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GripItRight
January 31, 2009, 15:05
Newbie here! Going on one year.
Oh, I started years ago as a shooter on Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon game (http://www.ubi.com/US/Games/Info.aspx?pId=1037) and I’m a crack shot now! LOL

I have other guns but I want a rifle with the battle proven reliability of the FAL. There are comparisons of the FAL rifle to others (http://www.militaryfactory.com/guns_comparison_detail.asp), e.g. M14, M60E3, HKG3, M240; and it has some history (http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/falhistory.htm). I chose a DS Arms built SA58 Bull Barrel FAL (http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-FAL-Bull-Barrel--Rifle-308-Cal/productinfo/SA58B21CM/). And if it becomes a good, long-range shooter (http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/longrange_shooting/shooting_hunting.htm) then maybe we can do some competitive shooting (http://www.nationalmatch.us/), some big-game hunting (http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/122101325), or if we need to take care of zombies (http://ebrsopmods.proboards100.com/index.cgi?board=returnfire&action=display&thread=1317) or more (http://forums.areyouprepared.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=817).

For this FAL, I am pursuing improvements to accuracy in three parts:
PART 1 - Research information to improve accuracy
PART 2 - To develop and learn the accuracy of the firearm
PART 3 - Then, develop and learn the skill of the shooter

PART 1 - Research information to improve accuracy (IS DONE)
I browsed many websites to read evaluations of equipment, tools, parts, supplies, ammo, optics, techniques, group-buys. I’ve been reviewing threads on forums like FALFILES (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=228153&highlight=careful), SNIPERSHIDE (http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=754651&page=2), CALGUNS (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf), AR15.COM (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=7&t=169575), DS ARMS wait time (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=319&t=167730), WARRIORTALK (http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=12451&highlight=anthony+rifle+fal%2A), SURPLUSRIFLEFORUM (http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45700), LONGRANGEHUNTING (http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/) and others for many months. Why so long? I had to wait for my rifle order to be filled. So I used the time to get familiar with the FAL before it arrived. And it is not enough time really, LOL (31 weeks). For anyone else who is waiting, I recommend doing the same as I, RESEARCH.

I GOT THE FAL RIFLE YESTERDAY – The one on the left.
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk440/gripitright/IMG_0090.jpg

See the NP3-treated parts?
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk440/gripitright/IMG_0092.jpg

The FAL in it’s case.
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk440/gripitright/IMG_0093.jpg

A. Chose a model designed for long range accuracy. (A stock FAL <2 moa?)
- a. High-power, big caliber e.g. starting at .308 Win
- b. Bull barrel rigidity
- c. 21” barrel length for velocity
- d. Free-float tube, hand guard to reduce distorting pressures
B.Modifications to improve accuracy (<1 moa?)
- a. Match-Grade-Set Trigger Job (http://www.dsarms.com/gunsmithing.asp)
- b. NP3 treated internal parts (http://www.dsarms.com/np3.asp) for easy cleaning and maintaining tight tolerances
- c. Stabilize with a short bipod (http://www.dsarms.com/Versa-Pod-Model-49-Super-Short-Prone-Bipod/productinfo/KF150049/) and a rear monopod (http://www.site-secure.biz/accushot/catalog/index.php?cPath=21)
- d. Barrel break-in with special-purpose ammo and proper procedures (http://www.davidtubb.com/tcom_images/downloads/break_in_article_new.pdf)
- e. Open the rails per Ggiilliiee (http://community-1.webtv.net/ggiilliiee/GGIILLIIEESRAIL/)
- f. Stop brass kisses per Ggiilliiee (http://community-1.webtv.net/ggiilliiee/FALRIFLEEJECTOR/)
C. Practice safe, firearm handling procedures and understand some gunsmithing
- a. Be familiar with the firearm’s functions, designs, and safety checks
- b. Understand internal ballistics (http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/happens-fire-gun-1.php)
- c. Review schematics and parts lists to identify parts on/off the firearm.
- d. Review a training DVD and videos to learn disassembly, cleaning, reassembly, and modifications. I recommend the instructional DVD from the American Gunsmith Institute (AGI), called the “Technical Manual and Armorer’s Course: FN-FAL Rifles by Instructor: John Bush” (http://www.americangunsmith.com/view.php?id=38)
- e. Check headspace and periodically check the tightness of the locking shoulder (http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45700)
- f. Be familiar with common problems and troubleshooting tips, e.g. FAL gas system (http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=54281), FTF/FTE (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108077), more checks (http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=205110)
D. Keep records of your guns with you at the range (I use a binder, divided up)
- a. Copy of Bill of Sale, DROS
- b. The gun’s manual
- c. Pertinent tips and research
- d. Ammunition purchase log, round-count log, and ballistics data
- e. Previous range reports of your gun/shooter performance
E. Create a reproducible range report on the computer
- a. Download a picture of the target from the target manufacturer
- b. Embed the picture of the target into an MS Word document
- c. Lay bullet-shot images on the target to match the real target results
- d. Review training-simulation DVD “ShooterReady?” (http://www.shooterready.com/) to practice mil dot ranging
- e. Have a range card with bullet ballistic data, e.g. range, elev, winddrift
- f. Update the range report with data, e.g. atmospheric conditions, range, elevations, wind, light, comments

