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roster228
January 05, 2009, 11:51
I know that these rifles are hit and miss in the function department. However Ive always wanted one and just came into one at a good price. Its the .308/Indian version. Havent shot it yet, will soon.

My question(s) are about sights and scope mounts. The short sight radius of these rifles means I would probably end up considering new sights even if I wasnt already interested in them.

I have found some listing for forward mounted "scout" scope mounts, non-gunsmithing rear mounts which seem to be a mixed bag in reviews and different rear sights such as the mojo.

Without having shot the rifle I can say I would lean toward a scout mount or the mojo, has anyone had experience with either in this type rifle?

roster228
January 08, 2009, 21:55
Okay well, thanks for all the helpful suggestions, let me spring for a round. No, No I insist.

Mojo ordered.

Hot Diggity
January 09, 2009, 00:20
Maybe it's bacause we're not quite sure what it is you're asking. Gibbs converted quite a few old Enfields to 45/70, but I can't find anything about
.308 models. I tried searching on-line and found nothing. Pictures? Links?
Is it similar to the Gibbs Summit or Frontier models? There are companies making no-gunsmithing scope mounts for most Enfield models.

I'm intrigued. As a fan of Gibbs and Ishapore .308's I'd like to hear more.

HD

mitchellh
January 09, 2009, 07:06
IIRC, Gibbs took over Navy Arms, and the Quest carbines are supposed to be the better refurbished Ishapore 2As, but the metal wasn't parked. These rifles also included different calibers. I could be wrong though.

I have had a scount mount on another Ishy 2A, but wasn't impressed. I'm not sure if it was the inexpensive scope, the rifle or me. I've since disposed of two out of the three:) The scout mount was very solid though, it may have been from S&K, I really can't be sure though.

Is yours similar to this? This is a Navy Arms Ishapore 2A1 Jungle conversion I purchased in 1996. I haven't shot this one much, as the front site blade was loose when I purchased it. I would be interested in seeing of the results of your Quest carbine search.


http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4606/l1010063edited1mg3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/1796/l1010062edited1xg5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/2215/l1010068edited1hy8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Good Luck.

roster228
January 09, 2009, 09:29
Yeah its much the same, except for having a nickel finish.

Sorry, I think its actually called Gibbs Quest Extreme II. There is quite a bit about them (308) online, some rifles apparently worked well and some did not.

Actually the S&K mounts were what I was looking at. Everything I have been able to find online has tended to suggest they perform well on some Ishapor Rifles and not so well on others. I found some review/threads about the mojo sight on these rifles, but again it was with mixed results.

I decided to try the mojo first, see how that goes.

bykerhd
January 09, 2009, 10:46
The reason why there MAY be some differences from one rifle to another.....
(the image is actually Pakistan)

roster228
January 09, 2009, 16:24
Oh I KNOW!!!! Some guy assembling rifles and takes a break to go milk the goats!

Actually thats what I thought too, but to be honest from everything Ive read the Ishapore rifles are supposed to be of really decent quality. What was done to them by Gibbs, etc seems to be the question asked by some. I dont know, now Im sick so I still havent shot it yet.

The mojo arrived today. If I can stay out of the little room long enough I may actually get it installed.

dfletcher
January 13, 2009, 22:52
I have an SMLE Ishapore in 308 - the full length, not a rework - and a Gibbs Frontier in 45/70 and each has the S & K scope mount. Easy to install but you do have to remove a touch of wood inside the forend. Not seen at all though.

The S & K is solid, but when they say to retighten the rear nut after 50 rounds or so they really mean it, otherwise the tail end of the mount will move up. And you have to make it really, really tight. Also, you'll have to do a bit of filing to the mount in order to remove the bolt from the rifle action.

shlomo
January 14, 2009, 08:13
Originally posted by bykerhd
The reason why there MAY be some differences from one rifle to another.....
(the image is actually Pakistan)

WHAT? Century outsourced the Angry Beaver jobs?


Is nothing sacred?

roster228
January 15, 2009, 23:02
Originally posted by dfletcher
I have an SMLE Ishapore in 308 - the full length, not a rework - and a Gibbs Frontier in 45/70 and each has the S & K scope mount. Easy to install but you do have to remove a touch of wood inside the forend. Not seen at all though.

