaped TIT's on either side, If one broke it would cause the sleeve to shift and hence cause the angle of ejection of brass to change and throw it more forward of the ejection port which in turn would stick in the lip at the front corner of the ejection port and then if you didn't notice and fired the next round, That piece of brass would hit the piece stuck in the plastic of the stock and hit you right in the cheek. NOW, With the improved A 2 locking piece that is a redesign of the back locking piece to keep the for mentioned from happening as often, Its like any small mechanical piece, It will eventually wear out and break.
Lee.

Stranger
October 10, 2009, 15:51
Originally posted by Lee Carpentieri
Its called natural wear and tear on the LOCKING PIECE sleeve that holds the bolt to the carrier. The 901 series and the later improved 906 series of the Steyr Augs both do this along with the MSAR STG-556 as the MSAR is the same internally as the Steyr Aug EXCEPT with external add on's like the forward assist and the mounting points for the rails on either side of the receiver.
Now here's what to look for when your done shooting the Aug and your doing a cleaning of the weapon including the internal parts of the bolt carrier group, The locking sleeve looks like a half moon shaped sleeve that holds the bolt in and on the back end of the sleeve the old style sleeve had the two little S shaped TIT's on either side, If one broke it would cause the sleeve to shift and hence cause the angle of ejection of brass to change and throw it more forward of the ejection port which in turn would stick in the lip at the front corner of the ejection port and then if you didn't notice and fired the next round, That piece of brass would hit the piece stuck in the plastic of the stock and hit you right in the cheek. NOW, With the improved A 2 locking piece that is a redesign of the back locking piece to keep the for mentioned from happening as often, Its like any small mechanical piece, It will eventually wear out and break.

Now I won't mention any names and you can take it for what its worth to you, I talked to the owner of MSAR the other day and told him what I said here and we talked and I found out some other stuff that hasn't been posted anywhere pertaining to the business end of MSAR and that is staying between the owner and myself and whoever else he decides to tell, NOT the MECHANICAL end of the business and the owner agreed with what I said, So theirs NO defamation of character or slander involved legally. So I suggest some of you learn what the LAW is and not ASSUME what you don't know.
Lee.

Thanks for the heads-up. I looked at my MSAR and, sure enough, I can see the wear point(s).

So, is this something that can be "fixed" so that it never happens or is it something that is just inevitable and I have to be on the look out?

Lee Carpentieri
October 10, 2009, 21:57
Like you said, You just have to check it. No cure for the design yet. Its like any mechanical wear spot that rubs the wrong way or is a stress point and wears out.

Falkov
October 10, 2009, 22:17
So, basically it's the AUG design (flaw) in general and not just MSAR gun, correct?

How come problem like this hasn't been mentioned before? Especially from Austrian/Australia Armies or from the AUG owners- just curious.

jimmad1
October 10, 2009, 22:54
Falkov

In the case of the Australian F88 trials the failure of the locking piece (and other parts like the firing pin for instance) was documented in Defence Trial Report No 8/513, Volume 3 (Abstract) in Annex B to Part three to EDE 17/85 ENDURANCE. Pages B-43 through B-46, Table 7 of the Annex lists parts breakages of the of the Austrian Steyr AUGs submitted for trials. Doubtless Steyr documentation exists concerning long term endurance issues, but I don't have personal access to any.

Falkov
October 10, 2009, 23:00
Thank you !

Lee Carpentieri
October 11, 2009, 21:10
jimmad1, Thank you, Saved me the time from looking it up again.

the gman
October 12, 2009, 20:19
Originally posted by Stranger


In addition, those DSA barrels aren't chrome-lined either, which adds a lot to the price of a barrel.



No it doesn't. FYI, chroming with either US Chrome or Superior Chrome (the two main barrel chroming shops in the USA) costs $1 per inch of barrel. Chuck in 50 cents for shipping on a job lot of barrels & you are at $16.50 per 16" barrel. Shit, let's just call it $20 & that STILL isn't anywhere near what any sane person would call adding a "lot to the price of the barrel".:rolleyes:

MSAR could always save themselves a lot of cash by going to a certain kind of Nitriding but hey, stick with chrome, it's proven & been around for a long time. Fluting does add cost but nowhere near what most custom barrel makers charge for it when it is done on a production basis.

Would it surprise anyone here to discover that most run of the mill AR barrels cost much less than $100 when bought in quantity? Other than quantities used & some other special features, MSAR barrels should be easy to sell at around $200 & make a profit. That is, unless you are dealing with folks such as Lee describes.....:uhoh: :uhoh:

Been seeing MSAR coming waaaay down in price at the distributors lately too, things that make you go "hmmmmm".....:wink:

BTW, little bit of a change in your attitude there Stranger, might wanna be a little bit more careful 'fore you jump in Lee's shit in the future.:rolleyes: Apology might go a long way too?

lawdog
October 13, 2009, 12:30
So, am I reading Lee's post correctly that the MSAR uses the latest version of the sleeve that doesn't have the protrusion that breaks, tilts, and puts the brass where it can cause damage? So, then what does happen when this latest version of this piece wears out and breaks? The same result?

Stranger
October 13, 2009, 15:16
Originally posted by the gman


No it doesn't. FYI, chroming with either US Chrome or Superior Chrome (the two main barrel chroming shops in the USA) costs $1 per inch of barrel. Chuck in 50 cents for shipping on a job lot of barrels & you are at $16.50 per 16" barrel. Shit, let's just call it $20 & that STILL isn't anywhere near what any sane person would call adding a "lot to the price of the barrel".:rolleyes:

BTW, little bit of a change in your attitude there Stranger, might wanna be a little bit more careful 'fore you jump in Lee's shit in the future.:rolleyes: Apology might go a long way too?

So, adding 20% to the cost of a barrel isn't a significant amount? Wow, I've got a rifle that I want to sell you, and I'm only going to mark it up 20% , so no big deal, right? :rolleyes:

I did not "jump" anyone's "shit". All I did was ask Lee to prove his claims because they sounded like BS. (In case you haven't noticed there is a lot of that flying around on gun boards.)

So, you think I owe someone an apology? I am up for that.

I am terribly sorry you are such an ass. :wink:

the gman
October 15, 2009, 23:20
Originally posted by Stranger


So, adding 20% to the cost of a barrel isn't a significant amount? Wow, I've got a rifle that I want to sell you, and I'm only going to mark it up 20% , so no big deal, right? :rolleyes:

I did not "jump" anyone's "shit". All I did was ask Lee to prove his claims because they sounded like BS. (In case you haven't noticed there is a lot of that flying around on gun boards.)

So, you think I owe someone an apology? I am up for that.

I am terribly sorry you are such an ass. :wink:

GFY dickbreath. You have a real fukcing problem when someone corrects your bullshit. You still don't know shit nor will you ever understand anything you small time, small minded turd. I think most folks understand what jumping in someone's shit is & you did it, to the point a moderator tried to calm your ass down.

Quote:

sturmgrenadiere

Stranger

For a month or so there's been a lot of hubub on ar15.com in the bullpup section (if I recall) and on usaaug.com on this topic, which has proven to be very polarizing as far as rabid MSAR loyalist segment vs the sky is falling crowd, with a fair amount of legitimate people just looking for a few answers. Lee is not dropping a metric ton of bullshit unless by bullshit you mean a lot of lengthy threads and topics on this subject.

May I respectfully recommend you do a little research on the forums I noted in order to draw your own conclusions. But that was a pretty heavy handed reply to Lee who merely stated what he read and is pretty well known as a level headed guy.

Regards

Ben

End quote.

The way you phrased your comments, it was as though you thought that chroming added hundreds of $$ to the cost of the barrel. BTW, fully chromed & ready to fit barrels are available for the AR to manufacturers for around $55 in qty. MSAR barrels should easily be produced for around $65. Hardly a huge increase except in your own tiny mind but carry on, Captain Clueless.