PART 2 – (RANGE REPORT #1 WILL BE COMING – NOT SOON ENOUGH, LOL)
To develop and learn the accuracy of the firearm.
A. Develop techniques for long-range shooting with benchrest-shooting accuracy (http://www.6mmbr.com/1000ydpg01.html) (<1 moa?)
- a. Barrel break-in with special-purpose ammo and proper procedures
- b. Use a rifle vise to eliminate shooter fatigue from the recoil
- c. Use a level to eliminate cant inaccuracy
B. Shoot (Range Report #1), record results and evaluate factors
- a. Keep data on the ammo, environment, and rifle performance
- b. Verify 100yds ballistics drops and wind-drifts (http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/cgi-bin/jbmcard-5.0.cgi))
- c. Monitor strays and stringing e.g. magazine feeding, barrel heat-up, stresses
- d. Create a range report of the results

PART 3 – (RANGE REPORT #2 WILL BE COMING – TOO SOON!) Then, develop and learn the skill of the shooter.
A. Develop techniques for off-hand-shooting accuracy (http://www.shootingtimes.com/longgun_reviews/mark_091306/index.html) (<1 moa?)
- a. Use a known-accurate FAL rifle
- b. Practice good shooting techniques, e.g. natural point of aim, relaxation, breathing, sight picture, trigger pull, etc.
B. Shoot (Range Report #1), record results and evaluate factors
- a. Keep data on the ammo, environment, and rifle performance
- b. Compensate for ballistics drops and wind drifts
- c. Compensate for strays and stringing that are caused by known factors
- d. Create a range report of the results

If I get some glass I'll probably go to Liberty Optics (http://www.libertyoptics.com/index1.html) and get a Premium Heritage (http://www.premierreticles.com/index.html) or an IOR (http://www.valdada.com/product/bd3f97a0-1fb3-4f22-82b8-bf4456bccc1b.aspx).

:biggrin:
Grip

Cameron
January 31, 2009, 21:12
WOW! :eek:

Jaxxas
January 31, 2009, 23:56
Originally posted by Cameron
WOW! :eek:

+1

DSARep
February 02, 2009, 09:02
Very thorough and most impressive. I will look forward to your range reports!

Thank you for your purchase!

John

W.E.G.
February 02, 2009, 09:37
Shooting is a fun hobby!

GripItRight
February 05, 2009, 04:12
Went to the range today. Here’s a few pics:
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk440/gripitright/IMG_0095.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk440/gripitright/IMG_0096.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk440/gripitright/IMG_0097.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk440/gripitright/IMG_0098.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk440/gripitright/IMG_0100.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk440/gripitright/IMG_0101.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk440/gripitright/IMG_0102.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk440/gripitright/IMG_0103.jpghttp://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk440/gripitright/FALRR1.gif
Range Report Summary: I need improvement but this rifle is sweet!!
Not the recoil I thought and I won’t need the gun vise. The rifle is rock-solid stable on the bi-pod with the knobs tightened down. The rear monopod screw allows a fine-adjustment to the elevation to the point of a bench-rest platform. And the bubble-level on the top rail keeps the cant down. The sight picture of the front-sight post is the width of the black rings (8” dia.) at a range of 100 yards. Haven’t shot offhand yet but I can probably get a good minute-of-man with practice. I got 3-4 moa for the first try. But I think I need a riflescope to really try the rifle’s capability.

