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Rotor
January 03, 2009, 13:34
We are privileged to have in our midst, sgoodroe, who did time at Century Arms in the late 1990's. He started responding to questions about Century's black poly-meyer finish on VZ-52's in a MP post that Gunplumber started. In an effort to hear more details of the goings on there in the past, I hope he would answer some questions here in the hopes of keeping the talk technical.

I'm as curious as Cabinetman about some of the ways things got done there. Yeah we can all bitch about various Century mis-deeds but I don't think blaming sgoodroe is going keep him willing to talk.

In the other thread we saw that the black poly on some century wood stocks was

Originally posted by sgoodroe
:)Specificly this was what we used, permatex 30 min epoxy mixxed with automotive grade base coat flat black, don't recall the brand but probobly PPG....one thing you have to remember is that ALL the painted stocks were heavily damaged or broken, so the coating only had to cover the repairs. spray on bed line wasn't an option. couldn't be easily do at home, and it wouldn't soak in the way this mixture would, we also cut it with acitone wich made it soak in even beter...also remember these stocks were saturated with cosmoline even after several trips through out "lobster pot" it never all comes out.....

I have some of that finish on an ..... "Ahem" M39 Commando that came from century.

.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/Mosins/M39%20Commando/M39CmndoBolt.jpg

.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/Mosins/M39%20Commando/M39CmndoCard.jpg
.

Here seen under a rifle that escaped the Commando treatment

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/Mosins/M39%20Commando/M39CmndoNSkyLt.jpg

After finding out whats in it, I dare say I will never try to remove it. I can expect what lies underneath would not be pleasant to see.


What I'm dying to know about is the "lobster pot".

sgoodroe, If we keep it down to a dull roar, would you describe some of the "creative" ways that Century would deal with gunsmithing challenges?

JR

kalliste
January 03, 2009, 13:43
Originally posted by Rotor
What I'm dying to know about is the "lobster pot".
JR I'm going to hazard a guess here from the name that they dumped them into boiling water (possibly with detergent of some sort in it) for a time in an effort to get the Cosmoline out. But I may be underestimating them and they actually came up with something even more horrific.

ce
January 03, 2009, 13:44
Give me some men, who are stout hearted men,
Who have been through the Century, and survived.
Tell all you know, if you have pics to show,
For at last illumination has arrived!

For all we never knew, we are counting on you,
Tell all the tales that the dead never speak.
For it is known but to you, and we know it is true,
You alone have been in the belly of the Beast.



Rocketman in Vermont used to work there on the Centurian Project.

He was cool.

Rotor
January 03, 2009, 15:54
Originally posted by sgoodroe
lobster pot was our nick name for our big parts washer, realy big parts washer! could fit about 65 or so GEW '98's in it. used hot water and deturgent and did an excelent job, real hot sweaty, nasty job, so I used it as a punishment for those doing bad quality work....

so what else do inquiring minds want to know?

Well my next question was gong to be about how do you degrease 65 GEW 98 at one time.

Mystery solved.

JR

bykerhd
January 03, 2009, 16:35
from sgoodroeso, does any one want to know about those wonderful MAS .308 convertions? or anything else for that matter?

I think it would have been better if those wonderful MAS .308 conversions had never happened. :uhoh: :wink:

ce
January 03, 2009, 16:38
Yeah, what'dja ya do, just ream out the barrels and stuff a .308 sleeve down in there?

And why did the last FAL receivers get sold in the white? Didja think they got ruined in storage under the monkey cages? Was it the monkey urine that made them all rusty, or did they get the Turbo Bath too?

gunner30
January 03, 2009, 17:05
The M1's...... tell us about the M1's daddy. Did they really try to re weld and true up cut receivers on these things??????

bykerhd
January 03, 2009, 17:30
I heard that those Garand receivers were cast at Ruger's casting facility ? Pinetree ? Or something like that ?
The Century M-1s weren't well thought of by the M-1 "authorities" as I recall.

bykerhd
January 03, 2009, 19:41
7.5 French is being produced in the former Yugoslavia.
It's boxer primed, non-corrosive and reloadable.

Century has been having some stuff produced over there they call HotShot for some reason. Made in Bosnia.
I won't use it anymore as I've had a bunch of pierced primers and other issues with it.

The better ammo is made in Serbia and is sold under the Privi Partizan and Wolf trade names. About any obsolete or oddball caliber you can think of is being produced and then sold at very reasonable prices.

K.O.A.M.
January 03, 2009, 19:58
What can you tell us about the semi Sterling project?

Also, what are a few things that never made it out the door?

bykerhd
January 03, 2009, 23:26
I'm happy to hear the .308 Mosin project never happened.
Larger bore diameter on Mosins. Most take bullets around .311.
Accuracy would have sucked.
Much like the Argentine Mausers that another importer re-chambered to .30-06 some years back. They also needed the .311 bullets.
A handloader might be able to make it shoot. Factory ammo might give minute of barn door accuracy after 100 yards.

garandguy10
January 04, 2009, 00:38
Where you there for the Fal production[L1A1,R1A1 ETC]

gunner30
January 04, 2009, 01:06
For some reason I thought I had read where someone (I thought Century) had tried to re engineer de milled Garand Recievers,a nd they were all out of spec and the guns were shite. I did dig this piece up from Fulton Armory (where I thought I had gotten my orignal thought from) and Clint McKee was not too thrilled with the Century Garands

http://www.fulton-armory.com/CAI-TI.htm

K.O.A.M.
January 04, 2009, 08:23
Were those BM 59's that you made the Garands out of full or semi?

bykerhd
January 04, 2009, 12:16
A couple years after your Century time sgoodroe, I saw a table over at the West Lebanon, NH show with a half dozen Century CETMEs on it.
As I was kind of interested in owning one, I gave them all a good look over.
Wood looked like new. Metal looked very good. No cobby looking welds, etc.
Nice looking CETMEs.

BUT, every one of them had the front sight visibly canted to the right.:sad:
Headspace, etc, no longer interested me as that was the end of my interest right there.
I stopped looking at anymore Century CETMEs after that.

Century has NO quality control. Or certainly didn't at that time.

ggiilliiee
January 04, 2009, 12:52
oh you poor poor man ..hehehe ..


http://community-1.webtv.net/ggiilliiee/BARRELTIMINGTOOL/

might make a nice gift for next christmas .hehe

jdr789
January 04, 2009, 13:48
do you know if the fal raw castings being sold as 20% to 80% are heat treated or not ? thank you for all of the information, jerry.

gunner30
January 04, 2009, 17:21
Thanks for all your insight into the world of Century. Didn't mean to slam you personally about re welded M1's, just asking about something I had heard many years ago, which I now know was wrong. The story you tell about quality standards on the night shift vs the day shift pretty mush says it all anout the Century quality question. And I remember being at a gunshow when the CETME's first started coming out. Picked one up off the table, feltgood. Tried to move the safety, it was binding real bad. Asked my local dealer at the time to order one for me anyway. He said he wouldn't put his name on one of those things, he'd already been burned. My present dealer here in NH said he made the mistake of carrying them, then learning a lot about the HK operating sytem as he got them to work.

bronco_buster
January 04, 2009, 22:37
I want to know what the build quality of the Century Yugo M70AB2 is like. Do you know if those are decent builds? I know, I know...I SAID I KNOW...its an AK...blahbidity blah blah blah. Question is...knowing the inside dope on Century, if you could choose between the Century and a Hungarian FEG, which would you choose? Thanks!

Arby
January 04, 2009, 23:27
Originally posted by sgoodroe

but for what its worth, I realy do think if the dealers selling these rifles had made more of an attempt to bring the quality issues to CIA's attention I can't believe it wouldn't have been delt with....


To address this point: Some of the dealers I knew that sold Century rifles did a lot of business at gunshows. Dissatisfied customers of these dealers can only find the dealers if they chase the gunshows or go to their home towns, which can be a major inconvenience.

I had one local dealer tell me that they wouldn't order from Century. The problem was that customers would come in and want them to order from Century at the prices listed in Shotgun News. When they did so, they usually charged an FFL fee and no other markup. More than once, the customer was highly dissatisfied with the Century product and insisted that the FFL contact Century and make it good. The FFL found itself in the unenviable position of having to be the middle man negotiator between the dissatisfied customer and Century, all the while having been paid only a nominal fee for the transfer. It just wasn't worth it for them. They didn't complain to Century because they didn't want to have a thing to do with Century.

I have a question: Why were so many SARs sold with canted barrels?

I should say that I do appreciate you taking the time to answer some of the questions about Century during the time that you worked for them. I know that I speak for others, too, when I say "Thanks" for the explanations.

BlasterLP
January 06, 2009, 17:29
What is the story behind the 'stair railing' AK's?

Randall
January 06, 2009, 19:14
I for one would like to thank you for your insight into Century.

I've read and heard a lot of crap about Century built rifles for many years. However, for what it's worth; My Century built butthole stocked L1A1 (built on Imbel receiver) has never failed me. Sure, it looked like crap, but I knew that when I bought it. I've spent a lot of $ on that rifle over the years, but all of it was cosmetic rather than functional repairs.

Over the years, I've bought and shot more than my share of C&R's that were Century imports, as well as 1000s of rounds of ammo from them. From the things that I've read, I've always expected to have issues. But, I must admit that I've never had a single issue. I figure that they are either doing a halfway decent job, or I'm the exception that proves the rule. Either way, it's worked for me.

Thanks again.
Randy

JohnnyReb
January 06, 2009, 21:52
sgoodroe,

Thank you for posting all this great info and answering all these questions. This is what makes the fal files so great!

dirtyrice
January 07, 2009, 03:42
I owned a century l1a1 and loved it. I still have a century imported mosin and RC mauser.

Randall
January 07, 2009, 10:13
This question may have already been asked of sgoodroe, but in case it hasn't, what was the deal with the unibrow FAL receivers? How did that all come about?

sgoodroe
January 07, 2009, 12:56
Originally posted by BlasterLP
What is the story behind the 'stair railing' AK's?

You can think of this as my own personal ATF nightmare. And no century doesn't use stair rails to build thier AK's, but we'll get to that later.......

About 3 years before I went to work at CIA, I picked up 3 AK parts kits at a gun show. After I worked at Century for about 2 years I took advantage of what was the best benifet of working there.....we could use the shop after hours to build or work on our own guns...Pretty cool huh? Well at the time I couldn't aford to go out and buy recievers to build up my parts kits. So, I ended up poking around in the scrap metal bin and found 3 feet of square tubing that had been left over after the new stairs were built for the tech dept. messinine. Ended up milling my recievers out of that...No big deal every one there new it, and by the way they functioned perfectly! Fired 30K rounds through the first one alone!

Anyway, to make a long story short, 3 years later one I passed over a guy on my crew that was up for a promotion because he was WAY to hot tempered to be put in a position of authority.I figured he'd end up shooting somebody sooner or later.....Anyway he got all pissed of and told the ATF I was building automatic weapons at home out of de-milled parts (I guess anyway, still not sure). But that was it, ATF raided my house, came to my work pulled me out side for questioning, but didn't arest me though.....To Century's credit they did some how manage to keep this all under wraps and out of the local news, after all this is a small town and every body knows every body....

The investigation took about a week and out of my 75 or so fire arms the only ones that were of any intrest were the stair railing AK's, not illeagal in any way, aparently there was a loop hole in the gun laws about building your own recievers or something? Don't remember exactly. But I was going to have to go to court to prove I had hogged them out of scrap iron, rather than bought them. So in the end I was so fed up with the process to get those 3 AK's back I ended up just telling them to "keep the f***ing things!"

In the end I had totaly had it with the gun buisness, and made the decition to leave it all together. I left Century, closed my little gunsmithing shop and almost forgot about how much I loved building guns over the last 8 years...So my thanks to all of you for having this web site, and reminding me of how much a part of my life guns are (were? are? what ever).

:smile:

lima
January 07, 2009, 13:47
sgoodroe - This is a really interesting thread and thank you for sharing all of the info. You have me curious about the Century procedutre used for 'headspacing' the CETME:

the CETME's hmmm, supprise to hear about the head space problems, scince the parts kits were from un-issued rifles, those (and G3's) are kinda tricky to check head space on, roller locked breaches tend to swallow just about anything (even field gauges) if they aren't checked carfully.

From what I know CETME and HK, the headspacing (more correctly bolt gapping) is done with on a new build by pressing the barrel in the trunion with the bolt locked until a feeler guage (inserted through the mag well) gives a gap between the bolt head and carrier of .3 and .5 millimeters (about .012 - .020 Inch). If this space is not correct then the barrel is moved in/out to the correct spot and then drilled/pinned to the trunion.

