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mountainman
January 13, 2009, 18:48
OK, I think that shooters solutions is the one that most of you guys will vouch for? If not then ring in with you favorite brand. I have another question. I am interested in not buying the kit. I want to buy some acetone for degreaser. I'd like to blast the parts and then dunk it in acetone and straight to the fizz tank. Now I hear that if I let the parts sit in used motor oil it will develop a richer and better finish and this also acts as a rust stop solution ( do I still have to buy gallon of WD40?). I guess that charging handles are best hung by the lug hole, handles by the detent hole using a hook and lugs just need to be hung by the head. Thanks folks, good thing about this place is no one clobbers you for asking simple questions.

viperb2
January 13, 2009, 20:08
Mountainman,

I use Brownells zinc phosphate. Haven't tried any other brand.

To degrease, I use laquer thinner, and/or isopropal alcohol.

For the post tank bath, I've been using WD-40 in a 36" wallpaper tub, then back into the degrease bath to get rid of any water that the WD may have clung onto in the nooks and crannies.

Have used varying methods for the final oil down. Most frequently used is a generous wipedown with breakfree, but recently I tried 30wt motor oil on a few parts and was quite pleased with the dark color that resulted.

Hanging/suspension of parts in the solution all depends on the size/configuration of the parts and size/configuration of your park tank. You'll have to experiment with what works best for each situation.

Eventually you'll find what process is easiest and what gives you the best results.

Wosrt case, if you don't like the looks of the end result, start the process over!

Hopefully this is some of the info you were looking for, and good luck in your parking endeavors.

viperb2

shlomo
January 13, 2009, 20:59
Shooter's Solutions Manganese park, made up at double the recommended concentration, will render a finish that is nearly black. No need to resort to alchemy with after-rinses or certain types of oil baths.

You are a wise man to go straight from the blast cabinet to the acetone bath (I prefer lacquer thinner), and straight from there to the park tank.

Keeping another tank of boiling water works well as a rinse, and has the advantage of flash-drying from heat when removed from the tank. No need to wipe water off before applying oil.

Any sort of oil seems to work fine. I've used WD, gun oil, 3-in-1 oil, and BreakFree, with identical results.

I think you are right to just buy the solution, and not the kit. Get two 32 oz containers if you plan to use a large or long tank. Gotta have enough to cover the parts.

SS park solution is dead easy to use, with no "activation" using steel wool, or any other foreplay. Mix it to concentration with distilled water, heat it to temp, dump in prepped parts. When they quit fizzing, they're done. Rinse. Oil. Assemble.

Also, no need to suspend parts in the tank. I've done a buncha stuff with this solution, and have never had anything come out with a funky spot from contact with the tank walls.

L1A1rocker
January 13, 2009, 21:10
Good advice. I use the Manganese also. I just leave it in longer with the solution at recomended strength. On the oil, I use regular 30 weight motor oil and dispence it from an old fashoned thumb pump oil can.

mountainman
January 13, 2009, 21:16
why do I have to rinse?

JeepsAndGuns
January 13, 2009, 21:23
I am new to this. I have applied duracoat with decent results, but I really like the look and feel of real parkerizing.
How hard is it to do, what all is required. Or, is there any good online writeups you can point me to that explains it all pretty good?
I would really like to re park my STG58 kit, and I have a mix master grarand that has a refinished receiver, but several of the other parts are not. I would like to make them match.
I hope I am not hijacking you post.

shlomo
January 13, 2009, 21:38
Originally posted by mountainman
why do I have to rinse?

Presumably to stop the action of the solution and to get the chemical (phosphoric acid IIRC) out of the pores, so the oil can set in. I have never seen this explained that way, but I think it's right.

shlomo
January 13, 2009, 21:50
Originally posted by JeepsAndGuns
I am new to this. I have applied duracoat with decent results, but I really like the look and feel of real parkerizing.
How hard is it to do, what all is required. Or, is there any good online writeups you can point me to that explains it all pretty good?
I would really like to re park my STG58 kit, and I have a mix master grarand that has a refinished receiver, but several of the other parts are not. I would like to make them match.
I hope I am not hijacking you post.

Covered and batted around in some detail here:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=243639

Ring in with any questions afterward. Glad to help if I can.

mountainman
January 14, 2009, 08:29
ah ha

shlomo
January 14, 2009, 08:35
Originally posted by mountainman
ah ha

Ah-cha-a!