One problem I see is the brass neck of the cases are getting bent up. Cases are hitting the top rail and brass-particle deposits are left behind. I read GGUUIILLEE’s FIX but I believe he was working on a G3 and the photos show parts that look different.

:D
Grip

DSARep
February 05, 2009, 08:51
While FALs tend to be mild in terms of recoil anyway, the heavy barrels really do have a major impact on felt recoil. I can even see some difference between the medium and standard contour, although I still prefer the standard. Those bull barreled guns are real easy shooters, and capable of some really good accuracy with quality ammo. As many members know the AMU has been a customer, and they have been very happy with the performance of our sharp shooting oriented SA58s. WIth some optics on there and accurate ammo I think you will get the results you are wanting.

Thanks again for the posts!

John

GripItRight
February 05, 2009, 18:27
AWESOME

Thanks John,

:)
Grip

tonyt
July 06, 2009, 13:50
GripItRight,


Great review. I would post some pictures too if I could only figure out how?

My only question, and it something that always gets people mad as hell when asked, is do you guys think 3-5 MOA is sufficient on a $2,000 designated marksman rifle or even battle rifle?

Before you go on the attack, I have a DSArms Para Carbine with extended scope cover and rail interface hanguards and love it. My only frustration is accepting 3-5 MOA when all the other semi automatic rifles I own shoot closer to 1-2 MOA. Referencing M1A NM, M16A2 and M4.

To put this into perspective, my M1A will easily put all bullets into the 10 ring at 100 yards when using any type of quality factory ammo. So, when you consider that 4 MOA is roughly 4 inches at 100M it is pretty reasonable to expect to miss targets beyond 200M - consistently. So what is the point of a .30 rifle when you can't hit anything beyond 200m?

There will be a reply that it is a 'battle rifle' and this should be expected...I disagree. My FAL isn't any more reliable than the above mentioned firearms but at $2,000 plus, I expect it should be both accurate and reliable.

I have searched and it appears that everyone is getting about 3 MOA so I wonder if anyone is getting better?

James
July 06, 2009, 22:58
Money sometimes doesn't make a gun shoot better.

I have an FAL that has over 20,000 rounds down the barrel and not long ago I shot just about a 2" 5 shot group at 100yds with open sights. It's an Imbel built on a STG 58 kit. I paid $600 for it 10 years ago. What I have found out is that most guns will perform better than the one shooting it. In other words most people can't shoot for many different reasons. Take GripItRight's gun. Somebody else shoots it they may get a 1.5 to 2 inch group. Somebody else may get a 5 inch group. His gun may shoot better when it has a a few down the bore. Once he gets use to it he may do a lot better.

GripItRight in my opinion you should paste a 2" orange(or other color) dot on the center of your target. You have way too much black in there to get a good group at 100yds. That 2" orange dot will let you concentrate specifically on that 2 inches compared to trying to find the center of that 8" black circle(or however big it is). Try that and see if it helps.

James

tonyt
July 07, 2009, 08:48
That's a good suggestion. When I shoot beyond 50 M I always paste an orange ring in the middle of my target. All black target does make it hard to focus on the same spot at range.

W.E.G.
July 07, 2009, 09:01
Thread back from the dead.

James
July 07, 2009, 13:07
Originally posted by W.E.G.
Thread back from the dead.

I didn't even notice the date. Last night was the first time for me to see the post.

James

AndyC
July 07, 2009, 18:58
Originally posted by tonyt
I have searched and it appears that everyone is getting about 3 MOA so I wonder if anyone is getting better?
Check out this thread (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=241840) re the search for FAL accuracy.