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Hellion Productions
March 06, 2009, 08:54
Hello, fellow Filers,

I'm going to be the proud papa of a Classic Stainless/Synthetic Winchester 70 this weekend. CRPF, 24 inch barrel, .338 Win Mag, with BOSS. Unfired. I'm going to build it up to be my "Half-Mile Hammer."

At $3 per loaded cartucho, though, I'm going to have to pick brass wisely for when I start reloading this beast. Any suggestions for my first 100 rounds of loaded ammo, so I can start my stash?

Short term plans: I'm going to put some DCIgnition bottom metal on it, to take AICS mags, and put a nice scope on it, maybe take it elk-hunting someday.

If I ever hit the lottery, or maybe shoot the barrel out (I'll probably go broke first), I might switch it over to .300 RUM, .338 RUM, or .338 Edge someday. We'll see.

Any other input you might have on this rifle, I'm all ears...


UPDATE: I've been working up loads, and am enjoying this rifle. It's going to be updated slowly over the next few months. New stock, new optics, mostly.

Best,
John Bear Ross

hagar
March 06, 2009, 09:08
You can also use 7mm magnum brass and neck it up. My 338 performed admirably with the Sierra 250 grain bullets, it penetrated 4 feet of AZ Elk and left a nice 2 inch wound channel, but did not spoil any meat. Don't remember my exact load info, something like 63 grains of Accurate 4350.

Back in 1998 Walmart had a sale - 338 mag ammo loaded with 210 grain Nosler Partitions for $12/box. And I only bought 6 boxes, but I still have all of it.:sad:

W.E.G.
March 06, 2009, 10:07
Advice for shooting the .338 mag in a sporter rifle?

Make sure you don't have any loose fillings.

gunseller
March 06, 2009, 10:28
Congrats on the rifle. 338s are not bad to shoot and less with the BOSS system. Even 375 H&Hs are not bad. Step up to a 416 Rigby with a hand load doing 2600 with a 400 grain bullet. That gets your attention. Try several bullets and see what your rifle likes the best. Even with the BOSS it will like one weight better than others. Don't get too much scope, I like 3-9X40 as the biggest on a hunting rifle. I know you must be able to see it to shoot it. Top of 12 or 14 power would be all you could ever need even out to 1/2 mile.
Steve

rbswyo
March 06, 2009, 11:41
338 WM brass is not expensive. just buy brand new Win. or Rem. brass.
R19 is by far the powder of choice for the 338WM.
generally adjust my sizing die to neck size only.
i've had several 338's both Ruger M77 and M70's, both rifled at 1 in 10" to stabilize 250 gr. bullets,which was the intent of the original cartridge design. i've used it for everything from warthogs to elk and eland and shot many hundreds of rounds.
you'll likely hear a lot about whiz bang 210 and 225 gr. loads, but this defeats the purpose of having a rifle in this cartridge. its made to send a heavy bullet with good trajectory and energy far down range.
IMO if you're using less than 250's, you may as well use one of the 300's and save your shoulder some pain.
favorite bullet is the Speer GS 250 gr, which has a protected tip.
Hornady's, either the 250 gr. RN or the SP, are also good performers.

Hellion Productions
March 06, 2009, 16:40
Originally posted by W.E.G.
Advice for shooting the .338 mag in a sporter rifle?

Make sure you don't have any loose fillings.

Understood! :beer:
Physics is on my side...I knew those years of cheeseburgers and beer would pay off. I've become quite the stable firing mount over the years...heh.

Thanks for all the advice, gents. I'll post pics when it's in my hot little hands.

Best,
JBR

tac-40
March 08, 2009, 12:22
John,

After seeing some of the hand cannons you own, wouldn't it be cheaper and easier on the body if you bought a surplus pack 75. Still have the range and CLOSE would count.:rofl: :wink: :rofl: :wink:

Can't wait to see the pictures.

Hellion Productions
March 10, 2009, 15:42
Originally posted by tac-40
John,

After seeing some of the hand cannons you own, wouldn't it be cheaper and easier on the body if you bought a surplus pack 75. Still have the range and CLOSE would count.:rofl: :wink: :rofl: :wink:

Can't wait to see the pictures.

Mr. Tac-40: I'm John Ross in Nevada, not John Ross in Missouri. My biggest hand-cannon is a P220, in relatively-weak .45 ACP (vice .500 Magnum). Sorry if anything I wrote led you to that conclusion. It's why I use my middle name, Bear, in my posts.

Wife has the camera, so I can't post pics yet. Serial number is G105XXX, from New Haven, CT. 24 inch barrel. BOSS has a muzzle brake. Pitch on the BOSS, by the way, is 5/8x24 RH. Factory stock is pretty light, and will have to be beefed up. I also have a couple ideas for making my own stock after looking at this feller's sight... http://www.pdccustom.com

Best,
John Bear Ross

rbswyo
March 11, 2009, 17:19
bear,
this is what i use and highly recommend;
http://www.hsprecision.com/shop/stocks/pss

"Any suggestions for my first 100 rounds of loaded ammo, so I can start my stash?"

for paper 250 or 300 gr, sierra match.
for hunting 250 gr. speer grand slam.
powder R19

brownknees
March 11, 2009, 18:56
Watch out for that muzzle climb, Eugene!:]

Ron Walker
March 12, 2009, 14:09
Watch out for that muzzle climb, Eugene

You might have a problem if shooting a .375 as that picture shows, or it could be a .416. A .338 is NOT a heavy recoiling rifle, unless you are very sensitive to recoil. I love, build, and shoot the big bores (.416 and up) and even they don't hurt if the rifle is properly configured, and has appropriate weight, and the shooter is properly conditioned to handle recoil, and I don't use muzzle brakes on mine, either. I'm always amused by those who think a 300 or 338 recoil is heavy, yet go bird hunting with a 12 guage 3 or 3.5 magnum and shoot all day, and never say a word. Recoil is 90% in the mind, and the rest is physics and ergonomics. Ron

Clark
March 12, 2009, 14:19
I went to the range once with my 338 semi and 250 gr.
I got between 2 and 4 moa.

It does not kick hard with a limbsaver recoil pad.

brownknees
March 12, 2009, 19:17
Mainly I find that holding the rifle correctly, starting at the feet, is the best answer.
I fired that same rifle & got about 1/2 the climb. & I only weigh 145.
Mostly big bores will just try to push me out of the way, so I lean forward slightly & let 'em push.:biggrin:

MACV
March 18, 2009, 14:17
Originally posted by brownknees
Watch out for that muzzle climb, Eugene!:]

Damn that guy is handsome. If wasnt straight.............hey Im just sayin

MACV
March 18, 2009, 14:27
Originally posted by Ron Walker
Watch out for that muzzle climb, Eugene

You might have a problem if shooting a .375 as that picture shows, or it could be a .416. A .338 is NOT a heavy recoiling rifle, unless you are very sensitive to recoil. I love, build, and shoot the big bores (.416 and up) and even they don't hurt if the rifle is properly configured, and has appropriate weight, and the shooter is properly conditioned to handle recoil, and I don't use muzzle brakes on mine, either. I'm always amused by those who think a 300 or 338 recoil is heavy, yet go bird hunting with a 12 guage 3 or 3.5 magnum and shoot all day, and never say a word. Recoil is 90% in the mind, and the rest is physics and ergonomics. Ron

Its a 458 win mag. And the recoil is not 90% in my mind. It thumps you.
Personally I think a 338 kicks more than a 375 H&H. The 338 is a sharp kick vs the push a 375 gives you. Its not that punishing but your not going to want to shoot a 20 round box of shells out of it in one sitting.

brownknees
March 18, 2009, 14:31
Well I had to post a handsome looking fellah to go with the handsome looking rifle:bow:

Dirt1042
March 18, 2009, 15:49
I put a limbsaver butt pad on my Rem .300 RUM. It toned down the slam a little bit. You just have to remember to snug up your hold on the rifle while shooting and make sure you get the correct eye relief on the scope:biggrin:
I've got a couple of half cirlce scars between the eyes to prove I learned that the hard way:rofl:

splattermatic
March 18, 2009, 19:02
the elk huntin thugs will aggree with me.

