The FN/FAL Recoil Buffer

[Hanover Phist]

Do they really do anything, or is it just one more thing to toss in the trash can at the gun range? :fal:

[chiefd]

Have used one with my G-1 since I got it. Love it! Here is the test: shoot a mag without it; then shoot a mag with it - you should notice a real difference. But YMMV.

[J. Armstrong]

This is an ongoing topic with strong reactions on either side of the fence. Try a search, but be sure to have some time to read :D

I like them. Hell, if $10 - 15 saves ANY wear on a sevral thousand dollar rifle, I'm on it !. I have had zero reliability problems using a buffer - if you experience a problem, there is almost always something that needs sorting out in the rifle, not the buffer. Some worry that it compromises reliability. I have had no problems, but I do check the buffer before each range session - if one gets loose or sheds pieces , it certainly wouldn't be helpful !!! In a SHTF scenario, it only takes a sec to pull the buffer if you are not entirely comfortable with it.

I personally don't feel all that much diff in recoil - just a tad less "edgy" maybe, but then I'm not recoil sensitive ( within reason :D ) and I generally run my FALs at minimum gas setting for casual shooting.

[kotengu]

In all honesty I don't think they do anything if your gas is adjusted properly. I put one in an aluminum-lowered carbine years ago because I was worried about extra wear on the lower. Many rounds later it looks like it hasn't been touched (most likely because it hasn't!). If the gas is adjusted properly the carrier should never touch the recoil plate.

All that being said - I still have it in there. It doesn't hurt anything and there's been no reason to pull it out. I go back and forth with myself everytime I clean it, but I always put the thing back in. It's not really necessary, but it's not hurting anything either. I can think of worse things I've blown $10 on...

[Cobrafreak1]

I used to use them in 1911 autos and they would get the crap hammered out of them and leaving the frame pristine. I love these buffers. I have them in everything I shoot. I made one from scratch out of a chunk of polyurethane that I had laying around that garage for the FAL. It should last forever and the gun is very smooth in recoil. Takes the shock out. -John

[SIG552]

If your 1911 buffers are getting destroyed you need to replace both your recoil spring and your mainspring.

[MAINER]

Make one out of leather for a trial run. If it's getting wacked, adjust your gas or get the offical version.

[Hanover Phist]

Awwww heck. I’ll just get one. After all it couldn’t hurt. Thanks all.

[Cobrafreak1]

I said "crap hammered out of them", not "destroyed". They never wore out in the 1911's I used to own years ago. The springs as well as the 1911 were factory new also. -Cobrafreak

[StoneyCreekMrMauser]

I like the ones in my 1911s and my AK too. Not that either needs to be any more reliable, but who cares?

Can't say I like the little thing that goes in AR lowers though. I could not get that rifle to close on them without cutting off 1/4" of material and squeezing the hell out of it.

[arakfal]

I just had my FAL barrel cut down to 18" and had the hole gas port hole drilled out and my rifle still holds the bolt back on an empty mag even with the regulator on 7(wide open), I have tried 4 different gas pistons and 3 different gas plugs with the same results, I am thinking I should probably put a buffer in, just for peace of mind since I really don't know what else I can do, I am using Winchester white box, just thinking that my gas port hole is probably too big. Any advice.

thanks in advance

[MAINER]

Ya might try a new set of recoil springs, don't cost much and it can't hurt anything.

Tried measuring the gas port?

[arakfal]

No I haven't measured, but I am going to invest in some new recoil springs.
Maybe a buffer as well

[millerphys]

The science supports it, that why we sit on cushions, and use suspension systems on cars, trains etc.

While the total energery imparted by the bolt carrier with a certain velocity and mass (= momentum), we can however change the time over which this energy is disperced into the lower .

Force x TIme = Change in Velocity x mass

In this case we want to lower the force felt by the lower receiver, etc. So that means we need to change one of the other variables in this formula.

Since Delta V x Mass is set by the gas system we can't change that. So that leaves us only with Time.

If we increase the time over mass is slowed down from a velocity, then we lower the amount of force imparted to the receiver per unit of time, or impulse.

Change in Velocity (Delta V) x mass / Time = Force.

The cushion of the buffer increases the time over which the velocity of the bolt carrier slows to zero.

example 10 / 5 =2 verse 10/10 = 1 A larger time equals a lower force applied to the lower.

Physics lesson over. :bow:

[nalioth]

Originally posted by millerphys
Physics lesson over. :bow:

Here's the reality lesson:

When you introduce a foreign object (no matter what it's made of) into a mechanical device for which it was not designed, you open up Pandora's box to any number of unforeseen issues.

[DakTo]

When you introduce a foreign object (no matter what it's made of) into a mechanical device for which it was not designed, you open up Pandora's box to any number of unforeseen issues.

I believe if the machanical device was designed not to receive the buffer than you are correct, however the recoil buffer was designed to fit and function properly therefore it is a matter of choice if you wish to install it.

[PigPen]

Aw, now nalioth, where would we all be if John Moses Browning has thought like that?

PigPen

[brownknees]

Since Delta V x Mass is set by the gas system we can't change that.
Why on earth not? The FAL is one of very few rifles where you can do exactly that.
Open the gas too much & it'll short stroke, close it too much & the bolt & carrier hammer into the back of the lower.
You sure aren't changing the mass, so all that's left to change is the Specific impulse of the gas system, which in turn gives variable Delta-V to the bolt & carrier.

[newton3407]

Brown Knees is right. And it is the same physics described previously.

This post contains all of the information necessary for someone to decide to use a recoil buffer or not. The real question is, how on earth can we still be talking about this thread after 6 month?
But then again, the FAL design is over 50 YEARS OLD and we still find ways to talk about it everyday!:fal: :beer: :fal: :beer:

[millerphys]

I use a recoild buffer in my guns for the same reason I put a receiver or other gun assembly on a soft surface before I go banging on it with a hammer.

Plus I use a soft brass hammer to once again, "soften" the blow by increasing the impact time.


Yes, you can lighten the recoil impulse of a FN, but it still doesn't change the distance over wich the bolt carrier goes from fast to zero. It beats the receiver.

Since most guns aren't full auto, this isn't a major concern, but my guns are investments of time and money. So I baby them.

END OF THE WORLD, no, I would skip the buffer to prevent it from coming loose and gumming the works.

[ggiilliiee]

MR POGO????...the science guy ???heheh ..try a video cam on the uncovered action as i have many times ....mine dont hit ...
.....
0³x9er>(½ þ †ß°)=bullshit

:wink:....dont try to out think the "ole man "...JMB...not gonna happen ..ehhehe

[ce]

He walked 47 miles of barbed wire.
Got a cobra snake for a necktie.
He don't put a rubber ducky in the action.
He so smooth he don't need traction.
And then he drove a Plymouth Satellite,
Faster than the speed of light.
Who do you love?
Who do you love?

[L/FN]

I hope millerphys didn't waste too much time on his lesson cause it's hogwash!

As mentioned, the gas pressure to operate the action IS adjustable.

Another point is distance of travel.
Assuming the carrier can travel the full distance of the receiver to hit the lower, by installing a buffer, your reducing the distance of travel unless the buffer will compress completely flat.

By reducing this distance of travel, your create other problems.
Less time for cartridges to advance in the magazine and for the magazine follower to actuate the BHO unit.

Less recoil spring compression which equals less travel distance and speed to strip a round from a magazine.

Save your money and buy some ammo to adjust your FAL properly!!

Larry aka
High school dropout
and FAL parts builder and designer extrordinair!!

:rofl: