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gauraprema
July 02, 2009, 06:08
What is the ability of the garand as far as it being used only for shots beyond 300yds upto 1000yds?Is the 30-06 round more favorable for this function than the .308(7.62x51)?Please explain.Thanks

hagar
July 02, 2009, 06:19
Yes, the Garand will clean the M1A's clock, but you need the 175 grain Sierra to take you to 1000 yards.

littlehoot
July 10, 2009, 17:54
if you have a good garand- that is, one with nice and tight numbers... low TE and MW, it does fine. my hra that has <1 mw and <3 te will consistently stay on a sheet of typing paper at 350- if i could see better i could shoot better.

gauraprema
July 14, 2009, 06:39
Howa bout a service grade garand from cmp?

shlomo
July 14, 2009, 07:44
Originally posted by gauraprema
Howa bout a service grade garand from cmp?

I don't know what your accuracy parameters are, but you will be extremely lucky if you get a rifle that groups repeatably under 3 MOA.

Now before all the posts begin from guys who claim to have an as-issued Garand that prints 1 MOA outta the box, take a gander at this, the results from the JCG match at last year's Nationals:

http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/report_eventAward.cgi?matchID=3426&eventID=11&awardID=2

You will note that out of 1177 entrants, the number of shooters who could clean the slowfire prone is..... (drumroll)

...nine. The SR target used in the match has a 3-minute ten ring. Since this was the National Matches, you can assume that a high concentration of some of the best competitive shooters in the country were in that mix. You may also assume that they are showing up with the very best shooting M1 they have.

I think you can draw your own conclusions.

This is not to say that an M1 can't be made to shoot. It will take glass bedding the action with down-pressure on the barrel at the stock ferrule/lower band junction, at a minimuim. Without that, your chance of getting the rifle to repeatedly shoot to the same zero (or even fire all eight shots to the same POI) is about one in a hundred, in my observation.

A service grade will have better bore condition and stock condition than rack-grade, but will probably not be terribly tight in the wood. If you need real accuracy (around 2 MOA or less) plan on pressure bedding it.

Douglas Wozny
July 14, 2009, 11:26
Remember, the acceptable accuracy for a rebuilt U.S. Rifle, caliber .30, M1 was a little over 6 MOA!

Nepag
July 14, 2009, 11:42
To answer the question as to whether you can get a tight barrel from a CMP field grade Garand, the answer is YES. However, to do that with certainty, you have to go to either store and hand select one. They have muzzle and throat gauges that you can use to check each rifle.

However, if you buy one through the mail, you'll get the luck of the draw. From my experiences at the southern store, most of the HRA Garands have original barrels that have been lightly used. The Springfields are both WW II and Korean War vintages. The WW II rifles have likely been rebarreled numerous times. The Korean War ones might have original barrels. Both vintages may have been either lightly or heavily used.

Although the guys that work there are really helpful, they won't gauge barrels to select for mail order because of time and work pressures.

Again, it pays for a trip to a store to hand select. In addition to getting what you want in either a Garand or M1 carbine, they occasionally offer "in store" deals. Last weekend they had Greek 30-06 in clips for $65 because the 30 cal ammo cans were slightly rusty. The ammo inside was pristine.

Blue Monster
July 14, 2009, 11:44
Don't you know the net can make any rifle or any shooter a sub MOA marksman?

Shlomo is soo right, I hear a lot of talk but I see little evidence...
other than Shlo's which says a lot!

The term MOA is used sort of like inches... when fishing alone. ;)

hagar
July 14, 2009, 11:48
Most any Garand with a good barrel and a NEW stock will shoot 2 moa. These old WW2 stocks don't cut it anymore, when they warm up they string all over the place.

All my Garands have new stocks on them, one a Boyds, another a laminated Boyd's, and my HRA has a new CMP stock. The HRA especially is a great shooter, will shoot nice round groups at 200 yards, but before I changed the stock, it was stringing up and down.

I won the Tucson Garand match a bunch of times, and high slow prone score was a 199/200. My laminated stocked Garand won me 3rd place in a 1000 yard service rifle shoot against over 30 military shooters with M14's, and all the civilians. This is a dead standard Garand with a VAR barrel. It was the first and only time I have ever shot a Garand at 1000, and did it more as a joke. Loaded some 175 Sierras behind 47 grains of Varget, and it was smoking. Shot like 6 10's or X's in a row in my 2nd series, and it was very windy that day.

Shlomo has some good advice, he builds really nice match quality Garands.

gauraprema
July 19, 2009, 01:02
When I actually get to see my garand will it be easy to change the stock to get better accuracy?I would like for it to at least reach 600 with repatition of poi or as close as possible.If they have another I want to shoot at the butner shoots.Have any of you guys got good accuracy from the hxp or have you just loaded your own?I will have to buy loaded ammo as I am not set up to reload yet.

Survey Punk
July 19, 2009, 10:59
Fitting a stock is not difficult. Of as much importance is the fit of the handguards. On the service Garand they need to be downright sloppy. This prevents them from pressing against the front of the receiver, middle band, and the gas cylinder when they heat up from firing.
DGR offers a pre fitted stock sets for the M1. http://www.dgrguns.com/New-M1-Garand-Stocks.htm . I've had excellent results with these.
Butner. I'm supposed to be there right now helping out with the NC juniors but got stuck at home this weekend. The juniors have practice weekends periodically and I'm sure no one would mind you turning up and shooting your M1 across the course. I'll check into it and keep you posted.
There is a new club in Eastern NC, the Down East Garand Shooters based in Greenville. http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/clubInfo.cgi?clubID=5377 They've become rather large in a very short time. Amazing how many Garands are in the area.
Your Greek ammo is OK but quality fodder will really open your eyes to what the M1 can do.

JB

gunplumber
July 19, 2009, 11:59
DMR usually implies a scope. The garand is particularly unsuited for mounting a scope. The D model easier than the C, but still a lot of work for a (by today's standard) poor optical choice.

But I absolutely would not feel undergunned if my Get-Out-of-Dodge Rifle was an M1 garand in either '06 or .308.

Its just my vision ain't quite what it was 20 years ago and those sights aren't quite as sharp as they used to be.

But speaking of garands, I made this flash hider a few years ago and rediscovered it yesterday. I turning down a brake and soldered on an StG 58 section. It is $50, $6.50 ship (which is less than the cost of the brake I started with).

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/webpictures/garandflash.jpg

Heat
July 19, 2009, 15:51
Ive owned 4 service grade SA Garands from CMP ..1st shot consistent 1MOA and best group was 3shot .676 inches..other rifles shot 2-3 MOA..all with greek surplus! Better than ANY FAL or other surplus rifle I've owned..all these Garands were post korean war and in excellent shape

BUFF
July 19, 2009, 18:26
guaraprema: You will have to be a pretty good rifle shot before you will out-shoot HXP, or most quality milsurp .30-06, without shooting from a bench. When you are shooting into 4 inches or less for 8 shots from prone at 100 yards consistently, then it may be time to work on better ammo.

gunplumber
July 19, 2009, 18:52
Originally posted by Survey Punk
DGR offers a pre fitted stock sets for the M1. http://www.dgrguns.com/New-M1-Garand-Stocks.htm . I've had excellent results with these.

A couple years ago I switched from (company to remain nameless) to Wenig stocks, and I'm pleased to see that dgrguns.com is using Wenig stocks.

They cost 20-25% more, but the fit is far superior in my opinion. They tend to be tight at the flats of the "magazine floor plate" or whatever you want to call that half of the trigger group. But this is an easy area to fit. The otehr stocks may have been cheaper, but they required a lot more thinking to figure out why, as they were always different.

Of course, glass bedding is always nice and there are well-published methods for accurizing beyond that. I bedded a pillar in my stock so I can bolt the receiver down and have it tensioned independent of the trigger group - but I don't shoot well enough to know if it made any difference.

There is also a very quick and dirty method for smoothing the trigger pull - just sandwhich a piece of fine emory paper between the trigger and hammer, cock the hammer, and then rip out the paper. There's your $100 trigger job in 5 minutes (and yes, you can do more, but this gets you 90% of the way on an in-spec trigger group).

I recently restored a number of factory .308 garands which were interesting. They were shortened from the chamber end and rethreaded adn rechambered, with the front end componants shortened as well. Maybe at teh time it made sense, but all the conversions I did (back when .308 was 1/3 the price of .30-06) were just to put on a barnett or criterion match barrel on them. Do NOT (please) use a chamber insert. The military method of doing this involved grooving the chamber and firing a proof load to seat it - and even then I'm not sure it was such a good idea. Locktite just isn't secure enough IMO given the pressures at hand.