a 338 win mag KICKS ! plain and simple, no bull.

i have loaded down some 250 grain round noser's to about 2500 fps, for use in the elk woods.
great thumper, i use h4831 in mine.

i also have quite a few box's of pmc eldorado 225 gr. barnes xlc's that came with the rifle when i bought it.

it's a ruger model 77 mk II, the only ruger i own, i've had bad luck with ruger accuracy about 6 times in my life.

i got to shoot this one before i bought it, and it's a keeper.
a friends 338 like rldr 15, i tried his loads and mine didn't.

good luck, trying bullet/ powder combo's is great fun......

here's a 3 shot group with mine with the pmc fodder. 1st round fouler out a clean barrel and the group.

splattermatic
March 18, 2009, 19:13
here's the beast.
it sports a luppy 2.5 - 8, which I think is perfect for the power and range of a 338 win mag.

you stated you want to use it long range ?



a 338 win mag., is NOT really a lr type cartridge per say.
if you use light for caliber bullets, it'll move em pretty good. now to try a high bc heavy bullet in one, let's say a 225 or 250 grainer, your only gonna get about 2900 fps from a 225. depending on the gun and if it has a fast barrel or a slow one, maybe a lil more, maybe a lil less.
those velo's aren't really lr producers.
get on the major powder makers web sites, or get some loading manuals, and check out what it'll do...
a 338 really shines when driven well over 3k fps, like a 338 rum, 338 lapua,340 wthby, 338 edge, etc...

now for a medium/ close range thumper..... it performs great, thumps whatever it hits.

good luck

Dirt1042
March 18, 2009, 20:04
Thats a nice lookin rig, Splat:bow:

splattermatic
March 18, 2009, 21:09
thanks.
i like wood !
the plastic stock it used to wear is in a closet.

it seems to kick less with the wood, than with the tupperware.

i really do like this rifle, every time i shoot it, it's right where it's supposed to be.

now that he brought this 338 mag stuff up, i think this is gonna be the next one i start loading some proper elk ammo for.
hmmm, a 225 tsx ? a 200 accubomb ? sierra's ? noslers ?

i'll get back to this thread when i get going. i gotta finish the 300rums i'm working on, then the 300 wsm's.

oh, and h.p., check the opening of your winny, i'm not up on them, but i am not real sure a rum class cartridge will fit. it may have a mag "block", that make the mag the size of the round,as 338 wm's are 30-06 length. that'll have to be removed, and maybe the bolt stop ground on to get the bolt face to come further back, when ejecting.

Ron Walker
March 18, 2009, 21:23
Its a 458 win mag. And the recoil is not 90% in my mind. It thumps you.

When I was working up loads for my 450 Ackley Magnum ( for you newbies, that's a 375 H&H necked up for the 458 bullet, although I used 416 Rem Mag cases instead. 500 gr bullet at about 2400 fps), I often shot 30 rounds at a time with no ill effects. Of course, I had designed the rifle to mitigate recoil. Large straight comb butt, Pachmeyer 1"Old English Pad, 11# rifle. My shoulder was not bruised at all after such sessions, nor even sore, and I was shooting from an upright sitting rest on the bench. It was a joy to shoot, but you knew when you pulled the trigger. As I said, recoil is all about conditioning yourself to handle it. I know of a 90# Lady that hunts Cape Buffalo with a 375 and is deadly with it. I consider my 338 Win Mag to be a medium bore rifle. Ron

Dirt1042
March 19, 2009, 11:44
Originally posted by splattermatic
thanks.
i like wood !
the plastic stock it used to wear is in a closet.

it seems to kick less with the wood, than with the tupperware.

i really do like this rifle, every time i shoot it, it's right where it's supposed to be.

now that he brought this 338 mag stuff up, i think this is gonna be the next one i start loading some proper elk ammo for.
hmmm, a 225 tsx ? a 200 accubomb ? sierra's ? noslers ?

i'll get back to this thread when i get going. i gotta finish the 300rums i'm working on, then the 300 wsm's.

oh, and h.p., check the opening of your winny, i'm not up on them, but i am not real sure a rum class cartridge will fit. it may have a mag "block", that make the mag the size of the round,as 338 wm's are 30-06 length. that'll have to be removed, and maybe the bolt stop ground on to get the bolt face to come further back, when ejecting.