There is lots of evidence that Century often "ground bolt heads" to give the appearance of this correct gap rather than correcting gap space properly. This gave the illusion of the correct bolt gap on an out of spec and potentially unsafe rifle that actually had less bolt gap than indicated. Was bolt grinding a common remedy for headspacing while you were there?

Thank you

Prototype Services
January 07, 2009, 18:32
I'd like to know more about the Mosin/Nagant projects, maybe in another thread or via email. :bow: :bow: :bow:

Illurian00
January 07, 2009, 18:59
I must say sgoodre, I don't know if you knew what you were getting into signing on here, but you got some sand to have done it :beer:

I hope your not violating any sort of 'proprietary agreement ' with your former employer by revealing the secrets of the Forbidden Temple :skull:

And FWIW, a buddy of mine has a Century CETME,,,bought it at a funshow,,,mag after mag, we blaze away to our hearts' content :D Bought it several years ago,,,don't think he paid three bills for it,,,good deal for the money :love:

sgoodroe
January 07, 2009, 19:09
Originally posted by lima

From what I know CETME and HK, the headspacing (more correctly bolt gapping) is done with on a new build by pressing the barrel in the trunion with the bolt locked until a feeler guage (inserted through the mag well) gives a gap between the bolt head and carrier of .3 and .5 millimeters (about .012 - .020 Inch). If this space is not correct then the barrel is moved in/out to the correct spot and then drilled/pinned to the trunion.

There is lots of evidence that Century often "ground bolt heads" to give the appearance of this correct gap rather than correcting gap space properly. This gave the illusion of the correct bolt gap on an out of spec and potentially unsafe rifle that actually had less bolt gap than indicated. Was bolt grinding a common remedy for headspacing while you were there?

your correct, that is the proper way to headspace an HK or a CETME. there was a worker on the G3 crew, although after this much time I can't remember his name. who was fired for grinding bolt heads. It was by no means company policy, the problem is that it wasn't caught until several thousand had been built and there was no way of tracking which ones had ruined bolt heads.

sgoodroe
January 07, 2009, 19:13
Originally posted by Prototype Services
I'd like to know more about the Mosin/Nagant projects, maybe in another thread or via email. :bow: :bow: :bow:

feel free to e-mail me any questions about the mossin nagants and I'll do the best I can to answer all your questions. But there were no "officialy approoved" M/N projects while I was there. Unless your refuring to the caliber swaps that I worked on?

sgoodroe
January 07, 2009, 19:15
Originally posted by Illurian00


I hope your not violating any sort of 'proprietary agreement ' with your former employer by revealing the secrets of the Forbidden Temple

I don't think so? any way I've been gone so long they probobly forgot my name by now:tongue:

Bentley8
January 07, 2009, 23:42
By the time I got my Century CETME, they weren't using unissued rifle kits as mine had a well-worn and frosted bore. Muzzle had significant wear and the lands in throat area were eroded away. Definitely a used barrel. It shot horribly so I sent it back.

The replacement had crappy welds and the rear sight was too tall and it wasn't centered. The rear sight wasn't from an original kit, it was something Century made or bought. With the front sight unscrewed almost all the way, it was still shooting high and to the side.

Rather than dance with Century again and play the CETME Lotto, I fixed it myself. Dremelled off the rear sight, got an authentic rear sight from a parts kit and MIG welded it on.

With the front sight at a normal height it shoots right on target. The barrel is definitely used on this one, too, but it's not worn out. Oh, and when I received it it was at the very end of headspace/bolt gap. It already had oversized rollers in it. I'll shoot it until bolt gap fails and then pay to have someone put in the new barrel and headspace it.

MyTFAL
January 08, 2009, 10:48
My Mas 49/56 .308 conversion runs good, I use steel case com bloc .308 and it runs like feces through a goose, whats up with that?

sgoodroe
January 08, 2009, 12:26
sounds like you stumbled across the secret to the MAS convertion....steel case ammo.....glad to hear your happy with it.

sgoodroe
January 08, 2009, 12:51
Bentley8, very sorry to hear about your CETME...those must have been very late production rifles. I don't recall the exact figures but I do know that nierly 3/4 of that lot were unissues, wil the remaineder being made up of servicable and "parts only" peices. All I can say is that I would strongly recomend that any one that isn't happy with the rifles they recieve, even if not returned for repair or exchange, let them know there is a problem. Thats the only way changes will be made to the production process.

When I was there, any and all feed back was reviewed by the managers and supervisors at our weekly meeting, then we'd try to work out a solution. The main problem was a total lack of feed back from customers. firearms returned with out an explaination of the problem often went untouched and were resold in a few cases. So to make a long story short, they do take any problems seriously, but they need to know theres a problem to fix it.

ggiilliiee
January 08, 2009, 13:44
strange QC concept ...do i call before the reconstructive facial surgery .......or after .....im confused ...hehehe .god dude ....id just figure the folks "building them" should know if there is a problem .not the guy who buys it ..

isnt that like the Titanic asking the iceberg for help????.hhmmmm

might be a good thing for the tank rounds we used to make ..big sticker on the side of the round .......
if the round doesnt go BOOM ...call 1-800-oh-shit-imdead .......give it a rest ....

Bentley8
January 08, 2009, 16:05
One other question, sgoodroe:

I've seen a lot of CAI imported MAS 36's with counterbored muzzles. The bores are typically VG to EXC and the rifles don't show a lot of wear.

Why would Century counterbore them?

Ricketts
January 08, 2009, 16:31
Originally posted by sgoodroe


I don't think so? any way I've been gone so long they probobly forgot my name by now:tongue:

I know any non-compete or non-disclosure agreements I signed were void 5 years after my last appearance as an 'employee'.

Neat thread BTW. THANKS for sharing.

sgoodroe
January 08, 2009, 17:08
Originally posted by Bentley8
One other question, sgoodroe:

I've seen a lot of CAI imported MAS 36's with counterbored muzzles. The bores are typically VG to EXC and the rifles don't show a lot of wear.

Why would Century counterbore them?

most likely they were done before century got them to compensate for cleaning rod damage. I can't imagine any reason for CIA to do it in house. the MAS's with the .308 conversions though had the barrels counter bored at the chamber end to bleed of excess presure (not my idea, don't blame me)

gunplumber
January 08, 2009, 19:58
Originally posted by sgoodroe
lobster pot was our nick name for our big parts washer, realy big parts washer! could fit about 65 or so GEW '98's in it. used hot water and deturgent and did an excelent job, real hot sweaty, nasty job,so I used it as a punishment for those doing bad quality work....

so what else do inquiring minds want to know?

Yeah - Uhh . .. how is it possible for the entire staff of angry beavers to working the same lobster pot at the same time? Or perhaps, maybe if you can define "bad quality" so we can differentiate it from "normal CAI quality".

Or to be even more probing - can you identify for us please the CAI projects that you consider "high quality"?

HankC
January 08, 2009, 20:05
Originally posted by sgoodroe


your correct, that is the proper way to headspace an HK or a CETME. there was a worker on the G3 crew, although after this much time I can't remember his name. who was fired for grinding bolt heads. It was by no means company policy, the problem is that it wasn't caught until several thousand had been built and there was no way of tracking which ones had ruined bolt heads.
I heard that Century did not even re-press the barrels to set the bolt gap, instead they just welded the barrel/trunnion assemblies into receivers. True? Obviously, on the new ones with US barrrels, they will have to repress the barrels. Also heard that Century CETMEs and/or G3s use US floor plates and followers as 922 parts. True?

sgoodroe
January 08, 2009, 20:28
here we go again about quality, geezzzzzzusssss don't you get board???

ok, lets talk about QC steps taken at CIA while I was there, shall we?

#1 each employee is personaly responsable for what they built, your QC# is stamped on every thing you work on...my number was 2

#2 employees work on a 3 strike system, screw up 3 times? say good bye

#3supervisors are to do random spot checks for quality ,problem here is that bad workers hide problem guns on the bottom of the pile from time to time.

#4 every gun is test fired, cleaned and QC checked before going to the warehouse

problems with this system????? yup, a few.

#1 rapid turn over of the help, some people ended up working on the line before they were fully trained.

#2 shere volume of work load in time alowed, understaffed, under paid, generaly bad attitude of at least 25% of the crew 100% of the time!

#3 total lack of an idependent QC dept. on a close knit crew some one might not want to get thier buddy in trouble for doing bad work.

but heres what it boils down to, its easy for any one who feels like they could do better to say that CIA's guns all suck. But heres the deal lets say you have 20 people working on the floor that have to produce 30,000 rifles in 3 months, and oh yah, at the same time train 15 new people....let me ask you "master gunsmiths", used to building 5 guns a week, how would your quality be if now you have to build 150 per day?

sgoodroe
January 08, 2009, 20:33
Originally posted by HankC

I heard that Century did not even re-press the barrels to set the bolt gap, instead they just welded the barrel/trunnion assemblies into receivers. True? Obviously, on the new ones with US barrrels, they will have to repress the barrels. Also heard that Century CETMEs and/or G3s use US floor plates and followers as 922 parts. True?

while I was there, we wern't pressing any G3 or CETME barrels, period. the head spacing was set by matching bolts with barreled trunions prior to welding, then the head space was verified prior to final assembly. not sure about the floor plates and folowers, not when I was there, though there was talk of it. at that time we were only rebuilding mags with US parts on some of the AK's

phillip
January 08, 2009, 20:39
Originally posted by gunplumber


Yeah - Uhh . .. how is it possible for the entire staff of angry beavers to working the same lobster pot at the same time? Or perhaps, maybe if you can define "bad quality" so we can differentiate it from "normal CAI quality".

Or to be even more probing - can you identify for us please the CAI projects that you consider "high quality"?


Great. Your going to run another person off. This thread was going so well before you stuck that big Eddie Munster head of yours in here. Don't you have some poetry to read or some shit? Go away and let the grown ups talk would ya?

Bentley8
January 08, 2009, 20:43
I should have done my research before asking. Century did nothing improper with the MAS 36's. Turns out that Century did not counterbore them, the French did, as a means to help them use grenade launchers. From a gunboards.com thread regarding counterboring, member "Kelt", from France, responds:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpers Ferry Arsenal
It was done later in the gun's service life to restore accuracy after the crown sustained damage or severe wear. It done right, it can improve the gun's performance. Trick is, finding one that was done right.

Wrong !

A Mas 36 rifle with a damaged barrel tip or a worn out crown was systematically returned to the Arsenal for barrel replacement.

All Mas 36 counterbored barrels were factory built that way, originally intended for the rifles to be used for grenade launching (Mas 36 LG48) it was extended to the whole production, so a standard rifle could be transformed into a dedicated grenade launcher by only swapping parts.
These counterbored barrels have a large G stamped on the left side ahead of the front sight, they are found on all Mas 36 rifles built after 1948 starting with the Q serie and can also be found on earlier production rifles rebarreled in the 60's.

The barrels of the FSA Mas 49 rifles have a samilar counterboring.

The Mas 49-56 rifles barrels don't have that counterboring, only a very large conical crown, the inside of the flash hider providing a similar gas expansion effect as the counterboring on the Mas 36 and 49 rifles.

The counterboring doesn't affect the rifles accuracy.

Originally posted by sgoodroe


most likely they were done before century got them to compensate for cleaning rod damage. I can't imagine any reason for CIA to do it in house. the MAS's with the .308 conversions though had the barrels counter bored at the chamber end to bleed of excess presure (not my idea, don't blame me)

sgoodroe
January 08, 2009, 20:43
Originally posted by gunplumber
.
Or to be even more probing - can you identify for us please the CAI projects that you consider "high quality"?

well, define high quality? the L1A1 was considered the "flag ship" offering. And from what I've heard every one is happy with them (except you of course).

the SAR's were a practicly trouble free project, except for the few that made it out the door with kicked off front sights aperently.

the first 5000 or so CETMEs were excelent

if I think of more I'll add them later........

gunplumber
January 08, 2009, 21:03
Originally posted by phillip



Great. Your going to run another person off. This thread was going so well before you stuck that big Eddie Munster head of yours in here. Don't you have some poetry to read or some shit? Go away and let the grown ups talk would ya?

Pluck Yew, Phillis. You can gush beatitudes all day long - I'm the one constantly getting calls to fix all these "high-quality flagship" guns.


And from what I've heard every one is happy with them.

I tried repeating that with a straight face, but I just couldn't . .. .

Bentley8
January 08, 2009, 21:08
sgoodroe:

Yeah, I think the rifle I got was right before they stopped offering them, so it was probably built with 'bottom of the barrel' components. I got this rifle in November 2003.

It's a fine shooter now, I'm not upset about it. It was just disappointing. The price was right for the time and a lot cheaper than they are going for now.