Time for my own apology:

I'm sorry you're still upright & drawing breath as you are an oxygen thief of the highest order who runs his cockholster with little control & even less accuracy. Eat shit & fcuk off douchebag.:skull: :skull:

sturmgrenadiere
October 16, 2009, 11:48
As usual, my attemps at maintaining a professional and civil level of discourse on here ends in disaster.

JohnnyReb
October 16, 2009, 12:27
Originally posted by lawdog
So, am I reading Lee's post correctly that the MSAR uses the latest version of the sleeve that doesn't have the protrusion that breaks, tilts, and puts the brass where it can cause damage? So, then what does happen when this latest version of this piece wears out and breaks? The same result?

I don't "get" it either. :confused:

When I have a part the wears out or breaks through normal wear and tear....

I replace it.

I guess I should buy a spare now, before they go out of business. :rolleyes:

Is that the gist if it?

Stranger
October 16, 2009, 16:55
Originally posted by sturmgrenadiere
As usual, my attemps at maintaining a professional and civil level of discourse on here ends in disaster.

Its a hard job considering what you have to work with. :angel:

Originally posted by the g-string
I'm sorry you're still upright & drawing breath as you are an oxygen thief of the highest order who runs his cockholster with little control & even less accuracy. Eat shit & fcuk off douchebag.

:rofl: Agro much?

I wonder what g-string's blood pressure runs normally? 200 over 120? If you keep that up your going to pop, buddy. (And not in a good way.) :smile: Not that it would be any big loss to anyone.

Lee Carpentieri
October 16, 2009, 20:10
Ok Guys, Lets call a cease fire and get on with the INFO at hand. The AUG or MSAR STG-556 have some parts JUST LIKE any other weapon that have early wear parts like the locking sleeve,Which on the Steyr A2/A3 is a marked improvement over the A1 design, Normal wear parts are, Extractor and Spring, Ejector and Spring, Firing pin and Spring. Gas rings.

Basically the same type of parts that you would have to replace in any AR 10/15 M16 type weapon design.

Ben, Your level of maintaining order is great, Some people don't understand what they have read and tried to turn it around because of the fact they have a denial problem. But then again, Don't we all. Guess its the nature of humanity.

Oh Ben, Try and stay away from the 38 parallel, Dam North Koreans are testing missles again, No telling which way they'll go. Take care Sir.
Lee.

jimmad1
October 16, 2009, 20:20
Lee

Thank you. You've saved me the hassle of pointing out the obvious. But I doubt I'd have been so polite in my presentation.

Stranger
October 17, 2009, 00:24
Originally posted by Lee Carpentieri

... Some people don't understand what they have read and tried to turn it around because of the fact they have a denial problem. But then again, Don't we all. Guess its the nature of humanity.


Good to see that one of us can admit to it. :wink:

K.O.A.M.
October 17, 2009, 18:40
Originally posted by sturmgrenadiere
As usual, my attemps at maintaining a professional and civil level of discourse on here ends in disaster.

You need to look at DB, N&CE and Politics before you declare your moderating a disaster. That's a disaster. This is nothing. You'd have to insult somebody's parentage and let El Ron post some pictures before you'd have a disaster. This is a tiff, tops.

sturmgrenadiere
October 19, 2009, 13:21
Yes indeed, I was being more facecious in my comment. But a good steer back on topic is always good.

Right now I have been working out of Clark airbase in the Philippines for the past damn month where typhoons are the greater danger than missiles from North Korea, and the occasional binge on San Miguel. But I was up to Kunsan, Osan, and Seoul a bit last month... but aside from some poorly done character imitations from Team America by some off my crew, apparently the North wasn't interested in my flight.

Thorack
October 19, 2009, 15:01
Yo,

Sturm minor dust up now head back up to the L1A1 Files where the real boys are an post something for god sakes!

HANS BRICKS, I'M A VEWY BUSY MAN!

Hows the FAM handling Asia?

Thorack

aardq
October 20, 2009, 20:42
Stranger, I don't know any of you on this thread, and I have no dog in "your" fight, but to me it appears that you are jumping, and jumping hard for no reason. Take the trash talk and the load of crap to DB where it belongs.

