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View Full Version : BAYONET ANYONE?


kayakpirate
March 10, 2009, 16:32
Whats the deal with my bayonets? My Garand and carbine both,when mounted with original, WW2 PAL and Imperial bayonets, wiggle and clank around like they're on strike for the union or something.Not at all tight.Why so loose? Is it age?The bayonet brackets on the handles are in decent enough shape.Did those guys run around with their rifles sounding like it has a dixie land jazz band attached at the end? Really doesn't inspire confidence when you think about what the circumstances were like that they were SUPPOSED to be used in,( whacking away,slashing and stabbing) I know for the most part they were just expensive crowbars,but still,damn! I have an M5(Imperial as well ) for my Garand that seems like it was made for it,well,it was...but you get my point...Point,its a pun.Man...I'm on fire today.
Also on bayonets,The bayonet on my Russian 1951 SKS is just plain useless.I think the only way they could be used is to mark a gravesite,and even then it would take a pretty good shove.Thing couldnt open a letter.

Chalk_2
March 10, 2009, 19:58
I'd like to know the answer to that also. My Garand bayonet has lots of wiggle, but I can take that same bayonet, put it on my 03A3 and its snug.

aardq
March 10, 2009, 22:15
Simply a matter of minimum and maximum dimensions. Most bayonets probably have the max diameter to insure it will fit. It doesn't take very much "slop" to make them rattle and seem loose, but they will stay on the rifle. The last bayonet for the Garand used a stud that fit the end of the gas plug instead of a ring around the barrel.
Have no idea how often they actually mounted bayonets in or before a battle.

The US teaches using the bayonet as both a stabbing and a slashing weapon. The Russians use it as a stabbing weapon, thus it doesn't have to be real sharp.

Hope this helps
Dan

kayakpirate
March 10, 2009, 22:39
Thanks for the input.In regards to the russian bayo...I cant imagine it not bending in half on a heavy field jacket.I mean the thing is like a butterknife.I love that little SKS,but I wouldnt have wanted to hear "Fix bayonets" with that thing on the end of my rifle.
There is a fair amount of "slop" with the U.S. bayo's.The NO.5 is the gas plug variant you refer to.Its rock solid,and with the M-3 style knife blade, it makes for a real fighting attachment.Choke up on the forearm,and its pretty damn fast.
But the loose fit of the early models,just seems wrong.

shlomo
March 10, 2009, 23:40
Bayonet anyone?

Not for years. At least nobody I can recall.

kayakpirate
March 10, 2009, 23:50
No doubt.But what was the deal with the old bayonets? why were they so loose,or useless in some cases? I mean they took the bayonet serious enough back then.Why werent they better attached?The blades are of great design,definitly do a number,if it didnt fall off. I have a beautiful Mauser bayonet
Thats rock solid and built for violent use.But ours,as developed as they were,just arent that strong.I guess they must have worked and all,but how amazes me.

Charles Lipscomb
March 11, 2009, 04:38
in 1989 when i got my first M1, i bought an M1 10'' uc made bayonet for 29.95 from SOG.. it was well used but in good shape. but i had the same problem. it was loose on my rifle.
i was ordering parts from GPC, (numrich), and ordered a new ''bayonet hinge bar''. i put it in my bayonet and really noticed a difference. all the back and forth slop was gone, tho it was stll a little oose side to side. .
another thing about the m1 baynet is the barrel ring is larger so it will fit the 03 springfield as well. when i put the same m1 bayonet on my 03 it is snug all around....
my point ? try a new hinge bar.... or peen the one you have to tighten it up.. just a thought...

A square 10
March 12, 2009, 19:01
you need to think in terms of condition of use , in the trenches , in the mud-sand-snow you need something that will mount quickly , lock securely , and perform , at the time of use a little rattle isnt an issue ,

that said , if i mount one of my krag bayonets to my M1903s or my M1garand its a very tight fit , my M1905s are looser , just a change in thinking and a learning curve over the years

kayakpirate
March 12, 2009, 20:33
Wow!Thanks guys,I apperciate your info.This whole thing is like a science in itself.Again,many thanks!

mace2364
March 27, 2009, 17:33
Originally posted by shlomo
Bayonet anyone?

Not for years. At least nobody I can recall.


Actually, a unit in the British Army fixed bayonets in 2003 while taking Baghdad. I believe some US army and Marine units did the same. I can tell you that on all 3 of my combat tours between Iraq and Afghanistan I carried one.

Not to get off topic, but a bayonet has alot of other uses other than the "fix and stab routine". I have found them to be invaluble in controling prisoners. If you have an unruly prisoner, usually all you have to to is fix your bayonet. It tends to get the point across that you mean business. I guess the pshycological difference being that while not everyone knows what it's like to get shot, everyone knows what it feels like to get cut.