I guess the reason I didn't complain to Century directly was that the perception I was getting from internet forums was that this was typical quality for the time and that you would get a replacement with other problems.

Looking back on it, I think that was a misperception. I only saw the problem rifles, 'cause those were the ones that people were posting on the forums about. I can't really remember anyone posting about the perfect one they just got, because if it was good to go, they were at the range with it and not going online to see about getting it fixed.

The other problem was that I was paying to ship the old one back and paying shipping for the replacement rifle. I just didn't want to keep dropping $30-40 at a time to get a rifle that may or may not have a problem. I suppose I should have kept sending them back until I got one that I liked, but if they were scraping the bottom of the barrel for parts at the time, I don't know how long it would have taken, if ever.

Sure wish I had jumped on the CETME bandwagon when you were still there, sounds like you were on top of things.

Originally posted by sgoodroe
Bentley8, very sorry to hear about your CETME...those must have been very late production rifles. I don't recall the exact figures but I do know that nierly 3/4 of that lot were unissues, wil the remaineder being made up of servicable and "parts only" peices. All I can say is that I would strongly recomend that any one that isn't happy with the rifles they recieve, even if not returned for repair or exchange, let them know there is a problem. Thats the only way changes will be made to the production process.

When I was there, any and all feed back was reviewed by the managers and supervisors at our weekly meeting, then we'd try to work out a solution. The main problem was a total lack of feed back from customers. firearms returned with out an explaination of the problem often went untouched and were resold in a few cases. So to make a long story short, they do take any problems seriously, but they need to know theres a problem to fix it.

kycrawler
January 08, 2009, 21:16
then why gripe about it ? think of it as job security and drive on

phillip
January 08, 2009, 22:01
"I'm the one constantly getting calls to fix all these "high-quality flagship" guns."


"I tried repeating that with a straight face, but I just couldn't . .. ."




ME, ME, ME, Everyone Look at ME.




If its a problem, Maybe you should get a new profession. The one your in now, Seems to make you a little nutty.



__________________

Ricketts
January 09, 2009, 00:17
Originally posted by gunplumber


I'm the one constantly getting calls to fix all these "high-quality flagship" guns.



You make good money fixing these and are bitching??

garandguy10
January 09, 2009, 00:32
[QUOTE]Originally posted by sgoodroe
[B]here we go again about quality, geezzzzzzusssss don't you get board???

ok, lets talk about QC steps taken at CIA while I was there, shall we?

#1 each employee is personaly responsable for what they built, your QC# is stamped on every thing you work on...my number was #2


Is this a permanent stamp? and if so where may I find it on a CAI L1A1?

garandguy10
January 09, 2009, 00:37
Originally posted by gunplumber


Pluck Yew, Phillis. You can gush beatitudes all day long - I'm the one constantly getting calls to fix all these "high-quality flagship" guns.


And from what I've heard every one is happy with them.

I tried repeating that with a straight face, but I just couldn't . .. .


It hardly takes a Rocket Scientist to build or repair firearms, but it takes a decent man to just do his job and not be a braggert about it.

HankC
January 09, 2009, 08:24
Does Century own the tooling on US 922r compoents they put in their rifles? What do they do with the old toolings when they stop building the kits. I am particularly curious about FAL and CETME trigger parts, hopefully they would make them again if they own the tooling and still have them.

FAL GRUNT
January 09, 2009, 11:17
I'd be interested to hear more about the SAR program and anything on Romanian AK's imported by Century.

What were Century's conditions, specifications, #'s, etc.

Certainly appreciate your input to the Files!

-myers

akajun
January 09, 2009, 11:29
Originally posted by gunplumber


Pluck Yew, Phillis. You can gush beatitudes all day long - I'm the one constantly getting calls to fix all these "high-quality flagship" guns.

[b]

So what your saying is that Century is giving you business in an economic downturn? Id be jumping for joy.
Whats your complaint? Do you own one of these guns? If so call century and have them fix it. If you dont have anything constructive to say, stay out of this thread. Most of us here like Sgoodroe's info.

Sgoodroe thank you for you info, I have often wondered how things worked at Century, especially in the gunroom. Century has made available a lot of firearms in the country that we would likely never see without them.

gunplumber
January 09, 2009, 11:32
Century-built guns have the deserved reputation of being poor-quality hack-jobs. And now we have someone who claims to have been the "head-gunsmith" and in charge of turning out these poor quality hack-jobs.

He's either grossly exaggerating his importance in producing CAI guns, or he's directly responsible for turning out butchered rifles. I invented the phrases "angry beavers" and "drunken monkeys" to describe the work.

Now some of you just finished crucifying Mike Smith for a crappy rifle build - and it is was not nearly as bad as some of the shit I've seen from Century.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/webpictures/thumper.jpg

sgoodroe
January 09, 2009, 12:16
Originally posted by garandguy10
[QUOTE]Originally posted by sgoodroe
[B]

#1 each employee is personaly responsable for what they built, your QC# is stamped on every thing you work on...my number was #2


Is this a permanent stamp? and if so where may I find it on a CAI L1A1?

this would be a 1/8" number stamped into the reciever, and yes its permanent. FAL's, G3s and CETMEs should all be under nieth the front of the reciever directly behind the hand gaurd.

sgoodroe
January 09, 2009, 12:21
Originally posted by HankC
Does Century own the tooling on US 922r compoents they put in their rifles? What do they do with the old toolings when they stop building the kits. I am particularly curious about FAL and CETME trigger parts, hopefully they would make them again if they own the tooling and still have them.

all those components were produced by out side vendors, like pinetree castings (part of Sturm Rugar), and the final milling was done in house. I'm not realy sure in this case who actualy owns the molds.

Falcon
January 09, 2009, 12:25
Do you have any info you can share related to the CAI G3's with imported Indep (Portuguese) receivers?

sgoodroe
January 09, 2009, 12:33
Originally posted by FAL GRUNT
I'd be interested to hear more about the SAR program and anything on Romanian AK's imported by Century.

What were Century's conditions, specifications, #'s, etc.

Certainly appreciate your input to the Files!

-myers

these were all new in the box when recieved and mearly needed a few components swaped out to be legal. the trigger, hammer sear, pistol grip and gas pistons were swaped in house. with a 5 man crew we assemebled on average 450 per shift max. only because that was the maximum number that could be released from the bonded ware house per day. the origanal contract with Romarm was for 30,000 units the first year and 45,000 these second year. these included, 7.62x39's, .223's and 5.45x39's. not included in these figures are the dragonov sniper rifles which were sold as is.

Any details I left out you wanted to know?

sgoodroe
January 09, 2009, 12:34
Originally posted by Falcon
Do you have any info you can share related to the CAI G3's with imported Indep (Portuguese) receivers?

I won't be much help there, that must have been after I left...sorry

hagar
January 09, 2009, 12:36
Originally posted by phillip



Great. Your going to run another person off. This thread was going so well before you stuck that big Eddie Munster head of yours in here. Don't you have some poetry to read or some shit? Go away and let the grown ups talk would ya?

I thought exactly the same thing. Maybe dabtl the law clerk and gp the master baiter can start their own board and leave the rest of us alone.

sgoodroe
January 09, 2009, 12:38
Originally posted by gunplumber
Century-built guns have the deserved reputation of being poor-quality hack-jobs. And now we have someone who claims to have been the "head-gunsmith" and in charge of turning out these poor quality hack-jobs.

He's either grossly exaggerating his importance in producing CAI guns, or he's directly responsible for turning out butchered rifles.


in an attempt to keep this civil, I'll just say that you ARE BADLY missinformed in regaurd to what comes out of Century....and maybe you realy need to get a life?

garandguy10
January 09, 2009, 12:45
Originally posted by sgoodroe


this would be a 1/8" number stamped into the reciever, and yes its permanent. FAL's, G3s and CETMEs should all be under nieth the front of the reciever directly behind the hand gaurd.


I have two CAI L1A1 Fals, one has the letter "K" stamped on the lower breech ring between the handgaurd ring and mag well,and I have a CAI "Made in Canada" LIAI on a Imbel receiver that has no markings between the handguard rings and the mag well.

sgoodroe
January 09, 2009, 12:53
Originally posted by garandguy10



I have two CAI L1A1 Fals, one has the letter "K" stamped on the lower breech ring between the handgaurd ring and mag well,and I have a CAI "Made in Canada" LIAI on a Imbel receiver that has no markings between the handguard rings and the mag well.

QC stamps would only have been done at the St.Albans,VT plant.I don't believe they were done at all at Montreal or Boca. Your "k" would have been done on 1st shift...letters on days numbers at night.

FAL GRUNT
January 09, 2009, 12:56
Can you tell us some about the Montreal and Boca facilities?

Also I would be interested in hearing where much of the surplus (rifles/ammo) was bought from, if you know.

thanks

-myers

phillip
January 09, 2009, 13:02
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gunplumber
[B]
Now some of you just finished crucifying Mike Smith for a crappy rifle build - and it is was not nearly as bad as some of the shit I've seen from Century.

And yet you haven't said one word to your friend about that abomination have you. Your nuttier than a squirrel turd, You know that.



<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4eo0OY8GOuc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4eo0OY8GOuc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

prosecond
January 09, 2009, 13:05
I received a century cetme that was built from new parts. It wouldn't extract. I shippe dit back and they sent me another. It also was built from new parts. The rear sight was installed backwards. I removed it and replaced it and life was good. The rifle is great and was a good deal. I also have a sar 2 and sar 3 I like.

FAL GRUNT
January 09, 2009, 13:10
I have a Century Black Widow that I am working on for a friend of mine. He was having problems with it feeding and extracting. I went through his mags and found 3 that lock up OK out of 7 or 8.

Checked feeding with some dummy cartridges, feeds fine.

Took it to the range and fired 1 round.

It didn't extract. It didn't try to extract. It wouldn't extract when I tried to pull the charging handle back. I wound up tapping, hitting, and pulling back on the charging handle with a polymer hammer until it extracted the round.

I have a feeling when I disassemble it I am NOT going to like what I see inside.

-myers

gunplumber
January 09, 2009, 13:17
Originally posted by sgoodroe


in an attempt to keep this civil, I'll just say that you ARE BADLY missinformed in regaurd to what comes out of Century....and maybe you realy need to get a life?

Either that, or you are full of shit. I think you are full of shit. Either you were just another peon minimum-wage flunky or you were the "head gunsmith" as you claim, and responsible for all the crap your crew put out the door. You can't claim authority while absolving yourself of responsibility.

gunplumber
January 09, 2009, 13:21
Originally posted by phillis
And yet you haven't said one word to your friend about that abomination have you.

phillis, you really must put down that crack pipe before Mommy gets home . (or is it Mommy's crack pipe - that would explain a lot)

Are you really coming around for another bitchslapping? I guess masochism is as masochism does.

FAL GRUNT
January 09, 2009, 13:27
I don't see where berating sgoodroe proves anything about Century's quality. My father was the head of Quality at Ford's Kentucky truck plant making Crew Cabs from 92-97. There are alot of bad cabs out there. If you ever see a crew cab where the back door sticks out or is recessed from the front door... it should have never left the factory. But... the plant had production quota's to meet, and unfortunately for my dad, he was not able to check every cab. Usually 1 in 10 to 1 in 25 if I remember correctly.

So to insult sgoodroe for the total manufacturing deficiencies of a company would be like blaming my father for all of Fords issues. He (being my father or sgoodroe) had neither the manpower, the time, or ability to check every thing made at the plant.

There is and was alot of shit put out by century, we all know that, but this man is giving us a little inside info, and, if we ask the right questions, and LEARN we might better understand just WHY they made the shit they made, and WHY they made the good products they made. Which, by the way, if sgoodroe knows any production numbers, I bet we could compare the # of problem rifles to the # produced and find that they are, in fact, marginal.

-myers

Sig220
January 09, 2009, 13:29
Never fails.........does it................find a interesting thread that I enjoyed reading and all of a sudden a turd floats to the top.

Nobody needed it, nobody wants it.........but there it is stinking up the joint.

Maybe the mods will.............again...........move the turd posts to the basement.

Carry on.

hagar
January 09, 2009, 13:38
I always had respect for gunplumber's work, but he must have a terrible image of himself. After seeing page after page of garbage from him on numerous firearms forums about Hesse, ORF, Century, or whomever he chooses to pick a fight with, I am sick of him. I think he has outlived his usefulness and welcome here on the Files. If his work is so far superior than the rest of the builders, good for him, but I for one do not want to hear about it any more.

Anybody that so freely spewes his opinion so often, and in such detail is borderline manic. Look it up.

gunplumber
January 09, 2009, 13:49
There is and was alot of shit put out by century, we all know that

apparently not - for I have been catching a lot of flack for saying the same thing.