If you really want to spend the money, most people agree that the Krieger barrel is king, but it will cost you twice as much, so maybe wait until you can shoot better then your existing barrel.

shlomo
July 19, 2009, 20:40
I've had very good success with the CMP aftemarket stocks on rifles that are to be left JCG legal, and cannot be bedded. However, the last two had rear handguard fit issues inside that had to be relieved before the HG would sit low enough for the retainer clip to lock down. But in general, CMP stocks tend to have very accurate fit to the action, and are as good or better than anything I've seen out of the box.

If I were fitting a match gun, I'd probably go with a Boyd's set. They are somewhat sloppy in action fit, and are a bit oversize, but not grossly so. These are all good things in a match gun that is going to be glassed in, IMO.

The last Wenig stock I saw (two weeks ago, for a team gun) was unimpressive as to the action well mortises. Rough and irregular. Might have been an unfitted one, I dunno. Anyway, it was to be glassed, and so it didn't really become an issue.

The Wenigs are beautiful pieces of wood, but I prefer straight-grain walnut, and the CMP stocks are the best drop-in out there, regardless of money. And they only run something like 140 bucks.:)

gauraprema
July 20, 2009, 06:34
I would love to be able to come and practise at camp butner.I wont be back till next summer though and am a member of the ncrapa which is a cmp recognised club so would that help.If you can help me to be able to shoot there then you are a filer I have to meet.Also if a garand is glassed will it not be able to shoot in garand matches?

shlomo
July 20, 2009, 06:40
Originally posted by gauraprema
I would love to be able to come and practise at camp butner.I wont be back till next summer though and am a member of the ncrapa which is a cmp recognised club so would that help.If you can help me to be able to shoot there then you are a filer I have to meet.Also if a garand is glassed will it not be able to shoot in garand matches?

To shoot in a John C. Garand (JCG) match, your rifle must be "as-issued", meaning that the parts are GI, or GI equivalent. No national match sights, glass-bedded stocks, oversize stocks, and the like.

Some matches have a separate category for match-prepped guns. These are usually called "Modified" class, or something similar. You will have to check the match program to see if there is a Modified class at your match.

gauraprema
July 20, 2009, 06:41
I would love to be able to come and practise at camp butner.I wont be back till next summer though and am a member of the ncrapa which is a cmp recognised club so would that help.If you can help me to be able to shoot there then you are a filer I have to meet.Also if a garand is glassed will it not be able to shoot in garand matches?

shlomo
July 20, 2009, 06:57
Originally posted by gauraprema
I would love to be able to come and practise at camp butner.I wont be back till next summer though and am a member of the ncrapa which is a cmp recognised club so would that help.If you can help me to be able to shoot there then you are a filer I have to meet.Also if a garand is glassed will it not be able to shoot in garand matches?

If that was addressed to me, I am not a member there, and I shoot in N. Georgia. If you are ever going to be around my area, let me know. My club is the shooter's Disneyland in these parts. I live 15 min from the club, and can be convinced to burn powder at the drop of a hat.

There are a bunch of Files members in NC, however, and you may be able to hook up with one of them. Put out a shout in the General forum for them, and see if somebody pops up to help.

Survey Punk
July 20, 2009, 16:47
Just so happens I'm on the Board of Directors of the NCRPA. Look in your newsletter at the board members and check the email addresses and you can figure out which smiling face is mine. :biggrin:
Link to this years Butner rifle events: http://www.ncrpa.org/faq/2009_NC_Matchinfo_rifle.pdf
You could show up at a practice and shoot or if you want to jump in whole hog come for a match! Nice place to shoot with ELECTRIC target frames!

Now if that isn't enough coincidence I've got a little place in Boone.:eek: Been wanting to join the Watauga Gun Club but have been putting it off. They hold 300yd highpower matches and Garand matches both open to the public.

Can you tell I checked your profile and looked you up on Acme Mapper? http://mapper.acme.com/

Sneaky little Booger, ain't I?

JB

W.E.G.
July 20, 2009, 17:15
The Garand can be accurized quite nicely, especially you are willing to spend a shitload of money on a new barrel.

You can probably get better accuracy than the very bestest Garand though with an $1100, out-of-the-box DPMS LR-308.

gauraprema
July 21, 2009, 00:26
Survey punk I sent you a pm.Its awesome that you are ncrapa member.I could lear alot from you and all you others I appreciate your help and advise.I will keep the garand in original configuration but Im sure it will be able to hit at least 600.But if I can hit 600 is another question.God bless alll of you.