I do like the wood stock on it, I kept the synthetic on mine, did you know the the Remington synthetic buttstocks are hollow? I looked at that and couldn't believe it. I packed some styrofoam peanuts into it and sprayed some of that foam in can stuff in there as well to fill the void and to dampen things a bit.

On your bi pod is that just 550 cord or bungee? I've seen that done and that makes sense to me.

brownknees
March 19, 2009, 11:57
A couple of thoughts on heavy recoil mitigation.

If you are shooting from a bench (like when sighting in), have the rifle high enough up off of the bench so you are almost vertical from the waist up. It makes a HUGE difference to felt recoil where you have the buttstock placed on your shoulder.
If in doubt fire one round like this, then lower everything as low as possible, lean into the stock at an angle & fire one more round.

Be aware of where the right hand is. It's really easy to stock climb & get the "nuckle up the nose" syndrome. That will literally bring tears to your eyes.

Be extra aware of the possibility of the flinch as you fire. It'll seem to multiply recoil several hundred percent. It seems to be an unconsious thing, but still lets the buttstock get a running start before it whacks you. I did a test a while back where we had several big bore shooters fire a round with a light taped to the muzzle with the camera set on "time exposure" All the shooters who complained of recoil had a distinct back then up trace from the light, all the ones who weren't complaining had a curving up & back trace.

Want to check if you have a flinch? Load 3 rounds, one being a dummy, placed randomly in the mag by someone else. if you "twitch" when firing the dummy, you have a flinch.

I've also found that sideways body angle is a big factor in felt recoil, square on being lowest, & increasing as the body rotates more diagonally.

Ron Walker
March 19, 2009, 12:49
Excellent advice, Brownknees. When I first started shooting as a teenager, I thought a 243 kicked bad. In reality I didn't know how to properly address recoil. Then came a stint in the Army, and several range trips shooting the M14 with a steel butt, I began to catch on. As you accurately point out, it is all about training yourself the proper technique to handle the recoil. I actually enjoy shooting my 338 more than my 300 WinMag, although I have considered getting a second barrel for it in 375 Ruger. Ron

splattermatic
March 19, 2009, 18:30
it's just some colored cord of some sorts to go with my likes of neon colors. i even have hot pink ear muffs !
it comes in handy, pull on the near leg and the other follows, sure easier than pulling one at a time down.

and i aggree guys, heavy recoiling rifles sure make you more aware of where what is, what your doing, and what may make contact with your face or off hand... like the bottom of the pistol grip when your off hand is behind it gripping the stock or bag....get me alot...

the hollow stocks don't bother me, i like to keep things as light as possible, getting old,wondering mountains, and a heavy rifle don't all go together.

enjoy your 338 they are great all around rifles. you can run em hard for bit stuff or down load em for lil creatures.

if you want some reduced loads loading data for it, let me know.

splattermatic
March 19, 2009, 18:58
and when shooting with a swollen face due to a sinus infection, and bending at the waist, while shooting to the side, a 338 wm WILL bite you.....

Para Driver
March 19, 2009, 19:39
Originally posted by gunseller
Congrats on the rifle. 338s are not bad to shoot and less with the BOSS system. Even 375 H&Hs are not bad. Step up to a 416 Rigby with a hand load doing 2600 with a 400 grain bullet. That gets your attention. Try several bullets and see what your rifle likes the best. Even with the BOSS it will like one weight better than others. Don't get too much scope, I like 3-9X40 as the biggest on a hunting rifle. I know you must be able to see it to shoot it. Top of 12 or 14 power would be all you could ever need even out to 1/2 mile.
Steve

pretty true, with big rifles you have to 'feel the embrace'.. grip the rifle very firmly and pull it very strongly into your shoulder.. this way you and the rifle MOVE AS ONE, instead of the rifle slamming you. It also helps to round off the edges of the recoil pad so they do not cut you. Some guys even have 2-3 pounds of lead shot bedded into the buttstock, a 7 pound rifle hurts, period.

if the muzzle climb slams the stock into your cheek, consider mag-na-port, although your BOSS should do the same thing.