As I said before, I am pleased with the wide range of milsurplus that CAI has brought it. The problem comes when they do anything other than put it in a box. (Actually, they even screw that up - I've received a number of guns broken because those idiots can't even pack a box well).

Heck, I have a 1917 eddystone that is essentially ruined because one of the CAI dumbphucks decided to stamp ".30-06" on the side of the barrel, which is an ATF requirement, using a 10 pound sledgehammer/ He caved in the barrel (and of course, CAI sold it anyway).

I don't see where berating sgoodroe proves anything about Century's quality.

Didn't you read about how he ran crew with a 3-strikes you're out, and the exemplary quality control he oversaw? Why shouldn't I connect the poor results with his claims of leadership in the alleged quality control?


So we have sgoodroe talking about how important he was at the CAI "gunsmithing " department. But then he has the gall to insist that all the defective shit coming out of century during the time he was the "head gunsmith" are in-fact high-quality rifles - and those like me who disagree are just too stupid to tell the difference.

Topbanana
January 09, 2009, 13:50
GP, why are you treating this guy like this? You've made your point that you don't like Century's often times dubious work. But this guy is here answering questions as a *service* to this board.

I for one don't want to see him run off like you tried to run off DSA and others in the past, you are doing no one any favors here.

hagar
January 09, 2009, 13:52
Your problem is you disagree too much, too often, in too much detail, and about too many things. It is starting to say more about you than the things you disagree with..:uhoh:

Topbanana
January 09, 2009, 13:54
Mods, can you split this topic so GP and Bentley can have their off-topic bitchfest all to themselves?

gunplumber
January 09, 2009, 13:58
Originally posted by Topbanana
I for one don't want to see him run off like you tried to run off DSA and others in the past, you are doing no one any favors here.

Oh bite me, loser - still repeating the same tired old lies. Yeah, little old me ran off the huge DSA by simply posting a picture of one of their parts and asking "Why does it say DSA Made in USA and have an Austrian Austrian proof-mark?" So DSA was so distraught by my simple question that they burst into tears and ran away . . . . .

There is a great disparity between the guy's statements and observed reality. My noticing this isn't personal.

Topbanana
January 09, 2009, 14:05
Just my .02, I've said what I felt like I needed to say.

ce
January 09, 2009, 14:08
Gunplumber was in charge of Quality Control at Taco Bell.

If you ate anything there that disagreed with you, send him a stool sample for a complete refund.

gunplumber
January 09, 2009, 14:09
Originally posted by Topbanana
Just my .02, I've said what I felt like I needed to say.

And the fact that its a bald-faced lie says much about you.

HankC
January 09, 2009, 14:09
Come on gunplumber, leave this thread alone. We all know Century has quality problems, but I appreciate sgoodroe willing to give us some inside story of Century. We need to keep this thread going well, so we can invite someone from HESSE next time!

gunplumber
January 09, 2009, 14:24
Originally posted by HankC
We need to keep this thread going well, so we can invite someone from HESSE next time!

What do you mean? Hesse makes the finest rifles on the planet - Robert said so. Well, maybe not as good as George Gouger, or Gary Gucciano.

But then, I remember being flamed for noticing a disparity there as well . ..

Topbanana
January 09, 2009, 14:26
Originally posted by Topbanana
Mods, can you split this topic so GP and Bentley can have their off-topic bitchfest all to themselves?

Arby
January 09, 2009, 16:05
Originally posted by FAL GRUNT
I'd be interested to hear more about the SAR program and anything on Romanian AK's imported by Century.

Originally posted by sgoodroe

these were all new in the box when recieved and mearly needed a few components swaped out to be legal. the trigger, hammer sear, pistol grip and gas pistons were swaped in house. with a 5 man crew we assemebled on average 450 per shift max. only because that was the maximum number that could be released from the bonded ware house per day. the origanal contract with Romarm was for 30,000 units the first year and 45,000 these second year. these included, 7.62x39's, .223's and 5.45x39's.....


Does this mean that the crooked sights and gas cylinders on a lot of the SARs were actually a problem that originated in Romania?

Topbanana
January 09, 2009, 17:30
I'd imagine so, weren't they manufactured by Cugir in Romania as "sporting" rifles then made into mil. style AK's here in this country? The Rommys were the one's who welded the BBL crooked.

sgoodroe
January 09, 2009, 18:14
Originally posted by FAL GRUNT
Can you tell us some about the Montreal and Boca facilities?

Also I would be interested in hearing where much of the surplus (rifles/ammo) was bought from, if you know.

thanks

-myers

montreal was the origanal home office, big ware house, small tech dept. my understanding is that mostly repairs had been done up there, but it sounds like some production may have been done as well. All tech work ended around jan.'96 shortly after I started at CIA in ST.Albans...hence the need for a 2nd shift there.

boca raton was suposed to be a consolidated facility, I had been offer a up leval management job down there, glad I didn't take it! I don't beleve much production ended being done there,if at all it would most likely been a year or less. Something to do with moisture problems in the building I think. I belive there is still a ware house there and the main sales office isn't far away.

What specificly do you want to know about the surplus end of things?

sgoodroe
January 09, 2009, 18:25
Originally posted by gunplumber


Either that, or you are full of shit. I think you are full of shit. Either you were just another peon minimum-wage flunky or you were the "head gunsmith" as you claim, and responsible for all the crap your crew put out the door. You can't claim authority while absolving yourself of responsibility.

well, definetly not full of shit...but maybe a glutten for punishment....OK last time gunplumber....to be specific not only was I the 2nd shift "head gunsmith" my exact job description was night shift manufacturing plant supervisor. basicly top dog there after 5pm. And I'll have you know there were no minumum wage flunkies on my crew, they never even paid minumum wage while I was there! and those flunkies as you put them, lets see my 2 machinists, one came from NASA, the other was a tool and die maker from IBM.....every one else had either a military or law enforcement back ground.....

and oh yah, I do take FULL RESPONCABLITY for every thing done on my watch, good or bad.

sgoodroe
January 09, 2009, 18:37
Originally posted by Arby




Does this mean that the crooked sights and gas cylinders on a lot of the SARs were actually a problem that originated in Romania?

yupper, we didn't touch the sights or gas blocks. at first we thought it was shipping damage, but when we started rejecting 1 out of 50 for the problem, we finaly tracked it down to an OEM issue and it was corrected, but how many made it out the door before it was caught? no way of knowing now.......

sgoodroe
January 09, 2009, 18:43
Originally posted by Topbanana
I'd imagine so, weren't they manufactured by Cugir in Romania as "sporting" rifles then made into mil. style AK's here in this country? The Rommys were the one's who welded the BBL crooked.

Cugir, Romarm...same diff. we got them as semi auto, but basicly the same configuration they left in...just swapped out the maditory parts.

pretty much the same deal with the Maadi AK's, just alot less of them.

FAL GRUNT
January 09, 2009, 18:48
What can you tell us about those Chinese/Maadi abominations that came out from century. The... MISR? I believe? I've heard nothing good about those... but what was the back story. Why were they made?

As far as surplus... I guess I was looking for points of origin for alot of the stuff imported. Did the moison's come straight from Russia or were they bought 3rd party, the mausers, the MAS's, etc.

-myers

garandguy10
January 09, 2009, 18:49
Sgoodroe,I appreciate the information you are providing us out here on the FALFILES and continuing to be a good sport despite one of our members slagging you and CAI. In case you have not guessed the FALFILES member that has been slagging you and CAI has "issues".

sgoodroe
January 09, 2009, 19:13
Originally posted by garandguy10
Sgoodroe,I appreciate the information you are providing us out here on the FALFILES and continuing to be a good sport despite one of our members slagging you and CAI. In case you have not guessed the FALFALES member that has been slagging you and CAI has "issues".

Thanks, I'm actualy enjoying this... and yah I kinda figured that about GP

sgoodroe
January 09, 2009, 19:20
Originally posted by FAL GRUNT
What can you tell us about those Chinese/Maadi abominations that came out from century. The... MISR? I believe? I've heard nothing good about those... but what was the back story. Why were they made?

As far as surplus... I guess I was looking for points of origin for alot of the stuff imported. Did the moison's come straight from Russia or were they bought 3rd party, the mausers, the MAS's, etc.

-myers

the maadi's totaly Egyption origan, the Mak-90's were from China. Honestly don't remember much detail, I'm starting to wish "Rocketmanvt" would hurry up and fix his computer and help fill in the blanks for me.....

I do remember we rebuilt the MAKs had to have the origanal recievers cut off to be imported and we pressed the barrels on to Maadi recievers, kind of a strange hodge podge of parts, but most seemed to function suprisingly well.

The surplus stuff, for the most part, it was never realy mentioned where it all came from. The MAS 36's suposedly were found in a cave in the French Alps. But we never realy talked about where they were imported from. Most of the mausers had been issued, reissued, captured and sent some where else several times. But I believe most of the mosin nagants came from their country of origan.

sgoodroe
January 09, 2009, 19:49
how do I delet a post when I screw upon here?

W.E.G.
January 09, 2009, 20:48
Originally posted by sgoodroe
how do I delet a post when I screw upon here?

First click this.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/trivia/delete2.jpg

Then do this.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/trivia/delete.jpg

sgoodroe
January 09, 2009, 22:02
thank you!

sgoodroe
January 12, 2009, 18:11
no more questions???? wow this thread died quick!:? :cry: :)

FAL GRUNT
January 12, 2009, 18:35
Why the nasty dot matrix banner and the re-serialization of most of the C&R rifles?

-myers

gunplumber
January 12, 2009, 20:58
Originally posted by FAL GRUNT
Why the nasty dot matrix banner and the re-serialization of most of the C&R rifles?

-myers

That unfortunately started a few years ago when ATF changed the import marking requirements to prohibit foreign characters.


So instead of picking which had foreign characters and which the cyrillic and english were the same, they remarked them all.

evan price
January 13, 2009, 03:58
I've always wondered how places like Century get their surplus stuff.
Is there some guys from Century that fly around the world and look for old warehouses? Do military supply sergeants have CAI on speed-dial? Is it a government-level thing?

I notice that often Century, Aim, others all have the same sort of stuff about the same time. Is this because a large lot of stuff is available and they all decided to divide it up?

What happens to the stuff that can't be sold- trash compactor? Employee freebies?

How often were there "surprises" when you worked on the old surplus stuff- I mean, buttstocks with bored-soldier carvings, items left in cleaning kits, etc? Anything notable? Any cool stories or anecdotes?

Deadheadmatt
January 14, 2009, 11:51
sgoodroe,

I have always wondered if the employees at Century got the first pick of the surplus rifles after they were imported? I assumed you guys got to look over each shipment and cull out those rare items as you came across them.

Any all matching K98's with death head stamps or runes that hadn't been peened by the Russians? What was the rarest examples that you saw?


Matt

PS for the gunplumber: What's the status of the FAL's and G3's that have been on your order status page? Are these going to be done before the new president takes office? I have an MP5 kit that I would like built and I was wondering when you would be taking new work?

sgoodroe
January 14, 2009, 12:55
Originally posted by Deadheadmatt
sgoodroe,

I have always wondered if the employees at Century got the first pick of the surplus rifles after they were imported? I assumed you guys got to look over each shipment and cull out those rare items as you came across them.

Any all matching K98's with death head stamps or runes that hadn't been peened by the Russians? What was the rarest examples that you saw?


Matt

PS for the gunplumber: What's the status of the FAL's and G3's that have been on your order status page? Are these going to be done before the new president takes office? I have an MP5 kit that I would like built and I was wondering when you would be taking new work?

well, technicly we didn't have first pick, but it was common practice to pull guns off the pallets to put our names on them. I never saw any # matching rifles there, as the bolts had to be removed prior to transporting, but there may have been some in the bonded ware house.

sgoodroe
January 14, 2009, 13:01
Originally posted by evan price
I've always wondered how places like Century get their surplus stuff.
Is there some guys from Century that fly around the world and look for old warehouses? Do military supply sergeants have CAI on speed-dial? Is it a government-level thing?

I notice that often Century, Aim, others all have the same sort of stuff about the same time. Is this because a large lot of stuff is available and they all decided to divide it up?

What happens to the stuff that can't be sold- trash compactor? Employee freebies?

How often were there "surprises" when you worked on the old surplus stuff- I mean, buttstocks with bored-soldier carvings, items left in cleaning kits, etc? Anything notable? Any cool stories or anecdotes?

