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Jaxxas
January 29, 2009, 14:05
Asking for donations from all for a very worthy cause...........me! :biggrin:
(just joking!)


Seriously now, Iím in the thinking stage of my next fun project, which due to the economic downturn might take me a year or so to come together, but thatís OK, I donít want to rush it, and the planning stage is kinda fun! Although Iím a very mechanical kind of guy my Ďgun buildingí experience so far has only been re-barreling a couple 10/22ís and assembling a few ARís and some 10/22ís, so I would appreciate any and all advice involved in all aspects of the project from itís totally stupid through the whole gambit of recommended vendors, gunsmiths, brand names, links, doís and doníts, economics, better approaches or whatever. I have a pretty good idea of what Iím looking for but I want to remain open to the possibilities.


I'm looking to get into a .308 heavy barreled kinda varmint/sniper/benchrest LH bolt action rifle. Gotta be left handed! A friend has a real nice FN-SPR with a great Leopold mounted on it, and I would like to get into something that approaches its capability without its real nice price in the neighborhood of $4K. Iíve considered (and still might) just buying outright a decent heavy barreled .308 and add a nice scope, which could be done, but it wouldnít be as much fun, and my safe is already bursting at its seams! Also the selection of LH rifles is fairly limited. So what Iím thinking is I have an old (late 70ís), but in damn near perfect condition Remy 700BDL LH with a whip thin sporter type barrel in .270 (certainly < 1000 rnds) that I havenít shot in probably 10 years or so, and maybe getting it re-barreled to .308. This gun is very accurate, I used to load for it years back, with its best ever 3 shot group of .75Ē at 200 yds, but I donít really use it now, and the resale value seems meager given the value of a solid LH action. I suppose I could sell off the old barrel and stock to help fund the project, but donít really know if there is much of a market for these parts.

So what I think I want is, .308 caliber just so I donít have to stock another caliber of ammo. I like SS barrels and I donít care that it doesnít match the receiver, something in the neighborhood of 26Ē. I like the Bell & Carlson adj type stocks or similar. And then topping it off with a nice (brand name?) scope, and that maybe this rig would wind up costing me in the $2K neighborhood and be capable of sub moa (assuming match ammo)?? And honestly I looked around the web quite a bit and now I have more questions than answers. Some of these things Iíve never heard of!


So whose barrel do you recommend? Rate of twist? Type of rifling? Number of grooves? Truing and squaring the bolt? Blueprinting the receiver?? Which gunsmith or barrel maker for installation? Lapping the lugs? Do I need a new bolt or can mine be re-worked? What type of magazine options would be available to me? All about bedding or the lack thereof? Which scope, with lotsa zoom (old eyes), that's bulletproof and most bang for the buck? Picatinney rail for the 700BDL? Other things I haven't considered??


All help, advice, knowledge, links, criticism is appreciated!

mj2evans
January 29, 2009, 19:52
I am no expert on rifiling types (rachet vs. regular) but I can say the cheapest method is likley start with a Savage 10FP 308 and get a decent stock for it. Savage factory barrels and hand loads will get you MOA and less but their stocks blow. You could start with a Stevens (budget Savage) and get a new custom barrel (not sure Stevens has a heavy barrel).

There are a lot good barrels out there - Shilen makes a prefit Savage barrel and you can install Savage barrels yourself. Douglas, Wilson, Krieger, Broughton (sp) are all good - all it takes is money. Read up on single cut vs. button rifling. Avoid Adams & Barnet.

Unless you drop a grand I think the Super Sniper scopes are tough to beat for the cost and mil dot reticle. Nikon Moarch are good too for a little more money.

MAINER
January 29, 2009, 19:57
I think your first step is to find a builder. Preferably one that specializes in the type of rifle you want to end up with. Shop around and check references. Try to find examples of their work. Talk to their customers.
Decide what level of accuracy you want. Teeny tiny groups come at OMG prices. Blueprinting and such is not necessary for an MOA rifle, if a quality barrel is properly installed. One quarter MOA groups require a lot more squaring of the action and barrel, lapping lugs and all that stuff.

Bottom line. Find a "Smith" you trust, tell him what you want, ask him lots of questions, get it all in writing.

I like ER Shaw's barrels, but you would probably do better with a Badger.
http://badgerbarrelsinc.com/index.htm

Good luck! Be sure to post pics! :biggrin:

Jaxxas
January 30, 2009, 01:01
Originally posted by mj2evans
I am no expert on rifiling types (rachet vs. regular) but I can say the cheapest method is likley start with a Savage 10FP 308 and get a decent stock for it. Savage factory barrels and hand loads will get you MOA and less but their stocks blow. You could start with a Stevens (budget Savage) and get a new custom barrel (not sure Stevens has a heavy barrel).

There are a lot good barrels out there - Shilen makes a prefit Savage barrel and you can install Savage barrels yourself. Douglas, Wilson, Krieger, Broughton (sp) are all good - all it takes is money. Read up on single cut vs. button rifling. Avoid Adams & Barnet.

Unless you drop a grand I think the Super Sniper scopes are tough to beat for the cost and mil dot reticle. Nikon Moarch are good too for a little more money.

Thanks for the help!

I just looked at the Savage, it doesn't come in LH. I've heard good things about them though.

I will take a look at the different barrel makers, thanks for their names, some I hadn't heard of.

I also looked at the Super Sniper, and I think it's a winner. Great price, great features, I don't think I need variable power as I won't be shooting close up with it ever. Lifetime warranty. Mil-spec designed. Unless I get rich or something more attractive comes along, its on my list!

Jaxxas
January 30, 2009, 01:16
Originally posted by MAINER
I think your first step is to find a builder. Preferably one that specializes in the type of rifle you want to end up with. Shop around and check references. Try to find examples of their work. Talk to their customers.
Decide what level of accuracy you want. Teeny tiny groups come at OMG prices. Blueprinting and such is not necessary for an MOA rifle, if a quality barrel is properly installed. One quarter MOA groups require a lot more squaring of the action and barrel, lapping lugs and all that stuff.

Bottom line. Find a "Smith" you trust, tell him what you want, ask him lots of questions, get it all in writing.

I like ER Shaw's barrels, but you would probably do better with a Badger.
http://badgerbarrelsinc.com/index.htm

Good luck! Be sure to post pics! :biggrin:

Thanks for the reply!

I'm undecided between letting a barrel maker do the whole job, or buying a barrel and getting a smith to do the work. Definitely some more homework finding the right people!

On the accuracy, I would love OMG, but I think I can live with sub-moa! If I could hold less than 5" at 500 yards I'd be happy! Less than 3" and I'd be ecstatic!

I've never even heard of blue-printing an action before. But it sounds as though truing the action and lapping are necessary!

I'll check out ER SHaw and Badger!

Here is the before pic! The donor 700BDL LH!

MAINER
January 30, 2009, 15:38
If you're getting into the precision rifle realm, you might want to reconsider using that "long action" Remy for a .308 Win. and find a "short action" something or another. Short actions have less flexing.

That pic doesn't look like a "whippy" barrel to me? If it were me, I'd sell the .270 and buy something closer to what you want.
Maybe?
http://www.snipercentral.com/entrypackage.htm

Actually, I'd rebore that rifle to 30-06, dump the white spacers, put an flat oil finish on it and have a pretty close retro copy of the M 40 Sniper rifle we had in the '60s.

Jaxxas
January 30, 2009, 17:25
Originally posted by MAINER
If you're getting into the precision rifle realm, you might want to reconsider using that "long action" Remy for a .308 Win. and find a "short action" something or another. Short actions have less flexing.

That pic doesn't look like a "whippy" barrel to me? If it were me, I'd sell the .270 and buy something closer to what you want.
Maybe?
http://www.snipercentral.com/entrypackage.htm

Actually, I'd rebore that rifle to 30-06, dump the white spacers, put an flat oil finish on it and have a pretty close retro copy of the M 40 Sniper rifle we had in the '60s.

Well poop! Something I never considered! Heard the terms short and long action concerning the 700, I guess I should have asked more questions! Suppose that's what the planning stage is all about. Glad you are here to keep me honest!

Maybe the barrel just looks whippy compared to its safe mates! I'll measure it tonight.

The M 40 looks great! 30-06 though, I gotta re-think this whole nother caliber thing. 30-06 is the only other caliber I would really consider. It can take bigger bullets! So I guess I either step up to 30-06 or get another rifle..... hmmmmm...

I like that package at Sniper Central, though I don't know anything about Howa's, but I emailed them and Mel says they don't make it in a left hand model. Left hands are left out again!

Here's an interesting LH rifle

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/left-hand/model_700_VSF.asp

Now if I sold the 270, bought this Remy and the Super Sniper, I could probably be out the door for around $1500, well under my $2k number.......

more hmmmmm....

MAINER
January 30, 2009, 19:38
I like that Remy. Checked out Weatherby's sub moa Vanguard. Great rifles with guaranteed accuracy, but no lefties. Howa is a sleeper in my opinion, well made and outstanding accuracy for an inexpensive factory rifle. They also make Weatherby's Vanguard Sub MOA series.
Pretty limited selection for left hand shooters I see. Never noticed as I'm right handed.

Something to consider if you plan on shooting much beyond 600 yds is a scope base with built-in elevation, usually 20moa. All depends on how much your scope can handle.

$500 will get you some ammo or reloading equipment, a case, bipod and other good stuff. :D

Lee Carpentieri
January 31, 2009, 08:21
I had heard through the industry that Weatherbys are made in the USA totally now. Supposed to be made by Saco-Lowell which is now a subsidiary of General Dynamics. The Savage M110 tactical would out shoot my Remington 700 and for a couple hundred less in retail price also. True about the Savage stocks though. Got rid of both rifles when I bought my Steyr SSG-69 P-1 as the Steyr outshot them both out to 600 yards and now that I just bought a FN 30-11 and as soon as I get over this Flu bug that my wife gave me I'm going to take the FN out and see what it can do. Ask Fal files member Splatter-matic as he's built some nice bolt guns as of late also along with the rest of the gang on this thread.

MAINER
January 31, 2009, 09:13
Like to see a pic of the FN 30-11. I've never seen one. The Mauser would be my first choice for any bolt gun. A win. m 70 would do nicely too.

The FN PBR that WEG posted a while back is jdoing just fine by me. :love:

Jaxxas
February 02, 2009, 15:53
Originally posted by MAINER
I like that Remy. Checked out Weatherby's sub moa Vanguard. Great rifles with guaranteed accuracy, but no lefties. Howa is a sleeper in my opinion, well made and outstanding accuracy for an inexpensive factory rifle. They also make Weatherby's Vanguard Sub MOA series.
Pretty limited selection for left hand shooters I see. Never noticed as I'm right handed.

Something to consider if you plan on shooting much beyond 600 yds is a scope base with built-in elevation, usually 20moa. All depends on how much your scope can handle.

$500 will get you some ammo or reloading equipment, a case, bipod and other good stuff. :D

I think overall the Remy is my best bet. I do like Weartherby's but I'm going to hold out for a lefty, though my friends tell me I nuts! I'm actually right handed, I only shoot left handed, or more accurately said I'm left eyed! I can manipulate a right handed bolt, it's just awkward because I'm out of position. I figure if I'm going to pay that kind of money I should get what I want. It's only bolt actions that are problematic, most other action types are usually no problem. But you do learn to appreciate the lefty's plight when you start to meddle about in it.

I've emailed Hart (barrels) to check out the 30-06 conversion. I going to wait to hear from them before I do anything else. But barring some new revelations I think I best figure out what my 270 is worth and get it sold.

I don't know if I'll ever go beyond 600 yds, can you add the 20 moa later?

I will probably get back into reloading, but when I do, I'm going straight to a progressive. Most places I've been have zip on the shelf, couldn't reload if I wanted too! Sign of the times I'm sure!

FAL GRUNT
February 03, 2009, 22:16
My suggestion is find a smith with a decent reputation for Remy 700's and building accurate rifles. I have a buddy I would refer you to... be he won't be able to do a build until 2010 for you.

My suggestions... any smith SHOULD so the following

Square up receiver ring
lap bolt lugs
Turn, fit, and chamber barrel

I've always heard the term "blueprinting" when referring to the 700 actions, but no one has ever given me a good description of WHAT this means.

After that it is a matter of making or buying a stock and picking out the accessories. Trigger, scope mounts, scope, etc.

If you are shooting .308 and are unsure what you will be shooting buy a Shilen 1 in 10 barrel. This lets you use pretty much any .308 bullet available. If your doing bench, etc, get a heavy contour barrel, otherwise a #3 or #4 will suit you.

JMHO

-myers

MAINER
February 04, 2009, 09:56
Quote;
"I don't know if I'll ever go beyond 600 yds, can you add the 20 moa later?"


Sure! Wouldn't be a problem.

Ron Walker
February 04, 2009, 14:21
I just looked at the Savage, it doesn't come in LH. I've heard good things about them though.

Since when? Or are you refering to a short action rifle? Look in the Manufacturer code# for the rifle for an "L". I have a Lefty Long Action in my safe. First group was 3/4" with a medium heavy barrel and Winchester Silver box ammo. Ron

Jaxxas
February 04, 2009, 19:59
Originally posted by Ron Walker
I just looked at the Savage, it doesn't come in LH. I've heard good things about them though.

Since when? Or are you refering to a short action rifle? Look in the Manufacturer code# for the rifle for an "L". I have a Lefty Long Action in my safe. First group was 3/4" with a medium heavy barrel and Winchester Silver box ammo. Ron

I'm looking for a .308 (short action) heavy barrel in left hand. I've shot a couple of Savage heavy barreled rifles with the accu trigger and they are sweet, but I'm really wanting a .308 lefty.