All I wanted was to read a little info on a rifle, not to step into a middle of a sh+it fight.

Dan

Stranger
October 23, 2009, 12:20
Originally posted by aardq
Stranger, I don't know any of you on this thread, and I have no dog in "your" fight, but to me it appears that you are jumping, and jumping hard for no reason. Take the trash talk and the load of crap to DB where it belongs.


In case you didn't read the entire thread, Lee made the opening shot by "jumping" on MSAR. The reason I put 'jumping' in quotes is because I did no more or less than Lee.

Go back to painting your nails, Susie, and let the adults talk.

Lee Carpentieri
October 26, 2009, 01:38
OK Guys, Lets all Chill OUT. I recieved alot of e-mails on this in my defence and their are some that know a lot of whats going on in the weapons industry that a lot of you never hear about here on the files and other web sites, BUT my info doesn't come from the Internet, It comes from dealing with manufactures and suppliers to the industry and end users like law enforcement and Militaries around the world. The only reason I posted what I did, Was because I don't like to see people that are hard working spend money on a product or with a company that has problems that can affect the end user in both safety and financial hardships. So right or wrong we all need to get along as theirs a lot worse problems we'll all need to deal with in the future and as a community of weapons owners we all need to stick together. Lee.

sturmgrenadiere
October 26, 2009, 09:04
Stranger. Your above statement supports my original response to you. Lee commented on company (a financial entity), you jumped on him (man on man). This in itself should merely be amusing. But what is annoying is your deliberate efforts to deride most any counter to your opinion. Your efforts to write with credibility and authority are weakened by your delivery.

I am yet to see your thougts on what you read on the AR and AUG boards where most of these controversial threads lie. Have you had a chance to look into this controversy yourself? As I stated in my initial post, check it out and form your own conclusions. Right now you consistently appear to be one of the rabid MSAR supporters. That in itself is great, all of our favorite companys need good loyal customers during these times. But it is your method that is mind boggling. Seems many see it except you. I expect the "he started it" from my son, not grown men claiming to be debating like adults.

Regards

Ben

Stranger
October 26, 2009, 09:37
Originally posted by sturmgrenadiere
Stranger. Your above statement supports my original response to you. Lee commented on company (a financial entity), you jumped on him (man on man). This in itself should merely be amusing. But what is annoying is your deliberate efforts to deride most any counter to your opinion. Your efforts to write with credibility and authority are weakened by your delivery.

I am yet to see your thougts on what you read on the AR and AUG boards where most of these controversial threads lie. Have you had a chance to look into this controversy yourself? As I stated in my initial post, check it out and form your own conclusions. Right now you consistently appear to be one of the rabid MSAR supporters. That in itself is great, all of our favorite companys need good loyal customers during these times. But it is your method that is mind boggling. Seems many see it except you. I expect the "he started it" from my son, not grown men claiming to be debating like adults.

Regards

Ben

What thread are you reading? It doesn't appear to be this one.

The only arguments that have been made are in regards to whether or not I was "jumping" on Lee. My initial statement, while pointed, was in fact true. Lee did not initially explain his claims that the STG556 rifles has problems and that MSAR may not be the best choice of companies with which to do business. I said it sounded like internet BS.

Lets recap this thread. Lee made derogatory statements without offering any information to back up his claim. I said it sounded like BS. Lee stated it was true, corrected a couple things, back peddled a bit, made some clarifications, and backed up his argument. I then agreed with Lee that, if his information is correct, the company sounds like trouble.

Did you catch that? I agreed with Lee! If you actually took the time to READ the thread you will see that, after Lee took the time to explain his statements, I agreed with him. I even thanked him for giving us the heads up on the wear point(s) inherent in the design. So, I agreed with him and I thanked him. Who'da thunk it!

Like I said, the only "argument" being made is whether or not I my first comment to Lee was overly pointed/harsh. I don't think it was, others disagree. Arguing whether or not someone may have had their feelings hurt on a message board may be fun, but it is pointless.