CIA does have a buying agent that travels the world, purchasing "lots" dirrect from verious govt. entities, military, police, what ever.......There wern't many employee freebies, only what came out of the scrap metal bin out side, and believe me, dumpster diving was a favorite past time there!. And yah, there was "suprises" all the time, old coins under the butt plate, carvings, notes from home rolled up and stuffed in the cleaning kit, some pretty cool stuff.

ce
January 14, 2009, 17:10
Good work, Harley Dude, you must have done your internship at Taco Bell, because your skillz are quite refined.

I'm sure you'll be able to finish an 80% receiver now.

I'll begin the selection of candidates to test it.

sgoodroe
January 14, 2009, 20:08
Originally posted by Abominog

The early Century L1A1s with thumbhole stocks were stamped on the lower reciever "Made in Canada". It was conventional wisdom for a long time that Century manufactured (or had manufactured) upper receivers in Canada. Lately though it has come to be noted that the earliest receivers are actually Argentinian, followed by Imbels. Did Century ever make or cause to make upper receivers in Canada?

Question two. The "LEO" gray market L1A1s sold in the early 1990s to LEOs are often a mixmaster mismatch of parts. British parts on Indian receivers, Lithgow (Australian) parts on British receivers, Lithgow parts on Lithgow replacement receivers. Where did these come from and WTF is up with the giant mixing grinder that resulted in these?

Thanks!

CIA, realy didn't "make" anything in Canada. There was limited assembly going on in Montreal, apperently, but that was shut down in Dec.'95 and moved to St.Albans, VT...so to answer your question, no the recievers wern't actualy made in Canada, just assembled there....to the best of my knowlage......

As far as the early miss matched L1's, that was done quite a while before I was there, so any input I could give would be only speculation....so this time, best to say nothing.

English Mike
January 14, 2009, 21:32
Trash in the trash.

Take your arguments to DB.

Abominog
January 14, 2009, 21:57
Originally posted by sgoodroe


CIA, realy didn't "make" anything in Canada. There was limited assembly going on in Montreal, apperently, but that was shut down in Dec.'95 and moved to St.Albans, VT...so to answer your question, no the recievers wern't actualy made in Canada, just assembled there....to the best of my knowlage......

As far as the early miss matched L1's, that was done quite a while before I was there, so any input I could give would be only speculation....so this time, best to say nothing.

Thanks! That then would confirm that the early butthole stock L1A1s are all either FMAP or Imbel...both desirable by today's standards!

sgoodroe
January 15, 2009, 08:04
all of the thumbhole L1A1's I've seen had Imbel recivers......but there may have been others that were very early production, but I'm not realy sure of that.

GSP228
January 15, 2009, 08:20
Originally posted by sgoodroe
all of the thumbhole L1A1's I've seen had Imbel recivers......but there may have been others that were very early production, but I'm not realy sure of that. Mine is an early 90's. I contacted CAI with the SN and they advised it was an FMAP.

sgoodroe
January 15, 2009, 12:06
I'd be curious to find out if any others were used then.....Only Imbels were being used by the time I started in Dec.'95

hagar
January 15, 2009, 13:17
I have 3, 2 with 111XXX serial numbers, one says "made by Imbel", the other does not. The other one has a 100XXX serial #, and I am pretty sure it is FMAP.

lawdog
January 16, 2009, 05:11
I bought a Century Cetme and a G-3 clone within about six months of each other, probably in 2002 or thereabout (I can't remember) but there is a bizarre difference in the construction of their receivers that I am hoping you can explain to me.

The Cetme (which definitely came with a used parts kits) has a receiver that looks great. It is well formed, very squared corners on the mag well opening and overall a nice receiver.

The G-3 however - hoo boy! It looks like it was pounded together with a ball peen hammer. There is what appears to be a seam at the front of the mag well. The seam is not smooth and clearly looks like a hammer was used to try to smooth it out. Instead of having four relatively crisp corners to the mag well, the two front corners of the mag well are somewhat rounded, as though the bend was made around a mandrel. It is truly scary looking and I have no idea what the heck happened there.

This might have been after your time there, but do you know what the heck happened with some of those G-3 receivers?

Now the good: Despite the G-3 clone looking like some Pakstani kid beat some pieces of scrap sheet metal together over an anvil, it shoots well. Reliable and accurate. I just wish it didn't look like the front of the mag well was ready to split apart at any time.

And the bad: Despite the Cetme receiver looking good, there has to be something screwed up with the cocking tube alignment as it takes two elephants and 40 Zulus to pull the cocking handle. When I called Century to complain, the nice lady on the phone told me that the serial number I gave her showed that the rifle was out of its warranty period. When I told her that from the time I bought it off of the dealer's shelf and the time of our present conversation it was a period of less than the warranty period that was cited in the enclosure with the rifle, she said the warranty had started ticking when the dealer received it and put it on his shelf. So she said, Century would not fix it.

When I asked "how much would it cost me if I agreed to pay for the repair out of pocket?" she said Century would not work on it under any circumstances, for cash or otherwise, once the warranty had expired.

I asked her if Century would be happier if I shot the rifle and got hurt rather than simply repairing a rifle for cash that they considered out of warranty. She said, "I know it doesn't seem right, but there's nothing I can do to help you." I gave up. I took it to a local gunsmith and he professed to not knowing how to fix it, so it has been sitting collecting dust since that time.

What should I have done? What can be done?

BTW, my Century L1A1 is definitely one of those that turned out well. It was put together on an Imbel rcvr.

gunplumber
January 16, 2009, 11:16
This is a common deficiency of CAI rifles - and since it manifests simply by attempting to cock the rifle (basic function check), it is obvious that the "gunsmith" doing quality control simply didn't give a shit. That he didn't understand enough about the weapon to know why the welding was defective is bad enough, but to pass this crap on to the consumer . . . . well that's why "CAI and "crap" are so often found in the same sentence.

While you can't fix the problem without major surgery, you can work around it (g3) by welding or soldering a washer on the cocking handle extension so the gap between the front of the bolt carrier and the cocking handle extension is .001 -.022. Right now the gap is so large that the caming action of the cocking handle opening does not unlock the rollers. The cetme is harder to fix than the G3 because the bolt carrier sleeves the extension - it needs to be welded up and lathe-turned to get the same gap.

Of course, there are some who would have you believe that this defect in workmanship is a rare event , marring the otherwise stellar reputation of CAI gunsmiths for turning out high quality rifles.

I assert the opposite is true. Finding one that is properly built is the rare event.

Putting them out the door knowing they are defective establishes the corporate character of the company - and as you found out, they sure the hell don't want them back, as it's twice as hard to fix it after the fact.

Rotor
January 16, 2009, 11:42
Lawdog The receiver difference you noticed was because some CIA CETME's were mage with cast stainless receivers and some folded sheet metal. It sounds like your CETME was cast stainless and your CIA G3 was sheet metal.

The front of the mag well is a good place to observe the difference.

JR

kingfish
January 16, 2009, 11:47
sgoodroe, this is an interesting read. Unfortunately some people cant seem to go without throwing s*&t everywhere. But hey, its adds flavor
:wink:

sgoodroe
January 16, 2009, 12:43
lawdog, sorry to hear about the CETME problem and ugly G3. The G3 was deffinetly done after I left, so I never had the opertunity to work on the stamped recievers......

Your CETME should be a fairly easy fix though, either the cocking tube is binding or there is crud in the cocking handle. I fit was me, I'd simply pull it apart, lay every thing out on a table and look at every thing closely, should be fairly easy to tell if something is rubbing or binding.....It sounds like the return procedure must have changed scince I was there, that sucks. At least you called and complained though, thats how things get done...

ggiilliiee
January 16, 2009, 13:08
brings to mind the old saying here ..
If ya go to the gunshow and pick up a Cetme .....and it says Century.....


just Cetme rite back down


.........sorry ..its even in wilkipedia .hehehe ....

NavyOgre
January 19, 2009, 17:12
Just found this recently and finally sat down to read all 140 posts. A few things struck me overwhelmingly...

Back to the VZ-52. Those "bed-liner" unknown rifles are what got me into milsurps in the first place. I HAD to know what they were and more about who used them. They got me wound up at the local gunshop like no previous MN or SMLE had done. I just re-checked my 56's, an AYM and a SHE, Yep, both are CAI marked and show signs of having previously been "Commando" specials. Both are now in original finish and IMHO look great with beautiful stocks. Wish I could tell you how somebody got the finish off, but that's the way I got them.

CETME. My SS cast rifle performs wonderfully, does not bind, is well finished, and you couldn't pry it away from me. Does about 2 1/2 to 3" at 100 yards off the bench. Never been fiddled with by any Master Gunsmith that I know of, and it came straight out of the CAI box to me at the dealer. Maybe it was the fabled "1 in a 1000" but my luck ain't normally that good.

MAS, MN, SKS. I have a few with CAI stamps. Nothing wrong with any of them, everything does what it should and I like them all. I must be delusional or just damn lucky, again.

GunPlumber, Mr. T. Mark Graham, Master Gunsmith, Arizona Response Systems, Thank you for your timely comments. They have proven something of your character and made it very easy for me to NEVER bother with the company you proudly proclaim to represent. Shame, I had heard good things of them in the past.
And Sir, should you wish to publicly castigate ME for expressing my opinion after reading all these posts, feel free to do so here or at GunBoards under the same user name. There is a time and place for all discussions, but petty whining such as you've spewed in unbecoming this format.

SGoodroe, thank you for your time and patience. You have been a gentleman and only answered questions asked, providing us with valuable information. I trust your word and character entirely based on the sum of what I've read. Fully enough to do business with you without question.

As for questions:
1. Were most of the VZ-52 butt plates replaced with plastic due to wear/damage, or were/are they just that scarce? What happened to the worn/damaged ones? Seems like a good place to apply some basic automotive skills to provide a hard to find component.
2. 45/70 in a MN action? Wow, sounds like a great brush gun. Any hints for those of us (less than master) gun smiths that might be interested in trying to roll our own?
3. Garands from BM-59s. I would love to hear more as I want to reverse engineer a .308 "Tanker" Garand to handle M-14 magazines. Would straight conversion of an existing receiver work (scary to think) or better yet a reweld of a BM receiver? Just thoughts, the "Tanker is an old conversion (1960s?) done by a true master, I definitely don't want to mess it up. But, any comments gleaned from your experiences would be appreciated.

Thanks again.

Topbanana
January 19, 2009, 17:42
I wish they would start making something out of the BM59 kits.

sgoodroe
January 20, 2009, 12:39
Originally posted by NavyOgre

1. Were most of the VZ-52 butt plates replaced with plastic due to wear/damage, or were/are they just that scarce? What happened to the worn/damaged ones? Seems like a good place to apply some basic automotive skills to provide a hard to find component.
2. 45/70 in a MN action? Wow, sounds like a great brush gun. Any hints for those of us (less than master) gun smiths that might be interested in trying to roll our own?
3. Garands from BM-59s. I would love to hear more as I want to reverse engineer a .308 "Tanker" Garand to handle M-14 magazines. Would straight conversion of an existing receiver work (scary to think) or better yet a reweld of a BM receiver? Just thoughts, the "Tanker is an old conversion (1960s?) done by a true master, I definitely don't want to mess it up. But, any comments gleaned from your experiences would be appreciated.

Thanks again.

About 1 in 5 of the vz52's came in missing the outer butt plate, so they ended up having the plastic one made scince there are no replacment parts availble from the factory.

.45-70 MN, yup, definetly would have been one hell of a brush gun! Just simply needs a new barrel and a little tweeking to the mag and feed rails to make it work...

BM59 to Garand was acomplished with new recievers and stocks. I've heard of M1's being converted to use M14 mags, but I've never seen one close enough to see how it was done, I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult though. I'd probobly just pull up the schematics on the gun-parts corp. web site and see whats different between the M1 and M14.

ElRon
January 20, 2009, 15:18
Originally posted by ce
Gunplumber was in charge of Quality Control at Taco Bell.

If you ate anything there that disagreed with you, send him a stool sample for a complete refund.

Eat your rice an' beans, suck on a chili dog. No USA stamped Chalupas for you.

ce
January 20, 2009, 16:59
You men eat your dinner, eat your rice and beans.
I eat more tacos any man ever seen.

Cuz I'm a back door man.
The men don't know, but the nalgonas, understand.

lima
January 25, 2009, 18:42
Lawdog - I don't mean to hijack the thread but I was concerned when I read what GP wrote and had to share my 2c:

"While you can't fix the problem without major surgery, you can work around it (g3) by welding or soldering a washer on the cocking handle extension so the gap between the front of the bolt carrier and the cocking handle extension is .001 -.022. Right now the gap is so large that the caming action of the cocking handle opening does not unlock the rollers. The cetme is harder to fix than the G3 because the bolt carrier sleeves the extension - it needs to be welded up and lathe-turned to get the same gap."

