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casca
March 23, 2009, 22:25
I am interested in setting up a NFA trust, and I understand that there are a few different ways to go about it. I'd be interested to hear what's worked for others, specifically, would you use a lawyer or Quicken? etc.
Also, is it less trouble to just jump through the CLEO hoops? Thanks in advance.

dirtyrice
March 24, 2009, 03:12
A big advantage of using a trust is the fact that you can add more than just yourself to your trust such as possible your partner and/or kids if you have any. Otherwise only you are allowed to have posession of the firearm.

jaykden
March 24, 2009, 11:40
i formed a trust just for NFA items.

-no fingerprints

-no photos

-no CLEO signoff

-more than 1 person can "own" the firearms


supposedly there is less time involved waiting for a form 1/4 to be approved, since part of the wait is on the FBI checking out the fingerprints.



the MAIN reason i went the trust route is that our CLEO is less than accommodating with regards to the signoff.

ymmv

casca
March 24, 2009, 11:53
Thanks guys. I have come to understand the advantages, but what is the best way to form the trust? Did you use a lawyer?

jaykden
March 24, 2009, 18:44
i just ordered up quicken willmaker from amazon.


it takes you right through it pretty easily.

after you fill it out, just get it notarized. then have it registered with the state (if your state requires it)

URBAN ASSAULT
March 24, 2009, 20:43
I went with Quicken Willmaker 08 from Amazon also, but I got the version with the book in case I had any extended questions.

I think I paid 20-25 bucks.

It worked fine, and thankfully I didn't have to register the Trust with the state I live in.

57 day later I was approved by the BATFE, and now I have an AK-74 SBR.

Now I am getting ready to add my free AAC tattoo promo suppressor to the Trust, and it is even easier this time around.

If you are allowed to do I heartily recommend the Trust method but make sure you do your homework first.

Ask a lot of questions, visit a lot of websites, talk to a lot of people.

Create a checklist of the paperwork you will need to have completed, and check each piece off as you put it together.

Go over your completed Trust a couple times before your final printing to save paper and hassle.

If you make a mistake and don't catch it, there is a good chance the paperwork will be kicked back to you and you get to start your waiting all over again.

Other than the signed form 4's or 1's, don't send any original paperwork to the Feds for review that you can't afford to lose.

When you are approved, put your original paperwork and the approved paperwork the BATFE sends back to you in the same place you keep you birth certificate, tax documents, etc.

Make a reduced copy of your form 1/4, laminate it, and try to keep it with you when you go plinking. If you get braced by a curious LEO about your NFA weapon, having your paperwork on you saves a lot of grief.

Just my $.02

-urban

RT
March 25, 2009, 10:13
with a trust can you build your own NFA stuff (weapons) or do you buy them at orbit prices / and the trust just let's you keep them. you can pm me the answer if you feel better. thanks ~Richard

URBAN ASSAULT
March 25, 2009, 13:48
You can design and build your own suppressor if you wanted to.

You could also legally chop the barrel of a rifle also.

You can make a short-barreled shotgun yourself if you felt like it.

It must be legal for you to own where you live, you must be able to legally possess it, the BATFE has to process and approve all the paperwork BEFORE any metalwork is done, and you have to pay a high fee for each item, but yes... you can construct these things yourself to save money.

And yes, the Trust "owns" the items, you do not. All you do is adminster the Trust.

If I wouldn't have heard about the free AAC suppressor/tattoo promo, I was going to "roll my own" can.

This M4-2000 I'm getting from them will be MUCH better than anything I would be able to cobble together so I'm relieved.

Just the Inconel blast baffles alone are something that I would never be able to replicate on my own.

The bad part is between their projected shipping time of the suppressor to the class 3 transfer dealer and the BATFE paperwork approval, I'm looking at possibly a six-month wait.

-urban

mountainman
March 25, 2009, 14:28
another ? , say you want to develop the best suppressor that you can, would you have to pay stamp tax and all the other legal fees for each attempt? Even if say 1 out of 3 ends up in the trash?

URBAN ASSAULT
March 25, 2009, 18:36
Originally posted by mountainman
another ? , say you want to develop the best suppressor that you can, would you have to pay stamp tax and all the other legal fees for each attempt? Even if say 1 out of 3 ends up in the trash?

You got me on that one.

I don't want to give advice about specifics I'm not completely sure about, but I'm ASSUMING that suppressor projects that go in the trash are generally considered a bad idea.

The Feds are very twitchy about suppressor regulations now, and even commercial vendors have tighter rules that they need to follow.

I would suggest becoming a member of www.silencertalk.com (http://www.silencertalk.com) , and ask the question.

There are some really very good folks there, just like there are here, and they will bust their butt's to help you to be legal AND safe.

-urban

ramrod45
March 27, 2009, 09:33
There's a magazine out called "Small Arms Review" It focuses on class 3 weapons. Good articles on the legal aspect of owning a class 3 weapon. Some lawyers advertise in there about NFA trusts. I live in North Carolina, not one sherriff in any county well sign a form 4, so I had to use a trust to get my suppressors. I've been told by the FFL that I'm transfering the suppressors thru, the BATFE is working on closeing that loop hole of the trust or LLC to transfer class 3 weapons. When I lived in Texas, I transfered one suppressor by the normal means (sheriff signs form 4, finger prints, pass port photo) and everything went just fine, me personaly I prefer the regular way because you own the class 3 weapon, not the trust. Which ever way you choose to register your class 3 weapon, you better get it done now. I think this democratic administration well remove your ability to buy a class 3. Only the military, cops, and criminals well be able to own a suppressor or machine gun. Good luck

NC Rifleman
April 20, 2009, 15:44
Regarding setting up a revocable trust as discussed, I looked into the process and found the forms/templates available for anywhere from $30 on up depending on the source. Are these "kits" and such like the Quicken brand discussed above just as "legal" as having it drawn up by an attorney? If so, could I not just draw up my own form based off someone elses trust document in my state(AZ)? Mainly looking at it for holding toy purchases but will more than likely want to add other personal property to it as well. Thanks

ramrod45
April 21, 2009, 21:08
The person that drew up my trust included some verbage unique to North Carolina state gun laws. The form 4 also has some special words as well. I started out with Quicken, and ended up going with an attorney. I feel a whole lot better about the legality of the trust. Play it safe and hire a NFA friendly lawyer to generate the trust. It's a one time thing.

dirtyrice
April 28, 2009, 14:18
Originally posted by mountainman
another ? , say you want to develop the best suppressor that you can, would you have to pay stamp tax and all the other legal fees for each attempt? Even if say 1 out of 3 ends up in the trash?

You would have to register each one. It does not matter if it breaks or you screw it up. If your intent is to create ANOTHER suppressor. Another tax stamp better be in your possession.

I'm assuming there is probably a point at which your piece of pipe stock stops being a piece of pipe and becomes a suppressor. But I don't know at which point this would be. You should consult an sot or manufacturer about this. Definitely having a bunch of baffles inside of any kind of threaded cylinder would be illegal without the proper stamp.

If you want to play R&D with suppressors your best bet is to become a manufacturer and start paying an sot along with other fees. This makes the process a little easier. And then you can sell them :)

Plus yes don't throw registered pieces of iron in the trash.