The S & K is solid, but when they say to retighten the rear nut after 50 rounds or so they really mean it, otherwise the tail end of the mount will move up. And you have to make it really, really tight. Also, you'll have to do a bit of filing to the mount in order to remove the bolt from the rifle action.

Hey thanks, I appreciate the info.

However- I managed to get better, get the mojo installed and try to do some shooting. Dismal. Shot about ten rounds total, not for want of shooting more. Continually failed to extract. Had several Fail to Fires. In trying to figure out what was going on, the first thing to come to mind was what can be fixed by a good tear-down cleaning, which I had not done yet. That may fix the FTF problem, but I dont expect it to fix the extraction problem.

You know, like I said, I knew these rifles were hit and miss for function. So I went into this ready for such things. Well see if I can fix them or not. A challenge!

dfletcher
January 16, 2009, 01:51
On my 1st range trip with the Ishapore all went well, when I checked out the rifle later I noticed there was no extractor spring - someone had cut up a rubber eraser and stuffed the damn thing in there. Surprised the heck out of me that it functioned, I've replaced it.

mike minihan
January 16, 2009, 13:56
Rooster,I bought two 2A rifles a few years ago when AIM first offered them.
Both were loaded with cosmoline,as you've said cleaning the bolt will more
than likely cure the ftf problem,maybe the extract/eject problem too.
Some of the rifles were built using .303 Brit extractor.

[URL=http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-291981.html
I hope this helps.


best regards,
Mike Minihan

roster228
January 16, 2009, 20:05
Should be able to tear down and get to the bottom of whatever that will reveal this weekend. You know, thing is you really WANT such rifles to work. Sucks to have to accept the fact that they may simply not ever function as well as you would like. Like you say, a good cleaning is sometimes everything. The bit about the pencil eraser makes me shake my head. Such things dont surprise me though.

Next step, if that is the eventual outcome is to go with a production scout design. I see by the posts on the scout thread that Savage is supposed to be back in the scout business.

FP1201
January 17, 2009, 13:14
Originally posted by bykerhd
The reason why there MAY be some differences from one rifle to another.....
(the image is actually Pakistan)

That looks just like the inside of the Remington plant. :p

roster228
January 20, 2009, 11:37
Well, tore her down as far as I could. Discovered that my bolt tool is broken, so I couldnt get the bolt completely apart. I didnt find a thing, which to my thinking means I havent accomplished anything yet. Nothing was really dirty. No pencil erasers in place of the extractor spring, etc. Ill try another shooting session in the next day or so and see if its still acting up.

One thing I did determine was that the mojo will not work. It doesnt have the range of adjustment needed. So the original rear sight is now back in place.

roster228
January 21, 2009, 18:21
Well, shit.

Yes "well, crap" is more pc but really doesnt convey the point.

Failure to extract, every single round. Not really sure beyond a new extrator spring so I will try that first.

Opie
January 22, 2009, 02:33
I had one of the Gibbs 7.62 carbines....it shot pretty well, and I didn't have any issues with it. Traded it to a bud along with some other stuff for my first FAL.

roster228
January 23, 2009, 15:55
Im not giving up on it just yet. It will be neat to have if I can get it reliable, well see.

mitchellh
January 23, 2009, 22:02
Originally posted by roster228

Actually the S&K mounts were what I was looking at. Everything I have been able to find online has tended to suggest they perform well on some Ishapor Rifles and not so well on others.

I decided to try the mojo first, see how that goes.

I just did an install S&K Mount on an No1MKIII, it was a PITA. I haven't tested the rifle yet, so I can't give you a range report.

S&K from first fitting;

I had many concerns. Here's an image of the rear nut, that sits in the charger bridge. It's only finger tight, as I didn't want to force it together.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/561/l1030762edited1dv4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Another;

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1081/l1030764edited1le5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And the front is being pulled up;

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/8703/l1030765edited1jh6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


The gap around the receiver ring;

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/7498/l1030761edited1tc8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I spoke with Brian @ S&K Mounts. I forwarded the same pictures in this thread and he agreed the wedge nut in pictures would be a problem. The receiver ring is normal though,He suggested a fix for the wedge nut; 1. drill the mount hole with an 17/64th bit, or 2. file the end of the wedge nut off until I get a more desired fit.