This is almost to obvious - before someone leads you to believe your only recourse for your CETME being hard to cock is "major surgery", first check to see if you have a ground bolt head (very bad) and then check for proper bolt gap (headspace).

Zero/out of spec bolt gap would make cocking MUCH harder as you indicate. This can be corrected easily by installing oversized bolt rollers or (with slightly more effort) by pressing/re-pinning the barrel to the correct gap. It would be dangerous for anyone to attempt make a gun simply cock easy without checking bolt gap first - which is the most obvious cause of difficuly cocking and can have major safety implications! In addition to shipping ground bolt heads, I am not confident Century properly checked bolt gap before shipping.

If bolt gap is in spec (preferably in the high end of range for easy cocking), the action is clean and lubed, there are no obstructions/friction in the cocking tube and it's still tough to get proper cocking cam action, check if the bolt carrier length is in spec. I have heard that Century ground the ends on some bolt carriers (not just bolt heads) to fit when cocking tube length was welded a bit short. You may get lucky and have an in-spec cocking tube length but out of spec (short) bolt carrier. Replace with a new unground carrier since using proper in-spec parts to get proper cam action is a better quality fix than monkeying with washers or adding metal on the end of the carrier (or cocking lever assembly) if you have the option.

Remember, the gap/play between the end of the bolt carrier and cocking handle assembly should be about the width of a razor blade. You DO want some gap between these parts so the bolt carrier does not slam closed or rest on the cocking handles assembly/cocking tube.

Some may find fault with checking bolt gap first and making sure your parts are in spec rather than major surgery. It is not my intention to start a flame war, just wanted to share some very obvious things to check. Century fixed symptoms not problems on CETMEs by grinding stuff. It's worth making sure your parts are as in spec as posible, check bolt gap and go from there, new parts are still mostly cheap. Contact robertrtg.com if you are have trouble finding CETME parts.

If the above does not help then you have either binding in the cocking tube or it was was welded too far out creating too much gap for camming action and you will need to add/remove metal accoringly.

perro
January 27, 2009, 21:34
holy cheese!!!

PLEASE dont make me post photos of all the hack jobs that have come out of century arms over the years. i have an entire hard drive folder full of these photos!!!


Sgoodroe, i understand you no longer work for CAI - cool i can dig it, but id like to say a few things about some of the stuff you have posted here


first and foremost - most people dont understand this, but the cetmes made at st albans facility are the best of the best out there ever turned out by century arms. you have that going for you. all of the st albans century made cast stainless cetmes were built off of unissued parts sets (at least every one ive ever examined has been good to go). these guns came out on the market retailing at $800.00, and at one point you guys offered unissued parts sets for around $400.00 way back in the very beginning of the cetme offering. shortly there after the name on the receiver changed from st. albans and thats when quality went down hill FAST. i always try to collect the st albans cetmes cause they are definately a step above the rest. if this was the time you were involved with century arms, i give you props for doing a good job on the st albans cetmes cause they are better than all the rest offered by century.

the majority of the georgia VT marked guns were TRASHED

i gave you props about the st albans cetmes being decent guns - now i get to complain :)

you say that nobody ever contacts century arms to complain - OH BOY!!!!!!
i ran a cetme dedicated forum for years, and my forum sent century a detailed letter explaining what they were doing wrong, and you dont really want to know the reply i got from them.
the guys on my forum were the very first people to EVER catch a ground bolt head. M1 Tanker (one of the co admins there) to be exact is the person who brought this "ground bolt" phenomenon to everyones attention. We wrote letters to century and contacted century MANY MANY times, and the quality got worse after each and every rifle made - definately not better!!! PLEASE dont try to say that nobody called to complain, that is insulting!!!

wanna know what century arms said about ground bolt heads when we questioned them about it?? "Its in the official spanish manuals for the cetme that its OK to do that"
funny that i collected cetme everything for YEARS, and i had every spanish cetme manual known to man. i was involved in the translations of most of the cetme manuals to english, and of course after i told them this information i was still told i was wrong, "its an official spanish armorer practice - thats why they included bastard files with the cetme armorers kits" and other such nonsense.

i went round and round for hours with a gunsmith from century named "steve" many many times until i finally just gave up - it simply wasnt worth my time to try to talk to a brick wall.

if you left while they were still manufacturing cetmes at st albans then you have NO CLUE the crap theyve sent out the door since then!!!! i own a BUNCH of century guns built after st albans, and im here to tell you they are lacking in quality and im ONLY referencing the cetme, and g3s - ill leave the FAL, and the SAR stuff to other folks.

id like to say this

you mention each gun was test fired and cleaned before being sent out the door - MAYBE when they were churning out guns at st albans, but certainly not after that.
if they test fired each gun going out the door there would not be the bad reputation for century quality because the guns wouldnt have left the door to begin with because some guns ive seen wouldnt even chamber and fire 1 round, and forget about cleaning, ive seen clumps of sand inside of cetme receivers.

OK big deal - clumps of sand inside the receiver - that was from sandblasting the guns, but did they have to spray epoxy paint over the tops of the clumps of sand on the inside of the receiver??

i could go on and on about this, but i wont cause i can say the st albans built cetmes are way better than any of the others released by CAI, and you are claiming that you only worked for them at st albans.


BUT i have to say that if you quit during st albans, then you REALLY have NO CLUE how much CRAP has been turned out since then so Gunplumber is justified in saying what he is saying. ive seen SO MUCH crap from century arms it would make your head spin!!! HELL, they cant even get the century published CETME manual correct, they put the magazine into the magwell BACKWARDS!!
http://www.centuryarms.com/manuals/cetme501.pdf

i like Century for ALOT of things!!! for ammo, and C&R stuff they simply cant be beat, but give them a welding stinger and LOOKOUT!!!

my opinions only!!!!

sbw9056
January 28, 2009, 10:12
Originally posted by perro
HELL, they cant even get the century published CETME manual correct, they put the magazine into the magwell BACKWARDS!!
http://www.centuryarms.com/manuals/cetme501.pdf

That's funny right there, I don't care who you are!:rofl:
I don't know how many times I looked at the front of that manual and never noticed .

sgoodroe
January 28, 2009, 12:20
thanks for the input perro, I left CIA about a week before the move to georgia, so I realy don't have any idea whats been going on there the last 8 years or so. as I've said I can only speak for the time I spent there. But it does sadden me to find out what became of the CETMEs, they started out so well. I know the "steve" you must have talked to down there, decent guy, good at what he does, but at the end of the day just another corprate yes man.(I've gota be carefull here, he lives 'bout 8 miles down the road from me:angel: )

USMC 0341
January 28, 2009, 12:28
Originally posted by perro
they put the magazine into the magwell BACKWARDS!!


On the cover of the manual no less... ...wow...

delloro
January 28, 2009, 23:24
Originally posted by ce I eat more tacos any man ever seen.
Cuz I'm a back door man.

uh, the taco is up front. you aren't eating del taco; you are eating del culo. :eek:

Arby
January 29, 2009, 00:12
Originally posted by delloro


uh, the taco is up front. you aren't eating del taco; you are eating del culo. :eek:

Claude is paraphrasing Chester Arthur Burnett. Chester was talking about chicken. Claude is talking about tacos. Chester was the Howlin' Wolf. Claude must be El Lobo.

I, as ever, must be confused. :biggrin:

sgoodroe
February 08, 2009, 17:26
any more questions?:smile:

Abominog
February 08, 2009, 17:42
How many, of any particular version you can think of, were built?

jerrymrc
February 08, 2009, 22:31
Originally posted by sgoodroe
any more questions?:smile:

I do want to thank you for your insight. And while I too have seen some "interesting" things come out of CAI I do own a couple of SAR3's that are very accurate and do not have canted sights.

Please do not be scared of those that seem to feel that they can now unleash there frustrations on you because you used to work for CAI.

I am sure that the ones that try and attack you have never sent these words to CAI itself but are now trying to make up for lost time.

Once again welcome to the fal files and I do hope ya stick around.:whiskey:

sgoodroe
February 09, 2009, 12:23
Originally posted by Abominog
How many, of any particular version you can think of, were built?

well, this would be only my best estimate, scince it has been a while but here goes...

SAR's (on my watch) 30,000 plus
MAK-90's 10,000 or so
Maddi AK's 15-20,000
Maddi/MAK hybrid 1500-2000
L1A1's 15,000 plus
R1A1's and STG58s probobly about 10,000 each
don't remember on the G3's, CETME's and M1's but well over 5,000 each

thanks for the knid words jerrymrc, glad to be here.

tarkassian
February 10, 2009, 01:13
What was the order in which Century used FAL kit parts, if any? STG, L1A1, and assorted metric, etc. Was there a time/order when one was built more than the others?

sgoodroe
February 10, 2009, 12:36
L1s first, then the R1's. at the time the STG's were just starting up only a few token L1s were being built as ordered. but there was about a 6 month over lap with the R1s and STGs.....if that makes any scence.

Tom
February 10, 2009, 21:56
Iím curious about the profit margins on the Sar2 series. I purchased one for $225 from aim surplus and always wondered how much CAI was making off of them. My came with canted sights, a canted gas block and trigger slap. Who was responsible for the out of spec trigger parts. I still liked it for $225.

I also had a STG58 from CAI. Everything was just fine with it once I replaced the horrible stock. Couldnít CAI have found a better us stock.

I also had a gunplumber assembled FAL. It was nice but not perfect and was shipped back with the rear sight sticking out of the box despite the ample packing material that was sent with the parts kit. Also, years later I found the return spring nut was stuck to the return spring tube so bad that the entire return tube had to be replaced. I tried soaking it, heat etc. I think the metacol finish somehow made it too tight. I still liked the rifle and never called to ARS to complain because they were minor issues. Should I duck now?

Iím enjoying the information. Thanks.

Abominog
February 10, 2009, 22:08
I wonder if Century ever considered (or tried) milling the lightening cuts into the Type III receivers?

sgoodroe
February 11, 2009, 12:29
Originally posted by Tom
Iím curious about the profit margins on the Sar2 series. I purchased one for $225 from aim surplus and always wondered how much CAI was making off of them. My came with canted sights, a canted gas block and trigger slap. Who was responsible for the out of spec trigger parts. I still liked it for $225.

I also had a STG58 from CAI. Everything was just fine with it once I replaced the horrible stock. Couldnít CAI have found a better us stock?

I believe the trigger, hammer and sear in the SARs were cast by Pinetree (Ruger) with final milling and grinding done at CIA, at least when I was there. No idea on the profit margine, but I would imagine at least 30% over cost. and yah the STG stocks were kinda cheezy. no idea who made them, they were shipped in unmarked boxxes.

sgoodroe
February 11, 2009, 12:30
Originally posted by Abominog
I wonder if Century ever considered (or tried) milling the lightening cuts into the Type III receivers?

no idea, not a bad idea though

HawaiiFALer
February 21, 2009, 05:09
sgoodroe,

I bought a Century C91 (G3) at the end of the assault weapons law sunset. Mine has the non-military muzzle brake instead of a flash suppressor. The gap measures within spec. The bore is dark with good lands. I had to relieve metal at the bottom of the mag well to allow all mags to work.

I don't find a QC/maker's stamp on the receiver.

Can you give me your comments about this rifle. Are the scope base/mount bumps correct on these receivers? Where were they made and by whom?

It functioned fine. My only complaint is the dark bore.

Thanks for providing information and for answering questions. You're a good sport.

HawaiiFALer :biggrin:

sgoodroe
February 22, 2009, 18:06
the only ones being built while I was there with an integral scope mount were the cast aluminum recievers made by Federal. I'm very suprised to hear your rifle has a "dark" bore, scince they came through chrome lined. But its very possible it may have seen alot of use with corrosive ammo, most of those parts kits came from somewhere in africa and had seen extremly hard use with very little thought of maintnace. the only other thing I can think of is that the barrel may have been an un-lined replacment that spent way too much time in the blueing tank. glad to hear your happy with the rifle other than that though:smile:

HawaiiFALer
February 23, 2009, 20:19
Originally posted by sgoodroe
the only ones being built while I was there with an integral scope mount were the cast aluminum recievers made by Federal. I'm very suprised to hear your rifle has a "dark" bore, scince they came through chrome lined. But its very possible it may have seen alot of use with corrosive ammo, most of those parts kits came from somewhere in africa and had seen extremly hard use with very little thought of maintnace. the only other thing I can think of is that the barrel may have been an un-lined replacment that spent way too much time in the blueing tank. glad to hear your happy with the rifle other than that though:smile:
Yes, I am happy with it. The price was especially good I guess because the sunset of the assault weapons ban meant that real flash suppressors could be used, instead of the aftermarket muzzle brake. So it seems that the "old" product was sorta dumped.