In a pinch you can also use a bayonet in leu of a mine probe.

Just a few thoughts for you there.

BC
March 28, 2009, 00:08
Originally posted by A square 10
that said , if i mount one of my krag bayonets to my M1903s or my M1garand its a very tight fit , my M1905s are looser , just a change in thinking and a learning curve over the years

My Krag bayonet fits my Springfield 1903 rifle perfectly. New rifle could use old bayonets. I've always thought that makes sense.

Tailback
March 29, 2009, 22:26
For those of you that "Pooh-Pooh" the bayonet as an unecessary inconvenience... The British staged a very successful bayonet charge during the invasion of Iraq when a unit became very low on ammo. It was as successful as the charge by Chamberlain on little round top in the Civil War for mostly the same reasons. For some reason the Iraqis that would trade bullet for bullet didn't like the idea of a bayonet in the guts.

Ron Walker
March 31, 2009, 19:59
In regards to the russian bayo...I cant imagine it not bending in half on a heavy field jacket.I mean the thing is like a butterknife

You need to chat with some of the frozen Chosin Korean War Vets. the comments I have heard from them didn't indicate they thought it was a "butterknife". It got the job done as many of our guys went home in coffins from the human wave attacks. Ron

Chalk_2
March 31, 2009, 20:44
The bayonet that came with my Mosin 91/30 is no joke, you could pin a guy to a tree with it.

Blood of Tyrants
March 31, 2009, 21:49
It was all tolerances. The M1905 and M1905E1 and M1 bayonets were all originally designed to fit the M1903 rifle. In a goofy bit of "money saving" it was decided that the Garand would use the same bayonet and thus dimensions were altered on the Garand to fit the bayonet.:rolleyes:

US bayonets were not designed for slashing. Ever notice that the edges aren't sharp at all?

Timber Wolf
April 05, 2009, 20:01
Originally posted by mace2364
In a pinch you can also use a bayonet in leu of a mine probe.


There's one use I hope none of my bayonets is ever put to.

kayakpirate
April 06, 2009, 10:41
Just watch"Kellys Heros" for training on the procedure.Don Rickles is a true warrior.

skwang
April 06, 2009, 19:02
Originally posted by Tailback
It was as successful as the charge by Chamberlain on little round top in the Civil War for mostly the same reasons.

That man was one heck of a solder.

crcksht
April 09, 2009, 08:51
Originally posted by kayakpirate

Also on bayonets,The bayonet on my Russian 1951 SKS is just plain useless.I think the only way they could be used is to mark a gravesite,and even then it would take a pretty good shove.Thing couldnt open a letter.

That's nothing a file, a stone, and some elbow grease won't fix.

kayakpirate
April 09, 2009, 15:11
I've dealt with a few different blades,and,well...you'd have to see this. The blade itself looks like it wasnt supposed to be sharpened,and the point looks like it wasnt suppose to poke anything.Very thin,and fragile.Also the point end has a rounded kind of construction that looks like that was its reinforcement.But also makes having a real point almost impossible as you'd actually be backing the point back,making the end even "rounder" (?), if you tried to shape it.This has to be the most non-threating bayonet I've ever seen. Although it locks up like a car door to the carbine itself.Locks in and clicks in tight when you fold it in,or extend it.Very serious on the manipulation of it. Maybe they were trying to save weight and went too far?

Build it right.
April 28, 2009, 10:51
M1 and M14 bayonets were typically loose. The idea behind this was that a little loose is better than a little too tight especially in muddy conditions.

Soldiers in Vietnam would sometimes (mostly night missions) wrap electrical tape around the bayonet lug and then put on the bayonet.

Honestly, being quiet is the last concern if you are slashing and stabbing face to face. Not being able to get a bayonet on that is a little too tight would be a worse problem.

carbinedaily
May 09, 2009, 17:15
My FN49 Bayonet is rugged and well crafted. Best of all it fits 'gut un tite' on my parkerized battle rifle. Don't mess with the business end on this FN49 rifle.

lew
May 09, 2009, 18:40
Originally posted by carbinedaily
My FN49 Bayonet is rugged and well crafted. Best of all it fits 'gut un tite' on my parkerized battle rifle. Don't mess with the business end on this FN49 rifle.

The FN49 is tied with the L1A1 for best looking with the bayonet affixed.

jimc
May 17, 2009, 00:58
I picked up one the the long blade L1A1 bayonets with the sawback blade. That is one intimidating bayonet, especially when it is on the rifle. Super sharp tip. Not a bad cutting edge either.