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g310/overlord1138/Coming-to-America-em13.jpg

Scott S
January 14, 2009, 14:23
Originally posted by JeepsAndGuns
...
How hard is it to do, what all is required. Or, is there any good online writeups you can point me to that explains it all pretty good?
...

Here's my park-on-the-BBQ-grill write up for do-it-yourselfers. It's post #5:

garage/backyard parkerizing (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113627)

mountainman, regarding suspension of small parts, for small stuff like pins, HTS, etc, I use a stainless steel kitchen strainer. I dump the freshly-blasted parts in the strainer, and then dip the strainer into the park solution until the parts stop gassing. I give the strainer a shake or two now and then to make sure the parts get complete coverage. For larger parts, I have a stainless steel cake cooling rack that sits in the bottom of the tank that keeps the parts off the bottom.

shlomo, that's an interesting observation about using the park solution at double strength. Even though I use Brownell's manganese phosphate, I'll have to give that a try.

mountainman
January 14, 2009, 14:42
I took one of the 3 spaghetti and strainer SS stock pots from the kitchen and inducted it, so I shouldn't need to hang the parts? way too cool. How long do you think fizzing action should be per CH set of parts?

Scott S
January 14, 2009, 16:15
I think the longest I've left any part in the drink was maybe 5 minutes, and that was for a barreled action. Smaller parts, like the CH, might only gas a minute or two, tops.

flopshot
January 14, 2009, 17:00
For larger parts, I have a stainless steel cake cooling rack that sits in the bottom of the tank that keeps the parts off the bottom.

[/B]


do you feel it's mandatory to keep the parts off the bottom of the pan ?
without a grate would it work ok to suspend them with stainless wire ?
thanks.

Seaweed
January 14, 2009, 17:22
I have used Shooters Solution, AGI, and Brownells. I find Shooters Solution to be the easiest and produce the best results.

If you put small parts in a strainer, agitate the parts early in the process. If you wait too long, the color is set and you will get a mottled look.

At a gun show I saw an M1 receiver with a fresh park job and it was beautiful. I asked the gent at the table how he got the finish and he said he used a muratic acid bath and then used Radocy parkerizing solution. I plan on getting some of each and giving it a try. Has anyone else used the Radocy park solution?

shlomo
January 14, 2009, 20:09
Originally posted by mountainman
I took one of the 3 spaghetti and strainer SS stock pots from the kitchen and inducted it, so I shouldn't need to hang the parts? way too cool. How long do you think fizzing action should be per CH set of parts?

I've been using stainless steamtable trays for six or eight years, and the main one has a bunch of the "flock" generated by the chemical reaction burned or baked on the bottom, like dental placque. I just throw stuff in the tank, and it lays on the bottom against this stuff, and never shows so much as a mark.

I think the two most important things are 1) uniform surface prep, and 2) good degreasing immediately before going in the park tank. The only other thing that I've found that affects color is the composition of the steel. Most stuff comes out pretty uniform, but some things, like Mauser 98 bolt shrouds, come out lighter and sorta pearly looking. It's either very high carbon, or high nickel. Probably the latter, since the skin on a Garand is harder than Chinese arithmetic, and those receivers come out nice and black like all the other parts.

JeepsAndGuns
January 14, 2009, 21:41
Thanks for the links. After reading through all that. I think it is something I can handle. I do believe I will give it a try on my STG58 build.
One question, do you plug up the gas tube? I know you plug up the barrel and gas port, but what about the inside of the gas block/tube where the piston rides?

shlomo
January 14, 2009, 21:59
Originally posted by JeepsAndGuns
Thanks for the links. After reading through all that. I think it is something I can handle. I do believe I will give it a try on my STG58 build.
One question, do you plug up the gas tube? I know you plug up the barrel and gas port, but what about the inside of the gas block/tube where the piston rides?

It's really pretty simple. As I keep saying, about like boiling a hot dog.

As far as the gas block goes, you need to plug all access to the bore. If you only blast and park the block and the forward part of the barrel, you can leave the chamber open (and the ass-end of the barrel sticking out of the tank) so that air pressure from heat doesn't blow your plugs out of the muzzle and gas block. If your bore is chromed, the park won't affect it at all, but will bake and flake loose any metal fouling, which will scare the crap outta ya when you first look down the bore. Brushing with bore cleaner, and/or lapping with JB bore paste will fix things right up.

Standard vinyl electrician's tape works well to protect any external areas you may not want to either blast or park.

Scott S
January 15, 2009, 10:30
Originally posted by flopshot

do you feel it's mandatory to keep the parts off the bottom of the pan ?
without a grate would it work ok to suspend them with stainless wire ?
thanks.

I thought it was mandatory to keep parts off the bottom to get adequate circulation of park solution around the part. However, I've gotta give shlomo's method a try next time I park and set stuff on the bottom.

FWIW, after it gets caked on a bit, I scrape the flock out of my tanks.

Another thing I plan to do is change from all stainless tongs for removing parts from the drink to stainless tongs with plastic tips. I've managed to scratch heavy parts when removing them with the stainless-only tongs. I figure plastic tips will eliminate any scratching.

Good thread, gents. Some helpful ideas, here.

Scott S
January 15, 2009, 10:36
And regarding the gas block/tube, yes, I plug those. I use a toothpick for the gas vent hole on top of the block, a small wooden dowel for the front sight post hole, and larger wooden dowels for the front of the gas block and for the rear of the gas tube, if the tube is soldered in. The wood will swell and be difficult to get out, so you might try using rubber stoppers like adam 762 does.

For threaded gas tubes, I'd remove the tube and insert a snugly-fitting dowel that passes all the way through the gas block to prevent parking the inside of the block. Maybe even wrap the dowel with electrical tape.

flopshot
January 15, 2009, 10:55
Originally posted by Scott S



Another thing I plan to do is change from all stainless tongs for removing parts from the drink to stainless tongs with plastic tips.

that's a very good point that i hadn't considered. i'm kinda off in left field here because i'm taking all these procedural methods in but making my own park solution. it's causing me to second guess two areas of potential issue.
the plastic tongs are an idea that works for any situation.

Scott S
January 15, 2009, 14:13
Originally posted by flopshot
... making my own park solution. ...

Let us know how it goes, and don't be bashful about asking questions.

mountainman
January 16, 2009, 08:51
put my CC in shooters solutionas and they wanted $1000 for S$H :confused: waiting for a rep to answer the phone.

shlomo
January 16, 2009, 09:27
It's just a cheap trick to make you order over the phone. I think Jonathan gets lonesome for somebody to talk to.

I've noted before that the hardest part of using SS park is getting off the phone with Jonathan. The boy can talk, so reserve a block of time.

If you don't believe me, wait and see.

flopshot
January 16, 2009, 09:35
Originally posted by Scott S


Let us know how it goes, and don't be bashful about asking questions.
the first attempt last weekend was so so. i did an AK top cover, recoil spring latch, and gas tube. somehow i pulled a 'run' on the top cover. looks just like a small run in paint. the gas tube looks good and the latch looks factory.
i didn't clean the steel wool and that may have screwed up the cover. i''ll toss the solutuion, brew another batch and try again.

Scott S
January 16, 2009, 15:04
Is it possible that the "run" could have been a drop of lubricant or perhaps a degreaser that the park didn't like? The blasting can be time consuming, but at least with parking it's not too difficult to fix.

Cool that your homebrew is working!

flopshot
January 16, 2009, 16:14
i think it had to be something in the pan. i used damn near an entire can of brake klean on these three parts. i am going to use another cleaning process recomended by Ding next door. he likes to heat the parts first to bring out any hidden contaminants. makes sense. it's possible i mearly blasted something into the metal that the cleaner could not get out.

owlcreekok
January 16, 2009, 16:35
I swear by Brownell's Manganese Phosphate. I also make sure to use the powdered iron in a homemade "teabag" on new or re-charged solution. As far as all the persnickety shit on the solution, I have committed cardinal sins with the parts , the heat and the letting the parts sit on the bottom. I have let them sit for 30 minutes and I have took them out the second they stop bubbling. Same result. Nice park. I have soaked parts in what appeared to be 100 percent boiling flock and brand new, virgin solution made with distilled water. Same result. Nice park.

What makes all the difference in the world, in my limited experience is PREPARATION. Blast off ALL the smoogy. Get the parts CLEAN. DO NOT TOUCH the parts wid yer dick skinners. Get the parts CLEAN. Go from blast cabinet straight to acetone, then straight into the hot park tank. If in a humid climate, do this fast. Immediately, if not sooner.

GET THE PARTS CLEAN.

Prep is everything, or as far as I can tell. I know Ricketts does a lot of it, and I believe Adam762 actually sleeps in a fuggin blast cabinet. Might pay attention to those guy's advice.

Oh yeah, did I mention to make sure the parts are clean ?


:rofl:

jbgw
January 17, 2009, 09:38
How Clean?:biggrin:

owlcreekok
January 17, 2009, 09:51
Clean enuff if you stuck it up Vince's bum, he would not get an infection.

shlomo
January 17, 2009, 10:08
Careful. Ya might hurt the gerbil.

jbgw
January 17, 2009, 14:15
I will not tolerate cruelty to animals.:rofl:

mountainman
January 17, 2009, 20:00
so, who uses brake fluid instead of WD 40 for after the final rinse or boil?

owlcreekok
January 17, 2009, 20:20
Originally posted by mountainman
so, who uses brake fluid instead of WD 40 for after the final rinse or boil?

I dunno. I have been accused of drinking brake fluid.

I use whatever I got laying around after the stuff dries. I have been known to pull stuff outta the park tank, toss it on a sawhorse and plywood bench and spray the hell out of it with the garden hose. I'll dink around for an hour or two while it dries and souge it all down with whatever oil I got the most of handy. IIRC the last time I used way oil from my lathe bench. Kinda thick. Shoulda used spindle oil.

Oh well. Ain't had no rust or revenoo'ers pokin around so I'm good.

ByronF
January 17, 2009, 20:21
Originally posted by mountainman
so, who uses brake fluid instead of WD 40 for after the final rinse or boil?

I dunno. I Midas employee? Why would one use a fluid that absorbs moisture and peels automotive paint? I'd rather use olive oil, maybe with a dash of rosemary and garlic powder. Great for bread dipping, too.

Next time I park I'm going to give parts a light wipe with BLO. When a thin application of BLO dries into fresh park I'll wager you've got a pretty darned waterproof layer with staying power. Drives the honeys crazy.

owlcreekok
January 17, 2009, 20:35
Originally posted by ByronF


Why would one use a fluid that absorbs moisture and peels automotive paint?

That would explain the hellacious hangovers I used to get.

shlomo
January 17, 2009, 20:38
Originally posted by ByronF

Next time I park I'm going to give parts a light wipe with BLO. When a thin application of BLO dries into fresh park I'll wager you've got a pretty darned waterproof layer with staying power. Drives the honeys crazy.

I dunno if that's such a hot idea. Might work out okay, but I've got my doubts. Linseed oil is not oil in the sense that petroleum products and other lubricants are. It's not going to evaporate, but rather oxidize and build up a film or crust that will likely scratch and crumble eventually. Might even turn a funky texture.

On the other hand, since it's your gun, give it a try, and let us know how it works out, both in the short and long run.:biggrin:

ByronF
January 17, 2009, 21:57
I have 1903A3 and Garand with dried BLO on the metal parts. The BLO arrived on the metal from treating the wood, but it's not coming off without a solvent. It's not pretty, and it scratches, and it's kind of chunky and lumpy in some areas, but the rifles are well preserved.

shlomo
January 17, 2009, 22:28
Kinda suspected as much, bein' that I've seen spilled BLO dried on metal before.

I'm pretty sure that you can get it off by gently scrubbing with 0000 or 000 steel wool and turpentine. Failing that, try the same with acetone or lacquer thinner. Just remove the adjacent wood, as the solvents WILL bugger the finish on the stock. Not that it can't be made good as new with a fresh application or two of oil.

ByronF
January 17, 2009, 22:41
Actually I have no interest in removing it. If anything I'd like to make it thicker and more difficult to remove.

shlomo
January 17, 2009, 22:49
!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Fergit I said it, denn.

JeepsAndGuns
January 18, 2009, 10:42
Ok, seems like there is some conflicting info in here. Some say that as soon as it comes out of the park tank, thye put it in boiling water for a bit. Other say they just hose it off with the water hose.
So witch one is it? Boil it, or hose it off with cold water?
And of corse oil it down after that. But that much I figured out.

shlomo
January 18, 2009, 17:01
Both work.

I'm one of those that likes a hot water rinse. I've done it both ways, and I like the fact that the 200-degree parts that come out of the boiling water will flash the water film away by heat. This allows you to pick the part out of the water pan, shake the excess water off, and in five or ten seconds, you've got a dry part to oil.

With the cold water hose rinse, you have to dry the part first with paper towels.

Just a matter of preference.

Rudigar
January 19, 2009, 16:33
Well here is goes,
Being a newbie of course I'm anxious and always ordering b4 I read All the post on a topic. I just bought a park kit from Parkerizingkits.com and bought the Grey and black.
Now the real question......I have a DSA receiver, is this considered Black or Grey? (that's why I went with both black and grey) Has anyone tried the Parkerizingkits or did I just waste my mula....not a first and I'm sure it won't be the last for me Pi~~ing money away.
I just bead blasted my lower and have it prepped for the tank, thought i'd try a few small parts to find color I'm after. Guess my real question has anyone tried this solution from Parkerizingkits? What do you consider the color of DSA receivers?
Thanks

shlomo
January 19, 2009, 19:28
Rudi--

Can't answer any questions abut your receiver color or the park kit you ordered, as I have not seen either, and there are variables.

Best thing is to mix it up per instructions, and have at it with some small test parts. If not right, they can be quickly blasted white again.

One comment, though. Blasting something with the intent to park it in the future is a waste of time. Any oxidation from humidity or exposure to oxygen will degrade the quality the park process. Best process is as outlined above. Blast cabinet, directly to lacquer thinner. From thinner tank directly to park tank. From park tank, directly to rinse (whether hot or cold). Dry and oil after rinsing. Just that simple.

JeepsAndGuns
January 19, 2009, 20:26
Ok, I have another question. I just ordered a new barrel for my parts kit. I'm sure its already parked. Now if the color is diffrent, say a light grey. Will I need to blast it before I do the SS kit? Or can I dip a already parked part to darken the color. I just kinda hate blasting a brand new part, but I will if I have to.

shlomo
January 19, 2009, 22:05
I have tried parking over park--specifically, some FAL mags that had some worn spots on otherwise decent mag bodies. The solution will park the bare metal areas, but not go thru the old park.

Interestingly, SS manganese park will go right thru blueing, and leave a parked finish. At least it does on whatever blueing they use on Barnett M1 barrels. I've had two come in with a blue finish, and four in the white. They all parked just the same, with nothing more than degreasing.

If your barrel is lighter than the color your park solution produces, you can always just blast the gas block area, the barrel forward of that, and the F/H. Remember to plug the muzzle and gas port holes when you blast. Also, wrap the first six inches behind the block with a couple layers of vinyl electrician's tape, and slip the H/G ring down to the block for blasting and parking. The tape will protect the barrel from the media, and will also stop the action (if any) of the park solution behind the block. Then, just stick the front end and ring in the solution and park that. All the rest is covered by the handguards.

Deltaten
January 19, 2009, 22:15
J'n'G:

You'll find that most of the time, home park'd parts all come out different colors. Not a big variance; but enuff to tell. Shoot! even different areas of the same part (hardened regions on a rvcr) will be odd colored! Ya can start off doing some small stuff.... usually end up darker anywho; then do the bbl etc and cook it till it looks close. Remember.. the color and "depth" of same is all in the prep, especially the blasting. Be sure to get deep enough into the steel. JUst removing the color on the original park will leave nasty spots on the new finish.

We have used rods on the bottom of the tank, wires suspending parts and mesh bags. I end up just tossing it in and turning once or thrice :D No big deal. Fresh park will bubble parts till they are ate right thru ;) so don't leave stuff in a fresh batch till it stops fizzing. All that does is take the edge off the batch. Park will only "take" so much on a given piece!
We have used Shooter's Solution and preferably, Palmetto brand


Rudi;
JUst go with the black! Unless a vendor specifically states that tyhey use Zinc park to match WW II gray or an early Belgian gray.... it's black or some shade of black (manganese)

Park is art and science rolled into one.. Kitchen science; but still......

Best,
Paul

shlomo
January 19, 2009, 22:40
The foregoing from Deltaten is all good poop. But let me add two things:

First, the water is going to boil off in the tank, and this will have the effect of concentrating the solution, which in turn darkens the parts cooked in it. This is because the water boils away, but not the park chemical. So, fill to a certain line, and add small amounts of water regularly to replace boil-off. Waiting until you've lost 1/4 to 1/3 of the tank will not only make parts darker in that concentrated solution, but you will also lose time waiting for the tank to come back up to operating temperature when you dump in a third of a tank of cold water to top up. Get and use a lid to limit boil-of to a minimum.

Second, I've found that using SS manganese park solution at double the recommended concentration not only gives a darker, nearly black color (which I prefer), but it also shows less color variation than the standard concentration. In case you're wondering, I've never had any ill effects from the double concentration. Doesn't eat up parts, or anything like that. I do believe that it works twice as fast though. The first couple guns I did, I used the standard concentration. Seemed like it took 15 minutes for parts to stop fizzing. The double concentration takes about 6 minutes, sometimes less. Only drawback is cost, since it takes twice the product to run any given volume of solution.

Rudigar
January 20, 2009, 06:25
Shlomo,
Thanks for the advice. I have kinda a problem when going directly from blast cabinet to tank tho. I don't personally have a blast cabinet, I have to drive about 40 miles to borrow a friends. Here's what I did tho. Immediately after blasting I coated with M1 which is a machinist protectant for new machined parts. I figured I could degrease these with the appropriate degreaser right before putting in tank. I'll do a few small parts and decide from there.
Otherwise it looks like I haul tank and all the fixins over to my friends....Grins
Thanks

BLINDone3
February 08, 2009, 12:32
Here's what I've been doing so far:
Tried the home brew on one AK, worked but was not consistant gun to gun. Switched to Shooter Solutions, if you think Johnathan talks on the phone, pick it up in person!! Typical process that works for me: Boil all parts in ZEP for 30 min, rinse and airblow. Blast with 80psi 150 grit aluminum oxide. Air Blow again. Transfer to boiling distilled water for 20 min. Transfer into parkerizing solution at 195 to 200 F. Leave in for 20 min. Transfer into another boiling of distilled water for 3 min. Transfer into Black Oxide solution (Caswell). Leave in Black Oxide for 10 min, transfer into another 30 min boil in distilled water. Remove, airblow, oil asap. Comes out jet black and tough!

Blaster746
February 09, 2009, 00:45
I have been doing my own parkerizing with a home park recipe.
It uses the Prep-&-Etch soulition by Klean-Strip, you can find it at Home Depot, manganese dioxide from some old D-cell batteries (the black power part) and steel wool.
http://i41.tinypic.com/1z3cutc.jpg
1. I use one cup of Prep-&-Etch bring it to 190deg. desolve one large table spoon of manganese dioxide (do not boil over).
2. Pour this mix into 1gal boiling water bring up to 190deg.
3. While holding at 190deg desolve one steel wool pad in soulition while stiring (this will cause a big odor)
4. Cook at 190deg for 20min. after steel wool is desolved.
5. When cool pour into one gal water jug.(soultion is ready for parking)
TO PARK;
1. Pour park soultion into stainless steel pan & heat to 190deg.
2.Prep parts by sand blasting & cleaning with alcohol rinse, hold parts with tongs & burn off alcohol preheating at the same time.
3. Put parts in the hot park soulition keeping at 190deg stiring soulition for about 20min. or until parts are dark enough.
4. Rinse parts in boling water for 5min.
5. Coat parts with oil (keeping coated for 24hrs)
This will give you a great looking dark black park job.
If you want to paint over this park job you can & the black park under the paint will help hide any scratches.

Clownshoes
February 16, 2009, 17:24
Originally posted by Blaster746
manganese dioxide from some old D-cell batteries (the black power part)

I buy my manganese dioxide from a pottery store (a place that actually makes the pottery not just sells it). It's runs like $6 per pound IIRC. The first time bought it was kind of funny, the lady says "wow you must be making a really dark piece" and I was like not really I'm using it to park some parts for a firearm...she got a little quiet after that.

Anyway just a tip, I imagine it's easier than smashing up batteries and you're guaranteed a nice fine powder.

BLINDone3
February 16, 2009, 18:40
Pottery store is deffinetly the way to go! I've got about 5Lbs left over if anyone is interested in it.