My receiver is the stamped steel version. Do you know who made them? What I mean by the "scope base/mount bumps" is the stamped nubs/teats/bumps or any other name of the four upraised locations for holding/gripping the HK scope clamping base. There is/was an aftermarket Weaver/Picatinny style base that gripped these four spots by setscrews. Do you recognize this base, or have any opinion of it?

How were the muzzle brakes put on the barrels? Are they using the old threads and then pinned? And if so, where is the pin location? I can see tack welds on my muzzle brake to barrel junction. So maybe mine is not pinned?

Do the wood CETME buttstocks fit up well to the C91/H&K ? Can military stocks be swapped back on the rifle? :) :?

BTW, how did those aluminum receivers hold up? :?

shootist
February 24, 2009, 09:08
sgoodroe,

I would like to take this oppertunity to thank you. I've had two Century FALs since 2001 and both are fine. They always have been reliable and accurrate. Most surprising of all, the first is built on the dreaded Hesse FAL-H receiver. But it worked so good thats why I bought the second one, which is built on the second worst receiver the "unibrow". And contrary to the BS you hear both are headspaced correctly.

Its been quite awhile since I've been on this board so please don't get pissed if you have already answered this question. Do you know who actually manufactured the Century unibrow receiver?

Additiionally, by your own account Century built 30,000+ of these rifles in different patterns. I believe most are probably just fine like mine. So don't take the critisim of some private parts assemblers seriously.

Thats right, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Alot of these so called "gunsmiths" are nothing more than parts assemblers. They want to take the bests parts for an easy assembly and move on. Nothing wrong with that, we would all like to make a decent profit in as little time as possible, but it doesn't make you a gun smith, and it certainly doesn't make you an expert.

I remember one who may still advertise here with a "Century upgrade" but only if your gun already worked. He didn't want any guns that were non-functional (of course that might require some actual gunsmithing). The question nobody could answer for me is: If I already have a gun thats working why would I pay for shipping and work I don't need?

I have seen alot of FALs that are pretttier than mine at the range but none that work better. Some are more accurate and some are not, that may be just shooter ability. I've seen some of these other guns jam including DSA, and they have the actual styer Blueprints.

It always been my feeling that when people like Gun Assembler, oh I'm sorry, Gun Plummber say Century guns are garbage, it because you can get one for less than half the price of their parts kit assembled gun.


Most like myself, bought these guns before we even knew about this site on the web, Gun Plumber and the rest. I thought only FN guns were in this country and they were collectors items way out of my price range. You can imagine how pleased I was to find an actual FN pattern gun for slightly less than $500 that I could use as a shooter.

Thanks again and sorry for the long post.

sgoodroe
February 24, 2009, 12:24
Originally posted by HawaiiFALer

Yes, I am happy with it. The price was especially good I guess because the sunset of the assault weapons ban meant that real flash suppressors could be used, instead of the aftermarket muzzle brake. So it seems that the "old" product was sorta dumped.

My receiver is the stamped steel version. Do you know who made them? What I mean by the "scope base/mount bumps" is the stamped nubs/teats/bumps or any other name of the four upraised locations for holding/gripping the HK scope clamping base. There is/was an aftermarket Weaver/Picatinny style base that gripped these four spots by setscrews. Do you recognize this base, or have any opinion of it?

How were the muzzle brakes put on the barrels? Are they using the old threads and then pinned? And if so, where is the pin location? I can see tack welds on my muzzle brake to barrel junction. So maybe mine is not pinned?

Do the wood CETME buttstocks fit up well to the C91/H&K ? Can military stocks be swapped back on the rifle? :) :?

BTW, how did those aluminum receivers hold up? :?

sounds like your rifle was made long after I left, I'm realy not firmiliar enough with that configuation to honestly answer your questions on it. But I'll do the best I can. While I was there the flash hiders where held on with the origanal threads and pinned underneith about a 1/4 of an inch from the back of the flash hider.
not sure about swapping in a CETME stock, I've never tried it so I'm not sure how close they would be dimentionaly, I know they are pretty close, but I'm not sure if they are a direct fit. The origanal military stocks will fit, but scince I've never seen that particual configuration, I'm not sure about the legality of it.
The cast aluminum recievers hold up ok, but there was multiple production problems with them, stemming from the fact they were intended by the manufaturer as kind of a "do-it-yourself" at home kit, not realy for mass production. so keeping the tolerances where they needed to be, day after day, month after month was a real nightmare.:cry:

sgoodroe
February 24, 2009, 12:44
shootist, thanks for your input:smile: I'm glad to see the positive feed back far out ways the negative. as for the unmarked unibrow recievers those were from an early prototype batch made by Hesse, they wen't suposed to have gone into full production as as such wern't properly marked (as far as I can recall, bear in mind its been about 8 years).

We do have to be carefull about useing the term "gunsmith" though. even Century never refured to thier assemblers as gunsmiths. While I was there there was only 3 fully trained, profetional 'smiths in the place. Me, my boss, and the day shift R and D guy, every one else simply was called a technition or an assembler, depending on what they did.

It would be nice if Century would give tours so people could see what goes on there, it would never happen for security reasons, but if people could see how things are done and espectialy WHY, I think every body would have a much deeper appreciation for thier work.:smile:

shootist
February 24, 2009, 20:11
sgoodroe,

My Cenurty receivered gun is much better than the Hesse marked gun but both work fine. The century marked unibrow is actually more accurate.

As far as the term "gunsmith" goes I was actually refering to Century's competition which appear to be nothing more than parts assemblers.

Thanks for the answer about the manufactuer. My dealer received my gun in a box from century markerked imbel, however, both of us never heard about an Imbel unibrow and although I know There are examples of an FN unibrow (as seen on this web site), it was far too outrageous to think that FN had anything to do with those receivers.

shootist
February 26, 2009, 18:44
sgoodroe,

After your last post I checked my guns again and its hard to believe that both receivers came from the same manufacturer.

My first gun is marked Hesse FAL-H 7.62mm serial number 010XXX. Its clearly a metric receiver that was obviously ground for an inch charging handle. It has the proper widow's peak feed ramps., and is cut for metric mags.

My other gun is built on a Century R1A1 receiver, serial number 01-01XXX, that is clearly an inch receiver. it was properly cast for the inch charging handle, has the appropriate slots for the inch top cover (which it came with and fits perfectly) and of course is cut for the inch magazines that fit and function fine. This one is marked R1A1 Sporter 308 cal. The only wierdness is the uni-brow feed ramp.

Both guns were built on Austrailian kits, one from 66 the other from 67. Additionally, the radius for the pivot pin on the Century receiver is perfect the one on the Hesse is not. However, both guns work with surplus and 150 grain commercial 308 ammo (the only commericial weight ammo I've tried).

Thanks again for your info.

sgoodroe
February 27, 2009, 12:35
glad I could help. only wish I could offer more info on the later production stuff.

JoeLad
February 27, 2009, 17:00
Some of Century's handiwork. This barrel came off my Sporter.

Was this peening like this considered the norm at Century?

I took the barrel off to have the receiver engraved, and replaced it with an unmolested L1A1 barrel from a kit when it wouldn't come close to timing correctly.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/joelad/DSCN0134.jpg

Topbanana
February 27, 2009, 17:50
At least they refinished it! :P

sgoodroe
February 27, 2009, 19:51
Originally posted by JoeLad
Some of Century's handiwork. This barrel came off my Sporter.

Was this peening like this considered the norm at Century?

I could tell you who's bright idea that was, but it probobly wouldn't make you feel better about it. It wasn't offical policy to peen the barrels to correct timing, and the practice had stopped by the time I took over the night shift. But, what happened ocationaly, was a few individuals on the crew who were too lazy to walk the 10 feet from the breaching fixture to the parts shelf to pick out the proper size breaching washers. thier solution was to use what ever they had on hand and peen the barrels to make up the difference. not company policy, but the suporvisors that alowed in to happen (in my opinion) should have been shot. its exactly that kind of sloppy work that earned CIA the reputation that they have.

sgoodroe
October 18, 2012, 11:33
I've been gone from the website for a while, but now I'm back to stay. any new questions about Century?

Abominog
October 18, 2012, 12:09
Why do some have "Made in Canada" on the upper receiver and others on the lower?

bykerhd
October 18, 2012, 17:02
Good to see you back sgoodroe.
Are you still here in Kali North, or have you migrated elsewhere, anywhere, to seek your fortune ?

I've met a few more ex-Century folks since you left last time.
One an admitted, but still surprised victim of the three strikes and out policy as he had been there quite a while.
One who is now an employee of a local gunshop.
One production and also QC guy that was a bit too slow, conscientious ?
And a gunsmith who worked for a Century sub-contractor on one of their more technical builds.

The plus is that I hear a fair number of Century "war stories".
The minus is that I hear a fair number of Century "war stories".

I had thought about applying up there for some part-time work just for "grins" and curiosity.
I'm afraid after becoming more acquainted with how the place works I've shelved that idea.

I did meet RocketmanVt back in 2001 ?
He was kind enough to help me get a non-running Century built L1A1 up and functioning.
I haven't seen him since and when last heard from here, was down in the Southwest somewhere in.... school ?

SPEEDGUNNER
October 18, 2012, 19:07
This is a great thread, aside from some of the unrelated bickering...glad to see sgoodroe came back. Couple of things, and these may be from your era...

1. It was my understanding that the FAL's were purchased by the pound, not the unit, and they came in stacked on pallets like cordwood. Mostly Inch pattern, but amongst them there were full auto and matched guns both metric and Inch. Many of the nice ones were culled, and sold individually, and the full-auto guns went out as Dealer Samples to Class III guys.

2. The early batch of Mosin Nagant PU snipers were real sniper rifles, with matched scope and mount, as they sold out (more quickly than imagined) Century quickly went to work manufacturing original snipers. The early "CAI St Albans VT" marked rifles are true WWII era snipers and were not messed with after importation.

Truth or Fiction?

sgoodroe
October 19, 2012, 11:27
glad to see there's still intrest in this thread! and im glad to be back! lets see if i can answer all the questions in 1 post......

made in canada FAL's were assembled in montreal at there plant up there, it closed about the same time i started with century in '96...hence the need for a night shift (and me).

rocketmanvt....probobly the best friend i'll ever had, but he moved to the southwest a while back and i havent heard from him in a year or so.

it was my understanding.....for right or wrong that the FALs were all purchased by the "lot"..rifles, parts, ammo, tools, ext....all on pallets in shipping containers...shipped by the pound, but purchased by the "lot". as far as the sniper rifles...as far as i know most if not all, were the real deal, genuine sniper rifles

Bullet
October 19, 2012, 23:15
I loved the great prices of a ammo during the monthly sales years ago. How many ups trucks were filled daily?

sgoodroe
October 20, 2012, 13:34
no idea how many truck loads went out a day.....all I know is there was a constant flow out the door, all day every day!

garyd1961
October 20, 2012, 17:12
I have an R1A1 rifle with an Imbel receiver and built with Aussie parts. Why was R1A1 on so many different receivers and rifles, some on inch rifles and some on metric rifles?

DC
October 22, 2012, 09:24
who turned the muzzle threads off of the SARs? Century or the Romanians?

sgoodroe
October 22, 2012, 11:22
I have an R1A1 rifle with an Imbel receiver and built with Aussie parts. Why was R1A1 on so many different receivers and rifles, some on inch rifles and some on metric rifles?

for this question, there realy is no "good" answer. the R1A1's were built at a time of change in the sourcing of recievers, from Imbel, to Federal. If I remember right, all of the inch pattern L1A1's were supposed to be built with Imbel recievers....the metric pattern R1A1's were all supposed to have Federals. But, as usealy happens the number of useable kits exceeded the number of matching recievers, so we had to use what we had on had....regaurdless of markings

sgoodroe
October 22, 2012, 11:24
who turned the muzzle threads off of the SARs? Century or the Romanians?

the romanians...at the time this was a requirement for importation. the barrled recievers were totaly unaltered by Century....only final assembly was done by us.

sgoodroe
October 22, 2012, 11:29
Good to see you back sgoodroe.
Are you still here in Kali North, or have you migrated elsewhere, anywhere, to seek your fortune ?

Im still in VT, living in the same county I've always lived in...just alot farther from Century then I used to be. I actualy no longer work in the gun business though. I made the decition that the political climate is WAY too unstable post 9-11 to trust the gun business for a regular pay check. I've gone back to wrenching on cars for a living, but I still build guns though, but now just for me, and just for the pure enjoyment of it

Surly
October 28, 2012, 14:08
The thing I've found the most surprising in this thread is the general consensus of how many here find gunplumber to be an arrogant prick. :rofl:

What was the biggest argument you ever had with the higher ups regarding sending something out the door that was a piece of shit? Thanks for the insight you have given regarding Century.

