PDA

View Full Version : 223 FAL project LOTS of pics.


owlcreekok
January 08, 2009, 18:15
A few weeks ago, member 'Slow' and I were at the range shooting the toys and the shit. Turned out I had a batch of .223 ammo I loaded that would not chamber properly in my new A deuce mousegun. He had his .223 Para FAL along and it ate the ammo fine. Since I was under the sickening impression that I had 700 rounds or so of this ammo that would not work in the A2 (it did in the varmint AR) I had to do SOMETHING. Best solution we could come up with was that I had to build a .223 FAL. Now, it turned out that only 25- 30 rounds of that lot of ammo was "bad", but the die was cast.

I started a thread on a FAL x AR mag adaptor. I got that started right off the bat by using Slow's Imbel adaptor as a model. That project got as far as the flat all cut out, the front mag catch dimple pressed into it and then the barrel arrived from Brownells. I promptly shoved the mag adaptor aside and boxed the donor Imbel kit and Entreprise upper. Time to make chips.

Here is the first batch of what I hope to be a full pictorial of this project. I must be done by FalFest 2009. I plan to shame the thugs and their poofter AUGs.

:biggrin:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/FAL%20223/BarrelWork007.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/FAL%20223/BarrelWork014.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/FAL%20223/BarrelWork010.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/FAL%20223/BarrelWork008.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/FAL%20223/BarrelWork009.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/FAL%20223/BarrelWork001.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/FAL%20223/BarrelWork002.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/FAL%20223/BarrelWork006.jpg


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/FAL%20223/Threadend.jpg


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/FAL%20223/BarrelWork004.jpg



To be continued:

shlomo
January 08, 2009, 19:32
Hah! I'm likin' it so far. Got the gas block on permanent-like?

Kinda wierd seein' pics of a project done on an SB 9 that ain't mine.

W.E.G.
January 08, 2009, 20:22
Man that does look sharp! :bow:

I hope it runs like a "raped ape"... even if it does have a small weenie. :]

phillip
January 08, 2009, 20:46
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Dw9yEuwohkk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Dw9yEuwohkk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

owlcreekok
January 08, 2009, 22:03
I am proud as punch of it so far. Mostly cuz I ain't crashed on it (raps head thrice). (That's swarf maker jargon for getting a tool jammed-broke-AFU while it is runnin, in which case it sucks to be yourself. Especially on a $200 barrel.)

The third pic from the bottom is a closeup of the gas block journal. According to present measurement it is five thou' from final O.D. The gas block is pictured slid up next to the beginning of the journal. The barrel for'ad of the journal is about five thou undersize of the I.D. of the gas block race. I got a spiral notebook half full on three pages of numbers and cogitations. No surprise I cain't recite them just now. :p

I lost a few pics of the barrel whilst it was under a cut. Oh well. I got all happy last night after I parted it off at 20" . I put an 11 degree crown ( I know, WEG, what would DJ31 say ?) and then proceeded to dress up the muzzle all nice and slickum. I couldn't decide what muzzle device to go with so I ain't goin' with none. I can put one on this 20" barrel later, but I can't have a slick petered muzzle later if'n I thread it now. Anyway, I lay down for the night and said to myself, "Self, you stupidofoquero, you still got to turn that thing between centers to get the block journal down pat. Why you go and finish that muzzle ? Huh ?

Tonight I sat in front of that 9A and crashed a tool once trying to make one of them brass hooyahs what protecks the crown when ya gotta unf**k sumpin like that between centers. The second try is chucked up now but the brass stock is about 1" diameter. it will be a while till I can get that hooyah whittled out. Yeah yeah Brownells sells them, I know. They's a reason I want to make one or two. Folks like me and shlomo knows what the affliction feels like.

I get the thing a few more steps done, I will make some better pics of the barrel. Maybe after I chamber it. I'll be sure to take some pics while running the chamber reamer up her. :love:

Good vid, phillip. Gracias. Thanks fer the kindness guys. This'll get bumped again later, I am sure.

:beer:

shlomo
January 08, 2009, 22:14
Owl, ain't any reason to turn the gas block journal between centers, if I'm following you. It isn't like the bore in that area is necessarily concentric to the outside, or even REALLY straight from end to end. If it wuz me, I'd just chuck up the fat end (4-jaw, if possible), and run the right end in the steady, either just behind or just ahead of the area you're gonna cut. Keep chatter and flex down, and give you better fine accuracy and finish. Just my two Lincolns.

Maybe one a the pros on here will tell me if I'm all wet.

owlcreekok
January 08, 2009, 22:23
I reckon I could ease the live center into the muzzle long enough to get the steady set. Back out the tailstock and start it up, chase the dial a bit on both ends and let er rip. Never have to twist the center in the muzzle a'tall.

That sorta wotcher thinkin' ?

Look close at the setup shown with the steady. See that gob of junk in the steady ? That is a piece of emery, grit side out, cloth side gommed with axle grease. Slow taught me that. Dang stuff will clench down and indicate a half a thou or less ever' time. :shades:

shlomo
January 08, 2009, 22:35
That's what I'm thinkin', all right. One thing about the steady is that once you have a round to run in it, it'll keep a true cut in the immediate vicinity, whether to the right or left.

I kinda like the greased emery cloth deal, except for embedding grit in the ends of the steady fingers. Gotta think about this some.

FAL GRUNT
January 08, 2009, 23:07
How do you, if at all, plan to "normalize" the barrel after turning? I've been discussing a similar project concerning the effects of turning a profiled, or blank barrel. Apparently (you probably know) it releases stresses in the barrel. Problem being once you shoot the barrel, it will relieve some of the stresses effecting the bore and barrel.

Input?

-myers

owlcreekok
January 08, 2009, 23:13
Originally posted by FAL GRUNT
How do you, if at all, plan to "normalize" the barrel after turning? I've been discussing a similar project concerning the effects of turning a profiled, or blank barrel. Apparently (you probably know) it releases stresses in the barrel. Problem being once you shoot the barrel, it will relieve some of the stresses effecting the bore and barrel.

Input?

-myers

That's a few flight levels over my noggin, FalGrunt. be interestin to see what comment we get along them lines.

shlomo, when I do that, it polishes up the area under the steady fingers a bit. On a barrel to be blasted it goes away in the blast in a second. On this one, I turned the barrel on high step belt with the bull gear still in and 120 grit made it go away in less than three or four minutes.

Temp
January 08, 2009, 23:44
That's some pretty work ya got goin' on there, Owl,...and be damned iff'n you ain't the tidyest macheenist I've seen around lately.

Ya got the dog's water bowl catchin' the chips,.. newspaper all laid out here and there,...but you ain't foolin' *me*.

Alla that shit is just things to help you procrastinate so's ya don't hafta jump in there and take the final .005" offa that gas block journal.

I know how it is. I been hoverin over a Hardinge lathe all night tryin' to hold + fuggin' goose-egg, -.0003" on a damn diameter 7" long. I'd just as soon eat a petrified cat turd as have to go back in tomorrow and continue with my current project.

It's a'nuff ta make ya drank,...no shit.

Speakin' of which, the night is as young as the day is old,.... and there's some Ketel One in the fridge,...

FAL GRUNT
January 09, 2009, 00:17
Barrel Stress Basics 101: (from what I know :tongue: )

When barrels are bored and rifled stresses are imparted into the steel of the barrel. There are 2 common forms of rifling that are most... popular? today. Hammer forging and button or broach rifling.

Hammer forging is the worst as far as stresses. They take metal and hammer it around an mandrel in a barrel. This imparts a GREAT amount of stresses into the steel.

Button/broach rifle is not as bad. A button or broach is forced down the barrel forming the lands and grooves in the barrel. This displaces the metal creating stress.

http://www.firearmsid.com/A_bulletIDrifling.htm

So... when the turned or altered it releases some of this stress or allows the stress to be able to release. Then when the barrel is heated up from firing it will expand/contract/warp etc from the stresses.

Now..... I must say this. Please, anyone, correct me if any of this is wrong!

In my case I will be turning down various barrels to AK/hybrid profiles. What I don't know is how much this "stress" will really affect accuracy. Are we talking .25in at 100 yards? Or 2.5in at 100 yards?

Sooo.... I will also be interested to hear any input. I'll be continuing research and i'll update or start a new thread so as not to detract from yours.

-myers

Brush511
January 09, 2009, 00:46
Wise Old Owl, I feel totally inadequate. I spent the morning parting off at 18" and threading the barrel of my last kit. I was purty proud of my self. Indexed the combo device just right and every thing (only crashed once). And then you gotta go and show off.

I spent part of the afternoon setting up a 17 1/2" barreled upper in my 10X24 Logan. It seems that the moron who built it (see my sig line) didn't thread the muzzle right. The o.d. of the threads is a wee bit small. Some muzzle devices will tighten up but the short Stolle I want to use will strip. So I thought I'd cut it off at about 17" and rethread it. I got it set up and chickened out. See the size of the lathe (10X24). Barrel and upper receiver are about 26 1/2". I have a third of the tailstock hanging over the end of the bed and the tool holder stuck out of the lantern post about as far as I can. I think I could do it but it ain't gonna be very rigid. I think I'm going to pull the barrel. Hopefully it will headspace right when I screw it back in (I'll check it) so I don't have to put in a different locking shoulder.

And what's with the cleanliness? You trying to give me a complex?

shlomo
January 09, 2009, 06:45
Originally posted by Temp
That's some pretty work ya got goin' on there, Owl,...and be damned iff'n you ain't the tidyest macheenist I've seen around lately.


This a little more like it?

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1214/016bm6.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=016bm6.jpg)

owlcreekok
January 09, 2009, 10:00
Good stuff, FalGrunt. Keep that line comin on in here, but make another thread too, if you want. It might help others if that info was out there on it's own too.

I "hovered" over that dang little mosheen beginnin about 0500 this morning. My knees was a knockin' and hadda stop the coffee and take a chaw of Red Man just to calm the f**t down. I did what you said, shlomo. I chucked it up (but pussed out and used the three jaw) and set the steady on the flat spot aft of the journal. Got it dialed in and then stood there and spat a few times. I measured the ID of the block a half a dozen times with inside calipers and a one inch mike. I then fussed with a center cut, bullnosed (about a 1/32 nose radius) tool on the stone for a few minutes. I started making hairy swarf with the carriage feed at about .000000000000000005" per rev (lol). Polish it, measure it, did that twice't. Damned if the mike didn't read .6925" all over the POS. (block reads .691" to .689.5, they ain't round, by the saints they ain't)

I then took a fine white hair cut on the first .250" or so of the journal and polished that up. The journal, if you will refer to the pic above is a good bit longer than the gas block. Well, maybe the pic don't show the block enough to tell that. There's about .375" more journal than block.

I took the steady off, cleaned it up, marked center of the block race, brought the TDC witness on the barrel (which is actually 11:00 on the upper hand timed) over to the front end of the journal and slipped the block up to it.

I got really skeered and came in here for the day. Maybe I will go out and shoot a pic of it in the sunlight before I try to pound that block down.

shlomo
January 09, 2009, 10:59
Owl,

If you want a little security before driving that block on, you might want to take 15 minutes to chuck up a small piece of some 3/4" steel stock in the 3-jaw, and turn an inch of it to the same size as your journal (or maybe to .691), and try the block on it. If it takes a lot to drive it at .691, you'll know it before you mess with the actual barrel. If it slides on with little effort, you'll know that .692 is about right.

Don't forget to lube both parts:smile:

P.S.
Now ya got me lookin' at a varmint-weight .308 barrel I pulled outta the drawer.
And I'm a-thinkin'.

Dammit.

Any reason you know of why it's a bad idea to use an inch-pattern, open ear block with an Imbel receiver and kit? Not that I'm actually considering it.

Nope.

Dammit.:redface:

owlcreekok
January 09, 2009, 11:20
You are reading my mind. Somebody suggested that. I forget where when or who. Temp said .001 is tight and .002" is a booger.

I got time. I got a piece of .224 rifled "drop" too.

If I hadn't got a virgin Imbel block from a fellow reprobate (which reminds me to use the mailbox today) I would be possibly using an open eared Inchy block.

No reason a'tall for you to sit there bored and all. You ain't even gotta buy a $120 .223 bolt. :uhoh:

:devil:

Ain't no worse than me gettin' ahead of myself and looking at .35 Whelen barrels, reamers and another upper.

Izzit ?

:angel:

Think: Quick-Change FAL. From Mouse caliber to Moose caliber in less than 60 seconds. :biggrin:

bykerhd
January 09, 2009, 11:32
I know this is getting ahead a bit, but does a bolt have to be modified for .223 ?
Or, is a different bolt needed ?

Awesome project. Makes me wish I was a machinist.
Or, maybe had some skills ?:rolleyes:

FAL GRUNT
January 09, 2009, 11:35
How would you extend the mag well? Or what mags would you use to accommodate the .35 Whelen?

Hit your barrel with some 400 grit emery and bring it down to .001 over. Unless you heat up the gas block and slip it on I think you'll have a tough time pressing the gas block on.

-myers

shlomo
January 09, 2009, 11:57
Originally posted by owlcreekok
You are reading my mind. Somebody suggested that. I forget where when or who. Temp said .001 is tight and .002" is a booger.

I got time. I got a piece of .224 rifled "drop" too.

If I hadn't got a virgin Imbel block from a fellow reprobate (which reminds me to use the mailbox today) I would be possibly using an open eared Inchy block.

No reason a'tall for you to sit there bored and all. You ain't even gotta buy a $120 .223 bolt. :uhoh:

:devil:

Ain't no worse than me gettin' ahead of myself and looking at .35 Whelen barrels, reamers and another upper.

Izzit ?

:angel:

Think: Quick-Change FAL. From Mouse caliber to Moose caliber in less than 60 seconds. :biggrin:

Lookin' at the numbers you listed, I've got a feeling that .691 to .6915 is what is gonna be a good fit for the journal, if it really has a portion that is .6895.

I got that .308 heavy profile because I was tired of that pencil-assed Imbel barrel wandering when it got hot. But I also have a couple of VZ24 actions hangin' up on the wall. Decisions, decisions.

I take it that the Whelen barrel will become a .358, for reasons mentioned by FalGrunt? Oh, and by the way--I've already got my .35 tube, and the Whelen AI reamer and throater, as well. (Think "medium" scout) Nya-ha-ha.

So there.

owlcreekok
January 09, 2009, 12:43
Originally posted by bykerhd
I know this is getting ahead a bit, but does a bolt have to be modified for .223 ?
Or, is a different bolt needed ?

Awesome project. Makes me wish I was a machinist.
Or, maybe had some skills ?:rolleyes:

I bought a bolt from a fella that bought a couple three from DSA. It is , from what I can gather, a surplus (SAR 4800 ?) bolt made for the .223 biz.

I too wish I was a machinist OR had some skilz.

I just too dumb to be skeered and blest to have Dad's old lathe. Not to mention I got a friend or two that's willin' to put up with my cranky arse.

:confused:

stimpsonjcat
January 09, 2009, 16:14
Brilliant!

Scott S
January 09, 2009, 17:04
I'm watching with rapt attention, J.

AndyC
January 09, 2009, 19:52
I wish I had a clue what you guys are talking about - but I'm still in awe :bow:

owlcreekok
January 09, 2009, 20:27
YeeHaw ! Gas block went on nice and tight, timed perfect. About 20 minutes of steady, light tap tap tap and it seated. I couldn't stand it, so I threw a bit of the rifle together. I took a crappy few pics. Especially the Imbel mag adaptor. The gray metal flat is the adaptor prototype I am forming from 18 GA mill phosphatized sheet metal.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/Firstassy001.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/Firstassy005.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/Firstassy003.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/Firstassy006.jpg

I suppose next will be drill the gas block for the pin and the HG screw and - or chamber this puppy. Goint to take a day or two break from it I reckon.

phillip
January 09, 2009, 21:22
Originally posted by AndyC
I wish I had a clue what you guys are talking about - but I'm still in awe :bow:


:D That makes two of us. Its pretty cool watchin people that are good at what they do do what they do.

shlomo
January 09, 2009, 22:34
Originally posted by owlcreekok
YeeHaw ! Gas block went on nice and tight, timed perfect. About 20 minutes of steady, light tap tap tap and it seated. I couldn't stand it, so I threw a bit of the rifle together. I took a crappy few pics. Especially the Imbel mag adaptor. The gray metal flat is the adaptor prototype I am forming from 18 GA mill phosphatized sheet metal.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/Firstassy001.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/Firstassy005.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/Firstassy003.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/Firstassy006.jpg

I suppose next will be drill the gas block for the pin and the HG screw and - or chamber this puppy. Goint to take a day or two break from it I reckon.

"Well, we drilled it out so that it would fit,
And with a little help from an A-dapter kit,
We had that sucker runnin' just like a song."

:biggrin: :biggrin:

Kudos to ya, meistro! So, tell us--what did the final dimension of the journal work out to?

And I gotta tell ya, I'm likin' the look of that mag adapter. I may have to pick your brain some when I get back to workin' on the "Thompsonov". :wink:

I've also gotta tell you that you finally shamed me into gettin' off the dime and doin' something with that .308 barrel I mentioned, even if it's somethin' wrong. I now have a .30 cal version of your tube sitting in the shop, threaded, profiled, cut and crowned, waiting for the gas block to be driven on. But that may be the subject of another thread when I get some pics loaded tonight or tomorrow.

Temp
January 09, 2009, 23:02
Well hey!

Good job!

Now you're only one or two nervous breakdowns away from being home free with it.

owlcreekok
January 10, 2009, 07:40
0.6925" is what the main journal read with my 60 yr old Starrett 1" mike. I took Temp's trick and turned a .691 (.6895 if ya skwoze it hard enuff) starter. You can see in the first pisc that I had the journal longer than the block. I ran that whole length to the target diameter, then went to the end and fuzzed me a little starter "funnel". Worked like gangbusters.

Like I mentioned, I had established an 11:00 TDC witness mark at the breech end and at the gas block shoulder. Using the digital calipers and the vee block & ruler I marked the face of the block. That starter funnel allowed me to effortlessly align the block with the TDC witnesses before the serious skinnin' began.

Slow has coached me immensely through this, but the sucker is just lurkin'. He has taught me mountains and I owe him a shitton of credit (as well as you lot on here) He is now trying to explain the setup he likes for running the chamber reamer into a blank. I could just wait till I can drive over to his hovel, but I might can't wait. Lol.

PS- I know it goes without saying, shlomo, but I got to at least put it up here for posterity. The .06925 that I turned my journal to don't mean a thing to anyone else's barrel. The gas block I was fitting is a brand spanking new, undrilled Imbel. Never been violated in her life. I scratched my head and mumbled to myself for two days all the while measuring that gas block at almost every minute of the clock, every 1/64 of it's length.

shlomo
January 10, 2009, 07:51
Coach me here a little bit, Owl. The relief cut behind the gas block shoulder is there for clearance for the gas ring and spring, right? Is there any specific dimension for this, and if so, what is the science behind it? The next operation on mine will probably be to cut this relief, and I want to get it right if there is such a thing.

See what you got me into?

owlcreekok
January 10, 2009, 08:08
The relief cut behind the gas block shoulder is there for clearance for the gas ring and spring, right?

Yep.




That part is pretty crude. No science in it. I took an Imbel barrel with gas block still on it, added the regulator nut and spring. I measured the distance from the top of the barrel to the bottom of the spring and added this number (plus some WAG clearance amount) to the diameter of the barrel at the end of the tension spring. Those number are out in the shop. The barrel is in here, but I got nuthin to measure with in here but an architect's scale. Lol

Oh yeah, don't ask how I measured the gap between the barrel and the spring. Just go find your feeler gages and stack them up. I would not want anyone to know why I keep a deck of playing cards in the tool cabinet.

shlomo
January 10, 2009, 08:30
Awright, then. I'll just whittle it down the same way. This is where I left things at 9:40 last night. As you can see, it's a pretty big shoulder left behind the block, at something like .900". The ring fits, but just.

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7333/16profiledbarrelwithgasnx6.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=16profiledbarrelwithgasnx6.jpg)

owlcreekok
January 10, 2009, 09:16
Yeh, lotta metal at that place on a Shilen # 5.

I was just out there trying to lay out the holes in the gas block I got to drill. I THINK I found an extra gas block pin. Looks like a piece of new round stock. I have a vague memory of buying that from , maybe, GPG It is certainly not surplus as it hasn't the rounded ends like a "real" one has. It measures 0.136" with the digi verynear. The same instrument shows the HG screw hole as 0.208".

By the way, I do believe those inch blocks take a tapered pin. Not that a drill and a roll pin wouldn't likely fix that bit of Limey madness. Roll pin would look kinda funky though, IMO.

I got to work out these hole sizes and go find bits. I got a bit that will do for the HG screw hole. I just got to get the right size pin (if mine is not) and then find out what size bit to use for said pin and procure it.

Any input as to pin size vs hole size ?

Anyone ?

Gotta call Slow and wake his ass up.

shlomo
January 10, 2009, 09:40
You can get drill sizes here:

http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-drillsize.htm

.136 is a #29 drill, which is the tap drill for something, (10-32, IIRC), so you probably have one around.

As to the pin itself, if you don't have one on hand, you can probably find somebody with a lathe to make one for you. :|


















:rofl:

Slow
January 10, 2009, 14:00
Originally posted by shlomo
Awright, then. I'll just whittle it down the same way. This is where I left things at 9:40 last night. As you can see, it's a pretty big shoulder left behind the block, at something like .900". The ring fits, but just.




your going to have to take some more off the shoulder in front of were the ring sits, some type and make are kinda thick esp the one with plastic rear ends.





oh yeah

drill bit shanks make good gasblock pins......

Slow
January 10, 2009, 14:22
Originally posted by FAL GRUNT
How do you, if at all, plan to "normalize" the barrel after turning? I've been discussing a similar project concerning the effects of turning a profiled, or blank barrel. Apparently (you probably know) it releases stresses in the barrel. Problem being once you shoot the barrel, it will relieve some of the stresses effecting the bore and barrel.

Input?

-myers

I have heard the same thing, but i believe it applies more to turning a full blank, and will not be a concern here as not much material will be removed from the original profile.

I cant remember, but i was told that Hammer forged blank bore will increase and a cut bore will shrink, or vise versa. i might have to give him a ring and find out again what i was told.

owlcreekok
January 10, 2009, 22:06
Originally posted by colchester
Im digging the whole project,I may want to take a whack at one myself. Can someone tell me about the mag adapter that was always my biggest concern. This might be cool in a short gas para configuration.

Hold own and grab a couple 12 packs. The mag adapter and mag catch is going to take center stage on here as soon as the barrel gets chambered.

:beer:

ratas calientes
January 10, 2009, 22:43
This is way cool, especially for a stinkin' owl, lousy hungry birds. :p







So, how again did you time the barrel threads? Looks like you hand timed the barrel to the receiver, and marked TDC of the barrel at 11:00. That way you can torque it into place. Sound correct?

http://chilirat.com/emoticons/chilirat.gif

Falfegnügen
January 10, 2009, 23:45
I've always thought a FAL in .22-250 would be cool, more in line with the FAL's design. Maybe use normal mags, bolt etc. Just thinkin...

Slow
January 11, 2009, 01:05
Originally posted by Falfegnügen
I've always thought a FAL in .22-250 would be cool, more in line with the FAL's design. Maybe use normal mags, bolt etc. Just thinkin...


http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1543290#post1543290

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1693635

owlcreekok
January 11, 2009, 07:21
Originally posted by ratas calientes
So, how again did you time the barrel threads? Looks like you hand timed the barrel to the receiver, and marked TDC of the barrel at 11:00. That way you can torque it into place. Sound correct?

http://chilirat.com/emoticons/chilirat.gif

Perzackly, Ratso, per-zackly. I used the lathe tool in the post so as to be able to scribe the line at breech end and then rool the carriage down to the othe rend, gas block end that is and it would be dead-nutz.

Another trick taught to me by a "Monkey with a Gun".

:rofl:

Falfegnügen
January 11, 2009, 19:23
Originally posted by Slow



http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1543290#post1543290
...

Just read through the complete thread on the .22-250. In the words of the famous Editorialist Rosanne Rosannadanna, ...Never Mind.

Andy the Aussie
January 12, 2009, 00:14
Is this bloody thing not finished yet...I mean how long could it take.... ;) :rofl:

shlomo
January 12, 2009, 01:04
Patience... These things must be done de-e-e-licately.

http://walterwoods.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/witch.jpg

owlcreekok
January 12, 2009, 09:10
I took the weekend off from it for the most part. I got to dig around and find the bits to drill the gas block with, items to do the setup for drilling the gas block so as to get it halfass straight and all the while reserve enough strength to endure the trials of two teenagers, a wife and an idiot co-worker.

More later.

Unless of course FF gets a regular habit of tit threads. Then I will edit all my posts along these lines and find other things to do with my time.

:sad:

the gman
January 12, 2009, 14:09
Now, ya gots whats called a 'good start' on this here project owl but whatcha fooking around wif that flat piece o' steel for the mag block??

When I looked at doing a .223 (just cuz I could cuz I already have 2 SAR 4800's in the rack....:tongue: ) I figured I could just use a metric mag & chop the crap out of it instead of bending metal & shit what I ain't real good at. But then, as I type this, it comes to mind that you are somewhat experienced with the metal bending as part of the HVAC deal you work so I guess I'll just shutmyass.... :biggrin:

I have built a few odd ball FAL's & I have a .358 Win on the drawing board for the elk hunt this year, gonna put a hurting on some o' them elk hiding in the trees......(or just cut the fuggin' trees down :shades: ) Already have me a nice (what looks like SS barrel) on the shelf so it's just a matter of throwing a few bits together here & there.

Also thinking of doing a .22-243 Middlestead just to blow Slow's liddle .22-250 into the weeds......:] Anyone say 80gr Sierra .224 Matchking at 3600fps???????:devil: :devil: :devil:

Regarding the barrels & stresses etc: Slow, ya gots it arse about face; hammer forged barrels when turned down tend to reduce the bore size whereas buttoned barrels tend to increase the bore diameter when turned down.

Regardless, yes it is relatively true that HF barrels do have stress imparted to them by the forging process but also that most are hammered to profile, complete with chamber & therefore do not require much in the way of turning to finish. In addition, HEAT is the biggest enemy when turning barrels to profile along with insufficient support of the tube whilst being turned. Taking too heavy a cut is also not a good idea.

Cut rifled barrels tend to put the least amount of stress into steel whilst being produced but also work out to be the most expensive too. Of course, the steel used to make the barrels needs to be as stress free as possible to start with; I know of one major producer of barrels on the East coast that rejected a whole bunch of steel as being unsuitable for barrels due to excessive stresses being present & that pushed their barrel production way the hell back.

In general, most hobbyist/gunsmith turning of barrels won't (or shouldn't ) lead to many dramas with inducing stresses into barrels but many barrel makers won't honor warranties on their barrels if they have been turned down to other than the profile they left the factory with.

There are outfits out there that offer normalizing via cryo treatment but I have no info as to the service provided.

Owl, ya do good but there comes a time when one just takes a good chug of yer favorite poison & gets ta swinging on the wrenches & the crosslide. Git 'er done mang!!!!:biggrin: :D :shades:

owlcreekok
January 12, 2009, 14:34
:whiskey:

Making the mag adapter will be more time consuming than difficult for me. Being minus an array of die stocks and a press, I will have to form the flat with whatever means I can come up with at hand. This will always result in the manufacturing of the means taking more effort than the actual forming operation. I have Slow's Imbel adaptor, albiet I am minus the mag release part. So, I can use it for test purposes if I get really impatient.

Not much danger in my taking a cut too deep for the barrel to withstand. As regards the stresses of the blank. I am running a little SB 9A, circa 1946. Exacerbating that is the fact that I am chicken to take more than five thou on a rough cut and take only a couple three thou when making a pass on threads. Putting five thou back is rather difficult for me, being a stoopid bird and all.

As soon as I can get back into the shop later this week, I will finish sorting out the gas block and then get this puppy chambered.

I have a sore feeling that this project will likely serve to be a new beginning in the FAL building, instead of the coup de grace I had hoped it to be.

:cry:

FAL GRUNT
January 12, 2009, 18:38
For turning threads I usually start with .001 for the first 2 passes. Then .003 for the next couple. Then I test fit, .001, test fit, .001, test fit, .0005, test fit, etc.

You can usually tell if you have a ways to go or not.

I was threading for a muzzle brake today for 9/16x24. Craziest threading I have ever done because both threads are VERY shallow.

-myers

the gman
January 12, 2009, 20:16
My post on the turning of zee barrels was more of a general FYI rather an indictment of your technique mon General Owl...;) I was well aware of your cautious approach on the removal of metal from the item in question. You would not have found favour with one of my very great machining mentors, Staff Sergeant Chris 'Ra-Ra' Randall. Chris was a product of an in depth engineering apprenticeship, served in heavy engineering in Yorkshire (the place of my birth & where men are men & sheep are scared....:eek: :rofl: ) so when he joined the British Army, it was only natural that he should be trained as a heavy weapons engineer, as was I.

I was a mere Lance-Corporal when I fell in with the evil that Chris taught me; the tricks to confuse a lathe so it wouldn't hear you sneaking a .100" cut on the cross slide & then engaging the lead screw......:eek: According to Chris, the lathe wasn't working hard enough if the swarf was anything but blue in colour when it came of the work in nice big sharp curls.

Ah, we got into much trouble together but a wonderful man he was & still is.

You know damn well that building a FAL like this is like eating Starburst candy, you can't have just one.......:p :cry:

owlcreekok
January 12, 2009, 22:14
I remember seeing Dad take cuts that the swarf was blue and the lathe was just squalling. I expect Dad knew what he was doing. When I came along he already had close to 20 years playing with that old thing. His audacity is prolly why the cross slide bushing is sloppy. I GOT to order one of those. shlomo sent me a compound bushing that I have yet to see how it fits the screw.

FalGrunt: When I first got the old SB running, I took a handful of inch barrels I got somewheres that were trashed (by the beavers at CAI and their hydraulics). I would part off an inch or so, turn to major, thread 9/16 x 24 and do it all over again. I think I did that four or five times to all but one of those barrels. Those were my "learning lab" projects. While I retained a bit of what I learned in those days, a couple years ago, it sure helped me a lot. Slow taught me much and I tried to do everything he told me not to at least twice. :cry: A really sharp tool, good threading oil and clean between passes seems to be what I really came away with on those shallow threads.

One day, for giggles, I am going to chuck up a gas tube and try one of those puppies out for threading grins. :eek:

What makes me pucker in me bloomers is setting the tool for that 11 degree "target crown". I have a tool that Slow ground (I keep it touched up, but woe will be me if I ever break it. Doubt if I can replicate it without a sack full of blanks). I can NOT see that underside of the damned thing when I get it set where I think it should be. I use flashlights and mirrors and still cannot be 100% sure. I got a torch tip cleaner pick that I mounted in a piece of wood dowel. I get the thing just where I think it should be, then hold the light, the mirror AND the damned pick and I feel around to make sure the bottom of the tool is clearing the bore before I start the lathe. Sounds like a rube in the shop and well, frankly, it is. In any case, I ain't crashed in a barrel yet. (raps head thrice)

shlomo
January 12, 2009, 22:35
Originally posted by owlcreekok
I remember seeing Dad take cuts that the swarf was blue and the lathe was just squalling.

The blue swarf in the background came from this barrel. A pass of .010" with a carbide TT insert at top spindle speed produced a continuous chip with a tight, 1/8" curl, some of them six feet long. Interesting part is that they came off the bit as a golden straw color for about an inch and a quarter, then turned bright blue.

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/82/10profiledforgasblockansd4.th.jpg (http://img395.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10profiledforgasblockansd4.jpg)

Cutting your 11-degree crown will be a snap for you if you ever get off the Benjamin and getcha a toolpost. And yes, I'm gonna keep jazzin' you until you get it done.

Andy the Aussie
January 13, 2009, 00:52
WTF ...still not finished and test fired YET ...???? :biggrin: :cool: :devil:

owlcreekok
January 13, 2009, 09:06
Put a lid own it Andy. :redface:


I see you got a flat belt drive AND a nice steady. I got vee belts. I dunno if that is good or bad. Indifferent I suppose. If that steady is like Slow's I hate you. His has round fingers with non-ferrous inserts. Mine are flat and steel. :sad: (but you already knew that)

You'll be razzing me a while on the QC, I fear.

I gotta find some drills taday so y'all will stop hammering me to hurry the F up (Slow caleld already this morning, the fugger)

Temp
January 13, 2009, 10:02
Speakin' o'them big ass blue curls that roll out of a lathe,..them can be some bad summabitches. I'm currently nursing a fairly severe case of "chip lip",..first one in a while.

I usually see 'em comin' and get outta the way, but I musta blinked this time, cause first thing I know there is a hot HOT blue coil of S7 stuck up and down on my lips and chin and bringin' smoke outta my moustache.

My spitter immediately went on full auto and was hittin' about 750 RPM,...but I still had to reach up and grab it off with my hand,..and burnt my damn finger too!

Now I gotta put up with people waddin' they face all up at me and askin', "Da fug happened ta *you*?" until it heals up.

Mebsuta
January 13, 2009, 10:31
There are real men on this thread, and that's Y stay in Dumping Brass now.

shlomo
January 13, 2009, 21:26
Originally posted by owlcreekok
Put a lid own it Andy. :redface:


I see you got a flat belt drive AND a nice steady. I got vee belts. I dunno if that is good or bad. Indifferent I suppose. If that steady is like Slow's I hate you. His has round fingers with non-ferrous inserts. Mine are flat and steel. :sad: (but you already knew that)

The vee-belt like you have is considered a significant (and pricey) upgrade over the flat leather belt. A lot of guys with flat belt systems are running automotive serpentine belts with the flat side against the pulleys, and rave over them. I still like the leather, though. It has saved my hide a time or two in the early going, when I ran a tool or the carriage into the chuck. The belt slipping off saves a lot of expensive damage.

I'm pleased that you like the steady. It's home-made. It was somethng like the second or third thing I ever made on a lathe. I made a shoulder bolt for my carriage lock, then a split-ring collar for the outboard end of my spindle, then the steady parts. A bit ambitious, but it came out okay, and was a great way to learn a whole lot of different operations from interior threading to knurling. This is a front shot of it.
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4697/shopbuilttelescopingsteda2.th.jpg (http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shopbuilttelescopingsteda2.jpg)

And yes, I am going to keep on you about the tool post. It is a "must do."

owlcreekok
January 13, 2009, 22:19
The imageshack wouldn't ever paint up. Too fuggin slow. I am cold and tired. I just chambered the barrel tonight. Got the gas block drilled and pinned too. Post pics tomorrow.

I ran the reamer a course red one too far, dammit. I'll know haw bad it is when I get the barrel torqued to noon. Hope it works, but I doubt it. Prolly have to change locking shoulders, dammit. I was trying to chamber it to what I had. I might get there. If i do it will be a loose one at best.

Gotta git.

Nice steady ya build shlomo.

G'nite girls.

shlomo
January 13, 2009, 22:25
Owl, you know you're going to draw two to four thou when you torque, right?

Ya may stay in the zone, yet. Good luck widdit.

Andy the Aussie
January 14, 2009, 00:10
I hain't say'n not'in in case he slaps my nose with the rolled up newspaper again ... ;) ;) :eek: :p

owlcreekok
January 14, 2009, 08:41
Originally posted by shlomo
Owl, you know you're going to draw two to four thou when you torque, right?

Ya may stay in the zone, yet. Good luck widdit.


That's what Slow says. I cawn't git my birdbrain around that, but I will trust you guys. The barrel shoulder is butt up to the receiver face. I got maybe five thou gap atween the breechface and the receiver bottom. How in hell the "draw" is going to mash that shoulder is above my pay grade.

As soon as I can gnaw the extractor slot in this breeach face we is gwyne fine' out.

:shades:

shlomo
January 14, 2009, 09:01
Originally posted by owlcreekok

How in hell the "draw" is going to mash that shoulder is above my pay grade.


Easy. Ya got eight to ten turns of thread shoulder pullin' one way, and one ring of barrel shoulder tryin' ta hold it back. Guess who wins?

owlcreekok
January 14, 2009, 09:06
Originally posted by shlomo


Easy. Ya got eight to ten turns of thread shoulder pullin' one way, and one ring of barrel shoulder tryin' ta hold it back. Guess who wins?

To my mind, there is more mass holding it back than pulling it in.

shlomo
January 14, 2009, 09:25
Yep. But the material is "plastic", and will deform sideways as well as straight back. And it's only a couple three thou, under 80 or 100 ft/lbs.

owlcreekok
January 14, 2009, 09:44
The majority of the advisors has it that when I crank the barrel to torque, all will be well. I have a hunch that even if I cannot grasp the why I will grasp the result with glee. If you lot are wrong, then I still have a locking shoulder that can be adjusted. Worst case, I take it back out and make more swarf. Lol

Sitting there last night, pondering the action's interior, it sure is a long hop for a round to make from sitting in the mag over to the chamber mouth. I might need to paint little arrows in there so the little mouse turd rounds don't get lost along the way.

shlomo
January 14, 2009, 09:46
You could always daub some peanut butter up around the chamber mouth. :wink:

owlcreekok
January 14, 2009, 09:50
On second thought, when I put the SAW butt on it, they will run up the pipe out of sheer terror.

shlomo
January 14, 2009, 09:58
Don't be talkin' about small rodents up the pipe. You'll attract vince or his mentor.

Just sayin.

owlcreekok
January 14, 2009, 15:50
Looks like Ratas had a comment, but took it back. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

S'matta Ratas ? Rodent jokes get yer skivves sygogglin ?

Anyway, them thugs, or the majority of them won't mess around here. They like their guns ready rolled and largely injection molded.

Stupidfuggers.

shlomo
January 15, 2009, 07:23
You ARE joking about the Saw buttstock, right?

owlcreekok
January 15, 2009, 08:06
I will try it on it to see how it feels - shoots. If I like it, I'll leave it. If not, well, you know.

shlomo
January 15, 2009, 08:09
Nuh-uh.:eek:

You think I'm jazzin' ya now about the QC, wait'll I catch you with that stock on yer riffle. The commentary will be loud, unkind, and continuous.

You have been warned.

owlcreekok
January 15, 2009, 08:15
Well, just get after it.

:rofl:

shlomo
January 15, 2009, 08:22
Why'ntcha take that thing and bolt a 2x2 to it, and use it for a paddle when ya go shark fishin'? Cause the sharks don't wanna be seen in the boat with it, that's why.

owlcreekok
January 15, 2009, 08:29
I do not recall whining too much about changing tools with a lantern. Nor do I have any qualms about trying a stock that looks less than another.

Sounds like you have "issues"


heh heh

shlomo
January 15, 2009, 08:40
Originally posted by owlcreekok
I do not recall whining too much about changing tools with a lantern. Nor do I have any qualms about trying a stock that looks less than another.

Sounds like you have "issues"


heh heh

Just the latest: :biggrin:

" I can NOT see that underside of the damned thing when I get it set where I think it should be. I use flashlights and mirrors and still cannot be 100% sure. I got a torch tip cleaner pick that I mounted in a piece of wood dowel. I get the thing just where I think it should be, then hold the light, the mirror AND the damned pick and I feel around to make sure the bottom of the tool is clearing the bore before I start the lathe. Sounds like a rube in the shop and well, frankly, it is. In any case, I ain't crashed in a barrel yet."

There are more.;)

Its true I got issues. Everybody knows that. I also got a black Saw stock I hadda take one year at Stimpy's match fer bein' first loser. I keep it locked up in a separate drawer, so it won' contaminate other stuff. I'll let it go for far less than the 60 bucks that Tapco wants. Brand new.

owlcreekok
January 15, 2009, 14:17
We COULD go to DB to argue all this about Sawbutts and QC vs lanterns, but all the wannabees down there would just interfere.

bykerhd
January 15, 2009, 15:08
Come ON !
Knock off the B.S.ing and lets see some pictures !
Some Progress !
Some.......

OOPs, sorry, flashback to a guy I used to work for a while back.:uhoh: :tongue: :biggrin: :wink:

Great thread so far. Except for the SAW stock thing anyway.

owlcreekok
January 15, 2009, 15:29
Damn ! Take a break, Admiral. :rolleyes:

:biggrin:

Wife took about a dozen night before last when I was chambering it. Here's two. If I get done in here early enough today, I will start whittling the extractor cut. After that, it will be time for the Ratas barrel vise. I will be sure to take pics of that and plug our favorite rodent's wares.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/Chambering004.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/Chambering009.jpg

Temp
January 15, 2009, 23:06
Is that a particle mask on ya chin or have you grown one 'nem Burl Ives goatees?

shlomo
January 16, 2009, 07:11
Owl,

I just went thru the thread twice to check, and you haven't said anything yet about the gas hole in the barrel. Got some questions that might interest the other kiddies out here.

What size hole do you have, or plan to have? How did you determine the size; just used the size Slow has, or what? If so, how did Slow (or whoever did the original fanooldlin') arrive at the correct diameter?

owlcreekok
January 16, 2009, 07:45
More like hulkfugginHogan chops, without the "hulk". :rofl:

I have not drilled the gas hole yet. I will start at thatever a stock Imbel is and go from there. That cannot be but SO complex. :?

Carving this extractor cut is teh sux.

:(

shlomo
January 16, 2009, 09:32
Originally posted by owlcreekok
Carving this extactor cut is teh sux.

:(

A little handwork is good for the soul.:)

stimpsonjcat
January 16, 2009, 17:12
Originally posted by owlcreekok


Carving this extactor cut is teh sux.

:(

Yep, have done several.

Blood of Tyrants
January 16, 2009, 18:39
Originally posted by owlcreekok

Carving this extractor cut is the sux.

:(

Easy. Start by torquing down the barrel onto the receiver and marking the extractor relief with a sharp scribe. Remove the barrel and with a Dremel and new cutting disk, start cutting metal away until you are close. Finish up with a small file, using a regular FAL barrel as a model. I check to see if my relief cut is deep enough by dropping the GO gauge into the chamber (cleaned, of course) and carefully fitting the bolt and extractor over the gauge. I put a piece of paper between the extractor and the relief cut and wiggle it around a bit. Then I look at the paper and see where the high spots are and hit them with a file.

BTW, if you have a C&R license, you get a decent discount on barrels from Shilen and Brownells and Midway. If you buy just one barrel in the three years you have a license, you make your money back.

owlcreekok
January 17, 2009, 19:05
This might be good for the soul, but I am ready for some self medication after a few minutes of this.

I keep repeating, "Patience" "Patience". :angel:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/ExtractorCut001.jpg

shlomo
January 17, 2009, 22:40
Originally posted by owlcreekok
This might be good for the soul, but I am ready for some self medication after a few minutes of this.

I keep repeating, "Patience" "Patience". :angel:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/ExtractorCut001.jpg

'f ya'd a made a bigger hole in the middle, there wouldn't be so damned much stock ta remove.

owlcreekok
January 18, 2009, 07:41
I tried to make up for that by going a tad too deep.

Story of my life.

:|

shlomo
January 18, 2009, 08:10
You kin always rub the sides.

I don't even know what that means, so don't ask.

owlcreekok
January 18, 2009, 08:26
Well, it is forecast to be a pretty day today. I think I will load up and hit the range for a few hours. Maybe come back and file some more. I had thought about going into Houston and picking up the FNC handguards from Slowman, but that is too much driving. My curiosity is up on the HG's. Slow was saying something about a regular HG ring not working with them and turning a custom ring will be on the docket.

Sounds good to me. More swarf. :biggrin: I got a piece of aluminum in the chuck just now,,,,happen so.

shlomo
January 19, 2009, 09:48
Them FNC handguards are gonna look spiffy with that high-speed, low-drag butthook--er, buttstock. Yeah, that's the ticket--buttstock.

How's your progress coming on being a fer-real FAL-filer?

I figger this'll work for a bump.:biggrin:

owlcreekok
January 19, 2009, 10:33
Well, here's a non pictorial update. As much embarrassing as it is, I hope it will help the next person along (as I learn the hard way)

Lesson point : DO NOT under any circumstances, drill and pin the gas block on a custom barrel build until you are 100% sure of the chamber's proper, SHORT CHAMBERED depth !

Description : I will not go into great detail, but will let question and answers take the lead.

I got the extractor cut pretty much done and was simply a gorgeous hand reproduction of an Imbel's, scaled to fit the .223 bolt. Gawrsh was I pround until I realized just how much too deep I ran the chamber reamer. The bolt could not get around the head enough for the extractor to grab. Had I not pinned the gas block, I could have chucked it up and turned ten or twenty off and been golden. Since I HAD committed my barrel to a high noon point, I had to turn .0625" off the breech face and then move the shoulder back the same amount. A word of caution: when this is done, look out for the barrel's threaded are to hit the upper part of the receiver's casting, just below the gas piston hole. You will possibly need to take a little relife cut on the first 1/16" or so of the barrel's threaded portion.

I now have the barrel hand timing where it was and need to touch up the extractor cut. Filing that cut was not nearly so scary and difficult as I first thought.

If I get to build another one, I will complete the breech end 100 % before I touch the gas blco journal or even the barrel length.

TBC

L Haney
January 19, 2009, 10:34
Hey Owl, would you tell me what size/type lathe you've got showing in those pictures? I've got a horrible feeling I'm going to try and lay hands on one in the not too distant future. I've exceeded what I can accomplish with a drill press, and I need something else to complicate my life. Not to mention the pushy friends that just won't shut up. AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!

Lowell

owlcreekok
January 19, 2009, 10:45
That is a 9" swing, South Bend 9A. My Dad bought it new in October of 1946. Hurricane Ike put an Oak through the original bed which was 4 1/2 ft long. I now have replaced that (of course) with a four foot bed. I can get about 24" between centers. The headstock bore is woefully small for a lot of gun work. If you can find a 10K or a 13 South Bend in any kind of shape, grab it. A 9A is fun but very limited.

Make sure you buy a QC toolpost. If you don't shlomo won't STFU.

You can get a new fangle machine for about $4k if you are not too gadget conscious. Google "Enco" and keep the drool off yer tee shirt.

L Haney
January 19, 2009, 11:42
This is why I'm asking for a "machining" section here. I don't want to (and won't) highjack this thread, but I know I'm gonna' pester the hell outa' some of you guys about this subject. I don't want to go to a machining forum cause my questions are going to be about fabricating gun parts. :(

Lowell

owlcreekok
January 19, 2009, 12:02
Practical Machinist Forum (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=24)


Pretty good group there. Most of the regulars in the main forums ARE machinists.

You have been warned.

:eek:


PS- Hijack this one all you want. It's MINE. Any mod who gets presumptuous on here I will shove a wad of swarf up his bum and pack it with a live center, then cap it off with a rusty four jaw chuck.

:skull:

owlcreekok
January 19, 2009, 13:07
Originally posted by Bruce Allen
Owl:
For my simple mind, are you saying one should start at the breach end first and then finish with the gas block last or near last?





Yes.

If one happens to mess up the chamber end threads, profile or go too far with the chamber reamer, AND you have pinned the gas block, then one is BOUND to cut at least ONE full turn of the threads back.

By example. I learned yesterday that I was , maybe ten thou' too deep (.010") with the chamber. With the gas block committed, I could not just trim the ten thou, but had to cut .0625" off the breech face and subsequently move the shoulder back the same amount.

Using a Shilen #5 contour blank, one has so much meat on the breech end, one could possibly cut the breech end profile and threads twice, cut them both off and get it right the third time. However, let's say that our enterprising swarf maker cut the barrel down to 16.25", threaded the breech, turned the Gas block journal, installed and pinned the gas block, THEN ran the reamer 30 thou too deep.

This is where you say buh-bye to a $200 barrel because the fix will make an SBR. That doesn't matter to some folk, but to a heathen like me that is a show stopper. :tongue:

L Haney
January 19, 2009, 14:42
OK, gonna' pour my heart out here. I've WATCHED people operate lathes, milling machines, broaching operations etc. But far as DOING it, no. And I'm old enough and experienced enough in other areas to know what I don't know. I know a 3 jaw chuck will only work with round stock. I know you need a 4 jaw for irregular profiles at the headstock. But I couldn't begin to set up that chuck. I know threading is difficult, I know what chatter is, and what causes it. I know lube and coolant is a good thing. And why. And here's something else I know that some here may not. If you KNOW the terminology for a particular discipline, and I mean really understand the words and all the implications of how they are used, you are 65~70% on your way to being able to do that task. That may sound funny, but in my case it has proved true. Maybe that's cause I'm a little weird about technical terminology. The rest is done hands on. So I said all that to ask this. I need a for real reference tome to learn how to operate a lathe. One that doesn't assume I can't read a mic, or know what eccentricity is. Does this book even exist? I read a little above 10th grade level, so big words are OK.

Lowell

PS: you started this, I told you I didn't want to hijack this thread.

AndyC
January 19, 2009, 15:00
Originally posted by owlcreekok
PS- Hijack this one all you want. It's MINE. Any mod who gets presumptuous on here I will shove a wad of swarf up his bum and pack it with a live center, then cap it off with a rusty four jaw chuck.
I want to know what a live center is - but not in the Biblical sense - so I'ma just sit here in the corner and watch.

L Haney
January 19, 2009, 15:05
My meager knowledge, it lets the center rotate with the work piece. An addition to the tail stock, other end from the chuck. Means you aren't constrained to a "point" type contact if you need something different. And if it is a point, stops damage from rotational friction. Like shoving a center into an existing hole (read muzzle) and burning the crap out of it. I could also be wrong.

Lowell

owlcreekok
January 19, 2009, 15:09
Google (and Amazon dot com) ees yore fren'.

Buy:

HTRAL (How to Run a Lathe).

and / or

"Machine Shop Practice" by K.H. Moltrect


My old copy of HTRAL came with Dad's lathe. The book was written just for lathes of mine's vintage, so it really works well to teach on my machine.


As far as knowing 65% of terminology goes, hell I dunno 65% of a half a sweet f**kall, to use my good British mate's terms, of one damned thing.

So there. :tongue:

I read the HTRAL cover to cover about three times before I had the balls to turn my lathe on. I knew all it's part though. I took it apart down to the smallest component. Scrubbed, degreased, painted and re-assembled after I brought it home. That lathe was especially the embodiment of Dad. He passed last June, then that bastard hurricane did it's shit in September. You talk about one sad, sad bastage, but I wuz it. All that is good memories now. :biggrin:

You prowl around on here and the PM forum. You will find guys (and gals) that will break their necks to help you along. You want to take what I say with a grain of salt. Or maybe a block's worth. I am quite wet behind the ears, still.

owlcreekok
January 19, 2009, 15:26
Andy, (BTW, L Haney, your answer is perfect ! ) Look at post # 1, fifth pic from the top. The silver conical thingy poked into the right hand end of the barrel spins on bearings.

A "dead" center is just a conical thingy that pokes into a hole. Much friction ensues, mitigated as best as possible by lubricant(s). Some things just won't abide such friction. Hence a "live" or "moving rotationally" center.

Capische ?

L Haney
January 19, 2009, 15:29
"Wet behind the ears" I like that. Means you're still humble and willing to learn. Where the hell are moses and schlomo anyway, I was expecting some abuse 'bout gettin' above myself by now. Thanks for the book titles, I'll get them on the way. Lot of the stuff I piddle with would be easier with the right tools. I made some pulleys for a telescope mount/drive from corian counter top material. Made up a jig for the router from aluminum scrap to cut the outline. Checked 'em yesterday after mounting them on the shaft and I've got .0015 runout per the dial indicator. It's all positive, so truing them will be simpler. They're 12.5 inches in diameter. I'm gettin' tired of doing things like a Pakistani with a file and a hacksaw. I want to move on.

Lowell

AndyC
January 19, 2009, 15:46
Originally posted by owlcreekok
Capische ?
Got it, boss, thanks - that makes sense, even to me :D :beer:

owlcreekok
January 19, 2009, 15:53
Shlomo will be along shortly to toss in his smartass remarks.

However, when the likes of him, Slow, moses, idsubgun, Yovinny, Blood of Tyrants, Temp (two or three more are on the tip of my tongue, oh yeah, Aifwikr, Gunplumber,,,,there are more,,,,,,when they opens they mouf, STFU time has come for me.

Of course when the topic is GNFD or DeeBee, all bets are off for me doing any STFU'ing.

I gotta git.

worldskipper
January 19, 2009, 18:12
Dang Jerry you are getting to be worthless.


Here we are in the gunsmithin' forum and 3 pages worth of crappy pictures, I ain't seen no blood, no Dremel, and no BFH.

Weak, man, Weak.

Not only that, you talk about forming a mag adapter, shesh, I thought you were smarter than that.

You know where one is, just trade the monkey with a gun for a couple of case of Pearl Beer or Lone Star. That way you won't have to spend all that time bending metal around the corners of Janis's car and easel.

FAL GRUNT
January 19, 2009, 18:40
Originally posted by AndyC

I want to know what a live center is - but not in the Biblical sense - so I'ma just sit here in the corner and watch.

I don't know if you were joking or not...

A live center has a conical point that allows you to turn or polish or thread something referencing off of that center. In the case of the barrel, this allows you to work from the bore, keeping everything concentric.

The "live" aspect is that the center turns on a set of bearings helping to prevent any wear or damage to the piece.

-myers

shlomo
January 19, 2009, 19:50
http://www.petpics.net/dp/files/1-116.jpg

owlcreekok
January 19, 2009, 21:59
Damn. I wanna meet HER, shlomo ! :uhoh:

Gotsta take yer cig' layin' down. Must be some goooooooooooood cooter.

:love:

Anyway...I had to slap some of it together tanight. Jus' ta git the feel of it, mind. Barrel is essentially done until I get it buttoned up for final headspace reaming.

Time to massage this Entreprise receiver a little. I got to fit a charging handle and lug. Damn upper is a few thou' out of spec where the CH fitment is concerned. Moreover, I got to make shlomo's folding CH fit it. Stole it off the dawg whlie he was follerin that gyp down the hill inta the brush. Seeing him layin up there tokin that smoke all splayed out calls my decision to stay in the shop into question.

Oh well. Here's the latest bad pic.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/DSCN3744.jpg

shlomo
January 19, 2009, 22:19
Originally posted by owlcreekok
Damn. I wanna meet HER, shlomo ! :uhoh:

You don't reckanize 'er? She's the pooch ya screwed. :wink:
Seriously, though, have you figured out how you went too far with the chamber reaming. Some a these guys (including yours truly) would like to have a chance not to repeat the mistake, if you can tell us what went wrong.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/DSCN3744.jpg

I see you really WERE just funnin' with me about that SAW stock. Had me goin' for a while.

owlcreekok
January 19, 2009, 22:32
Slow will beat me for this.............

I blew the chamber out twice while cutting it. I would push a empty case in ans look see how much I had to go. Then I quit that and just had a visual point on the reamer that I decided was going to be well away from the stop place.

Well, I missed it. Best I can figure, looking back at the notes. (I DO take a lot of notes) I missed it a fuzz over 20 thou. IIRC it is six thou between a go and a nogo. It swallowed a nogo on a .252 LS. Lacking 1 hour before TDC timing. I put a .259 in it and it STILL swallowed a no go.

Six thou between the gages plus 7 thou increase in LS plus (WAG) 3 thou crush on torque and I MIGHT have been within using another locking shoulder distance.

I went to filing the extractor cut, hoping for the best. When I got it cut about right, the bolt face abutted the breech face before the extractor could snap around the case rim. I said the F bomb here quite a few times.

I had compared how much a .308 case sticks out of an Imbel barrel but never measured it like Slow told me to. I never really set up any way to precisely measure the chamber cutting. I just did it by the seat of my pants thinking I would easily be able to stop WAY short. Visually. Well, I almost ruined the barrel.

Blood of Tyrants
January 19, 2009, 22:35
Some tips for the hobbyist with a lathe but no access to a mill and precision grinder, etc.

Cut the breech shoulder first, then ream the chamber to correct depth (A 308 Win GO gauge should protrude about 0.129" above the breech). If you make a mistake and ream a bit too deep now, you only have to cut the shoulder and face down a little more to fix it.


AFTER those are cut properly, THEN thread the breech end. Cut down the very end of the breech to 0.900" dia about 1/8" from the end or your threads will bind.

Once the threads are cut, mark 27 cm (20 cm for the shorty handguards) exactly from the shoulder. That will be the back edge of your gas block journal. Hand fit your gas block. Metric gas blocks run about 0.693", inch a little less at about 0.689-0.692". Cut a little and test fit. You may need to turn down the breech end to fit, too.

Now thread it onto the receiver or a receiver stub and tighten it down. Use a scribe to mark the extractor relief cut and using the gas cylinder nut hole in the receiver as a guide, mark TDC on the barrel. I start the handguard screw hole and gas block pin holes with a triangular file and use a 7/32" chainsaw file to make the handguard screw dimple and a smaller file to round out the gas block pin dimple using the gas block as a guide for placement.

Remove the barrel and cut the majority of the extractor relief cut with a Dremel and a cutoff disk. Put the GO gauge in the bolt and insert it into the CLEAN chamber with a piece of paper between the extractor and extractor relief cut. Wiggle and rotate to rub the paper through and find the high spots. Finish up with a file.


Install the gas block and pin. Drill the gas port with a #41 bit. A little larger for a shorter barrel.

shlomo
January 19, 2009, 22:58
Originally posted by owlcreekok
Slow will beat me for this.............

I blew the chamber out twice while cutting it. I would push a empty case in ans look see how much I had to go. Then I quit that and just had a visual point on the reamer that I decided was going to be well away from the stop place.

Slow oughta beat ya. With some kinda implement, too. One with ground glass in it. Yeah.

Lessee if I got this right. Ya got a $200 barrel blank, with G_d knows how many hours wortha handwringin' and whittlin', and you're reaming the chamber by eyeball?

We want pictures when Slow gets finished with ya.
I can only hope he's in a bad mood when he gets there.

(There. Was that the sorta smartass stuff you were lookin' for? It's the best I can do on short notice and it's late, and I'm sober. Sorry)

Temp
January 20, 2009, 00:35
Originally posted by FAL GRUNT


I don't know if you were joking or not...

A live center has a conical point that allows you to turn or polish or thread something referencing off of that center. In the case of the barrel, this allows you to work from the bore, keeping everything concentric.

The "live" aspect is that the center turns on a set of bearings helping to prevent any wear or damage to the piece.

-myers

Translation:

It's a pointed thing that's stuck in the ass end of the lathe.

Ya pork it into the end of the workpiece so's it doesn't wiggle around and shit when ya cuttin' on it.

shlomo
January 20, 2009, 08:08
Mornin' Owl...

Since you still need to ream again to headspace, it would help to have some means to control feed, like the dial on Slow's tailstock wheel, that shows feed in thousandths.

My offer from back awhile still stands to lend you my tailstock dial setup, if you want. It installs in about one minute, with two allen head cap screws. You can pretty well control feed to the thousandth, if you have good touch on the reamer handle to tell when you're cutting, as opposed to dragging in the hole.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5975/002sz7.th.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=002sz7.jpg)

Either that, or I can post a couple more pics with details, so you can make one yer ownself.

owlcreekok
January 20, 2009, 09:15
Mornin, shlomo, Et Al.

First, thanks for the run down, BoT. Good stuff there. That is going in my folders.

Temp, the trouble with your translation is that I seem to find myself running the lathe in just such a spirit. ie- "Jam that fugger up in there and let er' knaw. That little titty thang is where I need to stop, so I will stop about fitty wide c***hairs from there and be golden."

Lemme get through this one and I will take your tailstock dial thingy for a few days to copy it. I'll pay the shipping both ways of course, but lemme do that all up front in a month or three.

I can't lie to myself, I am going to do another one. I got no kit or no receiver to use now, but I wil start looking. Seems I am a glutton for punishment as I am thinking a 7.62 x 39 FAL next. :cry: (Ain't even got THIS one done yet)

twistedneck
January 20, 2009, 18:13
I'm not a barrel expert, however there is always the light stress relief method of heating the metal part below its tempring temperature for a certain period of time. You do this while its fixtured straight, that way it tends to relax the internal stresses - this can take several hours above 600F in some cases depending upon the alloy - 4140 only needs about 500F.

shlomo
January 20, 2009, 18:19
I just turned one this weekend, when the shop was 11-degrees. Got the cryo treatment for free.:wink:

owlcreekok
January 20, 2009, 19:23
Okay.

Now that we know LHaney is a budding swarf eater, can we get a little commentary on just why I cannot remember what I did to make a folding CH work on a metric upper ?

Seems to me, I ground off a fraction of a yard of those pesky CH rails.

Am I close ?

"Cryo for free"

Money is for nuthin, but that little faggot got a jet airplane.

shlomo
January 20, 2009, 20:18
Stimpy favors those folding handles. Maybe he'll duck in here.

I think Slocat also may know a thing or two about 'em.

I don't.

bykerhd
January 20, 2009, 20:48
owl !
If you are already thinking ahead to another caliber.
Why aren't you taking the more logical approach and following Meeper's lead and building a switch barrel set-up ?
Especially with the scarcity of FAL receivers.
And, the price when you do find them these days.

owlcreekok
January 20, 2009, 22:02
Originally posted by bykerhd
owl !
If you are already thinking ahead to another caliber.
Why aren't you taking the more logical approach and following Meeper's lead and building a switch barrel set-up ?
Especially with the scarcity of FAL receivers.
And, the price when you do find them these days.


Ahhh, too much trouble to me. I would like to have a few barreled uppers to swap out on a lower. That'd be fun.

I fixed the CH. Should work fine. I filed the handle (like Slow just tol't me to). Works like a charm.

I is to tired to do pics tonight. Got a hard day ahead tomorrow. Won't get much more time on this for a day or two. I need about a good hour in bright daylight to jack around with the upper then it is time to button this thing up. It might just go to the range SUnday.

Lots of pics then.

L Haney
January 20, 2009, 22:13
Sunday! Sunday! Sunday! Don't Miss It, Be Therrrrre!

AndyC
January 20, 2009, 22:26
Originally posted by FAL GRUNT
I don't know if you were joking or not...

A live center has a conical point that allows you to turn or polish or thread something referencing off of that center. In the case of the barrel, this allows you to work from the bore, keeping everything concentric.

The "live" aspect is that the center turns on a set of bearings helping to prevent any wear or damage to the piece.

-myers
Thanks for the explanation - I wasn't kidding, I know zero about machining, but I'd like to learn.

stimpsonjcat
January 21, 2009, 17:31
Lowell, just come by sometime and try it...but that will be the end of your resolve.

I have done the CH both ways, depending on what the owner wanted done.

I will need some details on that tailstock piece Shlomo, clamps to the ram?

I have gotten to the point I simply hate my 3-jaw chuck.

I just bought a new 4-jaw to make a cheap-o rotary table for the mill with. I bought some random index plates off egay and I have an idea that really wants out.

My condolences Owl...I cannot count the number of items I have made slip fit instead of press fit by missing the mark by just that little bit. The second one is always faster to make! :D

shlomo
January 21, 2009, 22:27
Originally posted by stimpsonjcat
I will need some details on that tailstock piece Shlomo, clamps to the ram?


PM inbound. I'm close to makin' a career outta jackin' this thread, and am resolved to do better.

owlcreekok
January 21, 2009, 22:50
's all good fellas.

I put the whole thing together tonight. Es'epp the foresight.

Barrel was hand timed a shade before 11. Went to 12 with a disturbingly low amount of torque. Prolly back it out and put locktite on it. I doubt it is needful. It ain't THAT loose, but I am skeery about such.

Damn HG's won't fit right and my spiffy new ground to shit folding CH hits the HG's a bit. I tried the original CH but forgot sumpin about it. (I suspect the upper is the culprit here) The lug on the CH will not engage ANY bolt carrier. Too short. The folding CH does it fine, just hits the HG when folded. Kind of a pisser. Little bugger can kiss my ass. I'll MAKE me a CH lug that is long enough to rack the action from either side. :devil:

Another pisser is that I just could NOT make pins work tonight. Every fargin time I tried a CH pin install or the gas tube pin install I buggered it. *shit*ass*hole* :redface: I almost cussed a time or two. :angel:

I fought the bolt's riding up at the widow's peak,,,,PEAK until I got pissed and tried to see if my torch would light. Lucky it was dark and cold. Wouldn't light off.

More "almost cussin' "

I got it filed down low enough that it clears. REALLY clears. :eek: When I had it together as a .308 and I tried to chamber a round, the bolt jammed when it hit the too high widow peak. That shit ain't gonna happen no more.

"member that I hadda take the breech and shoulder up some due to stupidf**kery on the reamer ? Guess what is a bit too long ? How did you guess the gas piston ? Smarty pants. :rolleyes:

I set it in the corner in here. Gonna give it a break for a day or two then see if I can get the reamer to match the locking shoulder that I got in it. Or come out the fuggin muzzle.


Edit add- I was BS'ing about loctite on the barrel. I DO have a breeching washer or two around. :tongue:

L Haney
January 22, 2009, 18:41
Keep at it Owl, I'm rootin' fer ya. Dead on my feet, wanna play here, but I'm outa' gas. Gotta sleep now. Work is killing me right now. Need some more pics, Owl.

Lowell

1811GNR
January 23, 2009, 21:02
Did setting the barrel back 0.625 leave you with the right length to use the FNC handguards with a standard handguard ring?

(No bad dreams now).

owlcreekok
January 23, 2009, 22:46
Originally posted by 1811GNR
Did setting the barrel back .625 leave you with the right length to use the FNC handguards with a standard handguard ring?

Well, almost. :biggrin:

I will need a bit of a spacer. O-ring,,,, sumpin. I actually had the Imbel HG's on it, but they are a real jam fit. Slow made a custom HG ring for his last custom barrel project. After I really thought that through, I chickened out on that. Rather gave it up for too much work at this point. I like the look of the FNC guards so far.

Oh yeah, add a zero in the measurement up there. You would not want me to dream about taking 0.5625" too much off a barrel and wake up kicking the wife wouldja ?

:rofl:


I stopped that .223 FAL work tonight to assemble a Polish UF. Got to find where the bolt is pinching, then it will be ready for a range trip.

owlcreekok
January 28, 2009, 08:34
Slight update. Maybe get a pic or two later today.

The FNC HG's are installed. Used a section of an O ring like I said and it works great. I have a 10-32 screw and nut holding them to the gas block. Not quite as tight as I would like the screw to be. I will tweak that at some point.

The Folding CH works fine as modfied. In the back of my mind, I am a bit miffed at the idea that a standard metric CH rides over the bolt carrier. Metric upper ought to work with a metric CH. Both metric and the Inch folder seem to have the same dimensions with regard to the lug's protrusion through the CH slot. I know there has to be something different here, but like the HG screw. Not worth brain damage at this point.

I've still not headspaced it. A few twists with the chamber reamer and that will be a done deal. Not that I am afraid of it, but maybe I hesitate because I was such a dumb boob when I over cut the chamber the first time.

The gas port is not yet drilled. I got a handful of letter drills that I boght back when I was messing with cutting down a barrel or two. Just got to get a dowel or sumpin to put in the bore then cipher out what size drill to start with. I will prolly go small to get a hole through, then use a hand chuck where necessary to open it up when I am test firing it.

Mag adapter. Being the ADD type, I got off on that tangent a few days ago. Slow brought his SAR 4800 to the range Sunday. I got a good look at the mag release mechanism. It took Slow a little effort to get all that sunk into my thick skull. Finally, after he suggested that the drop I cut off the barrel might make a good base pin I started making chip on that part of this project. As some of you know, the mag release for this contraption replaces the hinge pin. There is a hollow pin, sans threads that replaces the part of the hinge pin that accepts the two pronged "screw" on a standard FAL pin. Through this pin extends a shaft that has an arm that crosses over and has an integral lug (rectangular) that engages the AR mag's corresponding hole for mag catch. The other end of this shaft is threaded and protrudes through the base pin just enough to take a "cap". This cap has a coil spring under it and serves as the button pressed to release the mag. Pictures to follow will hopefully make this clear. I have some pics that Slow sent of his factory one. I just got to host them.

The flat metal task of forming the mag adapter proper is still, well, flat. I have Slow's Imbel adaptor and will use it for test fire if I have to. I would rather finish the home made one. I have to make a press punch and die to form the mag catch depression. There are two more small dimples I just noticed in this thing. They seem to be "clearance dimples" (Think of the dimples in an AK receiver that make the mag fit tight) I may or may not try to press these in. If I NEED those raised areas, I wil do it with weldment, or so I am thinking now.

So far, this is a lot of fun. Much more self satisfying than placing a FAL kit and an upper in a box and shaking until it shoots.

Pics to follow. Some of you would appreciate all the aluminum swarf that is bugging the shit outta me out there. I am making that mag release button out of a piece of 2" aluminum shaft. :uhoh:

Slow
January 28, 2009, 09:09
Originally posted by owlcreekok


(like Slow just tol't me to). Works like a charm.




i wonder why you post a paragraph of how things went wrong, Then you end the post with this statement.


there seems to be a few of them in this thread....hummmmmmm. :rolleyes:




can lead a Owl to scotch but can't make him drink it........:whiskey:

shlomo
January 28, 2009, 09:31
Owl,

A small piece of 1/2" aluminum plate a size "N" drill will make a nifty mold for producing half-inch long cylinders of lead that are .302" diameter. (Know anybody with bullet casting equipment?)

The said slug can be pushed down the bore until it is under your gas port location, and then upset sideways to fill the grooves tightly using a couple cleaning rods or pieces of 1/4" drill rod to hammer both ends simultaneously.

This supports the edge of the hole very nicely when the bit breaks out, and leaves a very nice, clean hole. Push out the slug afterward, and you are done.:smile:

ETA:

Major brainfart. Forget the .302 slugs. Make that drill a #2. Makes a .221 hole.

Blame it on lack of booze.

Slow
January 28, 2009, 09:49
Good idea on the lead slug Shlomo, after reflection on this i wonder if cerosafe would easier, use a cleaning rod with a patch jammed ahead of it and just behind the gas block then pour the melted cerosafe down the bore. with its low melting point just warm the barrel and pour it out.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=384&title=CERROSAFE~%20CHAMBER%20CASTING%20ALLOY

shlomo
January 28, 2009, 09:53
Though I've never used it, I understand it has very low shrinkage on cooling. So it might be just fine. OTOH, I don't know how "plastic" it is. If it turns out to be a bit loose in the bore, can it be upset sideways like the lead?

Slow
January 28, 2009, 09:58
Originally posted by shlomo
Though I've never used it, I understand it has very low shrinkage on cooling. So it might be just fine. OTOH, I don't know how "plastic" it is. If it turns out to be a bit loose in the bore, can it be upset sideways like the lead?


i dont think it would upset sideways, as i use it for chamber castings and gettin bore dimensions, i have not used it for this particular purpose but i dont see why it wont work, and it seems easier than making a plug to size and then mashing it, also you wont have to drive it out.


maybe if i get some to "grasshopper". i might get him to try it out....maybe, he dont follow instructions too well...



possibly need to hammer him with a stick more often....

*note to self make sure i dont use a stupid stick, hes been hit with one once too often methinks*

owlcreekok
January 28, 2009, 10:04
You get any closer to the fuse with that match and you gonna light sumpin you can't put out.

:|

Slow
January 28, 2009, 10:48
Originally posted by owlcreekok
You get any closer to the fuse with that match and you gonna light sumpin you can't put out.

:|



pffffttt.........

owlcreekok
January 28, 2009, 15:04
Lessee, here.

Fumble f**k around with lead for an hour or so.

Fumble f**k around with CerroSafe for an hour or so.

Shove a stick innit and drill for a few minutes.


I am gonna go with "C".

Then I'll have a lot of time left to tell you two how many times to GFY.

:rofl:


Seriously, I like the idea, shlomo. That drill breaking through and leaving burrs always has kinda bothered me.

Slow
January 28, 2009, 21:01
Originally posted by owlcreekok
Lessee, here.

Fumble f**k around with lead for an hour or so.

Fumble f**k around with CerroSafe for an hour or so.

Shove a stick innit and drill for a few minutes.


I am gonna go with "C".

Then I'll have a lot of time left to tell you two how many times to GFY.

:rofl:


Seriously, I like the idea, shlomo. That drill breaking through and leaving burrs always has kinda bothered me.




Fumble f**k around for hours or so trying to get the bur around the hole out.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

owlcreekok
January 29, 2009, 05:31
Originally posted by Slow





Fumble f**k around for hours or so trying to get the bur around the hole out.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Shoot it out like i allus have.

NOW who gots rollyass eyes ?

Go home and play PC games with gilliiee.

ratas calientes
January 29, 2009, 12:01
Originally posted by owlcreekok
Looks like Ratas had a comment, but took it back. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

S'matta Ratas ? Rodent jokes get yer skivves sygogglin ?

Anyway, them thugs, or the majority of them won't mess around here. They like their guns ready rolled and largely injection molded.

Stupidfuggers. I told Vince you wanted to take him out. He is now all twitterpated with anticipation. Don't disappoint him, you here?

http://chilirat.com/emoticons/chilirat.gif

owlcreekok
January 29, 2009, 12:23
:rofl:

He don't know what I mean when I say, "Take him out" , does he ?

:devil:


While I got you distracted, you ought to know that the Ratas vise even works well on barrels WAY too big for it.

:bow:

chromestarhustler
January 29, 2009, 12:30
I am still waiting for slow to make me a mag AS PROMISED for MY 22-250 fal. as mine is currently limited to my 5 round mag i made.

Slow
January 29, 2009, 12:35
Originally posted by chromestarhustler
I am still waiting for slow to make me a mag AS PROMISED for MY 22-250 fal. as mine is currently limited to my 5 round mag i made.



I did?

shlomo
January 29, 2009, 13:49
Originally posted by Slow

I did?

Don' open ya mout' while drankin'.

owlcreekok
January 29, 2009, 14:05
Originally posted by shlomo


Don' open ya mout' while drankin'.


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnngggggggg !!!

owlcreekok
January 30, 2009, 19:28
Since the last serious episode (barring the serious level in which Slow got zinged) this is what has been keeping me busy. I got off on one end then ran around the middle, so to speak. The mag catch intrigued me so I got right into it. The mag catch-release replaces the hinge pin. So I turned this out of the drop from the barrel.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/FAL%20223/MagRelease004.jpg

Then, I needed a button that will be the mag release actuator. Shown beside it is the spring that will be under it. More on that later.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/FAL%20223/MagRelease005.jpg

Here is the base pin installed with the pin that will go through the rifle, shown with the button on it and spring in relative position.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/FAL%20223/MagRelease003.jpg

Shown here is a couple of views of the assembly as it is at this stage of fabrication.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/FAL%20223/MagRelease002.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/owlcreekok/FAL%20223/MagRelease001.jpg

Got to go grill dinner. More text later.

Fun Times as Creator0203 would say.

the gman
February 03, 2009, 23:26
OK, I'm away from da PC for a few days & the job stops, WTF over???:uhoh: Too much fooking around going on here, you lot would never have lasted in Her Majesty's Armed Forces I'll tell ya.....:mad: :wink:

Looka, get ahold of the cordless drill, slap the right sized drill bit in 'er & be gittin' down to it on that gas port. Sheez, talking of lead & Cerrosafe & friggin' dowels, the bloody war will be over by the time you Yanks get into it.......oops, slipped back a few years there, WW2 to be exact..... :smile:

Seriously, use the dowel or the lead or whatever takes yer fancy but if you don't, a .40 cal bronze brush on a STURDY cleaning rod will rip that swarf outta dat gas port as nice as you like. Or, you could just shoot it & then brush the crap out of it.......:devil:

C'mon man, where's the update, huh, huh??? Stop associating with Mikey & VMTZ down in DB & you'll get more done......:] :rofl:

owlcreekok
February 04, 2009, 06:32
Aye, Cap'm.

I'll be saddlin up then.

This job takes a fair amount of pontificatin' yas know. We only recently discovered that the BHO pin is not going to work as issued with a 7.62 metric. I got to fan-agle sumpin fer dat to work out.

I DO got to get moving. I hope this one and my favorite FrankenFal to be my only two rifles at FalFest.

Slow
February 04, 2009, 11:06
you aint got the BHO done, i just sent you pics this morning............come on lighting.....

owlcreekok
February 04, 2009, 11:17
That will be some tricky metalwork there. No doubt I am up to it. Anyone wish to comment as to how THEY would proceed ?

My first thought is welding. I have no TIG gear and MIG will lay too much too quick, especially with my low degree of practice. I am pretty darned good with a #1 tip on my oxy-acet rig, but getting on it and getting off before the flame messes up the main body will be a trick with a hole innit. Slow, you said "solder". getting "sil-fos" to stick will take as much diration of flame application as welding (almost). No way can I thread the pin up that close.

Maybe if I put a slave pin to hold the spring and plunger away and keep the pencil flame directed well away from the body I can do it. Maybe fashion a flat metal heat shield as well to keep the flame fan from getting where it shouldn't.

I got exactly ONE BHO at this point. Might hafta ,,,oh yeah, we talked about that, eh Slow !

Need some measurements.

Slow
February 04, 2009, 11:28
about that big, X, soo much, X, a tad

dont worry looked in my stash i have an extra if you fugkitupasusuall...

owlcreekok
February 04, 2009, 11:50
I might just fudge and get Luis to TIG it for me. That's the long haired welder I was telling you about. That cat is spooky good with a TIG. Pretty spooky dude too, until you get to know him. :eek:

Slow
February 04, 2009, 15:56
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:



i can zap it just fine with my mig. get enough on it to hold just fine, unless you just have a hankerin to drive out to the main office.

owlcreekok
February 04, 2009, 16:13
Unless you missed it, smartass, the shop is moving closer to me.

You weld every day, doncha ?

Sometimes I wonder if you and a certain 'smith from Arizona ain't having an affair.


:rolleyes:

Slow
February 04, 2009, 16:52
well if you wait until midend of march thats fine with me, did not wanna waste wire on your stupid shyt anyhow.....

owlcreekok
February 04, 2009, 17:08
:rofl:


At the rate you work on stuff, a waste of wire would be progress.

:rofl:

English Mike
February 04, 2009, 18:14
Originally posted by owlcreekok
:rofl:


At the rate you work on stuff, a waste of wire would be progress.

:rofl:

He uses more wire twisted round the parts of his jalopy that are falling off than he does for its intended use. :wink:

the gman
February 10, 2009, 11:14
SO?? Where's the updates slackers??? I know what it is, you got involved with Slow & there's a reason for his user name y'know..... :uhoh: :biggrin:

owlcreekok
February 10, 2009, 11:44
Probably going to stall a little more, GJ. Work is slamming me pretty hard these days. I am spending much of my "spare" time trying to get some headway on replacing what Ike tore up. We finally got the insurance settlement, new roof on the main house. Now I am free to spend time and money to replace the POS shop-garage that was here when we moved in. Storm did me a favor, all in all, by trashing the old barn.

You'll see and shoot the .223 FAL at FalFest, if my goals are met.

Of course Slow will take all the credit, but credit costs while investments tend to pay.

:shades:

the gman
February 10, 2009, 23:39
Just busting on ya man, been hard at it myself the last few days, had a gunshow here in town over the weekend & was working it, selling a few AR lowers to keep the wolf from the door.

Damn snow blew in Monday after sitting in an OSHA class wif Splat all day; woke up today to find 6 inches of the white stuff all over the place. Only consolation is that I might finally get to use all the snow camo I got for a good price at Shot this year........:D :wink:

Y'all be good & be careful on the construction, I know ya gots wings on ya avatar, I don't wanna be hearing yer wearing 'em fer real cuz ya fell off the roof..:cry: :uhoh: I'm serious too, old 'Q' from the James Bond movie died when he fell off his roof adjusting his TV antenna.....:eek: Don't be following his lead dude.....

gunnut1
February 12, 2009, 10:31
Damn and I sold my Wiliams Aluma bomb recever. Just my luck!!!

Nice job Sit Hooty. Seems you do have some talent after all!!!:biggrin"

owlcreekok
February 21, 2009, 23:34
Personally, I would not build a .223 on an aluminum upper. Some might, not me. Just skeerd I reckon.

I chambered it tonight. It is a little generous but won't close on a go gage. I reckon since it is a FALMouse hybrid it needs to be two pinkies closure pressure in lieu of two fums. :tongue:

I will take some pics of interest in a day or four and post them. Interesting development in the finishing the chamber. A little background,

I put a .2515 LS in it back when I was building the upper with an Imbel kit. It never ran, the Entreprise upper had some "issues". I had tried to fit this .223 barrel to it and as was previously posted, I ran the reamer too deep. The upper has a bigger LS in it now, I forget the size. I buttoned the barrel up after turning it back a full turn to shorten the chamber back up (already told that, of course). So, I set about to figure to simply fit the chamber to the LS that is in it. Not wanting to keep driving LS out and in, thereby loosening the LS hole.

Guess what ?

You can't turn a finish reamer in a FAL with any ordinary tool to fit on the reamer shaft (ie=socket tee handle, etc). The ejector is about 3/8" behind the end of the seated reamer and right beside the reamer shaft on the way in. (this will take a pic to appreciate, guys)

Today, I made a tool to turn a finish reamer in a barreled FAL. I cut off a 3/8" drive female x 1/4" drive male socket adaptor and welded it to a piece of 1/4" cold rolled rod, welded another short piece of cold rolled for a tee handle and I went on the chamber like a public job. Worked like a champ.

I was gonna go to the range tomorrow and make it go "boom" but baten called and we is going to a Garand match in the morning.

This thing will test fire soon though.

Cheers

Jerry