I dig the big guns, although 338 is barely considered 'medium' compared to the 375, 416, 404, 458, 450 Ackley, and the 500 A-Square. I have shot them all, and hunted with them all. IMHO the 375 H&H is the best all around magnum out there, and suitable for everything except Elephant and Cape Buffalo. Unless you're planning a trip to Africa, your 338 will be all the rifle you ever need.

As for a scope, I've had good success with the Ziess 3x9, if you like them. Last time I checked they were about the same as a Leupold. The Ziess has a rubber ring to prevent/minimize scope kisses. I also like the WARNE Magnum rings, they just stand up better to the recoil.

splattermatic
March 19, 2009, 20:35
boddington says a 338 wm will out penetrate a 375 !

Hellion Productions
March 20, 2009, 00:36
oh, and h.p., check the opening of your winny, i'm not up on them, but i am not real sure a rum class cartridge will fit. it may have a mag "block", that make the mag the size of the round,as 338 wm's are 30-06 length. that'll have to be removed, and maybe the bolt stop ground on to get the bolt face to come further back, when ejecting.

Thanks, Splat. The mag box does seem to have a spacer towards the rear. I've seen aftermarket mag boxes that can take RUM length cartridges. We'll see.

Other than that, I appreciate the advice, especially on the scope. At an average of 2800 fps, is the trajectory of the average factory .338WM 225 or 250 gr load similar to any Milsurp loads? A lot of scopes I'm looking at have Ballistic Drop Compensator reticles for .308 or 5.56. If the trajectories match, might they be one possible answer?

I'm not trying to hit out at 1000 meters or more, 800 max (max-max-max), so a 8 or 9 power will probably do me fine. Hell, I might put a 1-4 Leupy or IOR/Valdada on there if I go dangerous game, or close-in brush-hunting (bear, feral hog, etc.).

As for loads, I'll be calling on you when I get my reloading bench set up, and start pressing out cartuchos.

Best,
JBR

brownknees
March 20, 2009, 09:58
I'll run it thru my ballistics prog & post the results.
(W.E.G. just luvvs my ballistics table posts.) :biggrin:

brownknees
March 20, 2009, 10:49
Here's the chart. I'm not sure how well the image will post given the size compression.
I made some assumptions to get the ballistics table to give me a graph, most of them visible in the top panel's boxes.
The 150gr .308 FMJBT at 2850 is vitually identical to the .338 250 gr BT.
The 225gr develops a bit more drop as the range extends. I'm guessing because of a lower BC.
Based on this I'd say anything set up for a .308 150gr FMJBT will be so close you'll never notice the difference in practical terms.

The red line is the 250gr @2800fps

the blue (1) hardly visible, is the 150gr .308 @ 2850 fps.

the blue (2) is the 225 gr .338 @ 2800 fps.

Hellion Productions
March 20, 2009, 13:09
Beautiful graphic, there, Brownknees...

That really helps a lot for scope selection and range/drop estimation. .308-type trajectories and I have a long history together.

Best,
JBR

Hellion Productions
September 24, 2010, 21:25
Small Update:

I just cranked out 3 dozen of my first reloads today. I just followed the directions in the front of my reloading manuals, and things turned out pretty nicely.

Recipe: 250gr Sierra Gamekings, over 71 grains of IMR 4831. Winchester brass and Large Magnum primers. I only lost two pieces of brass due to rookie madness. I fired out the first 12 rounds, and found no signs of high or excessive pressure. Those near-max loads pack a whallop, but I'm enjoying recoil more and more since I bought this beast.

I'll shoot for groups and BOSS tuning tomorrow.

Best,
JBR