JasonB
October 28, 2012, 16:41
I could tell you who's bright idea that was, but it probobly wouldn't make you feel better about it. It wasn't offical policy to peen the barrels to correct timing, and the practice had stopped by the time I took over the night shift. But, what happened ocationaly, was a few individuals on the crew who were too lazy to walk the 10 feet from the breaching fixture to the parts shelf to pick out the proper size breaching washers. thier solution was to use what ever they had on hand and peen the barrels to make up the difference. not company policy, but the suporvisors that alowed in to happen (in my opinion) should have been shot. its exactly that kind of sloppy work that earned CIA the reputation that they have.

They didn't always peen them to time them. Apparently some form of adhesive also got used based on one I had that would hand time to somewhere around 1 or 2 o'clock once what ever it was holding the barrel in place finally gave it up.

gunplumber
October 28, 2012, 20:19
The thing I've found the most surprising in this thread is the general consensus of how many here find gunplumber to be an arrogant prick. :rofl:

However, as always, I am RIGHT!

Truth can be annoying, inconvenient, or downright offensive, but it remains the truth. As always, I'm happy to shove it in the faces of those who wish it were otherwise. It amuses me to watch them sputter.

sgoodroe
October 29, 2012, 11:08
What was the biggest argument you ever had with the higher ups regarding sending something out the door that was a piece of shit? Thanks for the insight you have given regarding Century.

i would have to say the MAS49-56 .308 convertion is the one that realy sticks out in my mind....ill concived, pourly exictuted....led by a self serving glory hound with no real gunsmithing experience......it just should have never happened

sgoodroe
October 29, 2012, 11:10
They didn't always peen them to time them. Apparently some form of adhesive also got used based on one I had that would hand time to somewhere around 1 or 2 o'clock once what ever it was holding the barrel in place finally gave it up.

adhesive?????????????? like loctite? wow!:uhoh: ummmmm i have no clue what happened there, but i realy hope the culprite was taken out behind the plant and shot

Bullet
October 29, 2012, 21:48
Dp you have any pictures of the place where the guns were assembled and can you post them?

Potshot
October 30, 2012, 02:46
I got it!

heehee

http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/60/6041/B3PB100Z/posters/pathan-small-arms-factory-where-pakistani-is-working.jpg

sgoodroe
October 30, 2012, 13:01
no pics, i suppose i could take a drive to the new plant and snap a pic LOL

iron-eyes
October 30, 2012, 21:49
Great thread. Thanks to sgoodroe for taking the time to provide some insight on the mysterious CAI.

dirtyrice
October 31, 2012, 02:42
What do you know about the "grey area" l1a1s that were sold to leos. They had original brit, aussie and indian receivers. These had st albans markings on the barrel I believe.

sgoodroe
October 31, 2012, 11:15
What do you know about the "grey area" l1a1s that were sold to leos. They had original brit, aussie and indian receivers. These had st albans markings on the barrel I believe.

well, im not sure what you mean by grey area, but yes L1A1's were built in st.albans while I was there. But by the time I started all were built with Imbel recievers. So I'm assuming that the origanl brit, aussy and indian stuff was built long before I was hired. Sorry I wont be much help on that one.

bykerhd
October 31, 2012, 15:55
I'm a bit rusty on the "gray area" L1A1s, but I think they were brought down from Canada as unaltered rifles with ALL original parts.
Including sear cut receivers.

Purchased by law enforcement officers through their departments, but then sold off by them in to the commercial market.
Probably without ever knowing there could be any legal questions involved.

gunplumber
October 31, 2012, 16:19
I'm a bit rusty on the "gray area" L1A1s, but I think they were brought down from Canada as unaltered rifles with ALL original parts.
Including sear cut receivers.

Purchased by law enforcement officers through their departments, but then sold off by them in to the commercial market.
Probably without ever knowing there could be any legal questions involved.

purchased by individual officers. Which they could not do if they were NFA. They were LE restricted because they were exempted from the import ban. Individual officers have no NFA exemption. Were they purchased by departments and ISSUED to officers, who could never actually own them, then they would be illegal to have subsequent sales.

JasonB
October 31, 2012, 20:30
adhesive?????????????? like loctite? wow!:uhoh: ummmmm i have no clue what happened there, but i realy hope the culprite was taken out behind the plant and shot

Loctite or something? Lasted a couple of years then all of a sudden the groups shifted one night. Adjusted the windage I thought, then more shift. While puzzling over it I noticed what seemed like a lot of forearm play...then it became clear what was happening and why.

Out of curiosity, why were the L1A1 thumbholes designed in such a way that required so many parts to be hacked on with each rifle built instead of designing the stock mold one time? Seems it would have been more efficient in terms of time?

sgoodroe
November 02, 2012, 11:18
Loctite or something? Lasted a couple of years then all of a sudden the groups shifted one night. Adjusted the windage I thought, then more shift. While puzzling over it I noticed what seemed like a lot of forearm play...then it became clear what was happening and why.

Out of curiosity, why were the L1A1 thumbholes designed in such a way that required so many parts to be hacked on with each rifle built instead of designing the stock mold one time? Seems it would have been more efficient in terms of time?

the thumbhole stock deffinetly could have and should have been done much better. that was why later production models reverted back to pistol grip. no idea why they were made the way they were, but I suspect the problem stem from the fact that they were designed to fit multiple models and not just the L1A1

partisan50
November 02, 2012, 11:39
yupper, we didn't touch the sights or gas blocks. at first we thought it was shipping damage, but when we started rejecting 1 out of 50 for the problem, we finally tracked it down to an OEM issue and it was corrected, but how many made it out the door before it was caught? no way of knowing now.......

Yeah I have a SAR1 (with the crooked sights), IIRC I bought it in 2000, plus the wood don't match, but I got it at a great price. Unfortunately, I did not know about the crooked sights when I bought it. My buddy laughed at the crooked sights, when we shot it the hits were way off. I got pissed and kinda straightened it in a vise. It's my beater AK.

I did buy one of those thumb hole stocked L1A1s in the late '90s, Imbel receiver, and it worked fine. I also bought one of those STG58s and that worked great too. I ended up selling both to a couple of friends and both rifles continued to function fine.

Some years back I bought a Romanian M44, all numbers match for like $55, I was not impressed with the dot matrix serial number but I could not beat the price. It shoots great too.

I have a friend that bought one of those cast receivers G3s and that thing is horrible! Not only does it jam, but it binds when it gets hot. He's stuck with it since nobody wants to buy it from him. LOL

Surly
November 02, 2012, 21:30
However, as always, I am RIGHT!

And a broken clock is right twice a day. :beer:

TheRussian
November 10, 2012, 09:07
I am not affiliated with Century in any way at all.
I have have bought about 13-14 CAI rifles.
Every one of them has worked so far and worked quite well.
Hundreds of rounds through each and in some, thousands of rounds without a hitch.
So far only about 250 through my Century G1 FAL kit, its all metric and works flawlessly.
I do not get emotionally attached to a brand, but in today's economy I certainly do factor price into my purchasing decisions, and so far I guess I have gotten lucky with Century arms products, come to think of it I have quite a few friends that do as well and they have had equally good luck.
So I guess they do and can make acceptable weapons, in addition to some bad ones.
I am sure like any large volume company mistakes get made, the question I guess, is how do they handle when they make a mistake?
Luckily I haven't had the need to find out I guess.

Just my 2 cents, and my personal experience

Surly
November 10, 2012, 13:07
If everything we ever purchased worked flawlessly, there would be no need for a gunsmithing section on this site. With that in mind, I like getting good deals on used shit that doesn't work that I make work again.

gunplumber
November 10, 2012, 14:54
I did buy a CAI FAL. It didn't work anyway and wasn't worth fixing, but it made a good cutaway gun for my training classes.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/falcutaway-71.jpg

4x401
November 10, 2012, 15:02
I did buy a CAI FAL. It didn't work anyway and wasn't worth fixing, but it made a good cutaway gun for my training classes.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/falcutaway-71.jpg

That is SWEET Mark!:bow:

dirtyrice
November 10, 2012, 17:25
I have to ask. What machines did you use to cut that thing up so nicely? Did you refinish it and then apply the red paint? What did you use to apply the red. Looks very good.

TheRussian
November 10, 2012, 17:30
That is SWEET Mark!:bow:


x2 that is very cool!!

gunplumber
November 10, 2012, 18:29
I have to ask. What machines did you use to cut that thing up so nicely? Did you refinish it and then apply the red paint? What did you use to apply the red. Looks very good.

As it was a Century, all I needed was a roofing hammer and a Dremel tool.

.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Bridgeport Clone (Sharp) and 1/4" carbide end mills.

root
November 11, 2012, 14:09
I did buy a CAI FAL. It didn't work anyway and wasn't worth fixing, but it made a good cutaway gun for my training classes.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/falcutaway-71.jpg

That's by far the best contribution you have made to this entire thread.
Nice seeing that.

I have only owned one CAI gun it was the L1A1 that partisan 50 speeks about I bought it off of him in 2000 and sold it in 04 when I bought a house.

It ran 100% with my reloads

I have been around a big heap of CAI stuff. all worked accept the G3 clone Partisan 50 speaks about.

The owner is a mutual friend of ours. He bought it in 1998 @ the Marshalls Creek gun show here in pa.

Here is my question to you sgoodroe........

Gun ran fine for about 3 months 100%

Then typical CAI FAIL.

The problem with the gun is it will run about a mag and a 1/2 then it has FTF, FTE, binds up, if you can get a round in it it will go bang but that's the trick. Getting a round in or out of the chamber.

Gun does not do this when cold. only after it's heated up. And even in slow fire gun just needs to get hot.

This is a cast receiver Aluminum I think.
This should have been assembled around the time you where there.

What causes this? is it a warped receiver? Or what and what can be done to fix it if anything?

Thanks for the insight to century......

gunplumber
November 11, 2012, 14:24
That's by far the best contribution you have made to this entire thread.

GFY. I'm not here to massage your fragile ego. The Emperor is naked, and has been from the start.

root
November 11, 2012, 14:40
I give you a compliment and still you bash??

Did they change your meds? If not I suggest they do....

Maybe see a shrink too and see if you are mentally fit to own guns ( and use scissors )

Anyway back on topic
any insight to the G3's that were in production around 1997 1998?

Thanks

gunplumber
November 11, 2012, 14:54
I give you a compliment and still you bash??



"That's by far the best contribution you have made to this entire thread."

Pretend it is a compliment and not a thinly veiled insult.

"No one will notice me sticking him, but they will certainly notice when he clobbers me".

You are not as ugly today than you were yesterday. Hey, it's a compliment.

root
November 11, 2012, 15:00
Thanks, I showered today...

And here is to arguing on the internet.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q169/armalite_ar50/arguing-on-the-internet.jpg

gunplumber
November 11, 2012, 15:06
Thanks, I showered today...

And here is to arguing on the internet.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q169/armalite_ar50/arguing-on-the-internet.jpg

Now you make fun of handicapped people? You really show your character.

def90
November 11, 2012, 15:11
This is a cast receiver Aluminum I think..

Umm, it would have blown up on you by now if it was aluminum. :)

My Aussie behaved the way you are describing after it was first built.. Problem seemed to increase as it got hotter. Turned out to be gas leaks and a very tight chamber (was a brand new SLR5000 barrel). Fixed the gas leaks, polished the chamber and close to 2k rounds later I haven't had a problem since.

Basically weak gas and tight clearances would cause malfunctions when it was hot.

root
November 11, 2012, 15:33
Thanks Def90

I'll have to revisit his gun if I can talk him into buying parts.

Your problem is just how his gun acts...

Maybe SS then 'not my gun ( I won't own a H&K system due to the fluting) just ruins the brass for reloading. Although they are nice guns.
And ya I know the brass can still be worked I just don't care to...

Ya GP I make fun of everything and everyone.. NOTHING is sacred.
Besides it's all in good fun.
Notice I'm more of a lurker here since 2002? because there are so many more here that have forgotten more about the FAL then I will ever know.

partisan50
November 11, 2012, 18:55
"That's by far the best contribution you have made to this entire thread."

Pretend it is a compliment and not a thinly veiled insult..


gunplumber, What he means is that you did an excellent job making that display rifle, it probably took you a while too, and it's a better quality job that what Century was making and that's what this thread was about.

Surly
November 11, 2012, 19:42
Now you make fun of handicapped people? You really show your character.

He wasn't making fun of you. :devil: