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Orion6
March 07, 2009, 13:07
Got it last month NIB from AIM.

Took it out with bright clean Lith ammo. Did single shots starting at 7 and the bolt won't come back any further than about 1/2 inch.

Gas plug is set properly, it just won't extract, even on 1. Full mags, single shots, nothing will extract.

I'm not happy about my $1200 paperweight. Any ideas?

Topbanana
March 07, 2009, 13:27
Did you adjust the gas system around at all?

brownknees
March 07, 2009, 13:37
Maybe.
Is the recoil tube free of grease, binding, or obstructions?
To test, break open the rifle & run a cleaning rod with "T" handle in/out to cycle the springs a couple of times. They should be stiff, progressively stiffer as the springs compress, but smooth. When slowly removing it should also be smooth with no "jags". BEAWARE! these are strong springs, take reasonable precautions so you don't get treadmarks across your face.

Is the bolt/carrier running freely, or is something hanging up inside?
To test run the bolt & carrier fully back & forth in an UNLOADED rifle with the magazine removed.
The action should not "snag" at any point. There will be spots of resistance as the bolt unlocks & so on, but it should cycle fully from closed & locked to fully rearward.

Is the gas port unobstructed internally?
To check. Screw the front sight FULLY IN counting the number of "clicks" & write the number down somewhere.
Now fully unscrew & remove the front sight pin & the spring underneath it.
THe port & areas can be checked fpr crud with a streight paperclip. If there's crud in there clean it out.
To re-install the front sight without losing zero.
Screw in fully, now back off the number of clicks you wrote down earlier.

These are a good starting point for troubleshooting.
Try 'em & let us know what you find & we'll help out more as you eyes & our brains sort this out for you.

Orion6
March 07, 2009, 13:47
Yep went from 7 to 1. Nada.

I'll check all that, but I think it's a tight chamber or a burred chamber. I had to really jerk on that sucker to get a couple to eject.

brownknees
March 07, 2009, 14:03
It's not that unusual to get a case that failed to fully eject rammed back in there really tight.
What happens is the case is partially extracted, expanding as it can. Then the springs ram it back in, causing what you're experiencing.
You could check this by turning the gas OFF. Then fire a round & cycle manually.

fastback65
March 07, 2009, 17:48
I am sure you have checked the gas plug to be certain it is oriented in the right direction. I have overlooked that in the past.

cbr954fz1
March 07, 2009, 18:57
i had the same thing happen to me recently w/a imbel carbine that i built and the problem was that the headspace was too tight so i took it out filed it down a thousand and eveything functioned perfect after that.. i actually broke my usa charge handle because when the empty case was so tight in the chamber..the gas system you can check but being a new fal i would not rule out the locking shoulder.. just my .02 ...cbr:fal:
ps i also enlarged the gas port hole in the barrel..

W.E.G.
March 07, 2009, 19:38
More gas.

Anytime a case partially-extracts, and is then RAMMED BACK IN THE CHAMBER, it will be hell to get it out if you are just yanking on the charging knob while the rifle is on the bench or in your lap. WECSOG pogo will usually be the least aggravating method of extraction when this happens.

Orion6
March 07, 2009, 20:07
Just cleaned her up, nothing obvious. I am no FAL expert, but I am a gun guy and everything is correct (gas plug oriented correctly), piston not binding.

Guess it's back to DSA. Dang. :mad:

dfletcher
March 08, 2009, 01:41
Originally posted by W.E.G.
More gas.

Anytime a case partially-extracts, and is then RAMMED BACK IN THE CHAMBER, it will be hell to get it out if you are just yanking on the charging knob while the rifle is on the bench or in your lap. WECSOG pogo will usually be the least aggravating method of extraction when this happens.

I can attest - I had my STG gas setting too low and that's exactly what happened. Good thing I brought a rubber mallet to the range. AFter maybe 150 rounds or so things smoothed out, I don't think I've had a stoppage for thousands of rounds. But the first few hundred were truly depressing.

Quick question for the OP - do you have a scope base installed or plain old cover?

Orion6
March 08, 2009, 09:33
Plain cover.

One thing I noticed - the gas dial is very easy to adjust. It clicks but it is not a bear to adjust (a la using the tool) like other FAL's I've seen.