I put Brianís advice into practice last weekend. Here is the before photograph of the wedge nut in a caliper.

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/7979/l1030768edited1cc1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It measured .64, so I decided to remove .01 at a time and kept checking the fit. Once I felt I'd I removed enough material, but still had a good tight fit, the wedge nut measured .62.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2454/l1030770xl6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4509/l1030771edited1ps4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/648/l1030775edited1vj1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

After I tightened up the wedge nut, I believe I could have left a little bit more material on the nut, Iím sure this will let me know when I test fire. All I used to work the wedge nut over was a standard b@st@rd file. Fortunately, this was the easy part.

Inletting the stock for the front ring was a PITA. Much like fitting recoil pads, I kept test fitting the stock to ensure I didnít remove too much material. I started by drilling out a hole (not to deep) where the bottom of the ring would sit. I then placed the ring in the stock and removed enough wood for the ring to sit flush with the groove forward of it.
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5139/l1030772edited1lb4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9457/l1030773em3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Tools I used were; a standard flat head screw driver, a wood chisel and I finally had to break out the dremil tool. Once the ring was flush, I placed it back on the rifle, and started removing more wood slowly, test fitting often. I ended up having to remove a lot more wood deeper in the stock than I expected. It took me a good two plus hours to finally get stock to come back together.

I havenít filed on the rear of the mount yet, to allow the removal of the bolt, but that should be fairly easy.

Here are some pictures. The cheek piece hasnít been mounted because itís the right hand model from Numrich. Iíll have to modify it because Iím a lefty.

This is a J.UNERTL 4X Scope, low Weaver brand scope rings. I could probably go with extra low rings if I choose, as thereís plenty of bolt clearance.

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/2976/l1030777edited1lv4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/8425/l1030778edited1zk2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3236/l1030779edited1jo1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5470/l1030780edited1pg1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Here a different scope mounted; Weaver K1

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5038/l1030782edited1lh2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7941/l1030783edited1qk4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8972/l1030784edited1zr1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

roster228
January 24, 2009, 15:24
Lots of work but it looks like your good to go now. I am no Enfield expert but Ive never seen a cocking piece like that one, its sort of like a type 1 but then again not really.

I hadnt said this earlier but I had scoped an Enfield in the past and the results were so bad I had not even considered an over-action mount for this rifle. That and the fact that I was sort of interested in the scout mount idea, which if I can cure the function problems is how I will have to go at this point. The rounds fired at last session (in between knocking out the cases with a rod) were way high and there was no more adjustment at the rear. I could always try another, taller front I guess.

Im about to name this rifle the Wallet Leech.

Opie
January 26, 2009, 01:38
A couple of questions regarding the mounting of that mount Mitch:

1) Did you make the cheekpiece or did you order that from somewhere? I would like to get one for my Enfield.

2) Would the #4 Scope mount be another option to put on a #1 Mk3? Will it even fit on the Reciever at all, or are they totally different dimension-wise?

Seeing your pics on your project really got me to thinking about scoping my #1....but I would rather put a #4 mount on it if it will fit, and stick a Weaver scope or find a fixed 4X scope on it. Is this doable, or should I not bother with it? Thanks!

-OPIE-

mitchellh
January 26, 2009, 07:05
Originally posted by Opie
A couple of questions regarding the mounting of that mount Mitch:

1) Did you make the cheekpiece or did you order that from somewhere? I would like to get one for my Enfield.

2) Would the #4 Scope mount be another option to put on a #1 Mk3? Will it even fit on the Reciever at all, or are they totally different dimension-wise?

Seeing your pics on your project really got me to thinking about scoping my #1....but I would rather put a #4 mount on it if it will fit, and stick a Weaver scope or find a fixed 4X scope on it. Is this doable, or should I not bother with it? Thanks!

-OPIE-

Opie,

The cheek piece came from Gun Part Corp.

http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=1085330&chrSuperSKU=&MC=

It does require fitting.

NO, the No #4 mount in a totally different mount that uses the rear site base on the rifle, where the No 3 uses the charger bridge.

Here a pics of the No #4 set up with an ATI mount.

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/8682/l1030789edited1ao0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9282/l1030791edited1mt5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


These are the Hex screws you screw in to the Mount, through the rear site base. I have seeen where others have opted to replace these with a bolt that goes all the way through and secure with a nut
Left side
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/6861/l1030790edited1fg5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Rightside
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/5280/l1030792edited1yi2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And these two holes forward of the charger bridge, are where the two set screws go.

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/9929/l1030793edited1xp1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



Good luck

Opie
January 26, 2009, 20:47
I was actually thinking on perhaps using a #4 (T) type mount....is this the type of mount that you were talking about? From what I have seen of the (T) type mounts, they look like they bolt on the side of the reciever and perhaps a lower mount.

Thanks for the info!

mitchellh
January 27, 2009, 08:09
Sorry for the Hijack roster228.

Opie,

I do not know if a No4 (T) mount would work. In reading over on Gunboards.com, a few of the Enfiled Gurus have indicated that it's very complicated when mounting the pads to the receiver of a No4. That's why there aren't many aftermarket No4 sniper rifles out there, unlike the Mosin sniper builds. Thus, I think it would be harder on a No1 MkIII.

But, it probably can be done.

Someones got to go first you know....

roster228
January 27, 2009, 10:29
Hell Hi-jack away! This is interesting stuff.

Opie
January 27, 2009, 13:22
Originally posted by mitchellh
Sorry for the Hijack roster228.

Opie,

I do not know if a No4 (T) mount would work. In reading over on Gunboards.com, a few of the Enfiled Gurus have indicated that it's very complicated when mounting the pads to the receiver of a No4. That's why there aren't many aftermarket No4 sniper rifles out there, unlike the Mosin sniper builds. Thus, I think it would be harder on a No1 MkIII.

But, it probably can be done.

Someones got to go first you know....

I hadn't thought of the pads....but since the idea is in its infancy yet I was wondering if the recievers were dimensionally close enough to give it a try. Just at a glance they look to be.

kayakpirate
February 20, 2009, 19:42
I had the Quest Extreme something or other,had a nickel finish,plastic,monte carlo stock.Had high hopes,but pulled a tendon in my hand trying to get it to extract suplus 7.62 ammo.The grouping looked like I was trying to pattern buckshot at 50 yards.Every round locked the action up.The "scope mount" was a total joke,had some pressure lock allen screw to hold the scope mount(with a Tasco 3x9 rubber armored scope), in place.The 7.62 recoil knocked it loose no matter how tight you torqued it down.A total range disaster,glad I got to test it out before I got too cozy with it.So I dont know about the model I had, except that from a hit or miss standpoint...it was a definite miss.Traded it off with the ammo, for a brand new Glock 19 with night sights.So everything turned out alright in the end.

Brass Rat
February 21, 2009, 00:43
I have an ATI mount on my son's #5, it is as solid as anything I've ever seen.

kayakpirate
February 21, 2009, 08:28
Not mine.In all fairness to Gibbs,they sent me another scope mount,which was even worse.It was a real source of frustration.Two different, honest to gosh gunsmiths, just shook their heads and asked what I was thinking.Glad I ditched it and wouldnt buy another,nor suggest one to anyone else.Its not like I paid for the thing with defective money.There are ( or were,anyway) much better deals out there.

andresere
November 20, 2014, 07:32
I had one of the Gibbs 7.62 carbines....it shot pretty well, and I didn't have any issues with it. Traded it to a bud along with some other stuff for my first FAL.

Yeah, well maybe she was waiting for me because all I had was problems with it yesterday. This was the first time I have shot it since we traded. Failure to extract, over and over and over. The brass has what looks like a scuffed ring around it, about 1/4" from the cartridge base. Aguila and Federal M-80 ammo. I'm going to try cleaning the chamber (?) and open the bolt up and make sure it's clean. Then go back to the range today. How's the G1 shooting?

fjnida
December 06, 2014, 19:44
I have one and the ejector sping broke on mine too. Got a replacement from numrich and all is fine. It's a sweet little carbine and is a little tack driver.They have great stocks and are finished well.I'm a south paw so never really considered to scope it. Was going to make it a truck gun but it's in to good of shape to beat it up. Think I paid 200 bucks for it.