What could be causing the lack of gas?

brownknees
March 08, 2009, 10:52
Lack of gas going IN to the system.
Port open & clear?
Passages inside gasblock open & free?
Plug set correctly (& of the correct type) There are several patterns of internal routes, depending on the plug.

Leakage in the gas system.
Plug leaking from fit to gas block.
Block leaking at barrel junction.
Gas regulator backed off too far? ( Beileve it or not the gas adjusting ring can be set ONE FULL TURN too far off. If this has happened it'll "read" correctly, but the vent will be set below the highest vent setting.) If there is ANY of the vent showing with the ring "closed" then this might be you problem. Hey it's worth trying.
Check by turning the gas regulator all the way in (closed) till it stops & then try again.
Gas piston too loose a fit in the gasblock & tube (causes blow by of the gasses instead of working the action.)

W.E.G.
March 08, 2009, 11:01
If the gun is brand-spanking-new, you are dealing with a lot of friction.

Sit in front of the TV, and hand-cycle it a thousand times.

UNLOADED.

While you're at it, smooth the sharp edges on the receiver feed-rails.

Test it again.

If its still short-cycling, get a common 7/64 drill bit, and drill the gas port.
This will increase the port size an extra 0.015"

Solves most not-enough-gas problems.

Drill at the red arrow, not at the green arrow.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/FAL%20parts%20pics/gasportlocation-metric.jpg

Mark your drill bit so you don't drill into the opposite side of the barrel.

Common carbide drill bit.

Remove front sight post, fixing plate, spring, and gas plug, gas piston before drilling.

Drill set on highest speed setting.

W.E.G.
March 08, 2009, 11:05
Do you have a SOLDERED gas tube?

Blue Monster
March 08, 2009, 11:25
Sit in front of the TV, and hand-cycle it a thousand times.

W.E.G. is absolutely correct, 90% of issues reported new FALs are simply solved by doing this.

This advice should be in a mandatory sticky!

Orion6
March 08, 2009, 11:29
It's soldered, I don't see the nut.

It's POSSIBLE I had the regulator down one full turn (possible I say). If so I'm an idiot, but I HOPE it's that simple. I don't think that's what it was but I am not too proud to admit it if that's what it was.

I'm cycling it now. I'll take her back out this weeka and hopefully it will work.

WEG - the hole you showed looks clean and normal.

brownknees
March 08, 2009, 19:37
If you're an id10t for doing this, then so am I.
It's really easy to do accidentally, even at the factory.
Everything looks right, but the gas system just won't ajust for beans & the nut is real easy to turn as the shallower cut ridges on the front don't catch on the spring as firmly as the deeper ones further back.
**psst! don't ask HOW I know*** :biggrin:

Blue Monster
March 08, 2009, 20:14
:confused:

Orion6
March 09, 2009, 19:36
Ok, I think the regulator might have been one full turn out -

BUT , it only functions reliably on 1. It's tight, but shouldn't it run on 3-4?

DSARep
March 10, 2009, 08:06
If it is new and very tight, then it may take several hundred rounds to break in. My para needed at least 400. Run it a bit and see where you end up on the gas settings. Also try more than one kind of ammo as that can dramatically change the gas pressure.

John

Orion6
March 10, 2009, 08:34
Thanks, I'll keep at it.

brownknees
March 10, 2009, 10:09
Also try more than one kind of ammo as that can dramatically change the gas pressure.
What he said, plus.

I've had my (non-DSA) FAL run with 2~3 clicks difference just depending on ammo.
I've also found that surprisingly small differences can make a change to the gas setting that works.
Mine came with an StG type gas plug, which I didn't like, so I swapped it for one without the little lever, the gas asetting changed by 2 (4 clicks).
The original gas piston was replaced by an Imbel one on an emergency basis, the gas went down by 3 clicks. I replaced that with a US made compliant one & it went up by 4 clicks.

Just trying to give you a frame of reference here, as in how many clicks is caused by what?

Whatever you do give the rifle a chance to break in & settle down first, as it will change as that happens.

W.E.G.
January 01, 2010, 21:36
Bump because of http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2787188#post2787188


OK, so what is the status of this rifle?

Is it working,... or not?